Arsenal Thread

I`m incline to think if Fab was on holiday n telling such things. He has the players bidding for him ? Imagine you sending your mates to tell your girlfriend its over plz move on.

Then, seeing Jack saying real man are loyal bit seem more like. Speak up let ppl know your position. Sometime nothing seem what we believe to be true.
 
Wenger behaves like a 15 year old...
I honestly don't see what's wrong with what Xavi said.
Obviously Xavi would like Fabregas to come to Barcelona...so what's wrong with that?
Let's just pretend that Samuel Eto'o would like to come to Arsenal and Song would be (rightly so) excited that his national team mate could join his club side. Why should he not say that he is looking forward to it? And let's pretend that Inter does not let him go because they want a good prize for him (and let's not fool ourselves all Arsenal fans in here would find that a crazy prize) and Eto'o would be extremely unhappy. Why could Song not say that Eto'o desperately wants to join Arsenal? I see nothing wrong with that.

Fabregas has been fantastic for Arsenal: give him his reward and let him go. The longer you wait, the more difficult it will become to find a good replacement.

Oh and as a Spurs fan (and a Modric fan), i think exactly the same about Modric. Luka wants to leave, he's been a fantastic player who always played 100% for the club...well let him go to Chelsea and the first time he comes back at White Heart Lane, he should get a standing ovation. Spurs should have learned from the Berbatov saga...in the end they lost him all the same.
 
Wenger has said in the metro that he will let nasri go for free.

Also, Xavi sturring crap once again saying fabregas is "suffering" staying at arsenal.

fuck off Xavi.
 
gerd said:
Wenger behaves like a 15 year old...
I honestly don't see what's wrong with what Xavi said.
Obviously Xavi would like Fabregas to come to Barcelona...so what's wrong with that?
Let's just pretend that Samuel Eto'o would like to come to Arsenal and Song would be (rightly so) excited that his national team mate could join his club side. Why should he not say that he is looking forward to it? And let's pretend that Inter does not let him go because they want a good prize for him (and let's not fool ourselves all Arsenal fans in here would find that a crazy prize) and Eto'o would be extremely unhappy. Why could Song not say that Eto'o desperately wants to join Arsenal? I see nothing wrong with that.

Fabregas has been fantastic for Arsenal: give him his reward and let him go. The longer you wait, the more difficult it will become to find a good replacement.

Oh and as a Spurs fan (and a Modric fan), i think exactly the same about Modric. Luka wants to leave, he's been a fantastic player who always played 100% for the club...well let him go to Chelsea and the first time he comes back at White Heart Lane, he should get a standing ovation. Spurs should have learned from the Berbatov saga...in the end they lost him all the same.
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Ok lets let fabregas go for peanuts and let barcelona take 20 years to pay the total sum of the peanuts they agreed for cecs. how are we going to buy a replacement using peanuts? What creative midfielder that is as good as cesc can be bought for less then 30m and is same age or younger?

come on mate we have discussed this already on why arsenal wont budge. same reason why spurs wont either.
 
If a player desperately wants to go to a bigger club, let him go.
Concerning the prize. That is all very subjective. Lots of Lille fans think Gervinho went away for a bargain prize.
The fact is that when a big club buys your star player, it is utopian to replace him with anoter accomplished star. No, you replace him with a player who will become a star. Lille should do this to replace Gervinho, but Arsenal should do likewise for Fabregas.

In the end both Arsenal and Spurs will loose this...they will loose crucial time and will have difficulties to replace Modric and Fabregas. This will leave a big hole in their squad.
 
Rules are rules and contracts are contracts, it might be different in Catalonia, but the rule of commercial law generally prevails in these matters in the UK.

Barca might have a policy of underpaying other clubs in Spain, but why would Arsenal sell him below market rate ? If Downing cost £20M then Arsenal can demand double that for Fabregas, who is significantly younger but also has a lot more top level (CL, World Cup, Euros) experience and is clearly a better player. Maybe Liverpool over-paid for Downing, but prices are set by the market and if teams are overpaying for PL players then their price will go up accordingly.

Barca can't complain about his price, European club football is a commercial business and once you scratch away the "more than a club" guff and the holier-than-thou attitude you will see Barca are in fact big proponents of football capitalism themselves, look at their tour arrangements and shirt sponsors for this coming season. If they play the commerical game they must accept the market induced prices. They've dropped big sums on other players (they paid more for Ibrahimovic, the same for Villa and only slightly less for Sanchis). And as I've said before Barca's policy of pay-in-installments is likely to add a premium to the price, if Arsenal dont see the funds immediately they can't replace him immediately.

Fabregas is under contract for a few more years, so Arsenal don't have to sell him, especially as he hasnt handed in a transfer request. Contracts are binding, and when he signed his last one there was an element of risk on Arsenal's part. Giving him such a long contract at generous wages could have backfired if he had got badly injured. Players like Eduardo, Redondo, van Basten, even Ronaldo (Brazilian one), Ashton, have all been crippled by injuries so there is always a risk on long contracts but to counterbalance this Arsenal knew they would not lose Fabregas during the contract unless they agreed to a sale at which they could set the price.
 
You can't compare Arsenal to Lille or Fabregas to Gervinho. Fabregas is a world class player. Give me some names of quality to replace him. Plus, Arsenal are at risk of losing a top 4 spot next season with City and Liverpool enforcing. Selling their best player and making the fans angry and recieving a fee 10 mill short of their demand in installments just to make Fabregas's "dream" come true is just out of the question. Until Fabregas hands in a transfer request, their player, their rules. Keep in mid, we do't know anything if their was a promise or something from Arsenal to Cesc when he renewed his contract. I doubt Cesc didn't bring up a move when he renewed.

Xavi should just shut up. I am surprised Wegner only now responded to that army of declerations on Cesc and Arsenal.
 
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well said. Lte cesc hand ina transfer request if he wants. we will lose absolutely nothing if we dont sell fabregas now but we can lose a lto from nasri if we dont sell or tie him into a new contract.

IMO its only nasri that is a concern and not fabregas. Keeping fabregas for even 2 more years wont harm arsenal whatsoever as he can still go in two years time for a decent price unliek nasri who can be gone for free in a year.

Now if barcelona was after nasri, thats a differnet story. nasri would have gone by now
 
gerd said:
Wenger behaves like a 15 year old...
I honestly don't see what's wrong with what Xavi said.
Obviously Xavi would like Fabregas to come to Barcelona...so what's wrong with that?
Let's just pretend that Samuel Eto'o would like to come to Arsenal and Song would be (rightly so) excited that his national team mate could join his club side. Why should he not say that he is looking forward to it? And let's pretend that Inter does not let him go because they want a good prize for him (and let's not fool ourselves all Arsenal fans in here would find that a crazy prize) and Eto'o would be extremely unhappy. Why could Song not say that Eto'o desperately wants to join Arsenal? I see nothing wrong with that.

Fabregas has been fantastic for Arsenal: give him his reward and let him go. The longer you wait, the more difficult it will become to find a good replacement.

Oh and as a Spurs fan (and a Modric fan), i think exactly the same about Modric. Luka wants to leave, he's been a fantastic player who always played 100% for the club...well let him go to Chelsea and the first time he comes back at White Heart Lane, he should get a standing ovation. Spurs should have learned from the Berbatov saga...in the end they lost him all the same.
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Wenger is behaving like a 15 year old but Xavi is fine?

I really find it baffling how you can think what Xavi is saying is fine? if he says it to a friend in passing then that is fine. Saying it in public on your official website about a player that is at another club is extremely disrespectful and they know why they are doing it. They want the clubs fans to turn against Fab, to make it easier for him to go.

