PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Someone here mentioned players with low stats should turn very slowly. That is one thing I don't think is true if we want a sim. Real people who are fit, for example footballers, do not turn slowly. You have ones ranging from normal turning speeds to very quick, but even them normal turning speeds are quicker than your average man because they're fit.

So, what should be done then? We don't want every footballer on the field acting a Messi right? The answer to this is, ball control, technique, and confidence thrown in the mix to a degree, specially when the adrenaline rush kicks in, or whatever that feeling is. This should be the main difference between players. Get someone like Vidic, he can turn quicker than your average man because he's fit, but his ball control would fail him and lose possession easily.
 
Re: pressuring when defending

I never hold down square to get other players to press, on pes2010 I used this at first but it would pull my team all out of shape and so it became something I just don't do out of habit. I can still press highly effectively though, the method I use is using supercancel very often and R1 to then move my controlled player towards the opponent in possession. It works very well by not allowing him freedom to take his time and pass/dribble
Sometimes I miss him or let him slip through and then I have to then do the same with the next player behind.

Some people complain that others don't let them play or have space on the ball, but I see nothing wrong whatsoever with defending by the method I described, that's what happens in real football too. If you come up against me then you are going to have defender in your face most of the time, it's your job to beat him, do that and ur through on goal :)
 
Most of the problems with pressure would go away if there were a realistic stamina/fatigue-system built in PES 2012. Then teams that press all the time with three or more players on one would have a big disadvantage in the last third of the game.

I think such insane pressure should be possible, Barcelona in reality is all about constant pressure and they don't get tired of this (strange really), but other teams should...

The other problem with PES 2011 is the passing-accuracy... we all know how Barcelona is able to pass the ball through dozens of stations with one-touch-passing (tiki-taka-style) but most of other teams can't do that and yet I can do it with most teams in PES 2011.

Another problem are the rails, when a teammember reacts to something and the cursor switches to him, you expect to be in full control but you are not, he runs on some rail and it takes a lot of intervention to leave that rail and sometimes it's not possible... super-cancel is not the solution cause then he loses all his drive and stops for a second until you direct him again... the rails unfortunately are very straight and don't adapt leading to the player on the player arriving just a little behind where he should be and where he would be in real life-situations.

I hope that in PES 2012 when the cursor jumps onto the teammember who was just reacting to something that in the moment the cursor is on the teammember we get full control of him and his path without losing the drive and momentum he had and without that one-second-stopping supercancel causes... oh and that the rails before the cursor is on him are not straight lines but rather adaptive curves.
 
Guys - i posted a couple of gameplay video's from PES 11 from some online league I play. If you're bored, check it out.

Also - I noticed you can get some nice swerve on the ball in the FIFA World Cup game. I'm using manual shooting. Now, THIS is the kind of realistic ball movement I want to see on PES 12.

YouTube - Swerve shots FIFA WC 2010

Not sure if it's going to move like this, or dip, curl etc. Please Konami please haha
 
henrys hand said:
I think such insane pressure should be possible, Barcelona in reality is all about constant pressure and they don't get tired of this (strange really), but other teams should...
Click to expand...

Barca have possession of the ball for the vast majority of the match, they are not constantly running round like headless chickens closing people down. They do tire though, did you not see the 2 Champions League matches against Arsenal at the Emirates? They were knackered in both 2nd halves and it allowed Arsenal to come back and draw one match and win the other.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Also - I noticed you can get some nice swerve on the ball in the FIFA World Cup game. I'm using manual shooting. Now, THIS is the kind of realistic ball movement I want to see on PES 12.
Click to expand...

Those ball physics look really good.

I seen that WC2010 game for £4.50 and was thinking about getting it, is it worth it? After playing PES2011 for the last week(first time since xmas) I am already fed up with it and would like a new football game until the 2012 demos are out.
 
Yeah I really enjoyed WC2010, got a lot of play time out of the online since you can attempt to take a smallish nation to World Cup glory. Closest I came was finishing as runners-up with The Congo.

Much prefer it to FIFA 11
 
Ern Dog said:
Those ball physics look really good.

I seen that WC2010 game for £4.50 and was thinking about getting it, is it worth it? After playing PES2011 for the last week(first time since xmas) I am already fed up with it and would like a new football game until the 2012 demos are out.
Click to expand...

Yeah at 4.50 It's well worth it, it's far more fun than FIFA11. My favourite FIFA I've played actually.

I'm really looking forward to the PES2012 demo now though, can't wait!
 
Building a new and realistic fatigue system would surely make a huge difference. But imo that's not enough. We need refs to be fixed as well. They are very bad in pes 2011 full game compared to the demo. Tackling from behind almost has no difference from tackling in front or from both sides of the ball carrier.

It's all about logic. Charging a player from behind and then tackling him has a much more possibility of resulting in a foul, and the refs need to be fair and logic (therefore realistic) to interpret these situations. Collisions physics also need to be improved to detect whether it's a foul or not.

Jockying button needs to be a good and important tool to time your tackles right. How will the game provide these One on One situatios showed on the video if these things are not re-worked on the game ?

My main concern still is human vs human gameplay and how balanced the game will be. The game needs to tone down effectiveness of this noob's defending style and provide other styles. Atm i feel i am in huge desavantage for not playing like people do. I like covering space in jockey pace and just go for a challange when it's really needed or when it's possible to win the ball and get a counter attack. But i'm in huge desavantage for doing this.

I know that the new AI teammates support and all the flow of the new passing game will allow us to deal with pressure easier, and thank God they removed that crap stumbling animations and improved a lot the driblling and players control on the ball, but all these things we have been talking about must be added to the game.

Konami NEED to read this forum. We just want a fair and realistic game that provide good balance in tatics in human vs human gameplay. Stop making blinde pressure a so effective way of defending.
 
Last edited:
DuduBR9 said:
Building a new and realistic fatigue system would surely make a huge difference. But imo that's not enough. We need refs to be fixed as well. They are very bad in pes 2011 full game compared to the demo. Tackling from behind almost has no difference from tackling in front or from both sides of the ball carrier.

It's all about logic. Charging a player from behind and then tackling him has a much more possibility of resulting in a foul, and the refs need to be fair and logic (therefore realistic) to interpret these situations. Collisions physics also need to be improved to detect whether it's a foul or not.

Jockying button needs to be a good and important tool to time your tackles right. How will the game provide these One on One situatios showed on the video if these things are not re-worked on the game ?

My main concern still is human vs human gameplay and how balanced the game will be. The game needs to tone down effectiveness of this noob's defending style and provide other styles. Atm i feel i am in huge desavantage for not playing like people do. I like covering space in jockey pace and just go for a challange when it's really needed or when it's possible to win the ball and get a counter attack. But i'm in huge desavantage for doing this.

I know that the new AI teammates support and all the flow of the new passing game will allow us to deal with pressure easier, and thank God they removed that crap stumbling animations and improved a lot the driblling and players control on the ball, but all these things we have been talking about must be added to the game.

Konami NEED to read this forum. We just want a fair and realistic game that provide good balance in tatics in human vs human gameplay. Stop making blinde pressure a so effective way of defending.
Click to expand...


Well, i hope they never read it or else there´s a high risk of they give up making the game for next year... most people here only complain and are never satisfy, that should really discourage a game producer.

I know we have to make constructive critics so they try to make a better product, but some people in this forum goes to far. Saying that the AI or animations in PES5 or PES6 are better than in PES2011 is simply too much for me.

PES2011 sure have problems but i´m still playing it almost after a year after the release, that´s much more than any other game i have, it´s not a perfect game (and will never be) but i am very satisfied with it.
 
henrys hand said:
Most of the problems with pressure would go away if there were a realistic stamina/fatigue-system built in PES 2012. Then teams that press all the time with three or more players on one would have a big disadvantage in the last third of the game.

I think such insane pressure should be possible, Barcelona in reality is all about constant pressure and they don't get tired of this (strange really), but other teams should...

The other problem with PES 2011 is the passing-accuracy... we all know how Barcelona is able to pass the ball through dozens of stations with one-touch-passing (tiki-taka-style) but most of other teams can't do that and yet I can do it with most teams in PES 2011.

Another problem are the rails, when a teammember reacts to something and the cursor switches to him, you expect to be in full control but you are not, he runs on some rail and it takes a lot of intervention to leave that rail and sometimes it's not possible... super-cancel is not the solution cause then he loses all his drive and stops for a second until you direct him again... the rails unfortunately are very straight and don't adapt leading to the player on the player arriving just a little behind where he should be and where he would be in real life-situations.

I hope that in PES 2012 when the cursor jumps onto the teammember who was just reacting to something that in the moment the cursor is on the teammember we get full control of him and his path without losing the drive and momentum he had and without that one-second-stopping supercancel causes... oh and that the rails before the cursor is on him are not straight lines but rather adaptive curves.
Click to expand...

The passing football they play is what allows them to retain a lot of energy and therefore release that energy when it comes to retrieving the ball.They have found a great balance between attacking and defending.As crazy as it sounds, when they're passing the ball around, Barca are not wasting their energy like a typical team would do.
That level of complexity would be incredibly difficult to replicate through programming.
 
kouroux said:
The passing football they play is what allows them to retain a lot of energy and therefore release that energy when it comes to retrieving the ball.They have found a great balance between attacking and defending.As crazy as it sounds, when they're passing the ball around, Barca are not wasting their energy like a typical team would do.
That level of complexity would be incredibly difficult to replicate through programming.
Click to expand...

Totally disagree, look at this video and see how little the players actually move when they are passing around. Its not really until they are around the final thrid that they break out of a jog.

YouTube - Barca


All you would have to do is have stamina decrease more when sprinting than when jogging, I dont see anything complex about it, maybe I am missing something?
 
Beautiful, notice how the play changes depending on the defense. If a player guesses one way, Barca pushes it the other, if the options are closed forward, the logical man is available behind the ball to restart the rotation. So simple, yet so difficult. You need players of fantastic ball control and a system where you can exploit this. Ace video mate, so few PES players in lobby emulate this football.

I have never played with Barca in any PES, only in 2v2 but my partner is usually a sprint whore (hence HIM picking Barca, but if I did I'd play like that, string 40 passes if I can, have 80% posession.
 
Ern Dog said:
Totally disagree, look at this video and see how little the players actually move when they are passing around. Its not really until they are around the final thrid that they break out of a jog.

YouTube - Barca


All you would have to do is have stamina decrease more when sprinting than when jogging, I dont see anything complex about it, maybe I am missing something?
Click to expand...

Not realistic, manuel pass is a must :P
 
I hope the downtime on pesfan.com has something to do with pes 2012 somehow incorporating online with pesfan where stats etc are stored. This way online becomes a much better experience and will it benefit the community if there are lot's of option for challenges, arranging tournaments, report cheaters etc.
 
Not even a sentence? Can you do us a solid and give us an Adam-style teaser? Jon Murphy said PES 2012's gameplay will smash FIFA's.
 
I'd be happy to see improved shooting physics and more fluid animations/responsiveness. If this is evident and improved enough from PES 11, it should be enough to uncover the potential that PES 2011 had and sometimes well and truly showed.
 
tc811 said:
Not even a sentence? Can you do us a solid and give us an Adam-style teaser? Jon Murphy said PES 2012's gameplay will smash FIFA's.
Click to expand...

I twat (past tense of tweet?) that I "played till 2am after a 7am start and an agonising 6hr train ride...".

I'd love to talk, and see what others feel after letting things sink in. But I can't yet. Not least cos I've got far too many scribbled notes from the train ride home and no real order to it! That'll teach me to try and go through the Q&A thread. I'll probably look to answer some of the Q's in there but not all because I didn't have the list in front of me as I played. Once Lami's played it he'll be able to answer the others with more confidence.
 
romagnoli said:
I twat (past tense of tweet?) that I "played till 2am after a 7am start and an agonising 6hr train ride...".

I'd love to talk, and see what others feel after letting things sink in. But I can't yet. Not least cos I've got far too many scribbled notes from the train ride home and no real order to it! That'll teach me to try and go through the Q&A thread. I'll probably look to answer some of the Q's in there but not all because I didn't have the list in front of me as I played. Once Lami's played it he'll be able to answer the others with more confidence.
Click to expand...

i read your tweet, and when darthkebab asked you if it was impressive you answered with that tweet
i want to be cautious and maybe i'm misunderstanding but this seems like a definite "Yes"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom