The Retrogaming Thread! [8-bit/16-bit/32-bit/64-bit]

[vialli82]

What patch did you apply? Will be interested in applying it and seeing the changes!

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/6963/

Sorry bro i forgot to mention it. There's multiple patch, but i applied the one who switch with the Korean Sprite and the Background colors "who hurts my eyes" said the hacker.
There's also another patch in the attached file, a small surprise (Snes version) it was on my desktop but didn't put on my Raspberry yet

Spoiler

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3473/

 

[millossobek]

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/6963/

Sorry bro i forgot to mention it. There's multiple patch, but i applied the one who switch with the Korean Sprite and the Background colors "who hurts my eyes" said the hacker.
There's also another patch in the attached file, a small surprise (Snes version) it was on my desktop but didn't put on my Raspberry yet

Spoiler

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3473/

Thanks man!! It'll be really cool to play the game in Korea, give it a nice touch.. Will try them both and let you know what I think of it!

 

[vialli82]

It's only the sprite which changed, the game is still patched on the US version.

You have to took Korean version (well, if you don't care about dialogs) to get the Korean map. The original name is:
"Hwarang-ui Geom (화랑의검)"


Also, there's an "FM chip" for sound on the Master System II i think (not sure about the first), some game got enhanced music on it.
On emulator you can active it and the music/sounds is better.
It was because the first MS got the same soundchip as SG-1000 i believe, while FM was the one used for Gamegear.

A little/big post but small talk about Portable as there's so much to say from the time, especially the 2 first "big", focusing on the Gamegear:

About GG : it got a bigger colors palette and more shiny, but it's not really comparable to the Master System as the games resolution was smaller... But i remember well, to me Gamegear games looked like Megadrive on small screen practically. Shinobi GG was like a Megadrive game to me.
Also, there was a thing sold to watch TV lol, i didn't brough it lol :



It was the good thing about portable : you didn't saw that much pixels. Especially on that console.
The only (big) issue which killed that portable was the very low batteries to change : too much back-light. Well, we all complained about GameBoy not having it : but they sorted all sort of GB with backlight on it : but it didn't used the same "full" system too much demanding as the GamerGear.

But now that i play on a bigger screen even with filters, graphisms and too big sprite size for the screen are obvious from console of that era.
On GBA if you put "Anti-Aliasing" Shader on RetroArch (Shaders > filters). I tried with many games, it was even more effective than for Snes.
GBA missed 2 buttons for me, like the Snes, that's why i didn't liked it that much.

Same for PSP but just for PES lol, no L2/R2 (all PS2 moves could be done with the right stick... But it's not natural). But portable, except GB suffered from 2 things :
1. Less buttons and it was annoying to play port naturally even if there was enough place for it. Even the Gamegear should have 3 buttons.
2. a way to highlight the screen without taking too much battery (GBColors and Gba "semi-backlight" system was still not light enough to play when it's dark)

Atari Lynx was also in color, but no backlight i think.

Otherwhise Gamegear was an awesome console when it was out and the game on it from Sega ports, just that devs didn't believed in that console and they were right due to the big issue which was the battery durability (2 hours to 3 hours depending batteries).
I played with or rechargeable battery or with a power outlet lol, there were more or less outlet everywhere so i didn't carried, and it was... In color FFS! And the LCD screen was a beauty.

Never brought a GBA : was too old and less interest by portable console, but when i see now the game who was on it... Damn, it was genius.
When the first GB was out, i became a big big fan of portable, then less after GG.

 

[vialli82]

Two games, the sequel of Spellcaster on Master System which was more interesting, but not more fun (to me). The other is more Arcade while the one is a mix Plateform - RPG

Spellcaster (Master System) Action is good and the story is too.





Now, i would mention something really weird about the sequel : many sprites are removed and changed between the Occidental and Japanese version.
The "real" is normally the japanese version. Other censored for some countries probably more Orientals etc.

Mystic Defender (Megadrive, Euro-American version)




And like we talked about censorship on another post a bit "unbelievable", here's a big one:

The hero isn't like a mix between Hokuto No Ken and Saint Seiya like Spellcaster and Mystic Defender... But the hero evolved in a badass Monk exorciser (well, a Shaman) to exorcise ennemies.
I don't remember if there's a version which enemies explodes with blood or if there's only differents colors and ennemies sprites too (about it it's sure)


Kujaku Ou 2 (Mystic Defender jap version)

 

[Madmac79]

@vialli82 Had a Game Gear as well as I think I already written.. yeah amazing console if it wasn't for the fact batteries were indeed so short lived lol.

Exactly as you said, graphic looked so clean and definite in that little screen. Then you play it in the emulator and it's an absolutely alien experience compared with that one. It's a bit like with N64 - emulators "clean" the blur native effect and gives you an hi-res visual, but some games weren't meant for that.. so while you have a Mario 64 that still looks ace even without blur, if you try to play for example an Iss chapter on the emu you can "appreciate" player models that look so pointy and weird without the blurring effect. But it could be said for many many other titles.

I can't remember if I already talked about the games I had on GG lol. I'm sure I wrote about Double Dragon, the rest I'm not. Maybe I should start keeping note of the ones I name here cause it feels impossible to recall now 😅

 

[slamsoze]

It's only the sprite which changed, the game is still patched on the US version.

You have to took Korean version (well, if you don't care about dialogs) to get the Korean map. The original name is:
"Hwarang-ui Geom (화랑의검)"


Also, there's an "FM chip" for sound on the Master System II i think (not sure about the first), some game got enhanced music on it.
On emulator you can active it and the music/sounds is better.
It was because the first MS got the same soundchip as SG-1000 i believe, while FM was the one used for Gamegear.

A little/big post but small talk about Portable as there's so much to say from the time, especially the 2 first "big", focusing on the Gamegear:

About GG : it got a bigger colors palette and more shiny, but it's not really comparable to the Master System as the games resolution was smaller... But i remember well, to me Gamegear games looked like Megadrive on small screen practically. Shinobi GG was like a Megadrive game to me.
Also, there was a thing sold to watch TV lol, i didn't brough it lol :

View attachment 177899

It was the good thing about portable : you didn't saw that much pixels. Especially on that console.
The only (big) issue which killed that portable was the very low batteries to change : too much back-light. Well, we all complained about GameBoy not having it : but they sorted all sort of GB with backlight on it : but it didn't used the same "full" system too much demanding as the GamerGear.

But now that i play on a bigger screen even with filters, graphisms and too big sprite size for the screen are obvious from console of that era.
On GBA if you put "Anti-Aliasing" Shader on RetroArch (Shaders > filters). I tried with many games, it was even more effective than for Snes.
GBA missed 2 buttons for me, like the Snes, that's why i didn't liked it that much.

Same for PSP but just for PES lol, no L2/R2 (all PS2 moves could be done with the right stick... But it's not natural). But portable, except GB suffered from 2 things :
1. Less buttons and it was annoying to play port naturally even if there was enough place for it. Even the Gamegear should have 3 buttons.
2. a way to highlight the screen without taking too much battery (GBColors and Gba "semi-backlight" system was still not light enough to play when it's dark)

Atari Lynx was also in color, but no backlight i think.

Otherwhise Gamegear was an awesome console when it was out and the game on it from Sega ports, just that devs didn't believed in that console and they were right due to the big issue which was the battery durability (2 hours to 3 hours depending batteries).
I played with or rechargeable battery or with a power outlet lol, there were more or less outlet everywhere so i didn't carried, and it was... In color FFS! And the LCD screen was a beauty.

Never brought a GBA : was too old and less interest by portable console, but when i see now the game who was on it... Damn, it was genius.
When the first GB was out, i became a big big fan of portable, then less after GG.

Hahaha... mate.... I've watched the EURO 1996 knock out stage, in my cousin's GameGear with Antenma expansion, in a RV caravan, where we used to spend summer vacation, when my parents where younger and a little bit hippies!!

I remember it was a lot sensitive with the antenna, since we were outside of the urban area, in a remote beach camp

 

[Madmac79]

Hahaha... mate.... I've watched the EURO 1996 knock out stage, in my cousin's GameGear with Antenma expansion, in a RV caravan, where we used to spend summer vacation, when my parents where younger and a little bit hippies!!

I remember it was a lot sensitive with the antenna, since we were outside of the urban area, in a remote beach camp

So cool! Must have felt like an adventure. Anyway, man, I've always wanted one. Having a tv "of your own" at that age would have felt like the ultimate independence thing, even if it was just that few inches of the Game Gear screen. Unfortunately it never happened for me .

I imagine the tv thing was more consuming than games? Or the same?

 

[slamsoze]

So cool! Must have felt like an adventure. Anyway, man, I've always wanted one. Having a tv "of your own" at that age would have felt like the ultimate independence thing, even if it was just that few inches of the Game Gear screen. Unfortunately it never happened for me .

I imagine the tv thing was more consuming than games? Or the same?

Yeah, it was a lot fun for a kid, leaving all day by the sea, sleeping and waking up, by the sound of the waves. We enjoyed a lot as a kids, but when i became a teenager, i found ot boring. Teenage issues...

But as a parent now, i find it too free spirited, or risky for little children, i wouldn't do it for such long times, like two weeks. Sometimes, when my father's holiday from work was finished, we used to stay there with my mother and other relatives, and my father was going in the morning to his job, and then come back in the afternoon and night, for a whole month maybe.

Now that my parents are in their late 60's, they usually go for an afternoon only, just to take a bath and back home, but my wife doesn't want to go even for some hours, she is even younger than me, a pure 90s kids. So is scared of the Nature things!!!

As for the power supply, i can't recall now, i think my cousin had either AC adapter, or that plugin that goes in the cigarette lighter in car and RV caravan.

Also he had the rechargeable kit by SEGA, cause he was completely against the AA batteries.

As for the picture quality, it was decent enough excluding the screen size of course. But if you think that the best TV was a Trinitron, the picture quality, was in decent levels.

 

[vialli82]

Yes i remember well your post, as i owned one too (didn't mentionned it).
Didn't know somoene owned it @slamsoze , well i was the only one of my friends owning a gamegear (anothers guys i know owned one not from my entourage)
It was by far less expensive than at small TV (it remember as it was a big fashion stuff at the time : tiny TV) my father wanted one, but a real one lol, i purposed him the add-on but not interested. He loved gadgets and small usefull stuffs.
Well he didn't brought one.

There's should be a tons of game without that issue : it was a little technology jewel at that time.
Also i never tried it but there another Sega portable, just because it wasn't officially out but made by sega :

SEGA NOMAD, or simply : a megadrive portable (no games only for that console)
Bigger screen also Megadrive got an high resolution (more than snes, similar to PSX) so i can't imagine how good MD games was looking like on that console :



Sega made tons of console and prototype console, also Mega CD made with Phillips for example, Panasonic etc. too much brand took the Sega-CD with for example with 4x or 8x the CD loading (Sega CD was... 1x lol, loading time were long)


Never out : The Sega Neptune too (32x + megadrive all in one) first and second model. Let's admit it, the black console from Sega was less toy and more badass than any other console. They were pro for all design. Only Dreamcast




And finally, now, this is not a derivated console but a real one made by sega :
the Sega Multi - Mega, one of the rarest console in the market they did.
There was also some games which used both 32X and Sega CD power, but i think there's only 2 games (don't remember really)



EDIT/ I was wrong : it was out on 1994 and ONLY sega CD and genesis all in one. I didn't found a all-in-one Sega CD/Megadrive/32X unfortunately.
But you could've add a 32x on it of course.

Now there's one issue with the 32X :

One thing people often don't know, same for me i learned it years ago : 32x was pretty powerful alone. BUT there was an issue but the devs were aware of it :
-When it was plugged in the Megadrive, the 32x loss the full of his speed-power, as it was mixed with the Megadrive CPU : in fact it slowed down the 32X cpu core... Almost by 1/3.

I would like to know what a 32x console conceived without Megadrive CPU only would have done. It wouldn't rivalise with PSX, but for the price, on several country like South America etc. it could has been a real success as a "secondary" console, but primary for less rich people
Didn't have brought Saturn but i would have buy that one for the probable cheap price as a secondary "2d" console.

Saturn is another case : it was very difficult to handle because firstly, it was made for 2D games, and some 3D elements then they changed later when they saw the PSX by adding one chip. So harder to program for the devs.
Also, it was the best 2D console never made, with the cartridge to add memory on console, there were mode possibility than the Neo Geo.

Remember that the PSX struggled to ports Neo Geo game, with lower resolution etc.

That's all for the SEGA story mates! I got some envy to talk about all of it. I'm fascinated by SEGA from that era. Sorry if some found it boring lol.

 

[vialli82]

Sincerely guys... With the emulator, PC and Android state which replicate practically exactly all 16 bits games and 8 bits; also 32 bits too (Arcade 2d games are often 32 bits, even 128 or 64 even if it's in 2D) : are you still interested by the "mini" console like NES, future Megadrive etc?? There's not even any enhancements, by far less than an emulator can made.

With one Raspberry and an O.S. emulator (based on Retroarch like Recalbox, Batocera... Also if you buy a strong Odroid less expensive than a PS1 mini : you can play like PSP games, Dreamcast, N64 without issue.

Personnally i don't care at a point, only if they did an N64 mini i would perhaps be interested. Even if i'm not the biggest fan of the catalog, i liked SM64, SMKart 64, but i played too much. Banjoo and Kazoie, Yoshi Island and Killer Instinct Gold. Golden Eye i read was a classic but never tried.

Like @Madmac79 said earlier there were some game done with blur and fog effect and others not.
Emulator didn't reproduce it so you got some weird looking game which was good looking on the original N64.

Zelda, i stopped after the Snes version, and tried a bit the GB and GBA one. But in 3D.... I don't know why, i'm not attracted and lazy to play.

 

[slamsoze]

Sincerely guys... With the emulator, PC and Android state which replicate practically exactly all 16 bits games and 8 bits; also 32 bits too (Arcade 2d games are often 32 bits, even 128 or 64 even if it's in 2D) : are you still interested by the "mini" console like NES, future Megadrive etc?? There's not even any enhancements, by far less than an emulator can made.

With one Raspberry and an O.S. emulator (based on Retroarch like Recalbox, Batocera... Also if you buy a strong Odroid less expensive than a PS1 mini : you can play like PSP games, Dreamcast, N64 without issue.

Personnally i don't care at a point, only if they did an N64 mini i would perhaps be interested. Even if i'm not the biggest fan of the catalog, i liked SM64, SMKart 64, but i played too much. Banjoo and Kazoie, Yoshi Island and Killer Instinct Gold. Golden Eye i read was a classic but never tried.

Like @Madmac79 said earlier there were some game done with blur and fog effect and others not.
Emulator didn't reproduce it so you got some weird looking game which was good looking on the original N64.

Zelda, i stopped after the Snes version, and tried a bit the GB and GBA one. But in 3D.... I don't know why, i'm not attracted and lazy to play.

Well, first of all, nice reading about SEGA. I was a Nintendo fan, as a kid, you know when we were immature and and used to pick sides, just because my X friend does this, or my Y cousin does the other.

But always admired their "darker" theme and their innovative style. Saturn was very good console and Dreamcast was an amazing one, much ahead of its time. Still regret that i didn't buy one, back in 2002, after its discontinued, there was a massive clearance of stock, with titanic discounts, i remember a store in the city i went to study for University, in 2004, it was selling Dreamcast, cheaper than a Gameboy Advance. Still regret my hesitation ti buy it.

Judging from a lot documentaries I've seen on the net, they were always faster than their competitors , but their timing was bad and oli think they were consumed more by their rivalry, vs Nintendo and vs Sony latter.

Especially the Dreamcast console, they created something superior to everything back then, but it was completely in the middle of PS1/N64 and PS2/Xbox gap.

And from what i read, they used to spend a lot for production of Sega Saturn and marketing campaigns, while they could just make better deals with 3rd party studios, and have a better catalogue. Even Dreamcast (again) which had much more decent catalogue, was not close to PSX or PS2, or Nintendo 64 catalogue.

IIRC, even GameCube did better than Dreamcast in marketing.

Even the fact, before Genesis, that they changed mascot, from Alex Kidd to Sonic, in order to compete with Mario, shows that they were focused a lot on rivals, more than needed

 

[slamsoze]

And the mini console, now you hit me hard, i didn't want to write another wall of text today, but you trigger my sensitive spot .

Well the short version is, that i do not like them as functional machine. If anyone buys it as a collector, and keep it sealed or exhibit it , in a special shelf or playroom, that's okish for me. But to buy it in order to play games, out of nostalgia or whatever, i find it unacceptable, at least in my eyes, because of high cost and very small catalogue of games.

End of Short, now Long Version

And what pisses me off more, is people that buy it, when i told them "dude why do you buy this, you can play anything on an emulator, especially SnES , Genesis and NES we have top and bug-free emulation since 2000, on any average PC of today"....And their response was "it is just nostalgia mate"....

And after a couple of months, they jailbreak/homebrew it, playing other roms... I mean, maybe i am the crazy here, but whats the purpose of doing lifehacks to create an emulator inside an "emulator" , when you had it from the beginning for free, in your freaking PC!!!????

At the very beginning, when i saw price+games, I considered it as a pure moneygrab. Just milk money from the nerds.

And then i think again, and I realised, that the target group of those minis, maybe was not the average nerds/joe/people like us, that still playing video games from the childhood. I believe it is more targeting those guys that stopped video games back it their days, and lost connection with the progress of gaming amd emulation.

You know , i am 36 years old, as easy may look to me and you to find some emulator and some roms, put them in a USB stick and play everywhere, someone that gave up back in 2001 when we were 15 years old, or continued to play very casual the modern only games, maybe he never wanted to mess around with an emulator, especially in the early days that most emulators needed to make a "ritual" in order to play properly, you know typical staff, bad bios, bad UI, bad roms, etc.

Like how, is now my relationship with GameCube emulation .I am only recently in a level that i make everything work correctly, from technical staff, and i only miss the Horse power, cause my Laptop doesn't have GPU.

So maybe, with next PC i will be able to emulate GameCube.

And to point a special note here, maybe, maybe, maybe x100 times, i would buy a GameCube mini, if it comes ever, not so much for the nostalgia, but because it is the only console i have seen very very rare in my life. With its emulation, i am in good point but still struggling, and the physical console, i never had it, neither a friend of mine, and i think i have played it only once in a console gaming club, maybe i have never played it actually.

It's the only mystery in the Nintendo line for me. But then again , if it is also 99~100€, i will better wait for it to come in Nintendo Switch Online service, cause for 40€ i just paid, and the bonus Mario Kart 8 , and some games from NES, SNes, Genesis and N64 it includes, i find it a better deal, and more convenient to play, i mean on Switch.

For example on Switch, i didn't have problem to pay the extra 20€ , and have all in one, NES, SNES, N64, Genesis plus the Mario Kart DLC i said before. Of course it's still not compared to emulators, but it has bigger catalogue than the minis, 3 games are added every 2 or 3 months, and you can play online in Nintendo dedicated servers,with full support, something that in emulators usually needs workarounds to achieve. Not all emulators, but some of them.

 

[millossobek]

A bit late to the party but I'm here, lol!

Game Gear seemed like a relevation for me at first. I remember that the first time I saw it, I thought it was like 12 bit or something, a combination of 8 bit and 16 bit. Only until later when wikipedia came around did I realize that it was 8 bit! It probably had to do growing up playing gameboy that when GG came around it seemed like it was pushing the envelope, but right now I look at it and yes, I think Master System has overall better quality of games, of course more variety as well.

Now regarding nostalgia, I think a lot of people think retrogamers play these games only for nostalgia, but I actually think a lot of these games are more entretaining than the current ones. Graphics aside, I appreciate the turn on and play nature of the 8-32 bit generation, more direct gameplay, and personally in most cases I find an old school platformer much more fun than an open ended, modern sandbox. Just personal choice.

A clear example of this, at least for me (played this recently and had a blast, posted it before of course):




@vialli82 Those three games look really cool! Mystic Defender (both versions) and Spellcaster. As I've mentioned before, I grew up much more with the NES/SNES than with Master System/Mega Drive, so a lot of these games are complete unknowns to me.. So many gems waiting to be unearthed.. I honestly think I could spend years and years unearthing all of these Sega classics and keep playing them, there are so many to choose from.

 

[millossobek]

Just browsing around Master System games, just came accross this one "Black Belt"! It reminds me a bit of NES' Karate Kid in the way it plays as a platformer and the movements of the main character and the enemies. Another one that seems really fun in its simplicity. I remember enjoying Karate Kid quite a bit (even though it was frustrating at times haha), the first movie was covered in the first tournament stage and then the second part was in Okinawa. But in anycase, "Black Belt" definitely seems worth playing these days, it seems to cover quite different ambiance in stages!

 

[vialli82]

posted that game a tons of page ago it's Hokuto No Ken version EU-US without licence lol
Jap cartridge version (not the same background, even a bit harder for ennemies i think) :



@slamsoze you resume exactly what i think. It's more a "fashion effect" than nostalgia, just to say "i own a Mini-NES" etc.
They don't even know than games they play are emulated on the mini-console. It's not the real mini-hardware.

Personally, by convenience before nostalgia in the same time : i brought a Rasberry Pi 3B and a 3B+ (for my two TV) and installed an O.S. for every emulator to 8 to 32 bits consoles (but for PSX it doesn't bother me to play with just "resolution X2" option)

Then i got those two cases to put my raspberry on it, as i found it more cool on my living room / i can't play unfortunately with my PC on it. That's why the "convient". And i got a lookalike MD and NES.







Also, i don't like to play directly on Computer : i got always to to put my HDMI on the second average sized TV where i work on my Desk/Working room.
But for more advanced game, with a full HD rendering with DuckStation. Or, but i rarely play that console as i'm only interest in 5-6 games, the N64 emulator with an USB N64 pad.

The NESPI case was the first out, i brought it, my mate brought that one + later the SNESPI case. Price varies a lot, mine isn't retroflag.
The second thing by both nostalgia and convenient is (i already posted it) i brought all the gamepad from NES to Megadrive, Well the Saturn version.
I just miss a Neo Geo and Master System pad lol.
(pretty similar). But now, i play only with or a wired PS2 like gamepad, or those two pad which are complete, especially the Snes version with analog stick, L1/L2/R1/R2 and the other, but more Megadrive lookalike : both have been rewarded "controller of the year" by some i don't how it was selected but well... They're awesome pad, especially the second for Arcade game



Now about "camp" @slamsoze , personnally i wasn't in any : i played with the thing i was in possession. BUT my friends were lol.
I owned a Master System but wanted a NES too : the issues is that they solded it too expensive in Belgium like if it's an "rare american" product. Master System was just more popular in my region... And practically twice less expensive, console and cartridge. That's the main reason in fact.

But we exchanged our consoles some weeks, etc., well the issue is there wasn't a store around were i lived who loaned NES games. So i gotted to play with the game the guy i exchanged haved in store lol. I found one Videoclub, but too long from my home... With my velo it wasn't doable lol.

So i remember there haved to loan : PC, Megadrive/Master System, then Snes and PSX, and finally PS2. No Dreamcast game, no N64... Well, just to said i wasn't in any side, and wanted a NES but i liked my Master System. I was more SNES than Megadrive : i sold the Megadrive (big mistake) to get a Snes.

I didn't wanted to sold it, but i dreamed about the pack SNES+Super Mario World from magazine when i saw all the SNES could do.
I through my father would accept two same "16 bits" console in my home. Now, i'm aware that some game are better on Megadrive than Snes, when i through all games where better on SNES... And exclusivity. Too young, not the same era, not as much informed like we are now.

And you're right about Dreamcast : it was out between two generation. Their GD-Rom was the biggest mistake they made instead of having a DVD, that's what "pro" told.

Because that format became so rare... And it's one of the reason too that the Dreamcast was discontinued : a DVD support with a CPU accepting more polygon (example : PES got too much for Dreamcast so it would have been a "lower" version... But the only with anti-aliasing lol)
It was a bit also too focused on their arcade port based, Virtua Tennis and all. But when you see Shenmue and all : that console wasn't weak. Just that the PS2, except that Sony didn't added a very important anti-aliasing chip.

I was wtf and disappointed when i played Tekken and all other first PS2 games : through that Dreamcast rendering was more beautiful in practically every way.

Edit:
Also, like @millossobek not every retro games i play are by nostalgia : but because i found them just different and authentic, sometimes more fun to play a good B-T-A or a Shooter than a current gen game, or a neo-retro indie with pixel arts. Some yes, like Last Battle which is an average game or Altered Beast, but i found my fun on it, and it's quickly finished / Arcade game of course.
Example, i made Demon Crest and Megaman X trilogy like if i was invested on it like a Dark Souls. And prefers it than an Uncharted, never been attired by Assassin Creed etc. (if you said to me it's like a Ninja Gaiden next-generation like it was on 360 and PS2 : then yes i could be interested)

 

[Madmac79]

Edit:
Also, like @millossobek not every retro games i play are by nostalgia : but because i found them just different and authentic, sometimes more fun to play a good B-T-A or a Shooter than a current gen game, or a neo-retro indie with pixel arts. Some yes, like Last Battle which is an average game or Altered Beast, but i found my fun on it, and it's quickly finished / Arcade game of course.
Example, i made Demon Crest and Megaman X trilogy like if i was invested on it like a Dark Souls. And prefers it than an Uncharted, never been attired by Assassin Creed etc. (if you said to me it's like a Ninja Gaiden next-generation like it was on 360 and PS2 : then yes i could be interested)

I'm exactly the same as you in this.

I'd say the absolute majority of retro games I play aren't by nostalgia. I mean yeah sure, sometimes there is some nostalgia element in picking some title compared with another. I'll make an example, when I had covid months ago I was in isolation with only my (really poor) laptop available. Only videogame I played was Super Mario Bros 3 on Snes emu.

Now, ok, I picked it in particular among the others cause I was particularly fond of it.. and that's fine, in the choice memories may sometimes play a role and I admit it without shame. But did I played it for hours cause of nostalgia? Of course not! I played it cause it's entertaining, it's fluid, fun.. level design and visuals are still brilliant even after decades. It's objective to me. Good games are timeless.

There is plenty of other ones I loved as a kid I couldn't bear for more than minutes today. Old repetitive strategy games, late 90ies Fifa.. just to name the first two that popped in my mind. Or conversely I'm sure it's plenty of games I haven't played back then but if I had to take today I'd find still fresh mechanics/art.

It's really that simple, no idea why for somebody it is so hard to accept

 

[millossobek]

Good games are timeless.

Exactly my friend. Couldn't have said it any better. I would add one small quote that sums it up: "It's all about the fun factor, period!"

I'd like to start a friendly discussion topic among us retrogamers.. Which is the superior Mario between Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World?

I think most people would agree that these two are some of the most celebrated Marios out there. And I can definitely see why people would pick one over the other.. In terms of pure enjoyment, which one do you guys prefer and why? To me it is really really close, so close in fact that I cannot choose between them!



I remember that a few months ago, I asked a similar question regarding Double Dragon 2 vs Double Dragon 3.. I picked 3 because of several reasons: Two more playable characters (Chin and Ranzou), more challenging gameplay, smarter enemies, and a wider array of moves.. I remember you guys picked Double Dragon 2 because of the 80's power action movie soundtrack and feel, the atmosphere, gameplay etc.. To me it is really really close between these two DD installments, I really loved them both.. But DD3 takes the cake by the narrowest of margins!

Anyway would love to hear your opinions!

 

[vialli82]

Technically better doesn't mean more entertaining or captivating.

Takes 2015 Bloodborne as an example : it's not technically perferct, there was slowdown at the launch etc. (corrected, and zero with a pro) and still on 30fps.
But the gameplay is so good, the atsmosphere is so captivatig, boss fight and levels so entertaining... All of it without having a storyline "redirected".

You feel free, but you're not, except if you're super good. And artistically, it's a masterpiece, i mean a real one not "for a game".
The level of small details is unrivalled. While you got tons of others games without technically much advanced on PS4, even PS5, which seems poor and repetitive in comparison to to tons of small details, even the ground, the floor, a simple design on a carpet... Everthyng, like really everything seems worked to gives you the impression to be IN the game.

Same for the badass OST when there's a Boss Fight, the fear you start to get as sometimes you discover it without being ready, and with tons of "money" (blood compiled) which permit to upgrade your character.

I talk about it because i wasn't very in good terms with current gen games. Then i found exactly the same is some 16 bits games purposed, the artistic part, the fun and the pressure, the level of detail, the necessary timing (something lost since a long time) the PASSION behind every part of the game : that's why i fall in love in that one, then their others Souls version game(s). Not that i hate the others styles (DMCry i like it for example), but i'm not fully on it like i was o some Retro games, even 20 years after.

But 3 (4 with Demon's Souls) was enough with the Medieval theme. I like it, but from different publisher, and different ambiance(s).

About NG I'm waiting from the Bloodborne copy-paste "Lies of P" and "Monkey King", there's the only games i play right now : Soulsborne-Like, Retro games, and remastered retro like Ghost'n'Goblins Resurrection, Windjammers 2 etc.

 

[vialli82]

Exactly my friend. Couldn't have said it any better. I would add one small quote that sums it up: "It's all about the fun factor, period!"

I'd like to start a friendly discussion topic among us retrogamers.. Which is the superior Mario between Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World?

I think most people would agree that these two are some of the most celebrated Marios out there. And I can definitely see why people would pick one over the other.. In terms of pure enjoyment, which one do you guys prefer and why? To me it is really really close, so close in fact that I cannot choose between them!

View attachment 178305View attachment 178309

I remember that a few months ago, I asked a similar question regarding Double Dragon 2 vs Double Dragon 3.. I picked 3 because of several reasons: Two more playable characters (Chin and Ranzou), more challenging gameplay, smarter enemies, and a wider array of moves.. I remember you guys picked Double Dragon 2 because of the 80's power action movie soundtrack and feel, the atmosphere, gameplay etc.. To me it is really really close between these two DD installments, I really loved them both.. But DD3 takes the cake by the narrowest of margins!

Anyway would love to hear your opinions!

Super Mario 3 is more Mario "basic", 80's... But if you didn't brough a Snes with Super Mario World and finished it, not even at 100% : you can't understand.
People complained about Yoshi and Mario change of "look" (eyes etc.), all would have been different with a sprite more SM3 lookalike : i'm 100% sure.

But in terms of variety and everything else, SMW is by FAR the best Mario 2D never created. Super Mario 3 is to me (what i feel, i don't say what people should feel) more a matter of simplicity. You can do so much things in Super Mario World than it's incomparable to me.

Well, when you see review or Retro talking about game, they always put SMW in background, never SM3... As it's objectively the summum of Mario's games. But if you grown with only one, you will feel SMW a bit less "Mario-basic-ish" while if you play SM3 later, you will like it too, but found the game a bit empty, with a bit too much often the same background, enemies, well it's 8 bits.

There's tons of games which tried to do better than the first SNES version but they all failed.
SMW2 should be more called "Yoshi Island", it's too different and very lookalike (in better) than Yoshi Story.
That's my 2 cents, as i read than people didn't really tried SMW as they discovered it later (and Edit: wasn't tempted to play it).

But when you buy your first SNES with the package : it's another story. Back to home and you turn on your console to continue... And it's hard.

 

[vialli82]

Now, i tried Wario Land, but the 4 on GBA. The 1 to 3 worth it from fans, but it's on GB or GBColors only, and you know as we talked about it : Gameboy/Gamergear games on Emulator or normal screen....

Better to buy a pack emulator/raspberry portable. Didn't brought it, as it was just for playing all portable games : too expensive for what i would have done with.
I like to play console or arcade games on a big/average screen, portable on smaller screen as it's done for (except PSP which give a good rendering, GBA too if you put the good filter it's like Widescreen Snes... But 3DS no, for example, with their 2 screens)

... But the Wario Land on GBA are awesome! It's not like Mario, as it's Wario, the (tons) of move you can do are more brutal, and i really think that the series is more fun and less "childish" than Mario games.
I was on a certain level then for i don't know what reason i stopped. But Wario games, which are a bit of Plateformer Mario Style declination, are really fun. There's a bit a strategy on it, hard fight etc.
I got not idea if you need to know the previous stories or Wario, but the 4 on GBA is one of the best plateformer i played. With the "dash" the "crush" (jump and crush) etc. very let of steam but not brainless

Wario Land 4 (GBA)

 

[slamsoze]

Exactly my friend. Couldn't have said it any better. I would add one small quote that sums it up: "It's all about the fun factor, period!"

I'd like to start a friendly discussion topic among us retrogamers.. Which is the superior Mario between Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World?

I think most people would agree that these two are some of the most celebrated Marios out there. And I can definitely see why people would pick one over the other.. In terms of pure enjoyment, which one do you guys prefer and why? To me it is really really close, so close in fact that I cannot choose between them!

View attachment 178305View attachment 178309

I remember that a few months ago, I asked a similar question regarding Double Dragon 2 vs Double Dragon 3.. I picked 3 because of several reasons: Two more playable characters (Chin and Ranzou), more challenging gameplay, smarter enemies, and a wider array of moves.. I remember you guys picked Double Dragon 2 because of the 80's power action movie soundtrack and feel, the atmosphere, gameplay etc.. To me it is really really close between these two DD installments, I really loved them both.. But DD3 takes the cake by the narrowest of margins!

Anyway would love to hear your opinions!

Well that's a tough pick, i can't take a clear side. I will go with both of them.

I was planning to say, that there is a PES 5 / PES 6 analogy, but there are some things that annoy me in BROS 3 and some in World.

BROS 3 was something back to basics and "basic" as @vialli82 said, especially after the BROS 2, that had completelly different mechanics and approach, than the rest of the series.

World adressed better the drifting and sliding that did exist in older MArio games, that costed me a lot of lifes, falling in the void of the stage.

As for Yoshi, i honstly never had a a problem, and i loved World 2 (Yoshi Island). Could n't go different, as Yoshi Island was in the bundle i bought SNES console, so for many months, it was my only one game. I remember i bought the console on Easter Holidays of 1996, and needed again the summer holidays of 1996, in order to finish it.

Also the order of games, as i played them in timeline was:

1) Super Mario Bros NES
&
2) Super Mario Bros 3 NES

Both in my cousin's NES.
_______________________________________________________

Then in my consoles

3) Super Mario Land in my Gameboy

4) Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 in my Gameboy

5) Yoshi Island in my SNES

6) Super Mario World 1 in my SNES

7) Finally Super Mario Bros 2 in my SNES, when i bought the Super Mario All Stars Collection.

Well, Yoshi Island and Wario games, i love them, as they have different approach and playstyle. Then for all the others, i would say only Super Mario Bros 2, is so different to the others, that i would put them in breakdown comparison.

Also i want to add some BONUS Opinion: As for Mario Bros 3 on SNES MArio All Stars, for me it had a lot QoL improvements, it wasn't just a "remaster". The colour pallet is obviouslly better, in SNES standards, the sprite is less pixelated, or it has more blur effect???, well Mario has a human shape head and not a square one, and in the movement, there is that backpedaling after you jump and press backwards, like a Scooby Doo running animation, that works as a handbreak, to not slide as easy as in older Super Mario.

ALSO the ability to save almost "on the fly", in SNES Super MArio All Stars was a life saver for all 4 Mario Games it includes!!! It saved me from letting he console swithed on for days and days...

I would say it has some better better pseudo-physics, or pseudo inertia, but i thing physics and inertia is a little bit exaggarated words, for such gerne and era of games.

 

[slamsoze]

And just a special mention. Although Super Mario Bros 2 is different, and 3 returned to basics, there were a lot of elements that were used in future games, like gliding in the air while pressing jump in the air, which was used in Yoshi games, lifting opponents as objects and throwing them, which was taken latter in Wario Land, etc.



Now as i was reading to write this post, i was surprised, cause i expected that SUPER MARIO community would hate this game. From what i see, most people love it, in a different way, although there are still those who hate it to the hell. Its reviews seem also god-level, by proffesional critics and casual players though.

 

[vialli82]

@slamsoze i loved SMB2... But it's just the copy of another game, that's why it's not really considered as Super Mario Bros "2" but Super Mario Bros "USA" as it was for that country.

Here's the game where SMB2 was no inspired, but completely copied for. And weirdly, it's one of my favorite of the 3 lol.
It's not that people hate that game : it's just not a real Super Mario. I don't give a f*** : i loved it.

The real 2nd Super Mario Bros is the one called "Lost Levels" in the Super Mario All Stars cartridge.
Sadly, it never been sold anywhere than in japan.

Now the SMB2 original based on that game :

"Doki Doki Panic"



Well the main character face looks like Mario with a turban the shortcut was easy

Now, i'm not a super fan of Mario games after Super Mario 64. Super Mario Galaxy gives me headaches and all derivates Super Mario Bros Plus (or i don't remember the name : looks like SMB1 in 2.5D) i just can't anymore. Too much Mario. Except Mario Kart, but it's not a real Mario and there's all characters.
That's more my kind of racing game or like Wipeout, Burnout than realistic ones... For that : i need a 1500 euro seat with pedals to enjoy 😂
I just can't enjoy it with a controller, too sensitive.

Just to say, SM64 which was a Jewel. And not too "childish" at least too me.

A bit Like Zelda, all my friends are fans, but i stopped after the Snes version, with the regret for not having played the GB version : i learned it's existance a bit too late, so i tried to play on Super Game Boy and didn't liked it. I should have been on a real Game Boy, or the Deluxe version on GB Color.

 

[Madmac79]

Exactly my friend. Couldn't have said it any better. I would add one small quote that sums it up: "It's all about the fun factor, period!"

I'd like to start a friendly discussion topic among us retrogamers.. Which is the superior Mario between Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World?

I think most people would agree that these two are some of the most celebrated Marios out there. And I can definitely see why people would pick one over the other.. In terms of pure enjoyment, which one do you guys prefer and why? To me it is really really close, so close in fact that I cannot choose between them!

View attachment 178305View attachment 178309

I remember that a few months ago, I asked a similar question regarding Double Dragon 2 vs Double Dragon 3.. I picked 3 because of several reasons: Two more playable characters (Chin and Ranzou), more challenging gameplay, smarter enemies, and a wider array of moves.. I remember you guys picked Double Dragon 2 because of the 80's power action movie soundtrack and feel, the atmosphere, gameplay etc.. To me it is really really close between these two DD installments, I really loved them both.. But DD3 takes the cake by the narrowest of margins!

Anyway would love to hear your opinions!

I prefer Mario Bros 3, but it's not to detract anything from Mario World. Fact is I knew MB3 since elementary school, when it had some kind of "legend" status.. I played Mario World way later on the emu, it's hard to have the same affection. Ironically enough tho I never finished MB3 on Nes (where I originally played it first), but years later on the Snes Emu with the all Stars one. As @slamsoze said that's one hell of a port even if it's not radically different.

Anyway I don't want to go in in depth comparisons even cause I'd need to replay Mario World, will probably do in the near future. If I had to say one thing tho is that of Mario Bros 3 I absolutely loved the variety of scenarios.. from the desert to the ice to the land of giant things and so on and on. And those things weren't cosmetic.. they reflected on the gameplay too. But I agree again as Slam said, it's a bit like comparing Ps2 Pes, you can have a favourite but it's hard to impossible (at least for me) to demolish or to really talk bad about one.. they are all lovely in their own, even the "worse" ones. In the end I think any old school Mario out of every kind of console had that magnificent quality that you just picked it up and it kinda carries you forward.. I don't know if i'm explaining myself properly lol, it's one of the few games as a whole saga I know I could just pick and play without risk of boredom.

 

[vialli82]

Yes Mario World was also, for the time, a technical demo of what Snes was able to do, directly and without even added chip.

It's comparable to me, but not if you didn't played both when they were out. If you discovered SMW in emulator 10-15 years later... You can't really measure the impact it was at the time, for everyone who brought the pack SNES+SMW.

I was "outsanded" (i invent words) by SMB3 but mouth open in front of SMW when i discovered both when they were out. The game is objectively and obviously better due to the plateform but if we talk sentimentally, that's another thing which is comparable.

I was just more captivated by one game than the other, so i understand.
Like, for example i way better memories about PES 1 and couldn't stop playing, because it was more fresh and new. All those representation, Del Piero, Zidane, Henry, Batistuta faces never looking so real, the tempo, animations added, how hard it was etc. while i was "yeah cool" about PES 5, even argued than WE9 was better (wrongly : too defensive wasn't better) just because it was the 5th year PES and we played also all Winning eleven (except WE5FE).
Nothing blowing my own eyes. But it's my personnal opinion. I just can't say, like you even if i discovered both in the same time that i prefers PES 5 or 2008 than the 1st. Just too much memories and it was a good period for me etc.

I could say that i got more affect when i replay PES 1 than any other PES. But on the long term... I can't say it's a better game. More balanced yes, but with by far less possibilies regarding football representation in general/variety and what you can do with the 5th.

So no surprise effect, just an evolution of the 4 before the 3 (new engine) in better let's say. But i remember pretty well the 3 in comparison to the 1st, in the same tone, was like a revolution too and an awesome game, even if it was on the same console : the game pushed the NES to his limits.
It's just less hard for me to say which i prefers as i discovered both in their release time, which one affected me the most as i discovered both in the same era and finished both in the same era too.

Edit : for exmple, i played Yoshi Island like a 6 month/a year after it was out. I can't say that the game is better than SMB3 or SMW, even if it was the SNES with Super FX 2 pushed to his limits.

Imagine guys, just graphically, if they used the SFX2 for others games in 2D? They did it for SFII Alpha. I recently saw a comparison and i through there was less animations and all, but not at all. Just a bit slower to start.
It was awesome for the time, but Capcom didn't used it like Nintendo, which created that ship, used it for Yoshi Island.
It was practically 32X level in fact, a bit less faster.

 

[slamsoze]

I prefer Mario Bros 3, but it's not to detract anything from Mario World. Fact is I knew MB3 since elementary school, when it had some kind of "legend" status.. I played Mario World way later on the emu, it's hard to have the same affection. Ironically enough tho I never finished MB3 on Nes (where I originally played it first), but years later on the Snes Emu with the all Stars one. As @slamsoze said that's one hell of a port even if it's not radically different.

Anyway I don't want to go in in depth comparisons even cause I'd need to replay Mario World, will probably do in the near future. If I had to say one thing tho is that of Mario Bros 3 I absolutely loved the variety of scenarios.. from the desert to the ice to the land of giant things and so on and on. And those things weren't cosmetic.. they reflected on the gameplay too. But I agree again as Slam said, it's a bit like comparing Ps2 Pes, you can have a favourite but it's hard to impossible (at least for me) to demolish or to really talk bad about one.. they are all lovely in their own, even the "worse" ones. In the end I think any old school Mario out of every kind of console had that magnificent quality that you just picked it up and it kinda carries you forward.. I don't know if i'm explaining myself properly lol, it's one of the few games as a whole saga I know I could just pick and play without risk of boredom.

And that music on SMW3 on the last world, from the most badass BGM. music around

And that boss stages with Bowsers Flying Ship. It was from the most climatic finale stage scenes.

 

[millossobek]

Great opinions guys. I'll have to replay both (funny fact: I've actually never beaten SMW!), and I am pretty much in the same boat as @slamsoze I can't really pick one. SMB3 has the more classic feel of course, and it did have legendary status in elementary school, I rememember everyone was talking about it. It introduced a lot of variety and elements to the saga, and of course it was just so damn fun lol. SMW was one of those great early flagship SNES release era games, along with Gradius III, Link to the Past, F-Zero, Actraiser, etc.. I remember watching the SMW commercial as a little kid and thinking.. wow we are now officially in the future of videogaming. So yeah, classic elements and innovation of SMB3 (plus fun factor), and the huge world of SMW with the brand-new SNES engine.. It's almost tie for me, or perhaps I'd have to give SMB3 a very slight edge due to more direct gameplay..If SMW fun factor is a 9.5, SMB fun factor is a 10.

Now, SMB2.. It wasn't until a few years ago that I found out that it used Doki Doki panic as a template. But that's not really an issue for me either, I absolutely loved that game as well. As a kid, when I first played it and used Toad to pick up and throw the potion that turned into a door, that whole completely different element to the game was so original, so out there. Makes the whole game worthwhile, I absolutely love it and think it's a classic! (I'll have to play the original Doki Doki panic too sometime!)



And as for SMW2, Yoshi's Island.. It was one of the first games I posted in the thread.. And without a doubt my favorite out of the entire Mario Catalog. Yoshi's Island is just magic, a completely original game in an epic, bizarre (in a good way!!) world that feels like you're in a surrealistic painting, just completely creative. Incredibly fun and with high difficulty, it's a game that got me hooked from the start, and up until today it remains one of my favorite games of all time. Just the whole dynamics and look of it, the feel, is AMAZING fun.

 

[millossobek]

Oh, and also, this song just puts me in an immediate good mood.

 

[Madmac79]

@vialli82 sorry for the delayed response. I think there is a lot of truth in what you said about playing a game on native platform, shock value due to different eras etc., for example at the times I remember idolizing the first Pes (the one I never physically owned on Ps2) cause not only it was a masterpiece, but I could only play it at one of my best friends house, while when I finally had my Ps2 with Pes 2.. it felt so underwhelming compared with the novelty of the first one lol. Fact is that Pes felt like another world of depth compared with Psx games, while when I had Pes 2 the "shock" was gone, it still felt really good but eventually I came to fully appreciate it only recently.. at the times it felt like a bit more fluid Pes (which wasn't a plus anyway to me lol), today I can see it introduced a lot of vital features of the saga like first touch error, refined dribbling and way more varied outcomes in phyisical duels.. but yeah, you can only see certain things later.

Sorry for the post, looks like the Retro Pes corner. I'll remedy by asking something I've been wanting since some time; what's you guys opinion about Street Fighter 2 EX? I have no idea if purists hate these games, where polygons replaced beloved sprite. I remember I bought it for Psx at the times and having very good fun even if it was so different from the originals. It was also the first SF I owned with those special "special" moves. Hitting this Shoryuken (1:55):



was SO damn satisfying.

 

[vialli82]

Yes the first PES is probably my first big shock, the second is not bad but was feeling too easy (In fact it's more free... But not as we wanted to, whatever that's not what were talking about)

Now back to the thread, i took SF alpha EX 1, finished it etc. and spend a pretty good time, there's stuff in more than a simple SF mixed with 3D gameplay.
Fun, i loved it.
I never really liked at the time 2D gameplay in 3D, as there's two type of fighting game, Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Bloody Roar, Soul Edge/Calibur and the other side Street Fighter, KOF, MK, Samurai Shodown etc.

But with the recoil and the "don't care any more" since i tried i really liked the fist and i downloaded and installed the sequel you posted EX2 on my Raspberry : just didn't tried it already, as i installed tons of game those last days on both PS2 and PS1... Managed (finally) to made it work Code Veronica X etc.
The reason i didn't tried SF EX2 yet : completely forgot the game existed, more there were a sequel.

And also PC Engine CD as i found there's tons of gems and arcade port on it, and even more or equal amount of game as the basic cartridge version. I was on "bin cue DDL mode" haha