ThomasGOAL
Retired Footballer
- 15 March 2003
Dynamo Zagreb coach sacked today WINK WINK 
Champions League 2011/12
- Thread starter nikolapfc89
- Start date
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Gerd, it may be that my views were too simplistic. Like I said, I didn't watch this game nor the Ajax one so I don't have a concrete opinion on this particular matter. Just my 'general' position against conspiracy theories.
And yes you're right about a lot of shady stuff including betting scandals in countries like Croatia and Mr. Mamic himself is of course quite a controversial figure.
I've just seen the video of that little wink by the way but that doesn't mean anything. It's not even like he's smiling and why go to grab the ball to waste Lyon's time if they're supposed to lose? I didn't see the 'comforting' nature in that wink as if to say, hey guys don't worry you'll score many more. So it's definitely open to interpretations like you said.
Anyway now I'm curious to watch the game actually but yeah I don't think Mr. Platini like so many English people who have personal agendas against him and just dislike the man want to say, WANTEd to help ALL French clubs and kick poor Ajax out of the tournament and just because he's UEFA President, doesn't mean he gets to dictate the results of 2 different matches with 2 different referees and 4 sets of players. That's all I was saying and I think you agree with this part anyway.
And yes you're right about a lot of shady stuff including betting scandals in countries like Croatia and Mr. Mamic himself is of course quite a controversial figure.
I've just seen the video of that little wink by the way but that doesn't mean anything. It's not even like he's smiling and why go to grab the ball to waste Lyon's time if they're supposed to lose? I didn't see the 'comforting' nature in that wink as if to say, hey guys don't worry you'll score many more. So it's definitely open to interpretations like you said.
Anyway now I'm curious to watch the game actually but yeah I don't think Mr. Platini like so many English people who have personal agendas against him and just dislike the man want to say, WANTEd to help ALL French clubs and kick poor Ajax out of the tournament and just because he's UEFA President, doesn't mean he gets to dictate the results of 2 different matches with 2 different referees and 4 sets of players. That's all I was saying and I think you agree with this part anyway.
elensar77
11 Abdul Kader Keita
Platini worked so good. Ajax 2 goals and Zagrep red card.
We told, we told.
We will fight France for Euro 2016 but we forget Platini.
We told, we told.
We will fight France for Euro 2016 but we forget Platini.
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
So what, Dinamo didn't deserve a red card? Their players can do no wrong? It's Jerko Leko we're talking about anyway! I didn't see this match but this guy's TOO aggressive and often does dangerous challenges/tackles. I wouldn't be surprised if this was yet another DESERVED red-card for the man some call 'The Butcher'!
Like I said, people just LOVE conspiracy theories.
Especially Persians (People from my country), Turks, Greeks, Armenians and people from Balkan region. It's almost like part of the national culture! That feeling of injustice and being hard done. Thankfully the Dutch themselves aren't generally like that though in this case, they have reasons to be aggrieved.
Like I said, people just LOVE conspiracy theories.
Especially Persians (People from my country), Turks, Greeks, Armenians and people from Balkan region. It's almost like part of the national culture! That feeling of injustice and being hard done. Thankfully the Dutch themselves aren't generally like that though in this case, they have reasons to be aggrieved.
Damjan
World Cup Winner
- 16 July 2011
- Arsenal|Juventus|ASSE
ThomasGOAL
Retired Footballer
- 15 March 2003
Like says Roland Courbis on RMC (French radio)
"Zagreb qui a zero point, qui prend trois quatre buts contre tout le monde, ils peuvent pas s'en prendre sept en jouant a dix contre une équipe qui a besoin de marquer six buts"
google translate :
"Zagreb has zero point, which takes three four goals against anyone, they can not go after seven to ten playing against a team that needs to score six goals"
"Zagreb qui a zero point, qui prend trois quatre buts contre tout le monde, ils peuvent pas s'en prendre sept en jouant a dix contre une équipe qui a besoin de marquer six buts"
google translate :
"Zagreb has zero point, which takes three four goals against anyone, they can not go after seven to ten playing against a team that needs to score six goals"
~turinski!
Shot Technique RIP
tobi
"Clear Eyes Full Hearts Can't Lose."
- 5 August 2005
- Spurs, Suns and Cowboys
Apparently that picture is old.
gerd
Retired Footballer
PLF: yes i agree with you...i didn't meant to offend you and if i did then i'm really sorry.
Thomas: i don't agree with mr Courbis...there is something fishy about this match.
But no: it has absolutely nothing to do with Platini or with the fact that Lyon is a French club.
Thomas: i don't agree with mr Courbis...there is something fishy about this match.
But no: it has absolutely nothing to do with Platini or with the fact that Lyon is a French club.
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Gerd, you didn't offend me at all. I was just saying that actually most Persians (I'm Persian) are also big on controversies and things like that, much like Bosnians, Croatians, Albanians, Greeks, Turks etc. I'm just not one of them.
Anyway you watched the match and indeed there seems to be something a bit suspicious so I take your word for it. Unfortunately the fact that Dinamo had nothing to play for (Even a victory would be useless other than pride in front of passionate home fans) doesn't help the case and the suspicious going away which is understandable.
Who made a deal with whom though? Aulas wire-transferred $5M Euros to Mamic's Swiss account?
Possible...
Anyway you watched the match and indeed there seems to be something a bit suspicious so I take your word for it. Unfortunately the fact that Dinamo had nothing to play for (Even a victory would be useless other than pride in front of passionate home fans) doesn't help the case and the suspicious going away which is understandable.
Who made a deal with whom though? Aulas wire-transferred $5M Euros to Mamic's Swiss account?
Possible...
ZaGabria
ZG u srcu
- 20 August 2006
No conspiracies, match fixing etc there.. We're just that bad.
In a situation where we're playing with only one native defender in a team, with 10 men since 28.minute and after being almost competitive in a first half and eventually scoring the leading goal, we get that unlucky equalizer,no wonder those unexperienced kids just broke down.
Situation from 2 years ago when Dinamo was in a similar situation, and Ajax lost 3:0 at home to Anderlecht what caused Dinamo to be knocked out of Europa league didn't really help Dinamo players giving their best to help our Dutch friends..
In a situation where we're playing with only one native defender in a team, with 10 men since 28.minute and after being almost competitive in a first half and eventually scoring the leading goal, we get that unlucky equalizer,no wonder those unexperienced kids just broke down.
Situation from 2 years ago when Dinamo was in a similar situation, and Ajax lost 3:0 at home to Anderlecht what caused Dinamo to be knocked out of Europa league didn't really help Dinamo players giving their best to help our Dutch friends..
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Good to hear from a real Dinamo Zagreb fan on his thoughts. Tell us more and I'm sorry for the loss. It was a truly embarrassing result for such a historic club! 
Some interesting articles I just read about this matter.
First one is about Jurcic losing his job after a dismal CL campaign! Let's not forget as bad as this result was, this is a team that lost ALL 6 matches conceding a total of 22 goals while scoring only 3! CL's poorest team EVER?! So they were CL's biggest whooping boys this year and were on the end of similarly embarrassing scorelines all campaign long. This last one just received extra media exposure because it qualified one team over another, but they got their asses whooped against all teams.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11945/7361965/Lyon-loss-costs-Jurcic-his-job
This one is about UEFA not probing further into this as they didn't see any unusual 'betting'
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11806/7362474/UEFA-rule-out-Lyon-probe
This one is about Frank de Boer the Ajax coach saying how he finds the result unusual at this high level but how it'll be hard to find evidence if there are any
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11913/7362647/De-Boer-Hard-to-point-finger
Some interesting articles I just read about this matter.
First one is about Jurcic losing his job after a dismal CL campaign! Let's not forget as bad as this result was, this is a team that lost ALL 6 matches conceding a total of 22 goals while scoring only 3! CL's poorest team EVER?! So they were CL's biggest whooping boys this year and were on the end of similarly embarrassing scorelines all campaign long. This last one just received extra media exposure because it qualified one team over another, but they got their asses whooped against all teams.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11945/7361965/Lyon-loss-costs-Jurcic-his-job
This one is about UEFA not probing further into this as they didn't see any unusual 'betting'
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11806/7362474/UEFA-rule-out-Lyon-probe
This one is about Frank de Boer the Ajax coach saying how he finds the result unusual at this high level but how it'll be hard to find evidence if there are any
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11913/7362647/De-Boer-Hard-to-point-finger
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Oh another thing by the way, this incredible result has led to Lyon qualifying to the knockout rounds for the 9th consecutive year! That's an enviable record! Don't know how many other teams have that record but surely it must be only Barca, Real, Arsenal and maybe Milan and Chelsea?
This year of course they actually needed a lot of luck to do it. The team is much weaker than previous years even if it still has some very good players. The coach is young and inexperienced as well. He's done okay so far but it'll be interesting to see who they get in next round now and how far they go. I've watched a few of their performances this year and I haven't been impressed. If they get a strong opposition, they're probably looking at being eliminated in Round of 16. Though I think they will improve in 2nd half of the season and we'll see a better OL. Let's wait and see....
EDIT:
p.s. Maybe after Real's help last night which was crucial to OL qualifying, the two teams will finally have good relationships after some really heated matches and rivalry in CL over the past few years!
This year of course they actually needed a lot of luck to do it. The team is much weaker than previous years even if it still has some very good players. The coach is young and inexperienced as well. He's done okay so far but it'll be interesting to see who they get in next round now and how far they go. I've watched a few of their performances this year and I haven't been impressed. If they get a strong opposition, they're probably looking at being eliminated in Round of 16. Though I think they will improve in 2nd half of the season and we'll see a better OL. Let's wait and see....
EDIT:
p.s. Maybe after Real's help last night which was crucial to OL qualifying, the two teams will finally have good relationships after some really heated matches and rivalry in CL over the past few years!
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ThomasGOAL
Retired Footballer
- 15 March 2003
cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
Here is the photo everyone is talking about:
http://sports.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474980874108
To be honest they were lucky to edge past Rubin Kazan in the play-offs. From the matches I've seen of them they have looked very poor and are in my opinion, by a massive margin, the weakest team left in the competition. If you ignore last night's result they drew 0-0 with Ajax each time and lost twice to Real (like Ajax), yet they ended up SEVEN goals behind Ajax after 5 matches. In their 5 matches they had only scored 2 goals (both in the home leg vs Zagreb). It's a shame Lille didnt go through instead. As even their own Lyonnais fans must prefer watching an attacking team like Lille to a drab team like Lyons who are deviod of any attacking ideas whatsoever.
http://sports.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474980874108
To be honest they were lucky to edge past Rubin Kazan in the play-offs. From the matches I've seen of them they have looked very poor and are in my opinion, by a massive margin, the weakest team left in the competition. If you ignore last night's result they drew 0-0 with Ajax each time and lost twice to Real (like Ajax), yet they ended up SEVEN goals behind Ajax after 5 matches. In their 5 matches they had only scored 2 goals (both in the home leg vs Zagreb). It's a shame Lille didnt go through instead. As even their own Lyonnais fans must prefer watching an attacking team like Lille to a drab team like Lyons who are deviod of any attacking ideas whatsoever.
#71
Champions League
- 18 May 2006
- SL Benfica
Not quite the same, but ok. Ajax lost 1:3 at home, and Dinamo couldn't beat Poli Timisoara. Anderlecht 11p, Ajax 11p, Dinamo 6p. Ajax lost the 1st place on the group, having to play against Juventus instead of Athletic Bilbao.
yea 3 years, when he play for Osijek
I'm all against conspiracy theories always. It's easy to manipulate the masses telling them "the other" is the villain who cheats, steals, etc... It's done in politics all the time and I'm sick of it.
About those matches, the only thing I see is:
Ajax - Real
The referee was abysmal against Ajax, not allowing 2 goals for the dutch. I expect what Mr. Mourinho, one of the biggest conspiracy crusaders out there, has to say. Probably nothing, because he only opens his mouth to moan.
But it was cruel. Specially when 2 of Real goals came in a very similar way. In my oppinion: simply bad referees. That can happen. They're human and they can fail. Sometimes, they fail too much for a team, but it's nothing extraordinary. I bet we have all seen this kind of things happen now and then against all the clubs.
And besides this... yes, big teams have slightly less referee errors against. But guess what? Big teams use to spend a lot more time attakcing and generate a lot more dubious plays. So it's only natural that somehow some referee errors favourish them. It was a very bad refereenig only in those 2 plays. The rest of the match was very fair so you can't say the referee was all the time crushing Ajax.
That said, in my oppinion Ajax deserved to go through instead of Lyon. Based not only on this, but in the overall CL matches. Ajax plays a much more attractive football and deserved better.
Dinamo-Lyon
I watched only bits of the match, because I was watching Ajax-Real at the same time, so maybe I missed something. The red card, in my oppinion, is perfectly shown. Last defender, clear goal chance... red card. Didn't see any other referee decision that could explain the result, so it's all down to the players.
Dinamo players were holding very well until the match went 1-2. The first 2 goals of Lyon are clearly lucky goals. With rebounds and very ugly plays. But they went in, and this crushed Dianmo's morale. They were with only 10 men, and they stopped fighting.
If anything, it's down to the Dinamo players being total crap in the last 30 minutes. This things happen. There was nothing at stake for them, and they were clearly the weakest team in the competition. Lyon had luck but also they played very well in the last minutes and were really effective.
If anything, it's a shame that teams like this one can be in the competition while Udinese wasn't. I know that small teams need their chance to get into the CL and I have nothing against Dinamo, but it's not fair when you compare the different groups and teams like Dinamo make it easy for some opponents, specially in the last matches when all is lost for them. Had Ajax played their last match against Dinamo, they would be probably in 1/8 right now.
There's no solution to this because we want all the clubs to have the chance to make it for the groups. But at least they should reconsider, in my oppinion, the way that drafts are done. Arsenal-Udinese before the groups is clearly an error when both they were clearly the better teams in the draft.
About those matches, the only thing I see is:
Ajax - Real
The referee was abysmal against Ajax, not allowing 2 goals for the dutch. I expect what Mr. Mourinho, one of the biggest conspiracy crusaders out there, has to say. Probably nothing, because he only opens his mouth to moan.
But it was cruel. Specially when 2 of Real goals came in a very similar way. In my oppinion: simply bad referees. That can happen. They're human and they can fail. Sometimes, they fail too much for a team, but it's nothing extraordinary. I bet we have all seen this kind of things happen now and then against all the clubs.
And besides this... yes, big teams have slightly less referee errors against. But guess what? Big teams use to spend a lot more time attakcing and generate a lot more dubious plays. So it's only natural that somehow some referee errors favourish them. It was a very bad refereenig only in those 2 plays. The rest of the match was very fair so you can't say the referee was all the time crushing Ajax.
That said, in my oppinion Ajax deserved to go through instead of Lyon. Based not only on this, but in the overall CL matches. Ajax plays a much more attractive football and deserved better.
Dinamo-Lyon
I watched only bits of the match, because I was watching Ajax-Real at the same time, so maybe I missed something. The red card, in my oppinion, is perfectly shown. Last defender, clear goal chance... red card. Didn't see any other referee decision that could explain the result, so it's all down to the players.
Dinamo players were holding very well until the match went 1-2. The first 2 goals of Lyon are clearly lucky goals. With rebounds and very ugly plays. But they went in, and this crushed Dianmo's morale. They were with only 10 men, and they stopped fighting.
If anything, it's down to the Dinamo players being total crap in the last 30 minutes. This things happen. There was nothing at stake for them, and they were clearly the weakest team in the competition. Lyon had luck but also they played very well in the last minutes and were really effective.
If anything, it's a shame that teams like this one can be in the competition while Udinese wasn't. I know that small teams need their chance to get into the CL and I have nothing against Dinamo, but it's not fair when you compare the different groups and teams like Dinamo make it easy for some opponents, specially in the last matches when all is lost for them. Had Ajax played their last match against Dinamo, they would be probably in 1/8 right now.
There's no solution to this because we want all the clubs to have the chance to make it for the groups. But at least they should reconsider, in my oppinion, the way that drafts are done. Arsenal-Udinese before the groups is clearly an error when both they were clearly the better teams in the draft.
#71
Champions League
- 18 May 2006
- SL Benfica
Actually Mourinho this time said the result was unfair, and that Ajax should had have those 2 goals allowed.
About Dinamo vs Lyon match... if something was fixed we'll most likely never know, but the thing that confuses me the most is the (lack) of celebration from Lyon players when they scored. Any other team in the world would be running all over the field with the 5th, 6th, 7th goal... Not even a smile..
On the 6th goal there's like 5 guys against 2 attackers in the area... very strange.
About Dinamo vs Lyon match... if something was fixed we'll most likely never know, but the thing that confuses me the most is the (lack) of celebration from Lyon players when they scored. Any other team in the world would be running all over the field with the 5th, 6th, 7th goal... Not even a smile..
On the 6th goal there's like 5 guys against 2 attackers in the area... very strange.
Cuky
International
No because Unicef is not Real's sponsor 
PIPA23
retired :)
- 21 June 2007
don´t tell me the last word is "RICH"
nope...
i remember that he say that he play on Osijek win (his club) and hendicap on Bayern
cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
Lyon v APOEL
Napoli v Chelsea
AC Milan v Arsenal
Basle v Bayern Munich
Bayer Leverkusen v Barcelona
CSKA Moscow v Real Madrid
Zenit v Benfica
Marseilles v Inter.
Napoli v Chelsea
AC Milan v Arsenal
Basle v Bayern Munich
Bayer Leverkusen v Barcelona
CSKA Moscow v Real Madrid
Zenit v Benfica
Marseilles v Inter.
cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
Lyon are very lucky again!
-Panos-
Premier League
No, they are not.
Artem
International
...On the contrary, Lyon got a very, very hard draw, because Apoel is very strong and well balanced, as shown by the group stage matches. And if Lyon will underestimate them, it is likely Apoel kick ass Lyon in France and a Cyprus ...
P.S ... I hope it would happen.
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ThomasGOAL
Retired Footballer
- 15 March 2003
Apoel finish first from a group with three Europa League winners of the last four years Porto, Zenit and Shakhtar, that mean alot !
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Wow nice matches! Really looking forward to them all. I think most apart from a couple like Bayern vs. Basel and Leverkusen vs. Barca can go either way with both teams having a very good chance to progress.
Those are the only supposedly two 'easier' matches which I expect Barca and Bayern to go through.
We'll see though.
Those are the only supposedly two 'easier' matches which I expect Barca and Bayern to go through.
We'll see though.