Look Fab wasn't doing us a favour when he signed his new deal, he is captain of a top team in the world and gets paid handsomely for it. I'm fed up with people saying we should let him go, poor Fabregas. It's rubbish, he is a footballer who signed a very good contract and now has to live with his decision.

Why should we let him go for less money to one of the biggest clubs in the world?! If his home club was a small club and they couldn't afford that amount of money, then I would be more inclined to let him go for less, but come on, this is Barcelona, they are a huge club, the biggest in World football at the moment and they need to act like it.

Instead of petty little quotes and their players acting like idiots, they should stop messing Fabregas about and pay the money. It really is as simple as that.

He has the most assists over the last 5 years in the top 4 leagues in the world apparently. Barca are not paying for potential here, he is a young player that is one of the best midfielders in the world, he has a 4 year contract with Arsenal, so they have to pay what he is worth.

I don't care what anybody says, If Cesc didn't have the connections with Barca they would have paid the money. It is stupid what they are doing at the moment.
 
LOL! every summer the same story :D
Edmundo said:
Rules are rules and contracts are contracts, it might be different in Catalonia, but the rule of commercial law generally prevails in these matters in the UK.

Barca might have a policy of underpaying other clubs in Spain, but why would Arsenal sell him below market rate ? If Downing cost £20M then Arsenal can demand double that for Fabregas, who is significantly younger but also has a lot more top level (CL, World Cup, Euros) experience and is clearly a better player. Maybe Liverpool over-paid for Downing, but prices are set by the market and if teams are overpaying for PL players then their price will go up accordingly.
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oh come on mate, u know better than that! i really don't understand why u guys have to turn this situation into some sort of a moral superiority pageant.
THIS IS ABOUT BUSINESS AND NOT ABOUT FAIRNESS OR MORAL SUPERIORITY! and believe me, if it were about moral superiority, then arsenal would NOT have the upper hand (given how they signed cesc in the first place).

barcelona don't have a policy of underpaying.... they have this quite common habit..... negotiating. we all have this habit infact. what do u do when u go car shopping. u just go to the dealer and pay whatever sum of money he asks? of course not! u will single out every single flaw u see, no matter how irrilevant or stupid... u will start making silly comparisons with other cars in front of the dealer.... u will recurr to whatever trick or cheesy expedient u know to get some leverage. is that fair? NO is that classy? of course not... and it's not supposed to be... because no negotiation is supposed to be fair.
i took used cars as example, but really we all do that everyday. wheter we're buying a house or negotiating a mortgage or signing a contract with a phone company, we always try to hold on to whatever bargaining power we got and we take advantage of it. that's what negotiating is about. i wrote a letter to sky a few weeks ago and announced them my intention to rescind my contract with them. they called me one week after and proposed me a new contract with a 15% discount on the market price. my neighbor didn't do that and now he's paying more than me for exactly the same service... is this fair? no... shoud i feel guilty for "underpaying" (like u said) for this service? hell no. i just took advantage of my bargaining power.
and that's what negotiations are about. and don't be fooled, wether it's a guy signing a phone contract or a millionaire buying a painting or 2 huge companies working on a merger, it makes no difference at all. we all recurr to the same expedients.

so don't picture barcelona as a cheesy club just because they're trying to do what they're supposed to be doing. wich is getting the best possible deal for themselves. that's exactly what arsenal is trying to do. in every negotiation, the seller always tries to oversell while the buyer always try to underpay. and there's absolutely nothing wrong with this. as long as we keep it legal, we're entitled to recurr to every cheesy trick we can, in order to get a good deal and make our own interest (whether we're selling or buying something).

u say "barca can't complain about fabregas pricetag"..... why? of course they can. they have every right to bitch about the pricetag or to recurr to cheesy tricks like having their players talking about arsenal..... exactly as arsenal has every right to just refuse whatever offer they don't like. no one is pointing a gun at arsenal and forcing them to sell at barca's conditions.... but it's extremely naive (to say the least) to expect barca not negotiating at all and not making their own conditions.

