Arsenal Thread

cheers Bobby.

back on topic. how come Wenger never experimented with 442 in carling cup games by putting say chamack and park upfront?

Too late now to try 442 as the players will need to adjust to that. unless we progress further into the fa cup and get some lower division side then maybe worth a punt
 
BobbyBox said:
Yeah it would be nice to see Walcott have a go down the middle and see if he really will be any good there.
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Walcott's finishing is a joke mate. Every time he says he wants to play CF, his poor finishing and lack of cool in front of goal springs to mind. Like that one against West Bromwich.
If you're choosing someone to play central forward alongside RVP in a 4-4-2 system, I'd go with Arshavin any day of the week. That's a role that doesn't require him to defend, because he cannot. And let's face it, he's a much cooler finisher than Walcott.
While I'm at it, let me just say that Walcott has been shit ever since he got his pay rise. He just doesn't get the same amount of stick than Arshavin, maybe cause he's English.
You see, all the wingers in this 4-3-3 system fail to help the fullbacks in defence. Djourou was left on his own against Nani and Evra, while Walcott didn't track back to help. Remember their 1st goal? Walcott didn't defend and didn't produce fuck all in offense. That's why he's really getting on my nerves.

And before I forget, Jonney, you mentioned the players that left and the ones who came as replacement. Let me just say that Clichy is fucking shite mate, never convinced me. He switched off when defending, more often than not, costing us goals. So if he's shite at defending, he must have been good at attacking, yeah? NO! Santos already scored 2 goals for us in 3 months, the same amount Clichy scored during his 6 years at the club?!

And don't compare the other guys who came with Fabregas and Nasri. They were our main players. It's quite unfair what you say about Arteta, he's hungry to play for us and you see how we missed him in the last 2 matches.

Mertesacker is just too slow, I agree, but other than that I don't see how he is shit?
 
Rentboy said:
Walcott's finishing is a joke mate. Every time he says he wants to play CF, his poor finishing and lack of cool in front of goal springs to mind. Like that one against West Bromwich.
If you're choosing someone to play central forward alongside RVP in a 4-4-2 system, I'd go with Arshavin any day of the week. That's a role that doesn't require him to defend, because he cannot. And let's face it, he's a much cooler finisher than Walcott.
While I'm at it, let me just say that Walcott has been shit ever since he got his pay rise. He just doesn't get the same amount of stick than Arshavin, maybe cause he's English.
You see, all the wingers in this 4-3-3 system fail to help the fullbacks in defence. Djourou was left on his own against Nani and Evra, while Walcott didn't track back to help. Remember their 1st goal? Walcott didn't defend and didn't produce fuck all in offense. That's why he's really getting on my nerves.

And before I forget, Jonney, you mentioned the players that left and the ones who came as replacement. Let me just say that Clichy is fucking shite mate, never convinced me. He switched off when defending, more often than not, costing us goals. So if he's shite at defending, he must have been good at attacking, yeah? NO! Santos already scored 2 goals for us in 3 months, the same amount Clichy scored during his 6 years at the club?!

And don't compare the other guys who came with Fabregas and Nasri. They were our main players. It's quite unfair what you say about Arteta, he's hungry to play for us and you see how we missed him in the last 2 matches.

Mertesacker is just too slow, I agree, but other than that I don't see how he is shit?
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I don't think his finishing is a joke, but he could do alot more, but again he is only 22!

Because of the hype he got when he first came to us, the ridiculous decision by Sven to take him to the World cup etc it has set Walcott up for failure.

I have seen Walcott finish lots of times very well, so he definately has it in him. His crossing is getting much better and improving as well as his overall game, he was getting back alot better this season and helping the fullback (not last week though).

As said before I think he had a very good first half of the season, the beginning of the second half isn't looking too good, with a few bad games in a row not only for the team, but for him also.

He is not the finished article and people should stop thinking of him as one, maybe we need another player in that position that he can learn from? but then he will get less games to progress?

But I am certain if he goes from Arsenal, he will be a very good player eventually for another team and will probably come back to haunt us in some way.

Seeing the expectations from fans and Media with Walcott and the niggly injuries he has had for the past couple of seasons, can you blame Wenger that much for trying not to play The Ox for full games etc?

