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WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

I think Teamvision isn't a thing you notice in a three hour-session, unless you take a hard look at the tactics and strategies the CPU uses in conjunction to the tactics of the human opponent. Those previewers are all round gamers and probably not the tactical freek I am ;)
I am sure I would see the difference if I play three matches in a row between the same teams...
But yeah, most (p)reviewers will find it hard to notice the TeamVision tactical changes...
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Can't wait to see what the editing is like :D
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Han said:
If they used cheating-scripts they did it to give the CPU more chance.
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Give the CPU a chance? jesus! sometimes it gave the CPU more than just a chance... it gave itself a complete miracle.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

djdoc said:
Give the CPU a chance? jesus! sometimes it gave the CPU more than just a chance... it gave itself a complete miracle.
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Sometimes yes, especially in the leagues and competition where it matters.
That should now be history with TeamVision, I hope...
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

I hope so han. I want 2 GREAT football games to play this year :)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

I also think like Han, that Teamvision is something to do with ML/Leagues/Cups etc. Teams would learn your game obviously and try not to fall for your traps. Don't think it has to do with exhibition games really.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Agree with Lami, from what ive read it seems to me that this "learning" happens between games. Meaning its in the next match that a team will actively exploit your tactics. For example if you have a really good winger and are continually using him for dribbles and crosses, i assume the "teamvision" in the next game would mean he would be agressively defended/marked throughout the game. I dont think it changes mid game though, which is a shame and something fifa CL did. In one of the preview's it stated that even though every team has their own style they will, within their own playing style, change tactics to combat what the AI had learnt from the previous match.

It definitly seems to be a single player tournament/ML element.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Lami said:
I also think like Han, that Teamvision is something to do with ML/Leagues/Cups etc. Teams would learn your game obviously and try not to fall for your traps. Don't think it has to do with exhibition games really.
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I think it also works in exhibition matches. I think Teamvision already changes it's tactic during the match. It will probably uses stats from the human player, like how much you attack along the wings or passes through the middle. It will record it and if it plays again against you it uses one of it's most succesfull tactic. Even in exhibition matches. But yes, probably it uses THE most succesfull tactics in the leagues and cups.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Im not sure about that Han. Look at it this way, if it also records during exibition matches then in the end it will always use the same tactics to start of with. I think it will be tied into game saves as opposed to "non recorded" matches like exibition. But we will have to wait and see.

As for eliminating the cheating in the game, dont forget konami have added a blatent cheat possibility with the dive combo.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

I think its so funny how your all hanging on to this "Teamvision". If the reviews, testers, contacts etc have all played the game and noticed no changes in gameplay, then teamvision is just a gimmick. Sure its good to speculate, but I wouldnt get your hopes up.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

This teamvision thing, has anyone else found that especially on the hardest setting that after a while the cpu changes tactics anyway, or at least gets better if you use teh same tactic. I usually start with ML default players on 4-4-2 but after a while i have to go to 4-3-3 or 4-5-1. I usually have to change tactics after about 6/7 games because the computer cottons on to what im doing
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Jack Bauer said:
Completely agree with everything you have to say, 100%. But bear in mind this isn't me saying the positive things, it's my "contact". I'm sure I'll think it's shite and be back on your ignore list before it's released. ;)

Thing is though, I might be negative, but that doesn't mean I'm an idiot and I ignore all the plus points. I do actually take everything in from the magazines etc., the positives and the negatives. I just barely see the things that matter to me improve. (And before a smartarse says "so gameplay doesn't matter to you", of course it does, but the CPU cheats are what I hate most about the gameplay and I hear nothing about them being eliminated from the game.)

I'm not here to say "the game is shit". I report what I say word for word, I don't put my own spin on it. Despite what people think, I'm not here on some crusade to make people hate PES. I don't care what you play, I hope you have fun with whatever games you choose. I just personally dislike the way the game is going, and simply put I don't have fun with it any more. I had the game on the 360 for a total of around 30 days - had it 10 days after it was first released, sold it, then a few months later bought it back after everyone was raving about it on here, then 20 days later sold it again.

But I know that the game used to be great, and I know the potential for it to be great (to me) is still there, so I'll be bitching every year until the game gets its "fun factor" back.

I'll continue reporting what I can get hold of, and apologies to all those I offend with my bitching in the process. But I do try to make constructive criticism, which I think should earn me some credit.
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You'll be staying OFF the ignore list as you are not an insane ranter and have some valid points to make.

I actually agree the game has not improved much over the last four years on either the "fun factor" or intelligent AI. What would be great would be if good players made more spontaneous "blind-side" runs, for example you will see Steven Gerrard powering toward the left-wing in reality to help give the team an option. One of the best things in football (for fans and players) is when a player arrives at the last minute in the box to turn a good movie into a great goal-scoring one. Would love to see more of that.

I also tried to force myself to love PES6 on the 360. But it was ridiculously hard and un-rewarding. How many 0-0's can one person take?

