PES 2009 General Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA TALK OR POLITICAL CHAT)

[Lami]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

I'm interested in what Wertungstendenz means with the 90% underneath it.

"valuation tendency"

 

[Yak]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Can anybody please translate the red-box on the bottom right? It says something about PES 2009 vs FIFA09 regarding gameplay. Thanks.

My translation of the text in the red box

"The konami counter against Fifa 09 is succesfull: sure they dind´t reinvent the “PES wheel”, but they tuned the gameplay with fine new features. Especially the control doesn´t behave as slow as the version from last year. On top of that the new manual control convinced me (won me over). Playing together with the extremely agressiv and smart acting AI also made a lot of fun and simulate the teamfeeling (“playing together with a team”) even without real human being really well. nevertheless I find it disapointing, that the conventional manual control got kicked out, atleast for the the early version we played. Technically PES 2009 already makes everything correct (offline) and let us easily forget the unfinished PS3 debut. I hope for an Online mode which is also technically good, because in terms of gameplay PES 2009 is already the measurement for all Football simulations."

by the way I´m not 100% german but I learned german since I was five.. so trust me on tha

 

[Yak]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

I'm interested in what Wertungstendenz means with the 90% underneath it.

valuation tendency something between 85% and 95%

another thing I missed out...

underneath the second pic were it says:
"Zieh ab! Dank der überarbeiteten Schusstechniken flattern Weitschüsse nun seltener ins Ziel"

Translation
"Shoot! Thanks to the reworked shooting technique long shoots don´t hit the target so often as before."

 

[Lami]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Thank you very much Yak

 

[Badgerman]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

So in all honesty this game is sounding as if it's well beyond the, albeit somewhat limited, expectations of this here website.

Good.

 

[jonestm]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

valuation tendency something between 85% and 95%

another thing I missed out...

underneath the second pic were it says:
"Zieh ab! Dank der überarbeiteten Schusstechniken flattern Weitschüsse nun seltener ins Ziel"

Translation
"Shoot! Thanks to the reworked shooting technique long shoots don´t hit the target so often as before."

Yes!
Long shots have been too easy since PES6, that's great news.
All the info sounds too good to be true really

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

My interpretation of the trailor:

*The start-stop movement
Looked a little silly. Footballers don't tend to just suddenly stand still, or stand still at all for that matter.

*The chipped pass
Seemed very floaty and very straight. For me the defending player had ample time to get in front and head clear.

*The through ball
Looked accurate, good pace on the ball and a bit of curl as to be expected. Can't fault this.

*The cross
Again, very floaty.

*The header
Good animation but it seemed not to have to much power but then rebounds off the crossbar with great speed. Looked very unrealistic.

Most likely because of perspective. The ball is traveling more along the "viewing axis" of the camera after the header, but changes direction to a path almost perpendicular after it hits the bar, which means the ball seems to travel alot faster. Also, you need to keep in mind that the ball could actually potentially gain some speed after it hits the bar, since the ball would compress and bounce off the bar, and also be pulled by gravity downwards. Since gravity after the bar hit would be pulling the ball in almost the exact same direction as it was naturally travelling after the bar hit (straight down), it would lead to the ball getting alot of speed, most likely actually faster than the speed it was travelling at prior to the bar hit..

*The Goalkeeper's Dive
I hope they sped up the video here because apart from the dive not making much sense he seems to rise and fall awfully quickly.

Agreed, I hate many of the goalkeeper animations in PES2008, and they still have that one in there. WHat I dislike the most is how the jump is so uneven, either they just do the animation really fast and appear to have too much gravity pulling on them, or they first float too much, then suddenly start moving downwards in a very weird and unnatural arch/path in the air.

And that's it really, most of it was critical but I did like the check inside by the winger, and the way Messi shruggs off the defender to get the goal. Also the animation of the scoring header looked great, her realy got his neck into it.

On the whole, it looks better than 08 but let's just see how it plays.

Comments in bold.