u also referred to a "market rate". u even used downing as a benchmark (and some other people used carrol as a benchmark before). u also mentioned the sanchez deal and the villa deal, trying to establish another benchmark.
let me tell something mate, there are no benchmarks, because there's no such thing as a market rate. and there's no such thing as a market rate because there's no such thing as a market when it comes to football players.
u can talk about a "market" when u're dealing with a certain ammount of FUNGIBLE GOODS. there's a gold market, a oil market, a rubber market.... there's a car market a houses market.
non fungible entities, such as paintings or football players instead have no market at all. u often hear the expression "art market", well that expression is just as unappropriate as "players market". each painting, each sculpture and each football player is absolutely unique, therefore by definition and logic there can't be a market. and therefore for theese entities there can't be a market rate.
and precisely because of this very simple and undenyable fact, the deals that concern theese unique, non fungible "entities" (i know entities is not the most appropriate word, but i just don't feel like calling a player a "good") are regulated by completely different dynamics. and the prices are effected by theese peculiar dynamics.

how many years of contract the club can count on? how many buyers are trying to sign the player? how happy the player is at his current club? how much the player would desire to join the buyer's club? is the player willing to accept another destination? is the player willing to accept a contract renewal when the current one gets close to its expiring date? how badly the buyer's club wants the player? what's the timing of the deal?

theese (and many others) are the factors that come into play in football players negotiation. and they can hugely effect the deals themselves, bringing to absolutely crazy results.
but those results might seem crazy only if u try to explain them using the common rules of a market. and that's the mistake!
the reason why sanchez is about to be sold for such a high pricetag is because there were several clubs trying to buy him. and obviously, since football players are unique, non fungible entities, the more clubs are following a player, the more his pricetag raises.
but implying barca should be offering much more than 35 millions just because this is what they're spending for sanchez makes absolutely no sense. we're talking about 2 completely different deals and there's no way of comparing them (nor the players involved in the deals).

let me make another example. in just about 2 years juventus sold (to palermo) a very good defensive midfielder (nocerino) for 6 million euros and then bought a much worse defensive midfielder (melo) for 25 millions. such a deal wouldn't make any sense if u would apply market's rules and dynamics.... but that's the mistake! u can't apply the common rules and dynamics of a market to players transfer. was the nocerino deal a stupid move by juventus? sure! was it an unfair deal? ABSOLUTELY NOT. palermo didn't point a gun at juve. nocerino's pricetag was the result of an agreement between 2 clubs. juve accepted that offer. therefore the deal was fair by definition.

there might be stupid deals, but there's no such thing as an unfair deal. as long as the clubs reach an agreement the pricetage is fair, no matter how stupidly high (or low) that pricetag is. it's the agreement that makes the pricetag "fair". and that agreement usually comes at the end of a ruthless and absolutely not fair negotiation.

the only "unfair" deal would be a deal reached without an agreement between the 2 clubs involved. that only happens when the player isn't old enough to sign a professional contract (i'm sure u know what i'm talking about).... but then again, in this case, we can't even talk about a "deal", because a deal, by definition, implies an offer and an acceptance. when the club isn't in the position to accept or refuse an offer (because the player can't yet be tied by a contract), then that can't be described as a "deal".
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little side note: before any of u gets on the defensive, i'm not trying to attack or blame arsenal for its "cheesy policies". taking advantage of an unfair (but legal) situation is not unfair. that's infact what business is about.
and before any of u says that, i'm well aware arsenal isn't the only club which "grabs" teenagers from other academies. many other clubs do that. infact barcelona themselves are doing something very similar to what u did with cesc with a young talented espanyol player (i'm saying that just to stress my absolutely neutral position on this subject).
the only reason i brought this thing up is to explain how every "deal" that involves a player under contract is inevitably "fair" by definition
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the factors wich effect this specific negotiation are well known. both clubs have some pretty good leverage.
arsenal can count on a very long contract. they can also count on the classyness of cesc (who isn't officially handing a transfer request). they can count on the fact they don't have any urge to sell. and finally (and that's their best card to play) they can count on the fact that barcelona isn't just looking for any top class creative midfielder. they're specifically after cesc, because of his catalan roots. and this gives the gunners huge leverage.