If he is more central, rather than coming in from the sides or at an angle all of the time he might be a much better finisher? I don't know, but it would be nice for him to get a few games in the centre to see.
 
Whens the last time Ashavin has scored? Walcott is a better finisher then Ashavin. When Walcott puts his head down and concentrate, the guy is capable of finishing like Henry.

What lets Walcott down is his decison making and crossing ability. put him as our main striker for a few games on the trot and he will grab u goals guaranteed.

Out on the wing he hardly gets a scoring opportunity as he is trying so hard to beat 2-3 players to get into a scoring opportunity.

if he was the main man that arsenal thread the ball to to score, he would score.
 
Couldn't remember the last time we had so many good post ...good reading this even had a few chuckles. I think Arteta role is bigger than we think just watch on sunday. We lost 2games without him in the middle he defends as much as he attacks. Arteta,song n jack are going to be solid in the middle / them on it will feel like 5 cb playing.
 
bebo said:
Couldn't remember the last time we had so many good post ...good reading this even had a few chuckles. I think Arteta role is bigger than we think just watch on sunday. We lost 2games without him in the middle he defends as much as he attacks. Arteta,song n jack are going to be solid in the middle / them on it will feel like 5 cb playing.
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Exactly mate! Song, Arteta and Wilshere will add a lot of steel to midfield. Ramsey's too soft and switches off all the time, gets dispossessed inside our own half, etc.
However, in the last 2 matches Song has had some of his worst performances ever for us. What's happening? :(
 
Song is a leg he needs another leg to support him. Ramsey is good but he never got loaned out so he's doing it at Arsenal :P seriously Song is not Toure but he's pretty damn close to be his shadow damn it. I bet Arteta allows him to explore more but Ramsey,Benayou n Rosicky limits his attributes.
 
Ok jonney, sorry for calling you childish...

Arshavin is in a confidence crisis, he is a very good player, always has had consistency problems, but what happens now is worse...maybe he is home sick, maybe he is unhappy ar Arsenal, maybe he's got private problems, maybe he can't get used having a VIP treatment like with Zenith (Arshavin knows Putin very well, hence the VIP treatment) or maybe it's just that he has the same thing as Torres: bad form, bad luck and a lack of confidence that is getting bigger and bigger. Personally i wouldn't give up on him yet...

Ramsey has played a lot more than was foreseen and might have problems with that. He is turning out a fine player.

IMO Clichy was not good enough for a big team, but he is actually doing fine with City.

Arteta is a very good player. The only thing i don't understand is why Wenger has bought Park (who i liked in France) and hardly ever plays him...that must not be good for his confidence.

Flamini left for Milan but has never been the same player again, the same goes for Hleb. This could mean that Wenger can make certain players better.

One of things that estranges Wenger from the fans is the fact that he doesn't buy a lot of players. Fans tend to like transfers and new players in the hope that they revitalize teams (which isn't always the case).

And one other thing: maybe Wenger should have left the season after the invincables...he put down a benchmark there that he can't achieve anymore.
 
Yup, not even the mighty barcelona can go a whole season unbeaten. i reckon the invincibles would have been a match for this current barcelona side but thats another discussion we'll have later :)
 
jonneymendoza said:
Yup, not even the mighty barcelona can go a whole season unbeaten. i reckon the invincibles would have been a match for this current barcelona side but thats another discussion we'll have later :)
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They weren't even a match for the Barcelona of the time.

If they were then they'd have won the Champions League and they didn't get anywhere near to doing so.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Yup, not even the mighty barcelona can go a whole season unbeaten. i reckon the invincibles would have been a match for this current barcelona side but thats another discussion we'll have later :)
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A team can go all year unbeaten by drawing every game. What Arsenal did was great and should be proud of it but it doesn't mean they are better than a defeated Barca side. You are comparing Apples with Pears anyway.
 
Liverpool won CL being in 5th....does CL really means best in the land. liverpool won more CL than Mutd what does that say? Not a whole lot I prefer the term best on the day. Hell city n mutd are top of the table but choose to play europa league . I think mutd are the best epl team but things are changing fast.
 
