Champions League 2011/12

The thing is that Barca dominate every match because of the way they choose to play. They will always have more passes, more possession and more shots. That doesn't, however, always mean they deserve to win, or created the best chances.

I thought the first half was extremely even in terms of actual good goal scoring chances. Which is why seeing Milan go in at half time behind on that type of call is so grating.

I'm not anti-Barcelona, I'm anti-play acting, hand waving, ref-yelling self entitled little sh*ts playing football. And, sadly, Barca has become the poster boy of both the best and worst parts of the game over the past few years.

I wonder if a new coach would improve that side of their game. Despite Pep always coming across well off the pitch, he is still the man who clearly developed and encourages Alves, Busquets, Macherano et al to behave as they do.
 
1. If you believe there is a conspiracy pro-Barca, why would you even watch? If a sane person knew there was a conspiracy, they'd stop even paying attention to the sport, much less caring.

2. While Barca has had many calls their way, people forget all the ones against them. The bad red card against Abidal at the Stamford Bridge, in the first leg there was also a clear penalty on Henry and it was not called. The following year against Inter both Milito's goals were offside and they wrongly disallowed a goal to Bojan. Last year they wrongly disallowed a Messi goal at the Emirates.

3. All the teams that have ever won have had calls in their favor. Also, lets use basic logic here. When a team has 50% possession there are say 5 fouls, would it not be logical that a team with more possession would have more fouls in their favor, would'nt it also be logical that a team that might only commit one or zero mistakes a game, might have those chances of mistake go up and when you have a team that attacks you more often than the rest of the normal teams? Hence why you see Barca protesting more often, and people get annoyed, they are just getting more hits because they have more of the ball, hence they will receive more fouls and you will see them complaining more often, even though proportionally they do it just as much about anyone else.

The ref made two correct calls, and every shirt pull should be called. At first there might be more penalties, but then defenders will have to learn to defend with out dirty tricks to prevent for shirt pulling to be called.

There is no such things a soft or harsh penalty, it either was a foul or it wasn't, and if it was in the box you get a shot from the Penalty spot. Rules are rules, just because crappy refs don't enforce them, it doesn't mean that when a good ref calls them they are wrong.
 
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fanolato said:
There is no such things a soft or harsh penalty, it either was a foul or it wasn't, and if it was in the box you get a shot from the Penalty spot. Rules are rules, just because crappy refs don't enforce them, it doesn't mean that when a good ref calls them they are wrong.
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By your logic every single referee in every single match in the world this weekend was a poor referee, because that type of shirt pulling happened in each match, and none of them resulted in penalties.

It's an extreme extrapolation, but if you can't see why people are annoyed then you're being disingenuous imo.
 
I do think pretty much all reffing is sh!t. Because of that and many other things that are in the rules and they decide to interpret when it's exactly clear. Shirt pulling should always be a foul, as should tripping or studs up challenges.

I am personally more annoyed about dirty play than ref crowding.

Seedorf: The ref might have made a mistake, but we did not lose because of that

Class.

Ibrahimovic: I know understand why Mourinho gets the way he does at the Camp Nou.

Because eye gouging is the appropriate way to act in any circumstance.
 
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You're missing the rest of Ibra's quote... he follows on to say we can't blame the loss on that incident and that Barca obviously played better. He said he doesn't agree with Mou, but he understands him, and that Barca are still the best in the world.

Seedorf went on to say he asked the ref why there was a penalty when the ball wasn't in play yet, and the ref just handed him a yellow.
 
Milanista said:
You're missing the rest of Ibra's quote... he follows on to say we can't blame the loss on that incident and that Barca obviously played better.

Seedorf went on to say he asked the ref why there was a penalty when the ball wasn't in play yet, and the ref just handed him a yellow.
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I got it from tweeter. Thanks for the heads up anyways. Still saying eye gouging is at all justifiable reeks of idiocy, not that I ever regarded Ibra as intelligent.
 
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I think to be fair a lot people are jumping on Barcelona far too easily, I know it gets boring when the same teams constantly wins but they are a great side so when a small call (which I think did go in their favour) goes for them everyone goes crazy, IMO as Barcelona could have had a penalty in Italy.