on the other side arsenal also have a market of "1" (because most likely cesc won't accept any offer other than barcelona's offer). and that hugely effects his pricetag (in a negative way).
moreover barça don't have any particular urge to sign the player (as they proved last summer), so they can keep going on with this negotiation for years. and obviously time is on their side in this negotiation, as cesc value decreases every summer (accordingly to the years left on his contract).
and finally (and this is barcelona's best card) the blaugranas know cesc wants to go to barcelona and won't accept any other destination.

usually when both clubs have so much leverage (as it is in this case) the negotiations are particularly ruthless and "bloody".
and this negotiation indeed is proving to be extremely stressing and ruthless and "not so nice".... but that's just how it should be.

i perfectly understand the frustration u arsenal fans must feel (trust me, being a small club supporter, i've gone though this situation more times than u could possibly imagine). cesc is your captain and arguably your most valuable player..... and obviously if u have to lose him, u at least want to make the most of this sale (from a financial point of view).

but don't blame barcelona for playing their role in this dance. they're trying to get the best deal they can, by whatever (legal) means they can devise..... wich is exactly what u would do....... wich is exactly what u already did several times. :))
 
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Your post is as true as ever Lo Zio, but although I agree with it, we still have a right to be pissed off.

People get murdered every day we are animals at the end of the day and that is what animals do. But when someone you knows gets murdered, you don't just say that is the way life is and take all the shit because of it.

It's an extreme example, but it holds true. As I have said before the way we go Cesc may have been not the most morally correct thing, but I am talking about what Barcelona are doing.

I have a right to get angry at what they are doing just as Barcelona have the right to be angry at what we do. So just saying that is what happens in negotiations will not stop people getting annoyed by it.

By all means use your negotiations at the table, all of the factors you mention have a factor on the final price. But all of the talking from the players doesn't do Barca any favours at all, last year they did the same and pissed us off and we flat out refused to do business with them. It will happen again.

By all means Barca can use their arrogance when they hold all of the cards, but in this case they don't Cesc has a 4 year contract. So they should show a bit more humility and if they want to meet the asking price then fine, if they don't then goodbye and lets wait until next year.

For a club of such high stature, the way they are going about it is very immature and insults alot of people's intelligence, especially Cescs.

I am not angry at the price they want to pay, I am angry because people are making out that Arsenal are the bad guys here, when we just want the price we think he is worth. That's it and it isn't a totally unreasonable price for the player that he is (and comparing against players that have been sold/bought and will be in the future).

We could just for the next couple of years just put a 60million price tag on his head and refuse to negotiate, but we are putting forward a deal that can be done and isn't unreasonable. Barca don't want to pay it and that's that, lets roll onto next year :DD
 
BobbyBox said:
Your post is as true as ever Lo Zio, but although I agree with it, we still have a right to be pissed off.


I have a right to get angry at what they are doing just as Barcelona have the right to be angry at what we do. So just saying that is what happens in negotiations will not stop people getting annoyed by it.
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of course u have every right to get annoyed Bobby. hell, i feel the same when this happens to my club (and believe me, it happens pretty much every season).
anger is about instinct afterall. it has very little to do with logic and it's part of our animal nature, as u correctly remarked. but we're also very intelligent and reasonable animals..... well, not all of us, but u certainly are a very intelligent animal :)) (infact u and a few other people in this thread are the reason why i bother following this thread)
so while a part of us gets very angry when another club flexes his muscles to get the upper hand in a negotiation, another part of us (the reasonable part) must also admit there's nothing unfair with it, as that's what negotiations are about... and as we would do the same thing if we were on the other side of the deal.

if u remember we had a conversation about this topic last year (as always, i enjoy chatting with u). i told u about the first time arsenal tried to get hernandez from palermo. i felt very angry at arsenal for their cheesy behaviour, but then i thought "hell, i'm sure palermo would do the same if we were as big and rich and appealing as arsenal"
usually when logic kicks in, that anger tends to vanish... or at least to get less intense and "judgement-clouding" :))
 
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BobbyBox said:
I am not angry at the price they want to pay, I am angry because people are making out that Arsenal are the bad guys here, when we just want the price we think he is worth.
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Bobby, i'm not sure if that refers to me.
If it is: to me Arsenal are not the bad guys in this story. And to be honest with you, as a neutral who wants to see competition, i hope Cesc can stay with Arsenal.

But the two things i don't understand:

1. i think Arsenal is not handling this situation very intelligent
2. i don't see what Xavi did wrong.

Edmundo,

You totally misunderstood my post.
It was never my intention to compare Gervinho with Cesc.
I was referring to the pecking order between clubs: Barcelona is higher in the pecking order than Arsenal, just like Arsenal is higher in the pecking order than Lille. Lille can't expect to replace Gervinho with a player that is (at this moment) as good as Gervinho (but maybe they can find a player who will become better than Gervinho), just like Arsenal ca't expect to replace Cesc by a player who is (currently) as good as Fabregas (because that player would other wise be bought by a club higher on the peching order).
In fact this happens all the time in football. Like Ben said in his long post: that is the way business works.
 
I used to respect Xavi. He's still a great player, but now he's added to the hall of pricks so abundant at Barcelona, together with Pique, Puyol, Dani Alves and Victor Valdez.

EDIT: Oh, and Sergio Busquets ;)
 
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That's a great post zio, as usual. Though I understand, that people get fustrated or pissed off with the club that wants to snap their best player. It's a natural and logical reaction.

What I don't understand is the victimism of talking about"making Arsenal the bad guys". I can't see anyone here that has implied that. I don't see where does this come from. I think there are no bad guys here, other than some punctual statements made last year by Laporta (and for political reasons).

I really don't see why Xavi has offended Arsenal, but at the same time Wilshere can say that Cesc has to "pove he's a man by staying". I mean, that's quite offensive in my oppinion towards Cesc as a human being. A lot more offensive than saying he's worth less than 40 M€ as a football player.
 
Barca will do what Barca wants! So, if they want negotiating we don`t have to negotiate their way....simple. Anyways, I have the Forbes World most valuable team`s list. Mutd once again #1 Those Glazer family even has their NFL club in there too. RM or bank of Spain whatever call you still on top as valuable franchise. Arsenal`s choice to build the Emirates help them become the 3rd most valuable football club. Just wish we had trophies to add .....

Top Fifty Franchises

1. Manchester United / Football / $1.86 billion
2. Dallas Cowboys / NFL / $1.81 billion
3. New York Yankees / MLB / $1.7 billion
4. Washington Redskins / NFL / $1.55 billion
5. Real Madrid / Football / $1.45 billion
6. New England Patriots / NFL / $1.37 billion
7. Arsenal / Football / $1.19 billion
8. New York Giants / NFL / $1.18 billion
9. Houston Texans / NFL / $1.17 billion
10 New York Jets / NFL / $1.14 billion
11. Philadelphia Eagles / NFL / $1.12 billion
12. Baltimore Ravens / NFL / $1.07 billion
13. Ferrari / Formula 1 / $1.07 billion
14. Chicago Bears / NFL / $1.07 billion
15. Denver Broncos / NFL / $1.05 billion
16. Idianapolis Colts / NFL / $1.04 billion
17. Carolina Panthers / NFL / $1.04 billion
18. Tampa Bay Buccaneers / NFL / $1.03 billion
19. Bayern Munich / Football / $1.03 billion
20. Green Bay Packers / NFL / $1.02 billion
21. Cleveland Browns / NFL / $1.02 billion
22. Miami Dolphins / NFL / $1.01 billion
23. Pittsburgh Steelers / NFL / $996 million
24. Tennessee Titans / NFL / $994 million
25. Seattle Seahawks / NFL / $989 million
26. Barcelona / Football / $975 million
27. Kansas City Chiefs / NFL / $965 million
28. New Orleans Saints / NFL / $955 million
29. San Francisco 49ers / NFL / $925 million
30. Arizona Cardinals / NFL / $919 million
31. Boston Red Sox / MLB / $912 million
32. San Diego Chargers / NFL / $907 million
33. Cincinnati Bengals / NFL / $905 million
34. AC Milan / Football / $838 million
35. Atlanta Falcons / NFL / $831 million
36. Detroit Lions / NFL / $817 million
37. McLaren / Formula 1 / $815 million
38. Los Angeles Dodgers / MLB / $800 million
39. Buffalo Bills/ NFL / $799 million
40. St. Louis Rams / NFL / $779 million
41. Minnesota Vikings / NFL / $774 million
42. Chicago Cubs / MLB / $773 million
43. Oakland Raiders / NFL / $758 million
44. New York Mets /MLB / $747 million
45. Jacksonville Jaguars / NFL / $725 million
46. Chelsea / Football / $658 million
47. New York Knicks / NBA / $655 million
48. Los Angeles Lakers / NBA / $643 million
49. Juventus / Football / $628 million
50. Philadelphia Phillies / MLB / $609 million
 
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The whole thing about Barcelona bargaining is that they may always feel it's unfair to them to spend all that money on a homegrown talent. But as far as the market practices go, Arsenal don't have to be sensitive to that, because that's not how the market works. Arsenal knows that if City or Real Madrid go for Cesc, they might bid close to £50M, so why sell the player for 35M euros? Especially now, that he's still tied to a 4 year contract?

Everyone at Arsenal and the fans love Cesc and want the best for him and for him to be happy. But he has to understand what a valuable asset he is to Arsenal, and if Barcelona don't acknowledge that with a decent bid, it's not gonna happen now. The ball is on Barca's court, totally! The player has a price tag, and it is bound to go up by the minute with all those crazy transfer moves.
 
lo zio said:
if u remember we had a conversation about this topic last year (as always, i enjoy chatting with u). i told u about the first time arsenal tried to get hernandez from palermo. i felt very angry at arsenal for their cheesy behaviour, but then i thought "hell, i'm sure palermo would do the same if we were as big and rich and appealing as arsenal"
usually when logic kicks in, that anger tends to vanish... or at least to get less intense and "judgement-clouding" :))
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Yeah I remember :)) sometimes I feel like a broken record, going on and on. But the situation gets on my nerves everytime. Always good to have neautral opinions, especially yours.

gerd said:
Bobby, i'm not sure if that refers to me.
If it is: to me Arsenal are not the bad guys in this story. And to be honest with you, as a neutral who wants to see competition, i hope Cesc can stay with Arsenal.

But the two things i don't understand:

1. i think Arsenal is not handling this situation very intelligent
2. i don't see what Xavi did wrong.
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Not really at you, I understand where you are coming from Gerd. I think we should sell him, but not just stop at where Barcelona want to buy him for. He is worth more.

I can't see how Arsenal are handling the situation Unintelligently? they are setting a price and waiting to see if Barca are willing to pay it? Arsene spoke out, but I think he has every right to, especially over the last few years of Barca players and staff speaking out all of the time about the situation.

The only unintelligent ones are Barca, because they haven't learned that this tactic doesn't work. It just makes Arsenal more resiliant to not selling him.


drekkard said:
That's a great post zio, as usual. Though I understand, that people get fustrated or pissed off with the club that wants to snap their best player. It's a natural and logical reaction.

What I don't understand is the victimism of talking about"making Arsenal the bad guys". I can't see anyone here that has implied that. I don't see where does this come from. I think there are no bad guys here, other than some punctual statements made last year by Laporta (and for political reasons).

I really don't see why Xavi has offended Arsenal, but at the same time Wilshere can say that Cesc has to "pove he's a man by staying". I mean, that's quite offensive in my oppinion towards Cesc as a human being. A lot more offensive than saying he's worth less than 40 M€ as a football player.
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first of all coming out and saying Cesc is suffering etc, isn't implying that Arsenal are keeping him against his will etc?

People saying that he has served Arsenal well, so we should let him leave...etc these things all imply that Arsenal are keeping him against his will and should let him leave, hence the bad guy thing.

I think Wilsheres comment was directed more at Nasri than Cesc, I think Wilshere said how loyal Cesc has been to Arsenal as an example of how players should act and be men. I don't think it was directed at Cesc at all (from what I remember reading).
 
Jack rectified that, his tweet said that Cesc is a role model for him as a player and a person, so how could he tell him to 'man up'?

However he spoke nothing about Nasri, which pretty much tells you at whom those comments were made :D
 
Worrying stuff from AW at the Chinese press conference- “I don’t think we are weak defensively but we are an offensive team,'' he said. “Sometimes that exposes our defenders a bit more than other teams.”

prob means no new signings in defence - most nervous I've ever been as an Arsenal supporter - especially as others around us are refreshing their squads
 
we have to buy defenders, at least one solid one. He has been looking if the reports are to be believed.

If he doesn't enhance the defence and we do shit next year he will be out of a job, the fans will see to that.

I just hope he does somethings before that, I'm sure he will......hopefully :CRY:
 
BobbyBox said:
we have to buy defenders, at least one solid one. He has been looking if the reports are to be believed.

If he doesn't enhance the defence and we do shit next year he will be out of a job, I will see to that.

I just hope he does somethings before that, I'm sure he will......hopefully :CRY:
Click to expand...


fixed:))

You will no doubt ask for his sacking if he does shit next season. everyone will:WORSHIP:
 
It depends, if Wenger has tried to right the wrongs and brought people in etc and we play really well all season and we are not too far off of the top, then I might be alright.

It is a bit silly saying if we don't win next season then I will go mental. Because there are at least 5 other teams that will be very strong next season and we don't have a right to win things.

But if the same things happen again, like doing well and then collapsing etc etc then of course Wenger will be sacked, or leave and we will have another manager in I think.

It all depends on how the team plays and what happens overall. But if the same things happen like they have done the last few years, then it might be time for a change :DD
 
I'm afraid we won't see much of a change, given Wenger's recent interviews. Those talks of "a young team can only get better" and "we have the money to spend, but we need to find the right players". For fucks sake, he sure as hell knows which positions need strengthening, nevermind the "right" players. Most anyone is more righteous than Gibbs. Or something. :P

He still honestly thinks that this current squad is capable of bouncing back! It's baffling really. In 2010 we finished 3rd, this year we finished 4th. I don't see this team only getting better. We're stuck in the same gear with our 2 best players wanting out.

Unless this disastrous scenario unfolds into something really encouraging (proper signings) I'd put my money on all of us be asking for monsieur Wenger's head by mid-April next year. Even you Bobby :)
 
Well I still think this team can beat any team on their day, but there is something wrong with the mentality of the team that disables it. This is what needs changing, but unless he gets them all hypnotised then I don't see anything changing.

If our team were strong mentally then I do think they can do very well. But they are not :))

I do think having a good stable keeper which I think Scez will be (but he is still young) and the return of Vermaelen will strengthen us alot. But we still haven't got a player to fill in for Song and we are realying on Gibbs who is injury prone and Traore who hasn't proved himself at all for the left back slot.

But if Arshavin ups his work rate and Walcott and van Persie can go through a season without long injuries, then I do think we can do really well.

It's tough, but if Arsene doesn't do much and we are at the top of the league in March, I will still be expecting it all to fall apart. I hope he proves us all wrong as I don't want to see him leave. But he isn't giving me much hope at the moment.
 
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