Interesting article on Arshavin:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2091097/Andrey-Arshavin-ruined-Arsenal.html

Yes, a more defensively apt player might have dealt with Antonio Valencia better, but Arshavin was not the only man culpable if we break it down.
With the game stretched, he was caught out of position in tracking Antonio Valencia. But, without a left back in sight, he still managed to get close to the Ecuadorian, guiding him inside where Arsenal were strong, towards Alex Song and Thomas Vermaelen. Song was easily bamboozled into stepping aside while Vermaelen stood square as Valencia passed. Arshavin stuck with Valencia and prevented him from shooting when receiving the ball back, seven yards from goal. Valencia instead returned the ball to Welbeck, who scored, unmarked, as the rest of Arsenal's defence looked at each other. This was obviously all Arshavin's fault. Forget that Arsenal had been vulnerable down the flanks all game (see United's opening goal) or that Arsene Wenger has been fielding defences without full backs having got three weeks into the transfer window without signing reinforcements.

I agree with most of this, you can't really blame him for the goal, what was he meant to do? Dive in and conceed a penalty? He's never been a decent defensive player and if he'd risked a tackle it could have been a disaster.
 
anyway who was meant to be a left back for that goal? How come they went Awol?

Yes like I say its unfortuate for arshavin, in fact you coudl even say he did well in the situation, as a skilled attacker he managed to track the winger and even chased him all the way into the box whislt the real defenders were no help at all.

I know hes played bad and been out of sorts over a long period. But I really feel sorry for the wee russian on this one.

Its like having a nightmare and waking up to an even bigger nightmare. Just when things in your life cant get worse, they do. Its really gonna hit is already low morale. Anwyay gien his age hes not gonna get any better anytime soon. Better to offload him.
 
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Yeah I felt bad for him too. Generally though, I do blame him and do think some of the criticism he gets is fair but yeah I hear you.

cfdh_edmundo said:
Interesting article on Arshavin:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2091097/Andrey-Arshavin-ruined-Arsenal.html

Yes, a more defensively apt player might have dealt with Antonio Valencia better, but Arshavin was not the only man culpable if we break it down.
With the game stretched, he was caught out of position in tracking Antonio Valencia. But, without a left back in sight, he still managed to get close to the Ecuadorian, guiding him inside where Arsenal were strong, towards Alex Song and Thomas Vermaelen. Song was easily bamboozled into stepping aside while Vermaelen stood square as Valencia passed. Arshavin stuck with Valencia and prevented him from shooting when receiving the ball back, seven yards from goal. Valencia instead returned the ball to Welbeck, who scored, unmarked, as the rest of Arsenal's defence looked at each other. This was obviously all Arshavin's fault. Forget that Arsenal had been vulnerable down the flanks all game (see United's opening goal) or that Arsene Wenger has been fielding defences without full backs having got three weeks into the transfer window without signing reinforcements.

I agree with most of this, you can't really blame him for the goal, what was he meant to do? Dive in and conceed a penalty? He's never been a decent defensive player and if he'd risked a tackle it could have been a disaster.
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He could've done better in my opinion but yeah it's harsh to blame him solely for the goal when it wasn't only him that could've done better and if anything the more defensive minded players also failed to close down Valencia properly.

I did find it interesting, how the cameras VERY QUICKLY all shifted to Arshavin's clueless face :LOL: right after the goal was scored though!
As if he had just scored an own goal or something! :SHOCK:

I'm not one for these 'conspiracy' theories and media supposedly picking out an individual and having a propaganda against them, etc. but someone made a point of this in the latter page of this thread and I have to say it peaked my interest enough just to at least consider it for a second. I still don't believe it but that was a bit strange.

And what made it funny is his face! :LOL: Kinda innocent, kinda lazy, kinda bamboozled, guy wasn't having the best moment of his life that's for sure. Was funny too though :LOL:
 
Even if he was at fault for his poor defensive attempt/skill (not efforts)

he wasnt at fault for being stuck in left back on a man utd attack in last 15mins of a vital game. Thats really what I mean by feeling sorry for him.

Imagine your a centre forward for your pub team and the boss puts you on left back for last 15mins, you end up beign at fualt for a goal. Now youd be pretty upset and annoyed by the whole situation.

If you put Tony adams up front in last 15mins to win a game and he missed an open goal. WOuld he get slated? If he did youd have to feel sorry for him. But big Tony wouldve scored obvs :)
 
PLF said:
Yeah I felt bad for him too. Generally though, I do blame him and do think some of the criticism he gets is fair but yeah I hear you.



