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WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

sorry guys but who can say that the 360 version is the worst ?In terms of gameplay the players interact with the ball much better than the ps2,it has more animation(passing,shooting,more dribbling) and moves.in terms of graphics the way it looks and feels it would be similar to pes2008 and dont be suprised if the 360 version is much closer(similar) to pes2008 than the new j-league.The only problem is the joypad thats why im waiting for it on the ps3.I agree with those who said it was a dissapointment because it wasn't what we expected the true next-gen game we've been waiting for, but its the best we have until now and that's true.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

The only problem with the 360 version was lack of edit mode and a few other things like that.

Out on the pitch it's the best version, both in-terms of graphics and game play.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/03/07)

Scorpio said:
Hi guys,

Don't know if it's posted already but here's another picture I found.

PES2008.jpg


Hope there won't be 2 much of my PES 2008 option file needed when this game comes out...

Grtz
Scorp
Click to expand...

:shock::shock::shock:


Now THATS truly "nextgen". Just have a look at the number being stretched. I can't wait to see it in motion. *drools*


Thanks scorp :applause:
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

NickSCFC said:
The only problem with the 360 version was lack of edit mode and a few other things like that.

Out on the pitch it's the best version, both in-terms of graphics and game play.
Click to expand...

very true
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

what a pic mate THAT'S what im talkin about . I still haven't seen the changes on the pitch from the rain or something and with the way the grass is looking i can't see it happening or maybe its a suprise
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Alright then, here we go. First off, I'd like to say that I'm dubious about posting this. Not because of legal issues or anything like that; I've been told this doesn't break the NDA the guy is under in any way, otherwise he simply wouldn't have told me what he has. He doesn't break NDAs for anyone, which is why he still has a job. The reason why I'm unsure whether I should post this or not is because I am going to get ripped to pieces by the guys who have to shoot the messenger. So please, don't. And if you don't believe me then you don't - like Adonis, I love this community and I just want to give whatever information I can. So take it or leave it.

I met up with an old friend of mine this afternoon who is involved in the games industry (more the PS3 side). He only told me what he's allowed to tell me, so please, don't get your hopes up, there is no new information here, no news on specific features or whatever. All that is still covered by the NDA. What follows is his personal opinion, which I have been told I can freely talk about. (And please don't ask if I can ask him questions about this or that, he won't tell me anything that's covered by the NDA, and we rarely talk anyway.)

I hadn't seen him in a while, and so we arranged to have a little chat in town. We're sitting there, talking about your run-of-the-mill stuff, how's life, how's the girlfriend, all that, with me trying not to say "you haven't seen Pro Evo or FIFA 08 have you?!". Then, out of nowhere, he comes out with "we got sent a beta copy of Pro Evo 2008 the other week" as if it's as trivial as walking the dog. I said "you're joking?!" but apparently not. What he had to say though wasn't good news.

He said that it is clear to him that Konami have set their stall out to copy FIFA this year, and it's not looking good. He couldn't understand why a game that is such a big name has gone down the route of trying to copy something else.

He said because it was a beta version, a lot of stuff was missing (literally half the graphics aren't there), but there was an obvious graphical improvement from PES6 (no different from the current screenshots but again, this is an early beta and the general consensus from the magazine guys is that they will improve). He said that where players had their own faces, they were really great and they've improved a lot. And he said the shirt-pulling and that looked great, plus there's a lot more animations. But he was concerned that the players with generic faces make the game look terrible. Not because they are any worse than in PES6, but because you've got fantastic, photo-realistic faces mixed with cartoonistic ones (again, this could change before release, they could be using the current-gen generic faces until they sort everything else out).

Also on the subject of graphics, he said that usually, with half the graphics missing, a game would run quite quickly, but he found that while the game ran fine in midfield, the game jerked extremely badly around the box. Again, this is all tuned before release, so it would be surprising if this is still the case come release-time. He told me that it may simply need tuning or it may be down to the new AI engine that Konami keep mentioning - but he said that he didn't actually notice that many AI improvements, bar the odd defender who would stay in his place rather than chase you non-stop (one of the things that annoys me most about PES, glad that they're working on that).

What he noticed the most though, and what really shocked him, was how the gameplay felt "clunky" - in his words, "it's as if they're trying to copy the motion system from FIFA [where players feet plant into the ground with each step and the body position affects the shot], but they've just not got it right, the game doesn't flow and it just doesn't feel right". He said he couldn't understand how PES could outsell FIFA in the last two or three years, and yet now they seemingly move away from their formula and try to emulate their competition. But he later said that perhaps it's down to all the new animations being too long, and that they may have to be edited/speeded-up before the game's release to help the responsiveness.

I said it was strange that a few places, WENB and the magazines, were really looking forward to it. He asked me how they got their information, and I told him that it's through Konami's PR. "Well there you go then", he said, "they're not going to tell you it's crap, are they?"

And that's it, basically. He plays PES every single lunchtime at work, so he should know how it's supposed to "feel". He's had PES betas before, and he's not felt this worried about the game before. But, his personal opinion is that the game has got slowly-but-surely worse since PES 3 onwards, so if you disagree with that perhaps you'll be less inclined to listen. And this is only his personal opinion, so who knows, you may love the game. But there you go.

Again, I'm just trying to give something to the community. Make of this what you will.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

The pub feature is "neat." That's it. Enjoyable for the first few times and you'll probably skip it afterwards just like we probably all do when we see the substitution animation nowadays. (I still leave the animation for a minute, mostly to talk smack)

What bothers the most is that it has been said that the dev team has been shrinking and they simply don't have as many people as Seabass would want to have. And now, they spend their time in this "neat" feature?
Yes, they are trying to improve the one-player experience but the most of the one player problems are in structure (Divisions, #of teams). Lol, yes, that means more teams, more licenses, more money. But they were always able to do that by leaving the freaking empty team crap they did when they got rid of the Bundesliga.
Gosh, I haven't played the master league since WE6:FE back in the day when I'd play my brother's master league team.

Konami has always missed, and still misses, little details that sometimes are unacceptable. Who remembers not being able to switch to a human opponent when a match had already started as a 1-player game. I think it was Mauras back in the day that would always complain about that until they finally did it.

The one thing that Konami has always put aside has been the sound, the in-game atmosphere. Not the commentator but the atmosphere. I'll never forget the first Solidus chant patches and many others. They improved the game, to me at least, a lot.

The grapics look cartoony. I hope they get better. They look like a revamped graphics engine. The player 3-D models look pretty much the same. They will probably be awesome in-motion but that Espinas photo comparison is to say the least, disappointing. On the other hand, the black guy's hand detail that someone else pointed out is a step forward.

I trust what your contacts say Adonis. The game will look good. We need to find early press release WE5 pics and post release WE5 pics to get a better idea. Right now, people bring up that the early shots of PES6 were from a beta and they look exactly the same as the retail version but you have to keep in mind that the p2 PES graphic engine had already been pushed to the limit. Therefore, there wasn't much to polish.

Woaa. that was pretty nostalgic post.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Cheers Jack. Very interesting to read.

Part of me is obviously disappointed with his opinion but at the same time, I'm not really surprised to here this at all, particularly about the AI having barely changed.

Oh well....
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Sorry man but i really can't see this team failing on a game that is under development for 18 months.Not a chance
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

These new images have appeased me.

Now begins the annual video hunt.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Man that was a quite negative response. It made me quiet.
We'l have to wait till the vids are coming.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

It is a pretty early version that he's been sent, in fairness. We refer to it as a "beta" copy because that's just the word you use, but it's almost definitely earlier than a beta. So it may be a lot of useless information - but I'm just reporting whatever I can. If he does get a later version at any point I'm sure he'll drop me a line, so we'll see what develops.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

A good heads up Jack. We all hope these issues are improved. This reminds of the version were they f'd up the super cancel (your player would stop for a split of second, that one split of s second that you needed to get a ahead of your opponent)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Do you know what version he plays (ps3/ xkbox 360) because if it's ps3 it worries me a bit, about the stuttering in the box and stuff. Maybe Konami is having difficulties programming for the ps3. I hop the framerate will be right and not like the news we heard that madden, all pro footbal etc. will run at 60 fps on xbox 360 and 30 fps on ps3.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

As I said in the post mate, he works on the PlayStation3 side. With the game being developed on PS3, that's what confused me. But if there's a lot that still needs to be tuned (it is a pretty early version, as I say above) then it may well turn out okay come the final release.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Thanks Jack B, good read, disappointing to hear. Long time ago there was this rumour that people from the KCET signed at EA' sports to work on the Fifa series. Well, lately it seems this has been the case and it is starting to pay off for the later. As if the Seabass team is out of talent. And the consumer is left with two footy games that both are just not satisfying enough. But there is still hope, now im jumping to conclusions myself.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Here is the Classic view most ppl play in.

pes2008_1.jpg


So why is it ppl always get over excited about:

The way the crowd looks.
Grass appearing over players boots.
Sweat and rain on players.
Players facial expressions whilst running with the ball.
Theres more but hopefully you get the point.

None of this matters, you cant see it unless you zoom in on a replay etc.

So start worrying about the things that matters.
Crowd Noise.
Competitions especially the MasterLeague which even tho ppl are trying to say theres an "increased Career mode" there hasn't been a single OFFICIAL pic or Word on this.
Edit Mode.
Grass textures due to some terrible Pitches before and obvious non existing testing.
The fact that pulling shirts might give Konami the excuse to allow defenders to start catching up with 99 speed and Dribble players again.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

the magic recipe and the secret ingredients(sounds like kfc) of seabass game as we all know is pretty much very old plus is getting better year after year i can't see it going that wrong.Maybe the teamvision element is not in the beta and the game doesn't flow properly or something else i dont know i just can see it going wrong, anw thank u for the news Jack.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

So will there be more info tomorrow?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

If it's supposed to have been in development for 18 months you'd think the TeamVision stuff would have been in it, whether it was an early version or not. But we'll see. I'm glad people are taking it for what it is and that I've not been flamed to death yet. :)

Titch, NDAs for various places are supposed to expire tomorrow, so there could well be some more information out then.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Oh no. FIFA 08 copying PES 2008 is fine to me. But PES 2008 copying FIFA 08 looks terrible. Is a nightmare to me!!! I DON'T WANT to believe in such thing!
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Jack, thx for sharing the info althou it doesn't sound too optimistic, however in the case of new generation game a couple of years really pass before the game engine is polished and becomes "true" next-gen. Just remember the differences between WE5 and WE7. Both were PS2 games but look at the graphical differences:

WE5:
28.jpg


WE6:
winning11_121101_2.jpg


WE7:
winning_eleven_72b.jpg
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Thanks for the news Jack! Although seems to be bad, I guess in a pre-beta you can't put a conclusion like "PES is going FIFa's way". Hope I am right...
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

I still remember when the eye-ball movement was one of their selling points ;)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Good post Re-arranged, what an evolution PES3 was, a whole new engine. I expect the same for PES 2009
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Thanks for the info Jack.

One thought, though: I hope that this "clunkyness" is just an adaptation period... Don't get me wrong here, people, but remember the difference in feel from ISS Pro Evo 2 (PSOne) to PES (PS2)?... I do remember. I remember that they had inserted a lot more animations, and it felt clunkier to play... But a couple of weeks later there was no way I was going to go back to PSOne. Maybe I am wrong, yes, but I personally tend to hold back my expectations until I get to actually play and feel the game.

What this tells us, though, is that a video will not let us know how the game actually feels to play - i.e.it can be beautifully animated, but play like good ol' Match Day in the Spectrum (great game back then...).

Just my two cents.

Paulo Tavares
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Hi Guys ... i have too say that that latest screen looks better than the ones from the scans ... my opinion
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

great post JB as usual,

Im actually feeling quite hopefull about this game today after seeing the high res pics - the grass looks nice and in 3d - its different from the pes on 360 - where thae grass was fluffy moss like looking whereas the pic above has sharp looking grass.

Although your mate says there are problems, i feel hopeful that as it is an early beta that problems like he mentioned will be ironed out - Such as the slowdown, its not like you cant say you dont notice the slowdown if its bad, so im thinking konami know this.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/04/07)

Tnz Jack, although by the sound of it, are you sure he wasnt just playing the pes6 360 version? :lol:

The stuttering is a worry, the 360 version had the worst ive ever experienced on a pes game. Shockingly bad, going in to slow mo with more then 7 players on screen.
As for not noticing the teamvision, im not that worried about that. Dont know how much he's played, but the aggresiveness (speed that it adjusts) can be tweaked, and if he hadnt played it a lot he maybe wouldnt notice it anyway. Although saying that i noticed it fairly quickly in UEFA on the box, so maybe its just another nokami "massive ML improvement" statement that really isnt much at all.

The comment about the improvement of animation is good and can only improve the "organicness" of the game when playing it. The faces comment(old generic etc) would be realistic and in keeping with half the grapichs missing.

What does seem poor is the fifa copying with regard to planting your feet and controller reaction. You already know thats why i brought UEFA back to the shop as the timing/reaction speed was just to slow for me. PES has been gradually getting slower in this department, or atleast seem to. I remember playing pes3 and loving how the ball bounced and how fast the game reacted to the controller. Its gradually gotton slower with pes5 being crap, and pes6 on the 360 not having fast reactions either.

Ill wait to see what the actual game is gonna be, but so far ive been neither dissapointed nor encouraged by whats been shown/said. I never expected the graphics to be great, and the gameplay really needs to be sorted after the 360 version. Sadly the ML has had little commentary and gives me little hope that they have actually really changed it. So far the game doesnt seem to be improving by the margin we hoped/expected/demanded (new engine?!, database increase, etc).

Again its "early days" from whats been sent out, however they will have about 2 months left to finish the game (september with a month for packaging/shipping/MS quality control/etc) and if it hasnt improved dramatically already (the early beta to the next beta version to be shown) i cant see much happening. The pes6 beta to retail didnt actually change much (from the early france-czech screens with horrible pitches and henry face to the actual retail release, where the rest of the game looked the same with an improvement to faces and pitch textures). With really the only difference being improved textures, which as most of us have been doing editing know, isnt "major" work. If the problems mentioned are still there (slowdown, poor responsiveness, lack of teamvision) in the beta version i think another season of dissapointment is awaiting us.

However as usual for any PES fan, i live in hope that this year could be THE year that they finally give us the game we want. I wont hold my breath.
 
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