UEFA Euro Men 2024

Haven't Southgate/England had a good run under him though?
Two Euro finals and a WC semi, that's pretty impressive (especially looking back at other managers prior to him)

I get that people want/think England should have won two finals instead, but that's football, other top teams in Europe have brilliant players as well, equal/or better than the English squad.

What made Spain win this was a lot of things combined.
Breaking up Barca/Madrid fraction's, adapting a new tactic playing more direct while still be the best in the business at possession, plus coming up as a big family (their words) going in to this championship.

Me seeing this from the outside think Southgate has had a fantastic run with this team.
 
rockstrongo said:
Haven't Southgate/England had a good run under him though?
Two Euro finals and a WC semi, that's pretty impressive (especially looking back at other managers prior to him)

I get that people want/think England should have won two finals instead, but that's football, other top teams in Europe have brilliant players as well, equal/or better than the English squad.

What made Spain win this was a lot of things combined.
Breaking up Barca/Madrid fraction's, adapting a new tactic playing more direct while still be the best in the business at possession, plus coming up as a big family (their words) going in to this championship.

Me seeing this from the outside think Southgate has had a fantastic run with this team.
Click to expand...
He has had a great run but it’s typical English mentality to call for his head. Our media will probably tear him and the team to pieces in the morning. Already started to see it happen in this forum. It really is a shame because he’s our most successful manager in modern times.
 
rockstrongo said:
Haven't Southgate/England had a good run under him though?
Two Euro finals and a WC semi, that's pretty impressive (especially looking back at other managers prior to him)

I get that people want/think England should have won two finals instead, but that's football, other top teams in Europe have brilliant players as well, equal/or better than the English squad.

What made Spain win this was a lot of things combined.
Breaking up Barca/Madrid fraction's, adapting a new tactic playing more direct while still be the best in the business at possession, plus coming up as a big family (their words) going in to this championship.

Me seeing this from the outside think Southgate has had a fantastic run with this team.
Click to expand...

I think he should have won something with the players that he has had along with other nations being poor for the last few years.

In this tournament he has reminded me a bit like Ten Hag at United, getting fortunate because of the 'big name' players and not really having the correct tactics. I noticed Kane has been getting a lot of stick which is fair enough but I think he is unfit and slowed down a bit since playing in the Bundesliga, I think a lot of the players were poor for England in this tournement from an attacking aspect. But again I think the manager got tactics wrong, it seemed every time England went behind then they started attacking but once they scored they went all defensive. They should have taken advantage of the momentum that they had after Palmer equalised but no they dropped back again and it cost them.

Reminded me a bit like watching Spurs before Ange took over. :D
 
PES4eva said:
He has had a great run but it’s typical English mentality to call for his head. Our media will probably tear him and the team to pieces in the morning. Already started to see it happen in this forum. It really is a shame because he’s our most successful manager in modern times.
Click to expand...
Exactly that.
Plus to be honest, a Von oben mentality regarding the quality of team/players (thinking they're better than any team on the planet)

But yeah, think he's done a great job under his reign
 
rockstrongo said:
Exactly that.
Plus to be honest, a Von oben mentality regarding the quality of team/players (thinking they're better than any team on the planet)

But yeah, think he's done a great job under his reign
Click to expand...
I don’t think people think we are the best team on the planet but before the euro actually started we were the best team on paper and the bookies made us favourites to win it. They don’t make a team favourites for no reason, they’re not in the business of losing money.
Of course we soon gave up the position of favourites as the tournament went on based on form. Anyway, it really is a shame for us, we’ve waited so long for a trophy.
 
geeeeee said:
I think he should have won something with the players that he has had along with other nations being poor for the last few years.

In this tournament he has reminded me a bit like Ten Hag at United, getting fortunate because of the 'big name' players and not really having the correct tactics. I noticed Kane has been getting a lot of stick which is fair enough but I think he is unfit and slowed down a bit since playing in the Bundesliga, I think a lot of the players were poor for England in this tournement from an attacking aspect. But again I think the manager got tactics wrong, it seemed every time England went behind then they started attacking but once they scored they went all defensive. They should have taken advantage of the momentum that they had after Palmer equalised but no they dropped back again and it cost them.

Reminded me a bit like watching Spurs before Ange took over. :D
Click to expand...
Last euro was down to bad luck really, can't blame him for a missed penalty shoot out, this one, Spain were a lot better tbh.
But yes, maybe it was him calling the team back instead of going for a winner after the equalizer (or was that down to the team not pushing fw?)