He could've done better in my opinion but yeah it's harsh to blame him solely for the goal when it wasn't only him that could've done better and if anything the more defensive minded players also failed to close down Valencia properly.

I did find it interesting, how the cameras VERY QUICKLY all shifted to Arshavin's clueless face :LOL: right after the goal was scored though!
As if he had just scored an own goal or something! :SHOCK:

I'm not one for these 'conspiracy' theories and media supposedly picking out an individual and having a propaganda against them, etc. but someone made a point of this in the latter page of this thread and I have to say it peaked my interest enough just to at least consider it for a second. I still don't believe it but that was a bit strange.

And what made it funny is his face! :LOL: Kinda innocent, kinda lazy, kinda bamboozled, guy wasn't having the best moment of his life that's for sure. Was funny too though :LOL:
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That was me who pointed it out, I think. Yes, I can sense there is indeed some sort of media campaign against Arshavin, especially from Sky Sports. It's like an editorial direction they already had in mind beforehand. All the cameras went instantly to him!
In the post match discussion, the pundits were already with some sort of rehearsed speech. That dickhead Neville saying stuff like "What is it with Arshavin? He looks like he's unhappy? You're unhappy in England? Go back to Russia!"... and stuff like that, almost as if he was taking it personally! :P

People slated him as if he didn't try, but you described exactly what happened - he stuck with Valencia until the end. And the goal came from an unmarked Welbeck.

Now see if any of those pundits said a word about Englishman Walcott? If English media and fans expect attackers to help defence, then let's be fair and analyse everybody's performance. Where was Walcott during United's 1st goal? Djourou was left on one-on-ones with Nani many times. Actually he was left outnumbered on that flank many other times. Nani and Evra made a mockery out of the Swiss defender, who got his fair share of stick for not being English, of course.

I'm telling you man, it's not conspiracy theories. Sky pundits play down any shortcoming or shit done by English players. When mugs like Martin Taylor or Shawcross break some foreign players' legs, they're not that kind of player. When Balotelli, trying to find his footing after a shot on goal, accidentally steps on Scott Parker's head, he's a criminal! 5-match ban now!! :LOL: hahah gimme a break...

EDIT: one last thing: did the Arsenal of yore rely on a 5'7 winger to defend at the back? Would Marc Overmars have stopped Valencia on his tracks with a perfectly timed tackle? Or is it just that old Arsenal side could defend much much better than this current one?
 
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Rentboy said:
EDIT: one last thing: did the Arsenal of yore rely on a 5'7 winger to defend at the back? Would Marc Overmars have stopped Valencia on his tracks with a perfectly timed tackle? Or is it just that old Arsenal side could defend much much better than this current one?
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exactly.

If that was marc overmars woudl anyone give a crap and be critical of him? na, they be like

''well Arsenal got in a bad situation when the team lost its shape and overmars was forced to defend against Valencia in a critical area.''

And also if this was the Arshavin 2 years ago...when he was scoring 4 versus liverpool. Would they have made a big deal out of it.

Its same old media they like to escualte eveything and nothing more fun than slagging off someone whos already in the spotlight for poor performances etc..
 
I completely agree with those last posts.
There is also less outrage about Terry's "racist reaction" than about Suarez'....Granted Chelsea handled this much more intelligent than Liverpool, but still...
 
pes4lyfe said:
Even if he was at fault for his poor defensive attempt/skill (not efforts)

he wasnt at fault for being stuck in left back on a man utd attack in last 15mins of a vital game. Thats really what I mean by feeling sorry for him.

Imagine your a centre forward for your pub team and the boss puts you on left back for last 15mins, you end up beign at fualt for a goal. Now youd be pretty upset and annoyed by the whole situation.

If you put Tony adams up front in last 15mins to win a game and he missed an open goal. WOuld he get slated? If he did youd have to feel sorry for him. But big Tony wouldve scored obvs :)
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Thats why the fans are booing wenger, not Ashavin.One of he many reasons why IMO wenger has lost the plot.

Ashavins finished thanks to a mixture of his own cockups and wenger throwing in where the sharks(media, pundits and fans) can have a field day at him.


bebo said:
+agreed English only looks out for English whether ppl say NO , it`s in the pudding!
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Arsenal are an english side, what do you expect? German always brag about there german players and spanish always brag about there spanish players etc etc. you just got to deal with the fact that a player who is local will always get a bit of leg room more then a foreign player.

Its a fact of life. Eduardo has been torn to pieces from the media, Torres and in the past, even C Ronaldo. Yet Terry can bang and fuck his team mates wife, call A Ferdinand a racist remark and Rooney gets to fuck and bang anything that walks and its all good mate. nothing wrong with that.
 
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I agree the fans are booing wenger but the media is spotlighting Arshavin, cameras, post interview with wenger, gary neville etc. Like being the wrong man in the worng place at the wrong time is what happened to Andrei. And it really couldnt have happened to a more unforutante player lol....if any of a 20 man arsenal squad was to be at 'fault' for a United winner it couldnt have been worse than being Arshavin. Already down and shot with an arrow to the knee lol

Well anyway like I say Arshavin is still gonna feel the weight of this on him. Im sure he aint going into training in a great mood.
 
Arsenal Pay alot of Money to Arshavin to play football. Wenger is really bad making him play a sport he is payed a ridiculous amount of money to play.

I don't think it was right to blame Arshavin for the goal, but come on the guy is an adult, I feel sorry for him, but I am sure his millions of pounds will keep him going and after a few months he will be back in Russia where he will be more comfortable.
 
matherto said:
RVP and Walcott up front IMO, lets face it Theo isn't a winger, he's a striker and he's got decent finishing abilities.
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Agreed mate - it's like putting Michael Owen as a winger. Can't step over, can't beat the defender, won't look up when hitting the byeline.

On the otherhand, play the ball into space, and he's on it like a fly to shit.
 
pes4lyfe said:
maybe we should go back to a solid 4-4-2

RVP+Camckh up front?
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Agreed 100% with a formation change. We have lost two of the most creative passers and ball-retainers in Nasri and Fabregas, and are STILL playing a formation built around them. Without the players to play this system, if baffles me why we do. Even with Fabregas leaving, and Nasri doing a job towards the end, we were still playing 4-3-3 knowing of their departures. Surely we should have moved to 4-4-2, or again, does Wenger see somthing we do not with Wilshire and Ramsey (who do be honest, looks completely burntout poor guy).

I also believe our striker situation has a lot has to do with this one striker formation which never changes. The longer we have one striker up front (who is in scintillating form this season) the longer others do not play. Playtime is linked to mental confidence and physcial form and consistency, and therefore, i believe our other forwards are the victims of Van Persie's success and Wenger's tactical naievity.

I would like to see the following..

Park/Chamakh/Walcott
-------------Van Persie

Gervinho------------Chamberlain
------Ramsey/Arteta
-----------------Wilshire/Song

Santos/Gibbs-Verm--Mert/Kos--Sagna

-------------Chesney

cfdh_edmundo said:
Interesting article on Arshavin:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2091097/Andrey-Arshavin-ruined-Arsenal.html

Yes, a more defensively apt player might have dealt with Antonio Valencia better, but Arshavin was not the only man culpable if we break it down.
With the game stretched, he was caught out of position in tracking Antonio Valencia. But, without a left back in sight, he still managed to get close to the Ecuadorian, guiding him inside where Arsenal were strong, towards Alex Song and Thomas Vermaelen. Song was easily bamboozled into stepping aside while Vermaelen stood square as Valencia passed. Arshavin stuck with Valencia and prevented him from shooting when receiving the ball back, seven yards from goal. Valencia instead returned the ball to Welbeck, who scored, unmarked, as the rest of Arsenal's defence looked at each other. This was obviously all Arshavin's fault. Forget that Arsenal had been vulnerable down the flanks all game (see United's opening goal) or that Arsene Wenger has been fielding defences without full backs having got three weeks into the transfer window without signing reinforcements.
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Nice to see Daily Mail lifting Football365 ...:)

But he could have shown him down the line, instead of that pathetic lunge to stop Valencia cross when he dipped his shoulder and went inside. Agree though, that they should have never been allowed to play triangles in our penalty box.

pes4lyfe said:
anyway who was meant to be a left back for that goal? How come they went Awol?
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Vermaelen. It's strange - saw him play this position for Ajax on a number of occassions, but watch him closely - he has a natural affinity to go to the centre away from the sideline.
 
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