The Retro-PES Corner

geeeeee said:
Guys can i just say that i am so pleased that i am not on the PES2019 train this year. For the first time ever i will not download the demo and i will not buy the game. I cannot believe that the same conversations are going on about ‘do stats matter?’ ‘how is PA1?’ ‘how is manual shooting?’ These conversations have been going on for years. It should have all moved on by now. All those issues should have been fixed by now. I am so pleased that we have this little corner where we can be talking about the matches themselves and share what we have even from mobile recordings.

It’s about being content and we certainly are here. :)
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Agree with you.

The sad, unquestionable truth is that these latest games are geared primarily to an audience that simply isn't us.
I'll download and try the demo of 2019 anyway, but from what I'm already seeing and reading, unless some side of it will really shock me, it still lacks too many of the things I can't do less in a football game. I'd be happy to be proved wrong, but I hardly see it being the case.

Anyway, we have the retro-corner and for the first time in years I'm completely chill about this release. I'm done with forcing myself to like something because animations are nice, player models looks real, the game is new and so on.. in the older games there is enough immediate depth for decades and that's the only thing that counts. Keepers do come out, stats matters, fouls are there. Why would I set for something less? What's all that brand advancing, new engine talk for if the game have literally less fundamentals and less fun than the past?

Lately, I learned that personally playing with older graphics is a bit problematic at the beginning, but naturally disappear soon if the game is good. While at the opposite, any modern graphical wonder quickly becomes irrelevant when the gameplay is bad or repetitive, or both.

As you put it, it's about being content! It has been years since I had the fun I'm having with the saga combined with our space here. Pretty sure we'll all have a game to play for 2019 :) !
 
miguelfcp said:
@MafiaMurderBag: About that stadium, I swear I was going to say it was the Diamond Stadium, but now I've just played vs. Bayern and saw those goal posts on the Diamond. I've played on that stadium for more than a decade and I had NEVER seen the goal posts before you mentioned it! Part-time rugby stadium, heh? Maybe Konami was going to make a rugby videogame, created a stadium for it, but ended up scrapping the idea though utilizing the model of it for PES.
I sense another Retro-PES conspiracy developing here...

@WhoAteMeDinner: YES! Glad you're carrying on with it. Remember that you can get newgens, instead of only getting default regens like you did previously. If I hadn't gotten those newgens, you bet I'd still be on Div. 2 these days.
Something that will help you and others: when trying to identify who's a newgen or a real player regen on the "newcomers" group, at least on PES2008 newgens appear always on the last page of the newcomers list - on PES6 it must be the same - except for when you sort the group by name, age, salary, etc. Originally, newgens are always on the last page.
Anyways, as I told you a while ago, newgens have typically much better statsheets than the vast majority of any regen ever spawned on the ML, so combined with the tip I gave you above you should have no trouble separating real players from ML newgens.
Good luck!

@geeeeee: Interesting transfer moves there, particularly by Barcelona who's preparing a nice striker core for the future with those two. Never thought that I'd ever praise the AI "general manager/director of football" of a PES game, though!
Regarding PES19, confession time here (on spoilers to avoid off-topic)
I've lost the train a while ago already. It's probably as much the series' fault as it is mine, as I'm not interested anymore in buying game after game like I was doing years ago. I'm now at a point where I have like 30 football games lying around (probably more, if you count Football Manager...) and I've come to the conclusion that it's enough to keep me entertained.
Still, as I said on the first post of the thread, if people are enjoying the latest game that's fine...there's enough room to fit in both new and retro gaming.
Now, another thing I said on the first post, is that unless you're playing PES 12 hours a day or something like that, you'll never get the most out of any new version, before the following version is released. It's impossible. There's so much stuff to do on any sports game, so many ideas to try out, teams to play with, challenges...which is why I believe we're so relaxed and satisfied here on the Corner: we have all the time in the world to do whatever we want on any game we want, whenever and how often we want. You can't not be pleased with that kind of control over your own gaming habits.
Using your "train" analogy, if one isn't happy with the train he's on...get off of it, start building your own, and drive it anywhere you want.
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Thanks @miguelfcp , pal, you always have nuggets of very useful information on games like PES 6 that I am unfamiliar with, am sure that was somewhere in the massive PES 5 online manual we both have on here (240 pages) :SHOCK::SHOCK::SHOCK:.
 
:OT: Premier League Clubs have spent over 1.5 Billion British Pounds on players in this transfer window as of yesterday, according to Sky Sports Boobs.

So, here is the expression on every European club Chief Exec's face, when a more money than sense English club asks about a player..............Yessssssssssss

Frank_Nelson.png
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: You're welcome man. Speaking of which, I've already read most of the manual and I gotta say, it's really a must-read for any Retro-PES enthusiast (or newcomer to the scene). If there's anything that might be considered a "Bible" of Retro-PES, the PES5 guide is definitely close to the definition.

That reminds me of reading that Apple is now worth 1 Trillion, only 16 countries have higher GDP than that value now. We should've never ditched the PES Points currency...
 
miguelfcp said:
@WhoAteMeDinner: You're welcome man. Speaking of which, I've already read most of the manual and I gotta say, it's really a must-read for any Retro-PES enthusiast (or newcomer to the scene). If there's anything that might be considered a "Bible" of Retro-PES, the PES5 guide is definitely close to the definition.

That reminds me of reading that Apple is now worth 1 Trillion, only 16 countries have higher GDP than that value now. We should've never ditched the PES Points currency...
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@miguelfcp , will definitely read more of it as I get back into PES 6, alot more to get a handle on off pitch, than in PES 2 and PES 3, which were: "Just the football Ma'am, just the football." :THINK::THINK::THINK:
 
Man, I can't get enough of Pes 2008.

Just started the usual Konami Cup and had a wonderful Lille-Torino. I picked Lille up almost randomly and I discovered it indeed had a lot of interesting players at the time (Rami, Lichtsteiner, Mirallas, Cabaye, Michel Bastos and most of all legend dutch forward Kluivert). Btw, it resolved in a 0-0 with a lot of midfield play (plenty of fouls, aggressive tackling and tight marking by the Granata) and a penalty the cpu did to me with an hard, super realistic tackle that I wished I could have saved for you guys (I don't play with fraps on and it's impossible to save replays like this one in game :( ), failed by Kluivert (which by the way is still a beast in this game :P). Luckily despite this I won the final shoot-outs.

What a gem this game is!
 
@Chilleverest Not to mention the slow motion dives for a loose ball by the keeper that seem to have been in the last 3-4 versions and looking through the demo thread I saw what looked similar with a header. I'd happily take the visuals applied to the retro pes's (although thanks to Juce and kingsley and others with kitserver and so on those games can play at today's resolutions as well) but the gameplay is just meh. I do play 17 from time to time as I got it for £10 on a steam sale and it's ok for a bit but as soon as I fire up one of the older one's it's chalk and cheese. I might download the 19 demo at some stage but I'm in no rush to do that and I certainly won't be forking out £50 for it or whatever the price is this year.

Meanwhile I'm having a blast in my test Bundesliga on pes6 at the moment. I only really meant to play a few games with it but I've got really into it now and had some really great games. After a 3 game winning start and level at the top with Bayern and Monchengladbach I have slipped back some what to a 4-2-3 record at the quarter point of the season. Bayern are 5pts clear at 8-0-1 (18-3) including a really bizarre loss away to Dusseldorf, made even more bizarre because it is Dusseldorf's only win all season so far!
Augsburg appear to be full of goals too and sit in second with 18pts while Gladbach and Stuttgart are hot on their heels on 16pts. I am in 8th on 14. Dusseldorf (3), Hannover (6) and a struggling Schalke (8) are the bottom three at this stage. From 3rd to 15th is just a six point gap though.

So far for me Aranguiz and Bellarabi are the standout performers along with Bender at CB. Hradecky in goal is also playing very well.

Bailey is a promising player however he maybe thinks he's a little better than he is...



And how about this for almost a big contender for goal of the week by Freiburg (CPU)

A lovely through ball by Abrashi, who saw the run of Frantz, he cushioned it with the chest, let it drop and swivelled on it for a superb volley. Unfortunately for him Hradecky made an excellent save to push it just wide


@miguelfcp Re Minanda - see above why I haven't got back to it yet!

@WhoAteMeDinner Where is this manual? Can't say I've ever seen it!
 
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@mattmid: What's the project you're undertaking there, a full Bundesliga?

@WhoAteMeDinner: One of the most interesting things about the guide - should we just start calling it the Retro-PES Bible or just the Bible? - is that it explains what every attribute really does on pitch. Did you and the other retro-maniacs here know that, at least on PES5, the Defense attribute also affects how quickly a player gets up on his feet after performing a sliding tackle? I had no clue about this, or how Technique affects chip shots (not Shot Technique, but Technique really).
 
The Form Curse is a thing, and it has once again affected my ML United after the winter break. Son of a witch!
Lost the 2nd place and am now 4th, way behind league leaders Bayern and Benfica. Thanks to a loss at home vs Porto, we have just 5 point differential between us and the 7th placed, which is triggering the alarm: WEFA competitions are only for 1st-6th placed clubs. If I can't get rid of the curse, maybe we won't have any WEFA next season!

xi8D6rT.jpg


WEFA Championships is over for us. Not a bad performance on our first-ever participation, at least we were somewhat competitive. Now we're on the elimination rounds of the WEFA Masters Cup and our opponent is...London FC!

There's something positive though: we're on the semifinals of the D1 Cup after having beaten the almighty Bayern, favourites to win the competition. Just won 1-0 vs Nancy at home, I'm confident we'll get the passport for the final on the 2nd leg as Nancy is definitely one of the worst teams in the league. This might be our only hope of getting silverware this season; so far our only D1-level silverware is a D1 Cup conquered in Season 5, two seasons ago.
 
@miguelfcp man that was some iron group, anyway. I was sure you would have pulled it out somehow but there is not much to do against the curse unfortunately. Still seems like a wonderful journey anyway!

In regards of the Pes 5 guide.. man, that's truly mind blowing. I had no idea there were such crazy additional effects of the stats like the one you pointed out. Will have to get a copy myself!
 
@miguelfcp - Ah, that's interesting to know that about the RPB ( :) ) with the full explanation of the stats, that's going to be the first bit I read then, will help with the creating of player stats. I like where I am with that at the moment but any new or extra info could make it even better.

Well, after the import csv option came to fruition recently on the pes6 editor I was having a think where to start next and I have never done the Bundesliga so I decided that's where I'd start. I have done all the teams with current squads from transfermarkt but I'm waiting on the season start to finalise the squads and set the formations after the first game which was why I just started a test league on it as well as just to test it out. I'm now part way through the Spanish Primera now as well. I keep getting thoughts of doing several leagues and picking one team in each and playing then through the season. So say there's 10 leagues, play those 10 games each week and so on throughout the season. Then I thought I could go a step further and make any remaining teams that say reach the Group phase of the Champions League and Europa League and pick a team, or perhaps 1 per group, to play out those.

Depends on motivation, I tend to get spurts of it with editing although the import function is going to cut hundreds of hours out of pasting stats in, not to mention the tedium a long session of ctr c, ctr v brings! The least fun part of making the players by a mile which will now not have to be endured. Even though that in itself was recently a big time saving in itself from the previous method of having to literally type them all in. That was largely what used to end the motivation I think and a bit of time away from it was needed before getting the urge again. Now once the stats are done in excel it's literally a case of pasting it into the export (carefully as there's a few things to avoid doing that can mess things up) and hit the import on the editor. Then go play/test it! So motivation may well stay up for the foofing and faffing.

So, after the Spanish I'll probably do the English Premier as the transfer window ends here tomorrow so there'll be no more changes with squads, then hmm, not sure, might do another I've never done, perhaps the Russian Premier.

The great thing about the import as well is you can simply mix and match to make a new option file. For instance I could put all the teams in the champions/europa into their own option file to be used for those competitions by pasting them into an export, import it and save it with a name alongside it. Then just change each one to the proper OF title when I'm using it to play with.

I am tempted to stay with Leverkusen when I start the proper league as I've kind of got attached to player's now. I'm thinking about Spain, possiby going to go for someone like Eibar or Leganes. Premier, not sure, Wolves might be fun.
 
mattmid said:
@Chilleverest Not to mention the slow motion dives for a loose ball by the keeper that seem to have been in the last 3-4 versions and looking through the demo thread I saw what looked similar with a header. I'd happily take the visuals applied to the retro pes's (although thanks to Juce and kingsley and others with kitserver and so on those games can play at today's resolutions as well) but the gameplay is just meh. I do play 17 from time to time as I got it for £10 on a steam sale and it's ok for a bit but as soon as I fire up one of the older one's it's chalk and cheese. I might download the 19 demo at some stage but I'm in no rush to do that and I certainly won't be forking out £50 for it or whatever the price is this year.

Meanwhile I'm having a blast in my test Bundesliga on pes6 at the moment. I only really meant to play a few games with it but I've got really into it now and had some really great games. After a 3 game winning start and level at the top with Bayern and Monchengladbach I have slipped back some what to a 4-2-3 record at the quarter point of the season. Bayern are 5pts clear at 8-0-1 (18-3) including a really bizarre loss away to Dusseldorf, made even more bizarre because it is Dusseldorf's only win all season so far!
Augsburg appear to be full of goals too and sit in second with 18pts while Gladbach and Stuttgart are hot on their heels on 16pts. I am in 8th on 14. Dusseldorf (3), Hannover (6) and a struggling Schalke (8) are the bottom three at this stage. From 3rd to 15th is just a six point gap though.

So far for me Aranguiz and Bellarabi are the standout performers along with Bender at CB. Hradecky in goal is also playing very well.

Bailey is a promising player however he maybe thinks he's a little better than he is...



And how about this for almost a big contender for goal of the week by Freiburg (CPU)

A lovely through ball by Abrashi, who saw the run of Frantz, he cushioned it with the chest, let it drop and swivelled on it for a superb volley. Unfortunately for him Hradecky made an excellent save to push it just wide


@miguelfcp Re Minanda - see above why I haven't got back to it yet!

@WhoAteMeDinner Where is this manual? Can't say I've ever seen it!
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https://mega.nz/#F!318wnYbB!o56aH0A5_qlAAhbjpJM0VA

Here you go @mattmid . :SNACK:
 
@Madmac79: Reading it always gets me hyped to play retro-PES (not that I need that hype anyway, since I've been hooked on it for years now hehe). It's content like this that really demonstrates how complex and rich the world of PES is, and it tells you absolutely everything about the game, from the more obvious stuff to the little things you didn't even know that were there.

It was a tough group indeed. One might think that Valencia could be the weakest link there - besides ML United, naturally - but they have a potent team, they are on Juventus' and London's level indeed.

@mattmid: Are you using PES Stats database stats or FM?
I'm glad you mentioned it here, wonderful times for Retro-PES editing. For those who haven't read Matt's thread, over the last few days the editing wizards of Evo-Web have found a way to save, as hesays, HUNDREDS OF HOURS of work with a new import function on PES Editor - mustn't go "out of my depth" and try to explain it, all I know is that the "Foofery and Faffery" of editing has just gotten a lot easier, faster and more accessible.
So I bet you're on cloud 9 right now Matt, there's so many editing possibilities to try out with that new tool. I like that idea of multiple leagues, it's like you're the God of Football and you're the one pulling the strings on the european scene of the sport in multiple countries.
 
miguelfcp said:
@mattmid: What's the project you're undertaking there, a full Bundesliga?

@WhoAteMeDinner: One of the most interesting things about the guide - should we just start calling it the Retro-PES Bible or just the Bible? - is that it explains what every attribute really does on pitch. Did you and the other retro-maniacs here know that, at least on PES5, the Defense attribute also affects how quickly a player gets up on his feet after performing a sliding tackle? I had no clue about this, or how Technique affects chip shots (not Shot Technique, but Technique really).
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@miguelfcp , Yeh I always knew the overall stats listed at the end of the second page on the players stat sheets were far more important than the stats that were specific to shooting, passing or dribbling.

The critical five we have discussed here earlier this week were: Mentality, Aggression, Teamwork, Technique and Consistency.

Have always bought players based on those five general stats that make all other player stats come together to make the complete footballer. :COAT::COAT::COAT:
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: Absolutely agreed, give me a player with high mental stats and I'll overlook the rest (my newly acquired newgen Sousa fits in this category). Hell, adapting Sir Alex Ferguson's saying once again, give me 11 pieces of wood with great mental stats and I'll win you the WEFA Championships.
Ok maybe I wouldn't but still, such a team of gentlemen would be fun to play with.
 
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@WhoAteMeDinner Thanks :)

@miguelfcp. I work from FM stats. I've always found they translate in a really good way. The players stats are after all come from being scouted, so although of course open to subjectivity and everybody would have their own opinion to an extent, they are going to be a fair approximation of their actual talent (relevant to all other FM players and therefore relevant to the other one's being made).

I can't wait to have a read of that manual later today to find out about all the extra little details about what the certain stats do and effect that is beyond the basic meaning you get in the in game editor. That will hopefully add another level of understanding and something to adjust for even more accuracy. I had a quick glance at the manual but ignored that section as I want to read that thoroughly from the start. It looks like there's some good info on the various formations that may also help in setting up the formations for the AI as well. :)
 
It's crazy that there are still developments in OF making for a game that is nearly 12 years old!
Thanks to @mattmid I have an Excel sheet with FM stats from last season. Along with the import function in the editor, this would have blown my mind a few years ago knowing how quickly you can create an OF.
I have always moaned about the fact that once an OF is up to date it's time to update it again. Yet when the process was a lot slower it really helped with my Football League knowledge because I had to go through every team and every player again and again. I remember my Dad telling me we had signed a player that no one had heard of except for me. I knew their first name, the team and roughly how good they were. By everything being automatic I think I would miss this.
 
@Titch I think you'd still get to know them know from the creating part. That part still has to be done. When I've been getting the squads together (how much easier would this have been by the way 20-30 years ago when players actually stayed at clubs more than a season or two!) there's been several players where I've thought, oh I didn't know he had gone to them and so on. Thanks to @peterc10 as well with his addition of skin colour to the import/export that is another absolutely huge time saver as well. If he can add the other stuff he hopes to that will be amazing. Even hair colour or something would again be a nice touch. I'm not overly worried on the finer details of face/hair accuracy, after all you don't see them close up that often during a game, but right hair colour and of course skin at least makes them 'recognisable' during the game from a distance and adds to the immersion I think.
 
@Titch and @mattmid this Excel Sheet from FM, is it possible that you can please send me a copy? Not for me to import it straight into my OF but so that i can print out player’s stats that are not on PSD. I can then enter them manually. At the moment i am guessing stats and skills from sofifa.com.

Thanks :)
 
Have just been having a look at recent PES editions (PES 2017, 2018) player stat sheets on some PES online databases and I am really understanding all the foofery and faffery now that you guys are putting into retro-pes databases and OFs.

What has happned to all the overall stats like technique, aggression, teamwork, mentality ? And they now give players a quite meaningless generic player rating number. :NONO::NONO::NONO:

No wonder the PES 2019 discussion thread is as hostile an area as a YouTube comments section. :COAT:
 
@geeeeee Pm'ed :)


@WhoAteMeDinner It's awful isn't it? I think this is why there seem to be so many weird things with the AI as it seems to be so rigidly stuck to a tactic to compensate for no individuality in the players. I really do think the old programming team and seabass understood football. I mean look at this from that manual ...

upload_2018-8-9_12-10-7.png

that right there shows the depth they went to to get the AI to respond as realistically as was possible.

Now it seems more important to be able to do a no look pass.
 
miguelfcp said:
@papinho81: Oh, then you have A LOT to explore indeed. When you say you played PES until PES4, it means you never experienced PES5? To me that's an essential game of the series, though it's not for everyone's taste certainly, as it can get gritty as gritty can be. However, given you've just gotten your hands on WE9LE, I'd say you're good to go as it's definitely one of the best of the series (some even say it's the undisputed best).
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You are right there is a lot of PES version to try particularly with all the versions older titles have. As for PES5 is it really different from WE9LE? If yes in what aspects?

Now I am sure I will make you laugh. I spent a lot of time to try to find where I could put the pass assist to manual with PES3 and WE9LE...
 
@papinho81 in my experience there aren't notable differences from the two editions.

I remember people were instead convinced that Winning Eleven 9 J-League was better than both, but I played it back at the times and I couldn't remember being that much more impressed. I should try it again..
 
I haven't tried the J-League version. Having only recently played we9le for the first time I think it's perhaps intangible but it seems to have the best of both pes5 and the good additions that pes6 went on to introduce. Kind of a hybrid of the two perhaps?
 
I just tried PES 2008 on PS2 yesterday and I'm surprised at the attacking flow of the AI compared to PES 6.

I'm probably going to buy the disc for it, since I only tried an ISO of it on a modified PS2.

Also, I can set up a "resource wiki" for retro-PES now, or just let someone else do so on my server with MediaWiki if they like! I'm going to get a free domain for it now if anyone wants me to. Preferably an .ml of course!

EDIT: I have got a free domain (retro-pes.ml) and will do something with it soon, it's already set up to work with my server and have created a separate home directory for it. Expect stuff to be done later today. If people want to see a small forum for it too, then it would be cool, but I'd rather sort out the wiki first ^^

By the way it's fairly obvious but I'm @Orhainmalz

EDIT 2: I can't install MediaWiki. It's pretty much impossible to do so from an iPhone as nano keeps adding crapo to the end of each line whenever I copy LocalSettings.php, so goodbye to that idea. We can still have a forum and some kind of wiki extension if something like that exists, but I'm unsure it does, and it would be not very feature packed if so... plus I'd rather not have a forum so that we don't lose activity here
 
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miguelfcp said:
@MafiaMurderBag: About that stadium, I swear I was going to say it was the Diamond Stadium, but now I've just played vs. Bayern and saw those goal posts on the Diamond. I've played on that stadium for more than a decade and I had NEVER seen the goal posts before you mentioned it! Part-time rugby stadium, heh? Maybe Konami was going to make a rugby videogame, created a stadium for it, but ended up scrapping the idea though utilizing the model of it for PES.
I sense another Retro-PES conspiracy developing here...
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You're right it is the Diamond stadium which is based on the real life Newlands stadium;

unnamed.jpg
 
Couple of random gifs first off, lord knows what's going on with my defence here put it's an easy unlocking pass from Ryan Giggs, it's all on Bellamy but it smashes it as hard as he can as the angle tightens but is greeted by the woodwork.

YhCoeQh.gif


Secondly, a frustrating stalemate in Paris but a pretty fantastic save from Barthez to deny Van Nistlerooy from close range in my best chance of the game to prevent the win on the road.

7pl1y4T.gif
 
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