I think Milan played very well over the two legs but I do think Barcelona were the better side and would have won regardless of that call.
 
I don't think many people are denying that, but the fact that the goal that took them in front happened in that way is unlucky, for both Milan and for Barca. IMO in a way it tainted the 3rd goal.
 
CUCU, STOP CRYING

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Milanista said:
You're missing the rest of Ibra's quote... he follows on to say we can't blame the loss on that incident and that Barca obviously played better. He said he doesn't agree with Mou, but he understands him, and that Barca are still the best in the world.

Seedorf went on to say he asked the ref why there was a penalty when the ball wasn't in play yet, and the ref just handed him a yellow.
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But the ball was clearly IN PLAY, the Corner kick was shot and the ref whistled when the ball was already towards the other side of the pitch.

But anyway, Seedorf is class, one of the most underrated stars. I never tire of watching him play, he's a master and taught our boys some lessons at San Siro.
 
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I too think Ibra was key to Milan and had quite a good match, only he didnt have any chance. e was key in the goal, though.

By the way, Milanista, the match was even because the result was even, but during the first half Barcelona had 12 shots on goal, while Milan had only one. I think Barcelona deserved the win largely before and after the penalty. Sure that Milan had one or two dangerous crosses in the first half, but a lot of people is underestimating everything Barceona did. 21 shots overall in the game agains Milan, and only 3 shots against.

If sny other team had displayed this numbers against Milan, they would be getting praise everywhere. It was NOT an even match, though at times Milan played very well and had very good moments in which could seem to pose a threat. But the best team won, and deservedly, and with 21 shots to 3 you cant just justify it with a single decisn by the ref.
 
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I think Bayern will beat Barca if they meet in the final, and to be honest I think they will do it with a degree of comfort. I think both Inter and Milan have shown a blueprint for how to eliminate Barca over the last few seasons. The inexperience of some of Milan's squad players (Antonini for the first PK tonight cost them) cost them. But they showed that you can play a numbers game in defence and even if you are missing key players (Van Bommel and Thiago Silva) you can blunt their attack. If Heynckes can organise the central defence well enough with Robben and Ribery out wide and big in form target man like Gomez they can create chances against a Barca team that is very weak from crosses. That would be my one critisim of Milan, they didn't really get quick balls into the box and try and feed Ibrahimovic in the air. I know it's not really their game (or even Ibrahimovic's style) but he had the beating of Barca in the air over the two legs.
 
Mehtab said:
I hope Chelsea won't have to face the same referee problem like they did on 2008 against Barca. I wouldn't argue if we lose it fairly.
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I hope Barcelona won't have to face the same referee problem like they did on 2005 against Chelsea. I wouldn't argue if we lose it fairly.
 
drekkard :SMUG: 3 in one week, in the words of SAF it evens` itself out in the end :LOL:


poor Milan they must of felt hard done by the 2nd pen given. I hear ppl calling it UEFAlona :LMAO:
 
gomito#10 said:
So does this have anything to do with barca getting such poor treatment domestically?
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It was a joke really , but Barça could of had 2 pens at San Siro arguably. Most of the fans had felt upset w/ the lack of pens not given in every competition We can assume.
 
Lots of bullshit in this thread.
The fact that Barcelona gets advantaged by UEFA and the refs is preposterous. Totally ridiculous.
Am i a Barcelona fan? I like to watch their football, but i'm not a fan. I always tend to favour the underdog, so i seldom support Barcelona. But as a football fan, i have to say they are by far the best i've ever seen...they are a joy to watch and with Messi they have one of the best and most fair players i've ever seen (people who complain about Busquets tend to forget Messi).

I was impressed with Milan in the first match, but i was underwhelmed by them in this match.

Was this a good ref? I've seen much better, but i can't see nothing wrong with both penalties. The Masscherano-Zlatan thing was definitely not a penalty Stef, not at all...Zlatan searches contact with Masscherano. The Barcelona penalty in Milan wasn't a penalty IMO, so the ref was right...but if all the refs favour Barcelona why wasn't that one given...as much as yesterday's second could not have been given, the one in the first leg could have been given. Both were 50/50 but in both cases the ref took the right decision.