 

[Badgerman]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

I think the speed of the game is quite hard to judge from videos, trailers and the like. Whenever I look back at any of my replays and play them at full speed then it seems as if the game has suddenly entered warp speed 9.

It's something I find very hard to judge until I mentally enter game mode and align my chi with the game, so much so that my actions are merely a reflex to the glorious football being played out in my sub-concious.

Or something.

 

[jonestm]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I always laugh when I read your detailed explanations of things.
It's good stuff, please keep doing what you do

edit - @Trance_Allstar, although Badgerman is always good too.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

I think the speed of the game is quite hard to judge from videos, trailers and the like. Whenever I look back at any of my replays and play them at full speed then it seems as if the game has suddenly entered warp speed 9.

It's something I find very hard to judge until I mentally enter game mode and align my chi with the game, so much so that my actions are merely a reflex to the glorious football being played out in my sub-concious.

Or something.

It depends on whether you are actually playing, or just observing. If you are playing, then you are focusing on things in a different way than if you are watching others play. Intense focus can actually make things seem slower. The more your senses work to gather data, the more data it has for a moment of a certain time, and this added amount of data can actually fool the brain into experiencing and remembering it as happening over a longer time (when in fact it would be more correct to say that the only the data "resolution" during that time period has changed).

Sort of the same principle with car crash victims reporting "time slowed down" or similar things.


...And no, that was not a clever analogy for either game being a car wreck.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I always laugh when I read your detailed explanations of things.
It's good stuff, please keep doing what you do

edit - @Trance_Allstar, although Badgerman is always good too.

I'm here to entertain.

Sleepy time, catch you gents another day!

 

[Badgerman]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

It depends on whether you are actually playing, or just observing. If you are playing, then you are focusing on things in a different way than if you are watching others play. Intense focus can actually make things seem slower. The more your senses work to gather data, the more data it has for a moment of a certain time, and this added amount of data can actually fool the brain into experiencing and remembering it as happening over a longer time (when in fact it would be more correct to say that the only the data "resolution" during that time period has changed).

Sort of the same principle with car crash victims reporting "time slowed down" or similar things.


...And no, that was not a clever analogy for either game being a car wreck.

I also think it's partly an illusion based on how the replays start off in that super slow mode, so the jump to normal speed kind of tricks the eyes.

Another thing I remember from a few Pro Evo's ago was that double speed thing you could unlock, which was stupidly fast. reverting back to normal speed seemed as if the game had suddenly become cripplingly slow.

The car crash thing is true as well, as is the whole life flashing before your eyes thing. Me dad was in a proper hum dinger which spun his car round a few times before setting on fire. It happenedwhen I was 1 but I can tell from the pictures that it was an awesome crash.

He lost his geetar.

:'[

 

[pjft]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

See ya tomorrow Trance and the rest of the gang.

Just to give my thanks to Yak for translating the article. This is the famed article about the control scheme which Lami and I were debating earlier on about a supposed semi-fixed control.

You can already try this sort of control by selecting "semi-fixed" on the player settings and double-tapping R2 to get the ball back...

It hasn't won me over yet, but hopefully it will be optional.

By the way, on the topic of weird experiments, on my quest for playing an experience close to the "Be a Legend", I just played a match in which I used the Vertical long camera during the half I was attacking upwards.

...

:tumble:

...

I can hear the crickets, yes. A couple of years ago I posted that nobody in their perfect mind would ever use such a camera. Guess what: even though it is weird at first,

a) it gives a nice touch of novelty to the game, if you're looking for a challenge or some new experiences asides from psychadelic drugs
b) it gives you a glimpse - even though it is a crippled one - of how the Be a Legend might turn out to be;
c) the 1 vs 1 with the goalkeepers are fantastic. You are put in such a perspective that you can really see where the keeper is in relation to the goal earlier in your run, you can see his stance, and as such you can shoot and place the ball from places where you wouldn't have considered before.

I'm enjoying it... I have to kill time until Leipzig

Good night gents.

Thanks once again Yak.

Best regards,

Paulo Tavares

 

[Punzz]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Promising news indeed. Specially this:

LONGER SLIDING ON WET GRASS!!!

