tc811
Resident Evo-Web Retard
It does sound more like Iniesta than Xavi now.
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Major upgrades completed! Please report any issues you spot in here
PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......
- Thread starter Jimmy G-Force
- Start date
It does sound more like Iniesta than Xavi now.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Isn't Iniesta on the cover and/or involved with Fifa?
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
So far pretty much everything has pointed to Ronaldo. It's all about whose face sells more really, Ronaldo is the only one that makes sense if you drop Messi.
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Team
- Luton Town
Yeah mate, you are right. Don't waste your time going online.
IN my last two games i've been noticing that many people use very odd formations as well...
People put like 6 players behind the line and when i go to attack there are like 10 men in defence line and my attackers are always behind them. Very hard or almost imposible to find space, then he gtes counter, pass to a fast winger and goal.
Cheap tatics, cheap goals and to make it even worse the game rewards second pressure noobs and high paced passing game. The result is: crap experience.
My last 3 games were exacltly like this. I won't play anymore as i also got sick of playing offline (boring AI).
Bye pes 2011, it was good untill it lasted. Some fun games, brilliant in some aspects but some other rustrating matchs (online) and awful in other aspects.
I'm waiting pes 2012 to be the game.
I'll admit that I'm increasingly getting pissed off with the way the game rewards bizarre formations. Even the offline AI uses them. It swings back and forth between 8 at the back and then goes the other way and shoves about six up front when it's losing, and it's really really hard to counteract it. That's a massive flaw in the fundamentals of the game. If anything, it should be the other way around - shove too many players in defence and you get pinned back, or you get hammered if you put everyone up front. Prior to this year I've never noticed Konami programming this before, so it's odd. Try pausing the game throughout a match and you'll see the AI changing to a variety of bizarre formations, mainly geared towards flooding it's final third of the field with players and leaving a hug gap in the middle of the field, perfect for spamming those long raking through balls to the front two.
I'm having success in ML mainly since I changed my player roles so that the wingers are virtually strikers themselves, and the AI can't, on occasion, cope with having so many attacking options. It's a major flaw in the game, and is really odd that the AI is programmed to choose odd formations like cheap online players 'working' the game's deficiencies. Konami should program the AI to cover up such problems, not exploit them! I hope so much that PES2012 will address this.
I also had the strangest experience of playing tonight and nothing, but nothing worked. I was constantly muscled off the ball, everything went wrong. Yet the other day, I actually scored two goals in a 2-0 win where the AI made two massive screw ups, the keeper did a terrible kick and presented me with an open goal, and a defender mis-kicked the ball for the second.
Sometimes the game lets you play great football, other times it's virtually impossible due to hulk-like and almost telepathic defending, and it's hard to not see this swing in play as Konami coding the game to do so in order to simulate that ebb and flow of real football. It's a good idea, one that needs refining for PES2012, but it's too obvious at the moment.
As for the DLC issue earlier, well, I don't buy the idea that FIFA's DLC would be better value because they already have the licences. I buy a game and judge it on gameplay not peripheral features, as nice as they are. So even if PES doesn't have licences etc, I'll still be happy for any extra stuff that comes our way so long as it's good.
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Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Team
- Luton Town
Oh and also, is it pretty much confirmed then that the release date being two weeks later in the UK than other parts of Europe is this news that will 'infuriate' PES fans? If so then great, it's so insignificant that it borders on barely being news at all 
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Add me on 360 too if you want good sportsmanship and a real attempt at playing football. GT - CalcioCalabrese
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Oh and also, is it pretty much confirmed then that the release date being two weeks later in the UK than other parts of Europe is this news that will 'infuriate' PES fans? If so then great, it's so insignificant that it borders on barely being news at all
Me too. I was expecting something like that before the 'warning' came out anyway.
It is silly that Konami try to screw up the UK release just to stop Europeans importing it - particularly when the whole BLES thing is their doing, and I forget why that was put in to begin with - but Japan used to get a new title a hell of a lot earlier than 2 weeks...
As for PES 2011, the online is a complete lottery for me. If the matches I get are laggy as he'll then it tends to stay like that for most of the day, sometimes improving after a few hours. But when it's good, it's pretty close to offline; when it's bad, absolutely nothing works. It's amazing how lag can completely kill your passing accuracy, first touch, ability to dribble with any finesse etc. It's nothing like the same game at all.