At the end of the day, I'm probably a bit fed up of a masterleague anyway, as long as you can create flowing moves and when you get around the box, you can put a decent shot in, that feels natural and intuitive, then I'll be happy.

For me, in PES6 you had to do a little bit too much "work" for every touch, that was too much animation, too much business going on with eacher passer of the ball. A bit like Arsenal you might say!

Still, getting good vibes about 2008, here's hoping..
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Jack Bauer said:
All you care about is multiplayer.

Does that make me right? Does that make you right?

So you'll be happy with it, I won't be. So I will moan, because I won't be happy with the game. You will be, so good for you.

Seriously, there must be a million people who play PES versus the CPU and the ML. Just because you don't, doesn't make you right. And if you've got nothing to complain about, GREAT! Have fun. But I have, so block me and let me complain until I see the single player experience improved.
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no im not right, but your slagging the ENTIRE GAME OFF BECAUSE of single player. Thats my problem with your opinion, you take a portion of the game and because that portion may not be the best expereince, the entire game sucks... and thats not right because its not accurate. PES6 on PS2 was and is great in multiplayer. But from reading your posts its as if the game is unplayable.... which is not entireley true. All im saying jack is that you should form your opinion on the entire game, not just the single player aspect.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Han said:
I think Teamvision isn't a thing you notice in a three hour-session, unless you take a hard look at the tactics and strategies the CPU uses in conjunction to the tactics of the human opponent. Those previewers are all round gamers and probably not the tactical freek I am ;)
I am sure I would see the difference if I play three matches in a row between the same teams...
But yeah, most (p)reviewers will find it hard to notice the TeamVision tactical changes...
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So spot on my friend ,maybe those magazines expected some huge signs telling them that Teamvision is now activated so beware :mrgreen::mrgreen: .What I just mean ,if the CPU plays in a more realistic way ,I'll be very happy.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

gomito#10 said:
no im not right, but your slagging the ENTIRE GAME OFF BECAUSE of single player. Thats my problem with your opinion, you take a portion of the game and because that portion may not be the best expereince, the entire game sucks... and thats not right because its not accurate. PES6 on PS2 was and is great in multiplayer. But from reading your posts its as if the game is unplayable.... which is not entireley true. All im saying jack is that you should form your opinion on the entire game, not just the single player aspect.
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But if I buy the game purely for one aspect, and that aspect is riddled with cheats etc., then why would I enjoy it? So to me, the entire game sucks, because to me, the ML is the entire game. If a game has ten game modes, only one of which I enjoy the structure of, but that game mode turns to shit, why would I still love the game? If I don't play the other game modes then I don't care how great they are, I'm not interested in them. And besides, the ML is included with the game, it's not an add-on or an afterthought, so it should be considered a "proper" feature like everything else and improved instead of being left to rot. If there was just a bloody "cheats off" button, then I would have little left to complain about (apart from the tram-line movement, but that's another story, some like analog, some hate it).

I always say when I criticise the game, "to me", "in my eyes", "in my opinion", and I always say "if you buy it for multiplayer then you'll be happy with it". I don't doubt that a lot of people love the game, and that multiplayer is a lot of fun. But 99% of the time I will be playing an ML (actually it's usually a multiplayer ML, two or three people versus the CPU, and all of the cheats I mention occur just the same whether it's one vs the CPU or four vs the CPU).

I agree with Lionel entirely, the ML needs to be retired and replaced with something next-gen. But the Japs love it (filling a team with all-stars, three David Beckhams, two Michael Owens and a Wayne Rooney for three billion fantasy credits), and they just don't complain about it. So I doubt it will be changed in the near future.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

tiktiktiktik said:
Im not sure about that Han. Look at it this way, if it also records during exibition matches then in the end it will always use the same tactics to start of with. I think it will be tied into game saves as opposed to "non recorded" matches like exibition. But we will have to wait and see.
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I would agree with you if all teams were equally strong and play with players who have equal attributes. That is not the case. If your left-back is Roberto Carlos, he plays much different than, say, Neville. So TeamVision will probably play already different on this back position, according to the attributes of that particular back.
In Master League there play more details a role, like teamwork, which improves by every match your squad plays in the same formation. Also aging plays a role.
That's why Teamvision will be able to adapt more in Master League than in Exhibition match. It will change in exhibition match, but because it uses less parameters than in ML it will be less effective.
The main thing is that TeamVision will be particulary effective in a game where all players and all teams have different parameters. That's why it fits perfectly into PES.
As for eliminating the cheating in the game, dont forget konami have added a blatent cheat possibility with the dive combo.
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Yes, reason the more to remove the 'cheating-scripts'. Else the game will be off-balance towards random-factors.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Not sure how you expect TeamVision to work in Exhibition matches, assuming it is something it "learns" over different matches. There could quite legitimately be many different people play on your console in an exhibition match and all will have there owns styles of play. What's TeamVision suppposed to do with that?

When lots of reviewers are saying the game is nice and smooth to play, you all believe them. Yet, when all the reviews say that the AI seems to be no different to before, then the reviewers must surely be at fault.

Here's what I think:

TeamVision = AI from PES6 + little tweaks + gimmicky name "TeamVision".
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

So whos going to flame winston for his opinion then? :) Im sure if I posted that I would get flamed like shit!
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

winston said:
Not sure how you expect TeamVision to work in Exhibition matches, assuming it is something it "learns" over different matches. There could quite legitimately be many different people play on your console in an exhibition match and all will have there owns styles of play. What's TeamVision suppposed to do with that?
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I have heared that players get profiles to keep record of their stats. I expect teamvision to keep record from different players by using different profiles.
Of course, you must not use the profile of your brother, else things mix up. If Konami does this well, they should give players passwords for their profiles...
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

djdoc said:
So whos going to flame winston for his opinion then? :) Im sure if I posted that I would get flamed like shit!
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Deep down, they suspect I'm right :lol:.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

lionel_messias said:
I also tried to force myself to love PES6 on the 360. But it was ridiculously hard and un-rewarding. How many 0-0's can one person take?
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Huh? PES6 360? are you sure? i abandoned that game coz its way too easy :shock: i win every game between 4,7-0 with rooney top scorer on 60+ goals!
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

:| Lami, you must be a PES God or something.

Every game I played on PES6 360 (ML five-star) finished 0-0. Must have played ten games in a row, all 0-0s. But then saying that, I find it the same on the PS2 version (but with a few 1-1s thrown in)...
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Originally Posted by gomito#10
no im not right, but your slagging the ENTIRE GAME OFF BECAUSE of single player. Thats my problem with your opinion, you take a portion of the game and because that portion may not be the best expereince, the entire game sucks... and thats not right because its not accurate. PES6 on PS2 was and is great in multiplayer. But from reading your posts its as if the game is unplayable.... which is not entireley true. All im saying jack is that you should form your opinion on the entire game, not just the single player aspect.
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Groan, let it go!!! Its his opinion, end of. I used to play a lot of multiplayer and loved it (pes3/4) but now all my gaming friends, as well as myself, have more important things in life and dont have the time to meet up and play regularly. So now im left with a game that i only play in singleplayer. My, and Jack's opinion is based on personal experience / taste. And with that it will get its moans, ratings and complements. Jack's not a f#$%ing review site / mag is he?! He has no obligation to comment/review the game from a general perspective, and nor is he attempting to. FFS he has to add "imo", "from my point of view", etc, etc in nearly every sentence just to stop the rest of the dickheads having a go at him for being negative about the game. Which he is entitled to, as well as anybody else and their opinion. Why are you so hung up on him basing his opinion on the game with the added element that YOU think is great?! Is his opinion so important to you that you need it? J'sus........

All im saying jack is that you should form your opinion on the entire game, not just the single player aspect.
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Who are you to say what he should or shouldnt do?! He's clearly, and far more elequently then you have ever posted, written his opinion. All he SHOULD do is follow the rules of the forum, nothing more or less.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Jack Bauer said:
:| Lami, you must be a PES God or something.

Every game I played on PES6 360 (ML five-star) finished 0-0. Must have played ten games in a row, all 0-0s. But then saying that, I find it the same on the PS2 version (but with a few 1-1s thrown in)...
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Wow? Maybe my version is easier lol. I'm serious about it though. Its way too easy and that's why i went back to PES6 PS2 because i can never have such results (4+-0). Only last night i wanted to play it again, i loaded ML i had Liverpool to play against in CL and thrashed 'em 6-0 lol. Then i sighed and played UEFA CL. Oh yea last time i played PES6 360 (before last nights liverpool 6-0 thrashing) was more than a month ago becuase i reached a stage where i won my last 3 ML games 10-0, 10-1, 11-0. lol.

EDIT: Yes i do play on Top player or 5 star (whatever the name is).
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Lami, you must be a PES God or something.
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Cool, im a pes god aswell then. I started a ML (5* with all the rest set to hard) and only used youth players in the team. After a couple of seasons i was winning everything and quickly getting bored...........
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Hm, that's weird. I used to be able to beat the ML teams 3-0, but I'm talking 3-4 years ago. Since then the most I can manage is a 1-0 or a 2-0, once every five games. I've stopped playing it regularly though, and I am crap at practically every other game in existence, so... Perhaps it's just me.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

Sounds like it Jack.........or maybe you need to check to see if you need glasses :D
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/30/07)

If I lost my glasses then it would take me half an hour to realise I'd put the wrong disc in and was playing Gears Of War.

That's what heats me up so much about the ML, it's not the fact that I'm not winning but the fact that before I could move about freely, translate what I wanted to do into the game perfectly, but now the CPU's constant knocks, pulls, trips and magnetic-boots stunt your ability to do that (well, just my ability, obviously).
 
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