Fucking awesome

What the...F

I requested this exact thing about a few hours before the translation came out. Amazing! Hope it works well in the game! Everything sounds surprisingly promising.

 

[The_Knight]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

My translation of the text in the red box

"The konami counter against Fifa 09 is succesfull: sure they dind´t reinvent the “PES wheel”, but they tuned the gameplay with fine new features. Especially the control doesn´t behave as slow as the version from last year. On top of that the new manual control convinced me (won me over). Playing together with the extremely agressiv and smart acting AI also made a lot of fun and simulate the teamfeeling (“playing together with a team”) even without real human being really well. nevertheless I find it disapointing, that the conventional manual control got kicked out, atleast for the the early version we played. Technically PES 2009 already makes everything correct (offline) and let us easily forget the unfinished PS3 debut. I hope for an Online mode which is also technically good, because in terms of gameplay PES 2009 is already the measurement for all Football simulations."

by the way I´m not 100% german but I learned german since I was five.. so trust me on tha

Thanks Yak you're amazing
Let us know if you find out anything new from the rest of the article in the mag!

 

[Punzz]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Do you know if the magazine author is a hardcore PES fan? Does he review it every year?

 

[hazza10]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

http://www.pesforum.de/pes-2008-allgemein/57121-pes-2009-diskussionsthread-21.html

just found that one on a german forum... it is a scan from the german magazine play3

my short summary:

- first of all no new screens
- the guys from the mag were specially invited by konami to test the version
- they played a very early version of the game but it run really smooth
- even at this early version all seemed very finshed (cleaned up)
- the players response improved (improved ball controll(handling), ability to pass really quick
- AI imrpoved alot more agressive and better position play ("they played at normal and found the AI "scary" in a good way )
- the AI improved alot in defensive play
- new manual pass control... "if your team is in control of the ball the AI is in position of the player with the ball... but as soon as you press L1 you can control the player with the ball" nice
- "the new pass system only sound complicated in the first way it is really easy to adapt"
- the control setting "manual" is replaced by the new control system, automatic and half automatic is still there
- the player models look even better... the polygon figure has increased
- the author mentioned a few new animations ("players wave with there hands to ask for the ball, you can see players stumble aside, players slide longer on wet grass
- players reaction in rain changed alot... balls are hard to control, shoots getting more harder to catch for the goalies, it is harder to pass correctly
- a new mode which allows you to use your saved file online
- the author from the magazines is not allowed to tell more about the new mode

short summary of the author:

- in terms of gameplay he can sure tell PES 2009 beats Fifa 09
- technically PES 2009 felt really well done not like the beta version PES 2008... but he only got the changes to test the offline modus "the game runs smooth as butter"


sounds all good so far...

I agree. Here is a few of my thoughts that i feel would put Pro Evo back on top.

1.bring back full edit mode (essential)
2.sort the running animations out
3.sort the shit nets out. the physics are good but the looks are shit. they are also the same in every stadium and they have those shit blocks around them. Needs to be addressed!
4.thought the shooting was good but there was one type of shot that had a shit animation. its the shot where the player sort of shoots from an angle and does some shitty straight wooden leg shot. looked terrible.
5. more stadiums.

things that would be the Bolox
1.stadium editore(edit nets, stands, adboards, pitch grain, colour, size etc)
2.indepth boot editor( be able to draw logos etc on boot, choose colours for every part of boot and also be able to design patterns and styles for the boot)


what do you fellas think about this????????????

 

[rivaldinho]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

What would be good is if they opened the edit mode completely. Where we have a forced install at the start and you can insert your own kit templates and stuff into that partition.

And they should also do a January update to download like fifa 08.

 

[ARTHILHEIRO]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

And the Champions League franchise, was a fake?

 

[joeryan]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

All this makes a very pleasant read. Thanks Yak. My German needs a little work, my five years of study were a little while ago. Time to break out the textbooks as I wait for Pro Evo.

 

[Lami]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

The full translation of the article. Credit goes to anselmoso from WENB:

Hey guys,

I can't edit the 1st post in my previous thread but many of you guys only seem to read the first post - so I thought I'd be good to open up a new thread with the whole translation of the article:

Pro Evolution Soccer 2009
King Soccer rules the PS3:
can Konami win the title again?



The virtual football season '09 is opened. After EA already gave the starting shot with Fifa 09, Konami invited us into their holy halls as well. Our mission: Exclusively laying hands on PES 2009 and report on it in our magazine. We didn't need to be asked twice and can now reveal to you how last year's champion starts into the new season.



New year, new luck

While EA is directing FIFA in the right direction year after year, Konami has already been on the right path for a long time: No other game simulates germany's no 1 sport as realistically as the PES franchise. But in the past year they tripped themselves up with PES 2008: Due to an immature presentation they gave the competitor the possibility to reduce the distance. But with PES 2009 the biggest japanese publisher apparently has learned its lesson: although we were playing a very early version, the events on the green grass proceeded as soft as butter and already left very good impressions. How does the Konami-kick play?



AI-cleverness

On the first look it seems as if not much has changed, but we looked closer: the players now react faster to your orders and have improved in controlling and handling the ball. In previous PES installations the players sometimes reacted delayed in time, so that for example a pass was performed only seconds later and hence went into touch. In PES 2009 the AI recognizes when you want to play a pass and either passes the ball directly or not at all. The AI seems to have trained a lot in the last months anyway. Positional play and aggressiveness on normal difficulty are already shockingly well developed. The CPU constricts you in your own half and closes up empty rooms so well that you have to find the gap in handball-manner. Only too well that you can use the new AI-cleverness for own benefit thanks to the new manual controls.



Human-Machine-System

In this new control variant you are the passing and receiving player
at the same time and have to work with the AI. When your team has the
ball the AI is controlling the ball until you push L1. Then you control
the player with the ball and play the intelligent pass to the CPU which
then only has to put the bullet into the net and you take the lead.
Alternatively you can let the AI serve you: run into free space and
wait for the throughpass of your AI controlled teammate. The manual control only sounds complicated in theory - on the grass
human and machine harmonize surprisingly well. Unfortunatelly the
traditional manual control was cancelled for this variant. Apart from that you only have the choice between automatic and half-automatic control.



Technically versed

As mentioned above, PES 2009 already cuts a fine figure. The game has also advanced graphically: players look slightly better than last year thanks to higher polygon count and also learned some new animations. They now demand the ball with wild gesticulations, stumble to the ground apart from the events and when it's raining they slide especially long on the grass. Rainy weather has a deep impact on your players anyway: even your star-players make unfamiliar misplays, shots race even more unpredictable towards the keeper and when passing you have to calculate on higher rubbing.

The known Master League and Cup modes are still in PES 2009. Unfortunately we can make no words about the the new star: a complete new mode which lets your saved data also play against your friends online. Curios soccer-fans should organize themselves some tickets for the Games Convention in Leipzig on the 20th of August and force open the Konami booth - with kind regards from the play3-team!



Opinion

PES 2009 hits Fifa on the break: Certainly the wheel isn't reinvented, but the gameplay has evolved with subtle improvements. Especially the controls aren't as ponderous as last year. Additionally the manual controls absolutely convinced me. The cooperation with the aggressive and clever acting AI is a lot of fun and simulates team-feeling even without other human players. Nevertheless I think it's a pity that the conventional manual controls have been cancelled from the game, at least in this early version we've played. Technically PES 2009 already makes all right and lets you quickly forget last year's immature debut on the PS3. I hope for a similar well working online-mode, cause playfully PES 2009 is already the measure of all things, that's for sure.

Rating tendency: 90%

 

[jonneymendoza]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

brilient news and i like the sound of that Manual control too

 

[Lami]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Can't wait to try it myself to see how it works for me.

 

[tobi]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

I haven't really used manual control in previous games mainly because you have to press R3 and that's uncomfortable.

 

[Punzz]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

The downer for me is still no word on master league which i'm led to believe its near enough identical this year. It looks like the singleplayer experience will be improved though with better CPU AI (suprised the press release didnt come out with stupid lingo again, teamvision i think it was).

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Lol Badger you and that crossbar...............its real love

Yeah he loves the sound of balls hitting wood, ahem.

As for the preview, to me it sounds pretty much the same as all the previews we have read over the years, slightly improved adjustments here and there but nothing spectacular.

The game has also advanced graphically: players look slightly better than last year thanks to higher polygon count and also learned some new animations.

vs

The game has undergone a stunning graphical update to ensure its players look more like their real-life counterparts.

Wonder if any of seabass' comments from last year (quoted in Lami's sig) will come true, not counting on it

 

[ThomasGOAL]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

And the Champions League franchise, was a fake?

no no, it's in believe me

 

[Han]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Yes, the German article was based on a version that was from before the CL -news.

 

[pjft]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Good morning everyone.

That's a great translation you got there! Thanks!

@ARTILHEIRO: the champions league license has apparently been acquired by Konami. The source is from here:

http://playstationuniverse.wordpres...quire-uefa-champions-league-license/#more-641

I don't know how true that is, but it is cited in some places where the Champions League license in PES is discussed. It might be just a rumor, but it was what I found.

However, even if it is true, it doesn't mean that it will be present in PES 2009.

It would make sense that they did include it, because the CL license is importance is mostly reflected in the European market. If it doesn't make it into PES 2009, then it's a full year they are not going to profit from the license, while paying for it.

However, having been acquired so late in the cycle might make it hard for them to implement the new game modes/licenses without either delaying the game or breaking some stuff...

Personally, I'd like to believe that, if it is true, it will be present in PES2009. Let's see.

To TikTikTik: you do enjoy getting the hopes of everyone down with that pessimistic attitude, right?

to me it sounds pretty much the same as all the previews we have read over the years, slightly improved adjustments here and there but nothing spectacular.

Come on, last years preview was pretty poor.

This year's preview tells you about a couple of new things that apparently don't matter, such as:

- The new control system
- The defensive AI
- The new game mode
- The possibility to take your player online a la "Be a Pro" in FIFA (this I'm inferring from the rest of the info that has been made somewhat public earlier)
- The rain affecting the players and the physics

No matter what they add, some people just won't be satisfied right? What has FIFA done this year to justify such a hype?

- Tweaks to gameplay
- Improved online
- Improved physics

It's really on the same level. Isn't this what they promise every year also, and is on every preview? You're just being too pessimistic overall - every other post from you either attacks Konami or PES, and tries to cast doubt about everything new that comes up.

I can concede that the previewer might be over-hyping some of the stuff, but it is far from being "just the same as every year".

Furthermore, I recalled last night the tragedy that was PES2008's big announcement for the fans.

They listened to the fans so much, and they tried so much to please the fans and their patching community that they included a new feature that FIFA doesn't have yet: the face modelling feature, which is used by many modding communities.

Still, many people here were the first to shoot it down and say that Konami doesn't listen to the fans and never brings anything new to the table.

Talk about ungratitude, huh? :|

They are listening, and I trust that they know what they are doing. PES2009 is shaping up to be a good game - and I'm not saying that it will or that it won't be better than FIFA.

Best regards,

Paulo Tavares

 

[jeblo05]

Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

I haven't really used manual control in previous games mainly because you have to press R3 and that's uncomfortable.

I think it's gotta do with the cursor switch (auto,semi,manual,semi-fixed,fixed). If they got rid of manual it would be a real pita.

It's the semi-fixed mode they are talking about.

They also changed manual passing:
in the past we've had:
- move R3 -> skills / move & click -> pass
- move R3 -> pass (+L1 ->high pass) / move & click -> tricks -> needs some pracice/skills, but you can do some great passes. Unfortunately tricks are even harder to pull off

now it's changed to
- move R3 -> pass (+L1 ->high pass) / move + R2(?) -> tricks