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gerd
Retired Footballer
In the official news thread Lami posted about the release date in the America's and in Brittain, but he did not mention continental Europe. Is it 29 september or 14 october in Europe?
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Australia seems to be 29 September also. I won't pre-order cause I know there will be a price war between two local vendors. They charge us $100 for new xbox games. What's the cost for 360 in America? The aussie dollar is very strong now. haha
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Team
- Liverpool
I was thinking about this, but could it be due to licensing issues? That maybe the licensing in the euro countries is actually a bit stricter and this is their way to combat the nearly "licensed" optionfiles coming out from the UK?
I'm pretty sure the bles stuff was before the pound was so low and importing was so cheap. Because really it won't make a huge difference, will it? Casuals won't know or care about it, so no sales lost there. And the hardcore will know about the cheaper games and optionfiles so will surely wait a couple of weeks....
The last video doesn't clarify if the tricks are also on rigth stick. It was a long battle this year with new tricks system and, now that I managed it, they're changing it again!!! Oh, come on, just let it be the same two years in a row, please
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
I think the week delay last year had very little effect - people just imported the UK version anyway because of the BLES.
I don't know if Euro licensing restrictions would be the reason - after all, it'd just take someone with the EU version to replicate the UK version and distribute it in the same way and all of Konami's effort to overcomplicate things would be dead in the water. If the EU version had a heavily restricte editor then that reasoning would seem to stack up. Of course that'd just boost UK exports even more...
Rod and I are meeting Adam tomorrow; I'll ask him why BLES is in there.
I've got Germany's release date on 29th. That's all the official source I can get. But I can assume if Germany is on 29th then most probably countries around it are the same too. It's just UK that is on the 14th.
EDIT: Just noticed shopto has it on 7th October...
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DuduBR9
Champions League
- 25 July 2010
LTFC
For me the biggest "cancer" of ALL football games online is the pressure. It's terrible in Fifa and also in Pes (but in pes not as much as fifa, but it's still a big problem).
Football games nowadays are just too arcadish on this aspect imho. It seems to me that there's no any punishment for those who are always sprinting and pressuring.
It's frustrates me how much better this could be if it was based on pes 2011 demo, but it's not. It amazes me is that in online matchs there are cleraly no punishment in any aspect, it's so cheap. There's clearly a huge advantage for those who presure (second pressure) the opponent full time. Tackling too easy, refs too lenient, players don't get tired fairly and individually etc and etc...
It's just a HORRIBLE aspect of every football game i played online. To make it even worse, the AI don't make any smart moves to deal with it properly (back fourth don't drop back, midielders don't get closes to ball carrier, don't go to safe positions, don't move to gaps etc and etc).
I'm done with football games online. They are poor, every one of them i ever played. Pes 2011 still is the best yet (i never played old pes's online), but it's more because Fifa is terrible, not because pes is that good. It could be that good, but it's not (however, i did have some very good matchs, i even beat some d2 players with a very modest team, and that felt really good, but then they cheat with disconection glitch and I don't get anything - money or points).
That's all I hope from pes 2012: defending becomes a real aspect of the game with high learning curve, and there are higk risk of constantly pressure)
For me the biggest "cancer" of ALL football games online is the pressure. It's terrible in Fifa and also in Pes (but in pes not as much as fifa, but it's still a big problem).
Football games nowadays are just too arcadish on this aspect imho. It seems to me that there's no any punishment for those who are always sprinting and pressuring.
It's frustrates me how much better this could be if it was based on pes 2011 demo, but it's not. It amazes me is that in online matchs there are cleraly no punishment in any aspect, it's so cheap. There's clearly a huge advantage for those who presure (second pressure) the opponent full time. Tackling too easy, refs too lenient, players don't get tired fairly and individually etc and etc...
It's just a HORRIBLE aspect of every football game i played online. To make it even worse, the AI don't make any smart moves to deal with it properly (back fourth don't drop back, midielders don't get closes to ball carrier, don't go to safe positions, don't move to gaps etc and etc).