Why was this not the best ref i've ever seen? Because Ambrosini ended the match, he could have got 7 yellow cards. Robinho (what a stupid idiot he is) should have got a red when he got the yellow (he clearly wanted to hurt Iniesta out of frustration). Other Milan players (like Seedorf) should not have got a yellow, and Masscherano should have got a yellow much earlier and might have been in danger to have a red card...IMO he is not good enough for Barcelona.

Barcelona haters can say what they want, but in the end it is simple, yesterday Milan scored a good goal, but besides that they were simply not good enough to eliminate Barcelona. The Milan i have seen the last years in the CL is a clever counter team, but when they have to make the game, they fail miserably.

I think Milan's coach will be fairly disappointed because over the two legs this was the weakest Barcelona of the current crop of players that i have seen. It's clear that Barcelona need to buy a decent back-up LB and CB. Puyol was sorely missed as a central defender and was not good enough as LB. This team is very vulnerable defensively, yet Milan looked a toothless predator.

All in all people should stop complaining about the ref and about UEFA, IMO this was a very logical win for a weakened Barcelona against a poor opponent (who was even more weakened). Out of the mountain came a mouse (this is bad English i think).

Oh and Ronaldinho: do your club a favour and try to behave like an adult. You are irritating most people here. If you want to discuss football, use arguments and not slaganesque and irritating fan talk.
 
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gerd said:
Lots of bullshit in this thread.
The fact that Barcelona gets advantaged by UEFA and the refs is preposterous. Totally ridiculous.
Am i a Barcelona fan? I like to watch their football, but i'm not a fan. I always tend to favour the underdog, so i seldom support Barcelona. But as a football fan, i have to say they are by far the best i've ever seen...they are a joy to watch and with Messi they have one of the best and most fair players i've ever seen (people who complain about Busquets tend to forget Messi).

I was impressed with Milan in the first match, but i was underwhelmed by them in this match.

Was this a good ref? I've seen much better, but i can't see nothing wrong with both penalties. The Masscherano-Zlatan thing was definitely not a penalty Stef, not at all...Zlatan searches contact with Masscherano. The Barcelona penalty in Milan wasn't a penalty IMO, so the ref was right...but if all the refs favour Barcelona why wasn't that one given...as much as yesterday's second could not have been given, the one in the first leg could have been given. Both were 50/50 but in both cases the ref took the right decision.

Why was this not the best ref i've ever seen? Because Ambrosini ended the match, he could have got 7 yellow cards. Robinho (what a stupid idiot he is) should have got a red when he got the yellow (he clearly wanted to hurt Iniesta out of frustration). Other Milan players (like Seedorf) should not have got a yellow, and Masscherano should have got a yellow much earlier and might have been in danger to have a red card...IMO he is not good enough for Barcelona.

Barcelona haters can say what they want, but in the end it is simple, yesterday Milan scored a good goal, but besides that they were simply not good enough to eliminate Barcelona. The Milan i have seen the last years in the CL is a clever counter team, but when they have to make the game, they fail miserably.

I think Milan's coach will be fairly disappointed because over the two legs this was the weakest Barcelona of the current crop of players that i have seen. It's clear that Barcelona need to buy a decent back-up LB and CB. Puyol was sorely missed as a central defender and was not good enough as LB. This team is very vulnerable defensively, yet Milan looked a toothless predator.
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Jordi Alba is coming, we just need to hang on till summer transfer window. About yesterday game - it's pretty obvious Milan didn't have any chance to win the game, first game should really ended at least 1:0 to Barcelona. I'm not convinced Barcelona defence is that bad, but for sure its becoming weaker, David Villa will come back for next season so Barcelona dosen't really need anyone in attack, Guardiola will most likely spend all money on defenders.

Congratulations to Messi, 14 goals! One more for ABSOLUTE record.. what a player.. amazing guy!
 
i think we talked about the ref way too much... and without good cause also. it's obvious there's not a secret masterplan to help barça advance in the competition at uefa headquarters. the mere idea is ridiculous, but anyway, even if we were to consider the possibility, the 1st leg of this double matchup should be enough to erase our doubts. barça were denied clear penalty in milano (the abbiati-sanchez contact) and if there were some sort of a major european conspiracy to help barça, the game in milan would have ended 0-1 (wich would have made things much easier for the blaugranas). and that was about the crazy conspiration theories. now onto the penalty itself.

8 times out ot 10 that kind of contact doesn't get u a penalty. so the obvious conclusion would be: either that penalty should have not been given or we should expect more consistancy in theese sort of situation. at first glance, this argument might make perfect sense... but i don't agree with such conclusion.
the fact that most of the times such fouls don't lead to a penalty (wich is a good thing btw) doesn't make it fair to pull your opponent's shirt inside the box. the book of rules says that's a penalty... logic says that's a penalty... and if a player of yours misses a scoring chance because one of his opponents was pulling his shirt inside the box, u're gonna scream for a penalty, so there's really little margin for discussion here.

at this point some might say "okay, but at least give me some consistancy and make the same call every time a shirt gets pulled inside the box!".
but such an argument is a lot less logic than it might sound. first of, most of the times this kind of contacts don't even get noticed by the ref (it would be impossible for the ref to spot in real time every unusual movement of the players' shirts)...... and, more importantly, even if that would be possible, even if the refs were infallible gods who could spot every shirt pulled at every free kick or corner, consistancy isn't really something u would want in this situation. because we're all well aware that in theese cases "consistancy" would lead to 5, 6 penalties given for every single match. that means that every single game would be conpletely ruined, every competition would be compromised, the league table results would lose whatever meaning they have and the football played on the pitch aswell as the tactical strategies picked by the coaches would become absolutely irrelevant. consistancy would have tragic consequences for football (in this specific case).

so what you're left with? you're left with exactly what happened on the pitch. every once in a while the ref notices a shirt pulled and makes his call. and u absolutely hate it when it happens to your team, because u think this is extremely unfair....... but when u think about it, as horrible as it is, this still is a less unfair solution than the other 2 possible options (never calling for a penalty in this situations or always having a penalty in this situations).

so instead of being mad at the ref for making such a call, we should be mad at nesta for putting the ref in the position to make that call.
there was some sort of a pick & roll by barça there. puyol sets a pick on nesta (and yes, as ryan said, that should be a foul against barça, but it's extremely hard to spot it from the ref in real time)... teams often use this expedient to loosen up the man marking on set pieces... and when this happens, the defender has no other option than let go of the shirt, because the "pick" will make the "shirt pulling action" much easier to spot by the ref.
that was a mistake by nesta. after the match he said he did it anyway, because he thought the ref would have never given a second penalty for such a silly foul. now i can understand his logic (infact i agree with him, and i would have not given a second penalty like that), but still that's what eventually happened and u can't even blame the ref, because he followed the rules.

bottom line, it was an unappropriate call, but not a wrong one. it was unappropriate coz that was a champions league quarter final and u don't give a second penalty that easily. let it slide, let the match follow its flow and don't try and be a hero, making it all about your calls. ideally a ref should make himself invisible, leaving a mark as little as possible on the match and interfereing with the flow of the game only when that is absolutely unevitable. that clearely didn't happen here.
but, having said that, as unappropriate as that call was, it still wasn't a mistake by the ref, as he simply applied the rules. had he also applied a bit of common sense, we would have had a chance to see a much better football game.....but still that's not enough to blame the ref for the result, as barça fans have also reasons to complain about the way the ref handled some situations in the first leg.

the truth is milan didn't lose this game because of the ref. they lost it because mexes was absolutey atrocious (terrible performance, every time he touched the ball he did something stupid... he actually played a key role in every barça goal) and because both ibra and robinho made exactly the same movements for the entire match, making it extremely easy for barça's defensive line to handle them. whenever ibra was attacking the depth and trying to push the defensive line deeper, robinho should have tracked back to get rid of the marking (and more importantly, to force barça's defensive line to make a choice). whenever ibra was tracking back to find some space, robinho should have pushed forward, to attack the depth and (again) to force barça's defensive line to choose who to follow between the 2. robinho never did any of this. instead he stupidly followed ibra like a shadow, making himself completely useless.
barça basically had 2 players more on the pitch yesterday: robinho and mexes. and as much as i respect allegri (who's growing to become a fantastic coach), i just can't understand why on earth he picked robinho instead of el sharawi for this game. it just goes beyond my understanding.
 
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In short, teams with the most possession inevitably sometimes gets some arguably lucky breaks OR there's a conspiracy going on and we should all get out our tin foil hats.

You decide.


...where's my freakin' hat?
 
Fantastic post Ben...

What i did not say in my previous post is that as a neutral i was not happy that the ref gave that second penalty and i also think that Barcelona's third goal was a litle bit a lucky on. Yes the way Iniesta scored was very well done, but the ball came to him by an unlucky ricochet...so all in all as a neutral IMO could win this match rather easy...i would have preferred to see them win otherwise. But they fully deserved it, i really don't understand the negativity towards Barcelona on this forum.

I also agree with you on Mexès, he played a bad match and at the end he was also irritating, he didn't act very intelligent.

As for Robinho...he's extremely talented, but as a coach he would not have him anyway near my sqaud...
 
good post gerd & lo zio ,

The game changed a bit after the 2nd penalty. When it was 1-1 as a neutral it was very lively. I don`t think Milan defended bad at all I think Fabregas added more to the passing game at one point Milan had to deal with " Inesta-Xavi-Fabregas-Messi " :LOL: they were immense they did things not even FIFA12 could do . I even found Barça to be a bit disrespectful towards the end. Messi is a world beater ,but was that necessary to juggle the ball inside the opponent box like that then Busquet started to do tricks . Milan has history and are a top class club. I think FCB deserve to go through w/o a doubt.
 
beachryan said:
The thing that riles me is that the incentives are clear. If you dive and act like a f*cking c*nt (the Busquets method of football) you WILL benefit. That's what annoys me.

Messi was great today, unplayable - but also fair and sporting. If I ever had the chance to play a charity match against Busquets I'd want to break his legs, and I've never hurt anyone in my life. Just because of the damage he does to the game I love.
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And I'd love to be in that match officiated by one of UEFA's refs so I could punch their teeth in :P
On a serious note now, there are all kinds of players, some of them will always be cunts. This will never change. But those guys would never have it their way if it wasn't for weak referees who will collapse under the pressure of 100 thousand home fans and players crowding him. The actual source of evil is the referees making the calls.

Much like you said, that is an incentive. It's Pavlovian conditioning stuff going down right there! If you hear the whistle most of the times you're going down rather easily, you will be doing it often.
There's a reinforcement, a reward for such behaviour indeed. Busquets will keep on diving, he will dive more than ever from now on. Why not? It's working!

That was disgusting. It seemed like a rehearsed play. Busquets shouted to the ref when his shirt was being held. Since it was a set piece, if the ref saw that when Busquets shouted he should have stopped and had that usual talk with the guys in the box. We see it almost every game, that's how normal refs deal with those fracas inside the penalty box.
On top of that Puyol was there doing everything possible to prevent Nesta being near Busquets, including fouling him too, while he watched it all unfold. Hell, Puyol was already appealing before Busquets hit the ground. Disgusting stuff.

As for the 1st penalty, what bugs me is that Messi chose the penalty. When I said it is debatable, that's because we watch him week in week out dribbling past defenders who are actively trying to hack his legs off. He seems unstoppable at times and I've seen him taking strong knocks before and not going down.
Yesterday he clearly awaited the contact and went down. Antonini tried to retrieve his legs in that sliding tackle but his knee made contact with Messi and that was it. Down he goes.
But of course that 1st call was much more difficult than the other.
 
Rentboy said:
As for the 1st penalty, what bugs me is that Messi chose the penalty. When I said it is debatable, that's because we watch him week in week out dribbling past defenders who are actively trying to hack his legs off. He seems unstoppable at times and I've seen him taking strong knocks before and not going down.
Yesterday he clearly awaited the contact and went down. Antonini tried to retrieve his legs in that sliding tackle but his knee made contact with Messi and that was it. Down he goes.
But of course that 1st call was much more difficult than the other.
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If you really think all that, you live in a different reality to everyone, including Antonini, who said the penalty was blatant. Good luck with it.
 
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