And not really agreeing on other teams having fallen behind in quality, yeah some absolutely, but it's always been a few very good teams during his run.
But this championship everything was really going England's way, look at the path to the final Vs Spain's
 
PES4eva said:
I don’t think people think we are the best team on the planet but before the euro actually started we were the best team on paper and the bookies made us favourites to win it. They don’t make a team favourites for no reason, they’re not in the business of losing money.
Of course we soon gave up the position of favourites as the tournament went on based on form. Anyway, it really is a shame for us, we’ve waited so long for a trophy.
Click to expand...
You can see media/social media every time a English club side is to play a mid tier Spanish/German/Italian club
It's farm club this and farm club that.
That's what I mean by "thinking the best team/league on the planet" roughly said
 
rockstrongo said:
You can see media/social media every time a English club side is to play a mid tier Spanish/German/Italian club
It's farm club this and farm club that.
That's what I mean by "thinking the best team/league on the planet" roughly said
Click to expand...
Ah right yeah. I’d say a mid tier La Liga/ Bundesliga team is probably on a similar level to a mid tier premier league team with the premier league possibly being only slightly stronger. Definitely not farm clubs in the sense of being inferior teams but financially there’s not many mid tier teams from those leagues that could withstand a player transfer raid from a upper premier league club. However a mid tier Italian team is generally seen as a weak opponent these days. Go back 20 years and the Italian league was arguably one of the strongest if not the strongest league in Europe. It all goes around and around though. There will be a time where other leagues will become financially strong but at the moment the premier league definitely has the financial clout.
 
PES4eva said:
He has had a great run but it’s typical English mentality to call for his head. Our media will probably tear him and the team to pieces in the morning. Already started to see it happen in this forum. It really is a shame because he’s our most successful manager in modern times.
Click to expand...
I was one of those calling for his head especially after the poor group stage run, I started to humble myself and admit you know what, credit where it's due, he's still got us deep into a 2nd final and have to admire that, but my view is that nothing lasts forever and every reign must come to an end at some point.

His job ultimately isn't just to get us to finals, his job is to win them and with the talent he has, he should've found a way to do so, so in that sense, he's failed to meet what's expected of him as a manager, to win trophies.

Prime ministers & presidents can't rule forever, they eventually have to step down and fresh hands take the reigns. And I'm saying this as a Liverpool fan who is sad to see Klopp go and he accomplished a lot more than Southgate, but you have to let the man walk away with dignity.
 
Best team won the tournament them and Georgia were the only teams in the tournament who were exciting and fun to watch.

Southgate will go now - Amazing record for England and deserves respect, but personally I won't miss him.
Results have been excellent the style of football has been shocking.

Also stand by what I said a week or so ago - This has been the worse international tournament in my life time, it so just so boring and lacklustre.

Hopefully FIFA and UEFA look at this and think maybe increasing the amount of teams in tournaments isn't a good thing.
I am dreading to think how shite the Champions League is going to be next season with the stupid league format so they can get 2 more league games out the tournament and another knockout round - Football Manager has shown me how shite the new system is with no consequences for losing.
 
Besides Foden, Rice and Walker performances in this tournament were below their average level.
 
bsmaff said:
Best team won the tournament them and Georgia were the only teams in the tournament who were exciting and fun to watch.
Click to expand...
not Turkey ! their matchs were amazing to watch in term of fast transition and goal chances at the last minutes of the game
 
rockstrongo said:
Last euro was down to bad luck really, can't blame him for a missed penalty shoot out, this one, Spain were a lot better tbh.
But yes, maybe it was him calling the team back instead of going for a winner after the equalizer (or was that down to the team not pushing fw?)

And not really agreeing on other teams having fallen behind in quality, yeah some absolutely, but it's always been a few very good teams during his run.
But this championship everything was really going England's way, look at the path to the final Vs Spain's
Click to expand...

Last euro against Italy can be bad luck because it was a penalty shoot out but my thinking is that it shouldn't have got to that stage. Scored a goal then went all defence. Italy were not great, and did not even qualify for the World Cup afterwards.

Lost to not a great Croatia side in the World Cup after that.

It is not all the manager’s fault but seeing no pattern of attacking football, being very reserved and cautious over a few tournaments with different players tells me that he has some influence over the style of football.