I'm done with football games online. They are poor, every one of them i ever played. Pes 2011 still is the best yet (i never played old pes's online), but it's more because Fifa is terrible, not because pes is that good. It could be that good, but it's not (however, i did have some very good matchs, i even beat some d2 players with a very modest team, and that felt really good, but then they cheat with disconection glitch and I don't get anything - money or points).
That's all I hope from pes 2012: defending becomes a real aspect of the game with high learning curve, and there are higk risk of constantly pressure)
Enzo
International
Let the online part mature with time, ML for me all the way, especially with improved AI
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- Team
- SSC Napoli
there is one thing to add to achieve that
New realistic stamina system
in real life when players pressure the whole first half of a match in second half they are exhausted,while in Pes there's only a slight difference between first and second half
i suggest Konami to calculate stamina loss based on the percent of the first half played on pressure. For example if someone has played pressuring like a crazy the first half, the players should all be with red or empty stamina at the beginning of the second half
this would solve the problem of the crazy fast pace of a match and the problem of constant pressuring
i fear pes 2012 will still be a pressure game online, even if i hope Konami at least improves the broken pes 2011 stamina system
gerd
Retired Footballer
Thanks Lami...but now you are confusing me again.
I guess that shopto dat is for the UK???
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
It's an entirely appropriate use of the word. It's not just used for the medical context.
Ern Dog
Championship
- 23 October 2009
Yes pressure ruins the game and there is a simple solution, but I fear we will never see a real stamina system as it would ruin the game forthe masses that play with their fingers glued to r1. It seems to me that konami aretrying towalk the fine line between sim andarcade, for obvious reasons. The problem with this approach is that no one is ever fully happy with the game.
I found the best way to deal with the pressure whores is to never touch the sprint button, this way you can make quicker turns to avoid the oncoming player/s. When I began playing the game again this week I could not get a single shot off for about 5 games, every time I got near the box 3 players would swarm me and take the ball. The completely broken tackling does not help either.
I found the best way to deal with the pressure whores is to never touch the sprint button, this way you can make quicker turns to avoid the oncoming player/s. When I began playing the game again this week I could not get a single shot off for about 5 games, every time I got near the box 3 players would swarm me and take the ball. The completely broken tackling does not help either.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
No it's not. As someone who's had cancer I hate to see the word used flippantly.
bonyi
League 1
Fully agree.
I think PES6 had this and it was awesome. After beeing down on an important match 0:2 in the first half, there were no other chance than pressuring. It resulted extreme stamina drop on the whole team around the 70-75 minutes mark.
The accumulated fatigue was great as well. I remember loosing the WC final against Spain with Czech Republic, after two extra time wins in the quater and semi finals against Brazil and Italy. The team was fully exhausted. Relistic.
Great times. Make it return KONAMI.
Andy
Evoweb Jester/Stadboardmaker.
I agree Jamez, being as i have lost 2 family members to it. I dont think anyone intended to offend but a better choice of word would be better.
Anyway this 2 week wait for the uk might not be too bad, because by then we will have a good idea as to wether Konami have truly delivered a great game and also if the demo is great we can be assured that the full game is the same unlike last year. Konami in doing this better make sure the game lives up to the hype otherwise they could end up with egg on their faces.
Pere Ubu
Championship
- 29 October 2002
It is an appropriate use of the word "cancer" in the sense that it's a common figure of speech, but I agree, it's not a word I like to see very often in any context.
The thing with the pressure... Konami spend all this time working on stuff for "one-on-one situations" - there ARE no one-on-one situations in PES2011, only four-on-one. I remember before the patch, you did get one-on-ones offline, where you and the defender could stand still facing each other - you'd do a stepover and slip away, looked great and was brilliant fun. Unfortunately, because the way it was coded was fairly primitive (the CPU defence stood off you when you weren't running) it led to the "green zone bug". So of course, Konami patched it in a hurry and their only solution was to bring in massed 100mph pressure in the opposition half. Didn't quite ruin the game, especially as AI pressure was perhaps a bit loose before that, but it made it much more frustrating and less realistic.
Online it's obviously much worse (even in PEEL a lot of people defend like that) because it's easy and there's no punishment. Personally I hate doing it - I have compactness set to wide and pressing low, spread my defence out and track players individually - but I'm not rewarded for that by the game, quite the opposite. If I just held down X and square all the time and didn't even look at the screen, I'm sure my players would do a better job of snuffing out attacks. If you just do that all the time, and when you win the ball back immediately hit a long through ball, play a one-two with the receiving player and then another through ball in on goal, you'll win far more games than you lose. PES gives you all this amazing freedom to do great stuff on the ball, then leaves in nooby tactics which totally snuff that out and hand the advantage to anyone who's prepared to play cheaply (even on Top Player). So - surprise surprise, almost everyone does. The fact that they've brought in all this new one-on-one stuff, but there hasn't been a word about pressure or stamina changes, makes me wonder if Konami even realise this is a problem. If nothing's changed with the pressing situation, the stuff they announced so proudly in yesterday's video may as well not be there.
Anyway, the point is, I'm not sure that just tweaking the stamina system would fix this. Because if you look closely you'll see that pressing is not affected by low stamina. Even when the team are all exhausted, they can still sprint-press until the final whistle... what's affected is stuff like ball control. So as the game goes on and the players get tired (with the team who've played at walking pace just as tired as the team who've sprint-pressed for 90 minutes), the pressure noobs actually find their advantage increased, because the man with the ball being pressed by 4 robots will find it harder and harder to escape the press.
The only way to change this is to alter second (and third, and fourth, and fifth) player pressure so that only two or at the very most three players respond to it. At the moment you hold down square and before the man on the ball has time to turn his body, there are four men standing round him in a circle, leaving him absolutely no options. What you want is for two men to press him, maybe with a third standing off, so a skilful player can turn or pass his way out through the gap. You also need teammates to run into the space left by those pressing defenders, to receive the ball (at the moment the gaps left by mass-pressing don't mean a thing because your teammates are too dumb to exploit them - often you'll be surrounded by defenders and your nearest teammate is 20 yards away, being marked). Then you need a proper stamina system which means that in the last 25 minutes of the game the pressing team are completely shattered, press much less strongly, and run more slowly than the team who've spent the game dominating possession, making it far more likely that they'll ship goals. You also need a ref who understands that running into a player's back without touching the ball, so he stumbles and allows you to take possession, is a FUCKING FOUL.
We're supposed to be getting the second of these things in PES2012, there's a small chance we'll get the third and fourth. Will we get the first? I doubt it, but you never know. Point is, Konami need to look at this seriously and not just plaster on a quick fix... if indeed they're aware that it's a problem in the first place.
The thing with the pressure... Konami spend all this time working on stuff for "one-on-one situations" - there ARE no one-on-one situations in PES2011, only four-on-one. I remember before the patch, you did get one-on-ones offline, where you and the defender could stand still facing each other - you'd do a stepover and slip away, looked great and was brilliant fun. Unfortunately, because the way it was coded was fairly primitive (the CPU defence stood off you when you weren't running) it led to the "green zone bug". So of course, Konami patched it in a hurry and their only solution was to bring in massed 100mph pressure in the opposition half. Didn't quite ruin the game, especially as AI pressure was perhaps a bit loose before that, but it made it much more frustrating and less realistic.
Online it's obviously much worse (even in PEEL a lot of people defend like that) because it's easy and there's no punishment. Personally I hate doing it - I have compactness set to wide and pressing low, spread my defence out and track players individually - but I'm not rewarded for that by the game, quite the opposite. If I just held down X and square all the time and didn't even look at the screen, I'm sure my players would do a better job of snuffing out attacks. If you just do that all the time, and when you win the ball back immediately hit a long through ball, play a one-two with the receiving player and then another through ball in on goal, you'll win far more games than you lose. PES gives you all this amazing freedom to do great stuff on the ball, then leaves in nooby tactics which totally snuff that out and hand the advantage to anyone who's prepared to play cheaply (even on Top Player). So - surprise surprise, almost everyone does. The fact that they've brought in all this new one-on-one stuff, but there hasn't been a word about pressure or stamina changes, makes me wonder if Konami even realise this is a problem. If nothing's changed with the pressing situation, the stuff they announced so proudly in yesterday's video may as well not be there.
Anyway, the point is, I'm not sure that just tweaking the stamina system would fix this. Because if you look closely you'll see that pressing is not affected by low stamina. Even when the team are all exhausted, they can still sprint-press until the final whistle... what's affected is stuff like ball control. So as the game goes on and the players get tired (with the team who've played at walking pace just as tired as the team who've sprint-pressed for 90 minutes), the pressure noobs actually find their advantage increased, because the man with the ball being pressed by 4 robots will find it harder and harder to escape the press.
The only way to change this is to alter second (and third, and fourth, and fifth) player pressure so that only two or at the very most three players respond to it. At the moment you hold down square and before the man on the ball has time to turn his body, there are four men standing round him in a circle, leaving him absolutely no options. What you want is for two men to press him, maybe with a third standing off, so a skilful player can turn or pass his way out through the gap. You also need teammates to run into the space left by those pressing defenders, to receive the ball (at the moment the gaps left by mass-pressing don't mean a thing because your teammates are too dumb to exploit them - often you'll be surrounded by defenders and your nearest teammate is 20 yards away, being marked). Then you need a proper stamina system which means that in the last 25 minutes of the game the pressing team are completely shattered, press much less strongly, and run more slowly than the team who've spent the game dominating possession, making it far more likely that they'll ship goals. You also need a ref who understands that running into a player's back without touching the ball, so he stumbles and allows you to take possession, is a FUCKING FOUL.
We're supposed to be getting the second of these things in PES2012, there's a small chance we'll get the third and fourth. Will we get the first? I doubt it, but you never know. Point is, Konami need to look at this seriously and not just plaster on a quick fix... if indeed they're aware that it's a problem in the first place.
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romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
It is a correct use of the word in its non-medical context.
I was hastily using hyperbole when I said it's entirely appropriate - it isn't appropriate to an audience who are sensitive to its meaning as a disease, and it is a bit clumsy to use it where you don't know people's experiences of it. But obviously that's a subjective thing - I've known people who have beaten it and I've lost close family members to it myself but I'm not offended by its use in other contexts unless that was its intention. Of course I can see why someone who has been directly affected by it would rather not see it be used - but to my mind it's something to ask people to avoid, rather than something that is by default inappropriate. It's part of language because it affects everyone directly or otherwise, and so becomes more broadly used than for just extreme cases or for reference to the disease itself. Though I appreciate that's your point.
Glad that's in the past tense btw Jamez.
I was hastily using hyperbole when I said it's entirely appropriate - it isn't appropriate to an audience who are sensitive to its meaning as a disease, and it is a bit clumsy to use it where you don't know people's experiences of it. But obviously that's a subjective thing - I've known people who have beaten it and I've lost close family members to it myself but I'm not offended by its use in other contexts unless that was its intention. Of course I can see why someone who has been directly affected by it would rather not see it be used - but to my mind it's something to ask people to avoid, rather than something that is by default inappropriate. It's part of language because it affects everyone directly or otherwise, and so becomes more broadly used than for just extreme cases or for reference to the disease itself. Though I appreciate that's your point.
Glad that's in the past tense btw Jamez.
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zeemeister
foxy engine
I honestly believ the time has come to introduce Sliders or differential difficulty settings to PES and Fifa for that matter.
So for beginner you would have assisted passing, no stamina, no fatigue, lenient refs
For experienced the passing assitance is lowered, stamina plays a minimal role as does fatigue and refs that will allow things to happen to a degree so there'll still be pressure
For the hardest difficulty they have to really amp it up.
- A full stamina system so sprinting for 100m will require a recovery period - stat based of course
- A fully fledged fatigue system so if a player has been covering large areas he must feel the heat before half time or towards the end of the match again stat based
- pressuring should be handled a like the PES 2011 demo and cards brandished for repeated offence
Just a few ideas but the inherent stat based outcomes must still be the deciding factor or they can just put sliders for
Stamina
Fatigue
Ref leniency
Passing assitance
Player switching
So for beginner you would have assisted passing, no stamina, no fatigue, lenient refs
For experienced the passing assitance is lowered, stamina plays a minimal role as does fatigue and refs that will allow things to happen to a degree so there'll still be pressure
For the hardest difficulty they have to really amp it up.
- A full stamina system so sprinting for 100m will require a recovery period - stat based of course
- A fully fledged fatigue system so if a player has been covering large areas he must feel the heat before half time or towards the end of the match again stat based
- pressuring should be handled a like the PES 2011 demo and cards brandished for repeated offence
Just a few ideas but the inherent stat based outcomes must still be the deciding factor or they can just put sliders for
Stamina
Fatigue
Ref leniency
Passing assitance
Player switching
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
mr_man
League 1
- 20 October 2008
Pro Evolution Soccer 2012 Video Game, One On One Improvements HD | Video Clip | Game Trailers & Videos | GameTrailers.com
Posted on GT, here comes the backlash, brace yourselves.
Most are American I assume so par for the course...
Posted on GT, here comes the backlash, brace yourselves.
Most are American I assume so par for the course...
Thespeedster84
Champions League
- 4 October 2010
IMO, about Pressure thing.. i'd like to see in the future
1. Left Stick sensitivity
Konami should have at least walking, jogging, running pace both for with/without the ball.
2. Only jockeying modifier button exist
Combine with point 1, you get the freedom in defending.
3. No manual 2nd team mate pressure button
No continuously manual team mate pressure by keeping square button pressed. Instead, you we can use following route :
3.1 By tapping square once, our closer team mate will help pressure, tapping it again will release. or
3.2 By using analoque to highlight 2nd team mate and tap a shoulder button e.g R2 to call for 2nd pressure. tap again to release.
4. No pressure button
You can't just press x and the game will help you to "semiautomatically" go to a dribbler direction.
5. Of course stamina
Proper stamina calculation /system will tell you to think using " 2nd player pressure call "
6. Late movement timing
For example, when an attacker move a bit to the right, your 2nd player will react milisecond late then the attacker. a defending attribute can also put into this to expand a defender individuality. But it should always move late.
Note : in current Off the ball control video, a defender is almost moving at the same time an 2nd controlled player is being moved.
They make him move late by the time a passing/throw in button is pressed. Not that good imo.7. Player Speed/acceleration/somthing related
Combine it win previous 6 point. Yes, c. ronaldo should run faster than julio cesar. The stamina and dribbling system that will make the balance for it. Not the "rubber band" technology, lol. The current system (PES 2011) for a defender to catch an attacker is quite ignorant short cut method.
Many simple routes could be said/suggested but could be hard in programming/ animation tech ? Since we need almost to complete freedom (nothing to do with complete 360 deg movement). 32 directions would suffice i guess and it is already a lot.
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klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
This talk about stamina, If anyone played the absolutely terrible FIFA 09 on PC (PS2 game basically) It had a stamina system where if the players stamina was depleted to the orange gauge. he was, well absolutely fucking useless! Personally i kinda liked it but my god did people moan and say it was broken.
I would love to see a proper fatigue system in PES. Problem is there so many of these naive fans who always complain ad keep shouting every now and again. OMG PLAYERS CAN LAST LOADS OF GAMES WITHOUT BEING TIRED!!! that's my worry
The key thing The absolute key thing is! NOT to be cheap and taking away the ability to madly pressure. Everyone here has seen why Barca is so successful, it's because they pressure like a pack of hyenas on crack off the ball. They have i think a 3 second rule where a player must be closed down at least 3 seconds after they have the ball, or something like that. Mad pressure is not bad, just like Money is not evil. It's how it's used!
What IS bad! What IS the problem! Is people mad pressuring and being able to play kick and rush, quick counter attacking football which is impossible to do for 90 minutes! At the most I'd say about one half of a game doing that maybe, just maybe possible! Even if you had 99 for stamina and tenacity you will be fucking knackered by the 50 minute or so with that tactic.
Mad pressure needs to be forced on players to be used ONLY it in a tactical way, not just with stamina, but tackling really requiring skill. If you play with Barca, you going to have to work the ball around SLOWLY so you don't lose the ball that much for starters and even if you use it correctly you still be tired by the 80th minute. If you playing at a normal tempo or fast tempo, you have to really watch your players how you pressure and sprint with them, so they don't tire and leave you in a whole world of shit with 20 minutes to go when they can barley walk.
Thing is we have to remember i want players to have to think and really use the player individuality when defending and tackling. One of a favorite players and one of the most impressive players in last years World Cup and had a good Copa America is Diego Perez. Not a talented player at all. But a very honest, committed consistent tough tackler who actually pretty quick and i tell you, he can run for days! He's a solider. I'd also say Uruguay are probably one of the most durable nations stamina wise since others like Gargano for example again can run all day and night. What i want to see is players only pressuring with those who have a high stamina rate. If they are stupid and pressure madly with someone like Loderio and especially someone with poor stamina like Ozil not only will the get him sent off because he can't tackle for shit, but they tire him out easily.
So if I'm playing against someone using Uruguay. I only want to see him pressuring with a certain 2-3 players, while still using those players and the rest in a very sensible manner positioning wise.
This can be easily done for 15 minute matches and above. Problem we have to look at for online at 10 minute games, i just think it's going to be almost impossible to play like Barca, conserving possession and probing will take up most of the half. :|
So, to summarize. Stamina needs a overhaul. Pressure needs to be tactical, and used only by the individuals with high stamina off the ball. It needs to be used tactically so you can't have your cake and eat it by playing with the ball quickly and mad pressuring when using it, you need to balance your tactics so you don't tire your players out. If you want to do a Barca and keep loads of possession then pressure. you need to really think about if your good enough to pull it off and if it's worth it or not. This will definitely make people think twice about putting together dream teams!
I would love to see a proper fatigue system in PES. Problem is there so many of these naive fans who always complain ad keep shouting every now and again. OMG PLAYERS CAN LAST LOADS OF GAMES WITHOUT BEING TIRED!!! that's my worry
The key thing The absolute key thing is! NOT to be cheap and taking away the ability to madly pressure. Everyone here has seen why Barca is so successful, it's because they pressure like a pack of hyenas on crack off the ball. They have i think a 3 second rule where a player must be closed down at least 3 seconds after they have the ball, or something like that. Mad pressure is not bad, just like Money is not evil. It's how it's used!
What IS bad! What IS the problem! Is people mad pressuring and being able to play kick and rush, quick counter attacking football which is impossible to do for 90 minutes! At the most I'd say about one half of a game doing that maybe, just maybe possible! Even if you had 99 for stamina and tenacity you will be fucking knackered by the 50 minute or so with that tactic.
Mad pressure needs to be forced on players to be used ONLY it in a tactical way, not just with stamina, but tackling really requiring skill. If you play with Barca, you going to have to work the ball around SLOWLY so you don't lose the ball that much for starters and even if you use it correctly you still be tired by the 80th minute. If you playing at a normal tempo or fast tempo, you have to really watch your players how you pressure and sprint with them, so they don't tire and leave you in a whole world of shit with 20 minutes to go when they can barley walk.
Thing is we have to remember i want players to have to think and really use the player individuality when defending and tackling. One of a favorite players and one of the most impressive players in last years World Cup and had a good Copa America is Diego Perez. Not a talented player at all. But a very honest, committed consistent tough tackler who actually pretty quick and i tell you, he can run for days! He's a solider. I'd also say Uruguay are probably one of the most durable nations stamina wise since others like Gargano for example again can run all day and night. What i want to see is players only pressuring with those who have a high stamina rate. If they are stupid and pressure madly with someone like Loderio and especially someone with poor stamina like Ozil not only will the get him sent off because he can't tackle for shit, but they tire him out easily.
So if I'm playing against someone using Uruguay. I only want to see him pressuring with a certain 2-3 players, while still using those players and the rest in a very sensible manner positioning wise.
This can be easily done for 15 minute matches and above. Problem we have to look at for online at 10 minute games, i just think it's going to be almost impossible to play like Barca, conserving possession and probing will take up most of the half. :|
So, to summarize. Stamina needs a overhaul. Pressure needs to be tactical, and used only by the individuals with high stamina off the ball. It needs to be used tactically so you can't have your cake and eat it by playing with the ball quickly and mad pressuring when using it, you need to balance your tactics so you don't tire your players out. If you want to do a Barca and keep loads of possession then pressure. you need to really think about if your good enough to pull it off and if it's worth it or not. This will definitely make people think twice about putting together dream teams!
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