I just think if they had gone for it more they had a chance, especially after the Palmer goal. They had the momentum and then went back in their shell. England actually have a very good team but had shackles on. ;)
 
God I hate that feeling when a tournament is over. The emptiness. Still, club football has returned for me already. Bye bitches!

Jkz.

Tournament was a mixed bag. From a Scotland point of view it was a disaster. Worst team in the tournament at a canter.

As a football fan it was a sandwich. I thought the group stages were good, and the semis and the final were decent. In the middle it was more miss than hit.

And actually being there was magic. Unforgettable. And the fact I saw the eventual, deserving, champions made it all the better.

If I were English I think I'd want Southgate to stay. Mainly because I can't see an outstanding candidate to replace him. You'll find better tacticians for sure, but Southgate the bloke is a very tough act to follow. Can you imagine going from Southgate, a proper man, to High Performance Howe sticking up Michael Jordan quotes in the changing room. Yuck.

bsmaff said:
Also stand by what I said a week or so ago - This has been the worse international tournament in my life time, it so just so boring and lacklustre.

Hopefully FIFA and UEFA look at this and think maybe increasing the amount of teams in tournaments isn't a good thing.
I am dreading to think how shite the Champions League is going to be next season with the stupid league format so they can get 2 more league games out the tournament and another knockout round - Football Manager has shown me how shite the new system is with no consequences for losing.
Click to expand...

Seen this argument a few times and don't agree with it. The worst part about the tournament was the big players and teams not showing up. The biggest pile of shite by far was France and Portugal - two of the best squads in the tournament. You said yourself, Georgia, supposedly the weakest side in the tournament, were great to watch.

There's maybe too much football (or, more importantly, too much travel) throughout the season which leads to fatigue. And that will only get worse with more bloat (expanded CL, Club World Cup, etc).
 
geeeeee said:
I just think if they had gone for it more they had a chance, especially after the Palmer goal. They had the momentum and then went back in their shell. England actually have a very good team but had shackles on. ;)
Click to expand...
You're absolutely right, should have gone for it then.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
If I were English I think I'd want Southgate to stay. Mainly because I can't see an outstanding candidate to replace him. You'll find better tacticians for sure, but Southgate the bloke is a very tough act to follow. Can you imagine going from Southgate, a proper man, to High Performance Howe sticking up Michael Jordan quotes in the changing room. Yuck.
Click to expand...
It is conflicting, Southgate is testified to be very likeable, most of the players value him and has built a great morale for the squad that has been absent in previous eras. The reality is being a nice guy doesn't always mean you keep your job, there's a reason why managers and not even just in football, in day to day life are ruthless and are there to accomplish things, not to be your pal.

Of course I'm not saying we need a miserable sod of a coach, there needs to be a balance between the two but the reason managers like Ancelotti, Pep and (in the past, Mourinho) are so successful is because they have to make tough pragmatic decisions and didn't care about validation from players and fans, that's why their tenure in volatile club football posts is so long.
Flipper the Priest said:
There's maybe too much football (or, more importantly, too much travel) throughout the season which leads to fatigue. And that will only get worse with more bloat (expanded CL, Club World Cup, etc).
Click to expand...
This is the main problem, the capitalist aspect of the world and the need to make even more money than the previous even though it's not necessary ruins and corrupts all. It's Goddarts Law. When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.

Essentially quantity over quality for the sake of squeezing as much profit out of games means the quality of football and the wellbeing of players will inevitably suffer.
 
I can't think of another manager who gets praise for consistently getting a team *quite far* in tournaments, without actually winning anything. With a team largely comprised of players from "the best league in the world", that should be enough?

Maybe I would agree with that assessment, if not for the ridiculous (and typically English) run of good fortune labelled as "grit" or "class" by the fans (cos we're "bloody English and we just get it done don't we") - i.e. getting what should have been the easiest run to the final in existence, and having to rely on 90th/96th minute goals (one of which was from pure lump-it-in, fuck the tactics desperation), extra time and penalties.

He's not got exactly got us to the final with a pub team, yet he's made us play like one all the way there. Middlesbrough tactics aren't going to get us to another final. Sorry, and this is coming from a place of hurt right now I admit, but he's got to go. More than anything else, the players deserve better.
 
I'm not deliberately trying to rub salt into the wounds, but I saw this interesting post on twitter...

Screenshot_20240715_120955_Reddit.jpg.01b767ca714ea3596a1064b3ddf5680f.jpg

I know it's a bit of playground arithmetic but it does lend itself to the argument that England maybe aren't quite as good as they like to believe they are, and that the side of the draws they've found themselves on have been a big factor in Southgate's tournament record. Added into that their relegation from the Nations League 'A' section, and it's not a stretch to say that England's record against top-ten teams isn't brilliant.

I think he'll go, for what it's worth. I don't see how he can stay on given the reactions of the fans online. I don't think the negative tactics are unique to Southgate mind you (Mr Clarke I'm looking at you) but when the tide of public opinion goes against you it's an unrecoverable position.

England need to bin off Kane now. Watkins is hardly a spring chicken, but he should be around till at least the next Euros, and there a few others coming to the end of their international careers you'd think. It's a good chance, if there is to be a new manager, to get ready for a new tournament cycle.

There are actually some quite striking parallels with Scotland's situation (expectations of success aside). We have a manager who is perceived to be negative and seems to stick to his preferred players (the only defence would be the injuries to the likes of Hickey, Paterson, Ferguson & Dykes). He's probably also earned the right to make the decision if he stays on for himself but it might be quite hard to win back some elements of the support. I think that given Croatia and Poland had poor tournaments we have a good opportunity to stay up in Nations League A, but Clarke needs to be far more proactive and willing to trust new players (especially Sir Lawrence of Shankland).

Anyway, club football is back north of the border and I'm excited to see what Scott Brown can achieve.
 
Southgate have done a great job, 1 semi final and 2 finals in 4 competitions isn't at all bad for a NT who didn't won anything since 1966. England always struggled in this tournament and now with Southgate they reached another level.. it reminds me of Mourinho with Real Madrid.. he didn't win CL with them but played 3 semi-finals in every season, and the season after he left they played a final and won it.

So now, if he will leave.. and the next manager don't reach the 1/8 of the next WC.. people will realize the level reached when Southgate was there.
 
I wonder how far down the Premier League/Championship ladder to find someone that would prefer the England job. Perhaps Graham Potter will be interested as he is available, but my guess is you would have to go down further than you'd expect (and that applies to a lot of international manager positions, which are not as highly-coveted as it would seem).

Southgate has done a great job with England and is unquestionably the best national team manager they've ever had. As an outsider, my perception of England has always been that they have more or less achieved exactly what they should have at this level over the last 30-35 years of watching them — they've never been "best team" material and are almost always eliminated by a better team with better technical ability. It's not a knock to say they have never been very exciting to watch, and they have always been a group of strong individuals who never quite click as a team. Even if you chose a combined England-Spain XI (I hate those), you might take over half of them from England based on their individual quality and club form. Southgate has actually made it so that England deserve to be among the contenders, rather than just hype from a loud media.

My initial criticism of the 24-team Euros is that they really drag on and offer nothing in the middle as being truly exciting, unfortunately, was correct. I'd say the teams looked more fatigued at this point, rather than short of ideas. The 48-team World Cup is going to face a similar issue, and it's a shame, because the last three World Cups, especially, on the field have been nearly perfect.
 
Chris Davies said:
And he's gone!
Click to expand...
Apparently this was always going to be his decision whether we won the Euro or not. I would have been ashamed of the FA if he got sacked rather than him stepping down.

I think Capello has the best win ratio (not including Allardyce in charge for 1 game) of anyone for England but he was in charge for 42 games and Southgate was in charge for 102 games.

The problem England are going to have is that if they want an English manager it’s going to have to be a compete punt on people like Potter or Howe otherwise we will have to bring in a foreign manger. If we do that and win a trophy, people will then say we won because we had a foreign manager.

I know you wanted him out, despite having one of the best win ratios but I personally feel that International football is different than club football. I saw you mention about not winning a trophy however theres only 1 trophy to be won per outing. There’s no sort of top 4 or 5 sneak into champions league, or extra avenues of winning anything. Either the team wins said international tournament or they don’t. So even if we had whoever you consider to be the greatest manager in the history of football, there’s a high chance it won’t make a difference since it’s knock out football.
If this were a euro league instead of knockout (not talking about nations league where everyone fields their B teams) then we would have probably been champions 3 times in a row.
 
PES4eva said:
I know you wanted him out, despite having one of the best win ratios but I personally feel that International football is different than club football. I saw you mention about not winning a trophy however theres only 1 trophy to be won per outing. There’s no sort of top 4 or 5 sneak into champions league, or extra avenues of winning anything.
Click to expand...
Hey, we might even be able to win a Nations League too! How dare you dismiss such a prestigious time honoured championship!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom