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The Retro-PES Corner

slamsoze said:
If you ask me 19 £, I assume more than 25€ seems to much for a 10 Years old game.

But if it sealed at least seems good deal, taking in mind that almost everybody in the internet has become, like those guys from Discovery Channel that buy old things for 100$ and sell them for 3,000$ while whining that they don't get any profit.

As for the updates, nope, I think you get either 1.00 or 1.01 without DP.
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It really is. Considering what it goes for on other platforms.
 
rsl1 said:
I agree that is a lot for a 10 year old game.
I found it cheaper (£10), also brand new but in Italian, if you can change the language then that might work.
I have just realised that both my new laptop and my powerful desktop don't have disk drives though lol. My old laptop does so I guess I could turn it into an iso file on that if I can find a no dvd exe somewhere, it may be that one of the patches has one included anyway to be fair.
The things we go through to get a decent football fix lol...
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AFAIK you can import any language pacckage, for text and commentary in PC. I used to buy the Greek version and then download English text for menus, cause the Greek transalation is most difficult for me to understand than the English transalation. I am native greek btw!! :P

For language it is easy to find files. EIther in google or in youtube. Like this

Link

EDIT: @rsl1 i have tested the links above in the video and they do work, so i would suggest you to grab them now, in case the links expire in the future.
It is dt00_e.img and dt05_e.img. FYI the in the end "e" stands for the language.
 
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ryudek said:
@*aLe if it helps, I've found PESEdit patches for their original season in pesnewupdate.com (it includes PES2010, PES2011, PES2012 and PES2013)
Here are the links
PES2010: https://www.pesnewupdate.com/2020/07/pes-2010-peseditcom-2010-patch.html
PES2011: https://www.pesnewupdate.com/2018/07/pes-2011-peseditcom-2011-patch-2011.html
PES2012: https://www.pesnewupdate.com/2020/07/pes-2012-peseditcom-2012-patch.html
PES2012 (same but with EURO2012): https://www.pesnewupdate.com/2019/08/pes-2012-peseditcom-2012-euro-2012-patch-add-on.html
PES2013: https://www.pesnewupdate.com/2016/04/peseditcom-2013-patch-pes-2013.html

I'm currently playing the first PES2012 link I gave you and it's fantastic. I've also tested the 2013 one in the past and it's algo preeetty good, so I assume the 2010 and 2011 ones work perfectly too. If you want links for the respective games, you can check gamezfull.com (it's in Spanish but you can search for 'Pro Evolution Soccer XXXX' and it should show up.

EDIT: I've also found the PES2010 World Cup and PES2013 Brazil World Cup patches there, you can find maaany old patches there from different seasons, it's wonderful.
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Thanks pal, I'll have a look at them. Much appreciated. :)
 
In my new ML on PES 5, I'm in my fourth season. I started off awfully- having finished 2nd in my first season in the top flight, then 5th last year, I am 10th just past halfway in this one- and that's after getting some of my form back. After 8 games, I was in last place without a win. Scoring was a problem, but more so conceding. I normally have the best defensive record in the game, but my mind just wasn't in the right place and I was struggling for draws with the weakest teams in the league. Having strengthened my squad further over the summer with buying a 30 year old Gascoigne and an impressive young Japanese striker named Takahashi, my players couldn't be blamed. Their manageer has simply lost his touch!

I did start getting some wins though, and climbed in wobbly fashion away from the relegation zone. Some of my better results have been against the big sides (drew with Chelsea twice, the second time only a late Drogba goal stopped me getting 3 points), whereas lowly Wigan Athletic make me sweat. I played quite well against Chelsea, though early on Robben was on fire and rounded the keeper on his second attempt, but the sudden appearance of Valeny in his path caused him to shoot wide. Anyway, after 17 or 18 games I am in 10th. In the cups on the other hand, I've been doing quite well. I got past Everton in the first round of the D1 cup, then Wigan 4-2 on aggregate- I'm about to play Chelsea in the semis. In the Champions League I got through the qualifying stage and have just come second in my group of Valencia, Inter and AC Milan. I actually beat Milan at the San Siro, but after getting angry about missing an early penalty in the second game (they make such ridiculously good pen. saves in Pro Evo!!!!) I carelessly conceded 3 goals. I scored 2 late on though, Takahashi first driving it in low from outside the box and later being at the post to tap in a poor shot which their keeper had spilled. In short, me and AC went through- Inter were the whipping boys of the group, surprisingly, only getting 1 point- and I face Real Madrid in the quarter finals. I usually find it quite easy to get down their flanks, and I have good options for doing that with my squad, so I am hopeful of at least scoring against them.

Takahashi has been a good buy; tall and fantastic in the air, he is also good at shooting and quite strong, but not fast. His special abillities include scoring, reaction and lines (the latter two basically mean he is looking to make runs and crucially he tends to avoid offside traps). He's scored 5 in the combined cups and one or two in the league as well. Gazza has scored 3 or 4 in all competitions, though I am not doing him justice in his general play at the moment. Castolo and Huylens are now scoring occasionally, in fact the Brazilian has 7 so far in the league making it his best season under me. Now in 2008 (game starts in 2005), he is 33 and the Dutchman 37, but they are still useful. Ordaz and Hamsun have been getting the odd goal from the bench too, and young Orellano (who I signed last year, I think) is getting more and more impressive. His only major weakness is in the air. Nevertheless, my default starting eleven includes a front trio of Burchet, Castolo and Huylens, with the others coming in as fatigue demands. When it comes to running fast in a straight line, the Australian has few peers, and with a bit of luck I can make him pass the ball to a teammate (he actually made two great assists in one game a while back).

I haven't been getting midfielders into shooting positions much at all, but I've scored a few free kicks with Minanda, Gazza and Jaric. I'm still shaky in my form, so my best case scenario is to sneak into 6th for a chance at the CL next season, but I might end the campaign in mid-table. If I keep scoring with reasonable regularity, I don't mind conceding so much. That said, I have been musing whether to change from the 3-4-3 I've been using throughout this playthrough.
 
It's wise to repeat again, once in a while, that ML in 2010-2012 era was the absolute best.

Was playing a bit of Pes 2010, just to relax. I've gone to check the "report" on the next FA Cup match I had to play and this nice information turned out:

pes2010 2020-07-15 16-59-32-25.jpg

Never paid attention to it before, at least in this one. And even if in in 2012 the report was way more through (even if I can't quite remember if they talked about turnover too), was really nice to see, both the report and maybe more important the fact the CPU, of course, truly did a nice, rational rotation to save energies (and won all the same fml):

pes2010 2020-07-15 17-15-46-66.jpg
 
Update: Finished the season quite well, though still a bit inconsistent in the league. Narrowly lost D1 cup and CL cup semis to Chelsea, just one goal short in each case of going to the final. Chelsea won the D1 cup final vs Arsenal but lost CL against AC Milan, 3-0. I moved into 6th in the league on the last day because Spurs lost- so I got back into the CL by the skin of my teeth! Chelsea won the league again, but not by as big a margin this time (Arsenal were second). Man U won the Uefa Cup vs Juve. League top scorer was Henry with 15. My top scorer was Castolo in the league, with 10, but he never featured in the cups. I actually scored 40 goals, when my previous best in this playthrough was 35. My defensive record was so bad, however, that I conceded slightly more this year than I had in the two previous seasons combined! Charlton and Wigan drop down, West Ham and Middlesborough are back up.

My new signings performed well. I started playing my AMF further upfield, which helped a lot especially with Gazza. He grabbed 9 in all competitions, Takahashi 8 (not many league appearances). I decided not to renew Zamenhof's tenure so brought in a young Shilton to join Lothar as reserve keeper. Lothar is still quite young but his growth chart suggests he peaks early and declines in late twenties. One other signing this summer was Ray Wilkins, another 17 year old. I already have a surfeit of AMFs waiting for Minanda to retire, but I am trying to get English players when I can and I can experiment with more AMFs on the field than I typically field. Feeling better about my performance now, and I hope to be more consistent and to enjoy the game more in the 2009 season.
 
PES 3 and PES 2008 are my favourites in the series. Just started back with PES 3, I dont have much in way of skills to edit option files beyond the in game edit mode, as in i have zero skills outside the in game editor. I have painstakingly changed all the player names for both national as well as club sides. I have also edited some kits to look a little bit more realistic, like Sporting Lisbon, Croatia, Bordeux, West Ham, etc. I created Iniesta and Messi as they were on Barca's books at the time and made their breakthrough in and around 2002-2004 respectively. It's a shame though as in PES 3 I cant find a way to register created players to the club sides they were in, so for the sake of realism i might just delete them so as not to have Messi bought by some lesser side in a master league mode.

All in all though, the gameplay is awesome, in my opinion much better than the overcomplicated modern games, the game engine gives you so much room for unique matchplay instances. I loved this game at the time and i bought 2 copies when i saw it in a second hand shop about 5 years back, cost me 49p for each copy, i also grabbed a 2008 version for 99p. For the last 12 years when playing pro evo I have usually played 2008 which I think is a great game, but having not played it for maybe 2 years and having dipped my toes in PES 2017 and 2019 (I enjoyed the graphics elements and more intricate management sides to those games, but the gameplay I just cant get on board with) I figured I would go back to the 2003 game and I am so glad I did, I have a game that I actually enjoy playing again.

The nostalgic value weighs in heavy too, back to an era when football still had an abundance of creative talent, Im older and cynical now and find modern football too concetrated on athleticism which I think has led to less instances of mercurial talents breaking through, none of these stocky no.8's or no.10's that garlanded 90's and early 00's football. Football has a paucity of these types of players, nowadays they would be deemed luxury I suppose, everybody needs to be able to press. No room for a Redondo, Riquelme, Guti, Prosinecki type, perhaps these things are cyclical, but it's abundantly clear these days in order to make it in professional football the minimum standard is that you will have to be able to maintain an optimum level of athletic prowess, beer guts are excluded and thus so are certain type of personality, certain characters that maybe had the ability but not so much the discipline to maintain stong athletic standards. For what the sport has gained in athleticism, I believe it has lost as much in terms of aesthetic appeal. This in my mind is analogous to the PES series, the 2003 vintage stands the test of time, will the 2020 version?

Now to go pick my master league team, big decision, I am not sure who I want to play as, there are so many good options.
 
delapena23 said:
PES 3 and PES 2008 are my favourites in the series. Just started back with PES 3, I dont have much in way of skills to edit option files beyond the in game edit mode, as in i have zero skills outside the in game editor. I have painstakingly changed all the player names for both national as well as club sides. I have also edited some kits to look a little bit more realistic, like Sporting Lisbon, Croatia, Bordeux, West Ham, etc. I created Iniesta and Messi as they were on Barca's books at the time and made their breakthrough in and around 2002-2004 respectively. It's a shame though as in PES 3 I cant find a way to register created players to the club sides they were in, so for the sake of realism i might just delete them so as not to have Messi bought by some lesser side in a master league mode.

All in all though, the gameplay is awesome, in my opinion much better than the overcomplicated modern games, the game engine gives you so much room for unique matchplay instances. I loved this game at the time and i bought 2 copies when i saw it in a second hand shop about 5 years back, cost me 49p for each copy, i also grabbed a 2008 version for 99p. For the last 12 years when playing pro evo I have usually played 2008 which I think is a great game, but having not played it for maybe 2 years and having dipped my toes in PES 2017 and 2019 (I enjoyed the graphics elements and more intricate management sides to those games, but the gameplay I just cant get on board with) I figured I would go back to the 2003 game and I am so glad I did, I have a game that I actually enjoy playing again.

The nostalgic value weighs in heavy too, back to an era when football still had an abundance of creative talent, Im older and cynical now and find modern football too concetrated on athleticism which I think has led to less instances of mercurial talents breaking through, none of these stocky no.8's or no.10's that garlanded 90's and early 00's football. Football has a paucity of these types of players, nowadays they would be deemed luxury I suppose, everybody needs to be able to press. No room for a Redondo, Riquelme, Guti, Prosinecki type, perhaps these things are cyclical, but it's abundantly clear these days in order to make it in professional football the minimum standard is that you will have to be able to maintain an optimum level of athletic prowess, beer guts are excluded and thus so are certain type of personality, certain characters that maybe had the ability but not so much the discipline to maintain stong athletic standards. For what the sport has gained in athleticism, I believe it has lost as much in terms of aesthetic appeal. This in my mind is analogous to the PES series, the 2003 vintage stands the test of time, will the 2020 version?

Now to go pick my master league team, big decision, I am not sure who I want to play as, there are so many good options.
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This resonates with me strongly. Very strongly. So much so that I'm wondering if you're me, in some sort of parallel existence.

PES3 is the best football game of all time. So simple, so intuitive, so varied. A fitting screenshot of a time when the game had more character.

You're on PS2, I assume? I know my way around editing PES3; could maybe give you some help!
 
delapena23 said:
The nostalgic value weighs in heavy too, back to an era when football still had an abundance of creative talent, Im older and cynical now and find modern football too concetrated on athleticism which I think has led to less instances of mercurial talents breaking through, none of these stocky no.8's or no.10's that garlanded 90's and early 00's football. Football has a paucity of these types of players, nowadays they would be deemed luxury I suppose, everybody needs to be able to press. No room for a Redondo, Riquelme, Guti, Prosinecki type, perhaps these things are cyclical, but it's abundantly clear these days in order to make it in professional football the minimum standard is that you will have to be able to maintain an optimum level of athletic prowess, beer guts are excluded and thus so are certain type of personality, certain characters that maybe had the ability but not so much the discipline to maintain stong athletic standards. For what the sport has gained in athleticism, I believe it has lost as much in terms of aesthetic appeal. This in my mind is analogous to the PES series, the 2003 vintage stands the test of time, will the 2020 version?
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Couldn't agree more with all of that and football is all the poorer for it. I won't dwell on it as I could go on for ever, but I had the great fortune to see a seasons worth of football from a 32 yr old Prosinecki and it was and probably always will be my favourite season of watching football live.

We finished a lowly 17th but he was majestical and worth every penny and more to watch his masterclass even though he was playing with 10 other players that mostly were several levels below his quality. I couldn't wait for the next game to see him play again, it was an absolute joy. Compare it to this current season which has been the most turgid, boring, passionless football I have ever had the misfortune to watch my team play and we finished 5th. That for me sums up exactly what you wrote.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
This resonates with me strongly. Very strongly. So much so that I'm wondering if you're me, in some sort of parallel existence.

PES3 is the best football game of all time. So simple, so intuitive, so varied. A fitting screenshot of a time when the game had more character.

You're on PS2, I assume? I know my way around editing PES3; could maybe give you some help!
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Cheers for the reply mate, yes I am on the PS2, any help, pointers or advice with editing would be greatly appreciated. Alas I am not the most technically minded person in the world, so i pray you bear that in mind in relation to any advice you may be able to offer, and in terms of advice im open to anything that seeks to improve the game in terms of realism, or aesthetics. Thanks in advance!
 
I wondered if anyone else finds it crazy that these games have the same number of years between them as PES 2014 and 2020 do...

ISS Pro (1997)


PES 3 (2003)



This is probably part of the reason I don't get excited about a new football game coming out any more, you simply don't get this kind of big change. It's always more of the same with small tweaks, but maybe they might add 3D nostril hair in 4K or something.
 
@rojofa picking up old titles around that gen in those past weeks, I surely do. I had the same exact thought playing WE6Fe and comparing it with Iss Pro Evo 2 for Psx which is only distant three years. The costant, enormous progress jump you had from game to game in that era was astonishing.
 
@Early PES footy fan: Your reports are always inspiring.

Early PES footy fan said:
(...) I decided not to renew Zamenhof's tenure (...)
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That was a gigantic mistake. Zamenhof is the spiritual leader of the ML Defaults team, despite his admittedly horrible statsheet, and also the fact that he rarely if ever shows up for training sessions, and also the fact that he plays horribly once you give him 5 minutes of play on the last fixture of the league, 5 years after his last appearance for the club.
Jokes aside, Lothar is an interesting one. On my PES08 PS2 ML he didn't evolve his stats at all, in fact he did the opposite half a decade on, though to be fair he only played 7 or 8 matches in almost 15 years; but on a PES5 ML I played recently recently, in just a season of (again) barely playing at all, he was one of the most improved players.

@delapena23: Welcome man, what a great post.
I agree that the game of football is very different from what it was fifteen, twenty years ago. These early PES PS2 titles/the glorious ISS Pro Evolution 1 and 2 perfectly recreate how the sport was played back then, which is remarkably different from the quasi-automated, possession-obsessed football as it's played in 2020.

Modern football games are clearly struggling to recreate modern football in an attractive manner, something that for example PES3 did perfectly at the time. If you watch any eFootball competition, it's like you're visualizing Guardiola's acid trip: perfect tiki-taka-ing for a few minutes across and all over the pitch before the opponent is bored out of his mind, puts the controller down and begs the opponent to score to put an end to his misery.
Modern football is so tactically complex these days that, in my opinion, encapsulating that particular essence on a 10-15 min. virtual match is probably impossible; whereas the more chaotic, "free-er", electrifying football of the past is a perfect fit - though, conversely, it'd be harder to recreate a 90min match on such a footballing platform. So what you get is modern football games trying to replicate the formula as it worked 20 years ago, ignoring that football itself has changed too much for that to work now.
Plus, from a gaming standpoint, that "ancient" football is naturally much more attractive than the modern one. Do you want to turn on your console and delight yourself in Riquelme's shoes, or do you want to spend that time thinking about proper defensive transitioning, applying pressure from the blind side...? Most don't want that. They actually don't want the overcomplicated modern football. They want what we had with PES3.
 
Madmac79 said:
@rojofa picking up old titles around that gen in those past weeks, I surely do. I had the same exact thought playing WE6Fe and comparing it with Iss Pro Evo 2 for Psx which is only distant three years. The costant, enormous progress jump you had from game to game in that era was astonishing.
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I'm not sure if it's just the perspective, but I struggle to even see games like PES 2013 or FIFA 15 as "retro" despite being 5-8 years old. I could probably even stretch that back to 2011/12. Simply not enough has improved/changed in the meantime.

Back in 2005 when I was playing PES5, if I put one of my 5-8 year old football games on like FIFA 98 or ISS 2000, they already looked and felt ancient.
 
mattmid said:
Couldn't agree more with all of that and football is all the poorer for it. I won't dwell on it as I could go on for ever, but I had the great fortune to see a seasons worth of football from a 32 yr old Prosinecki and it was and probably always will be my favourite season of watching football live.

We finished a lowly 17th but he was majestical and worth every penny and more to watch his masterclass even though he was playing with 10 other players that mostly were several levels below his quality. I couldn't wait for the next game to see him play again, it was an absolute joy. Compare it to this current season which has been the most turgid, boring, passionless football I have ever had the misfortune to watch my team play and we finished 5th. That for me sums up exactly what you wrote.
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I feel your pain, Prosinecki was cut from a different cloth, I find it difficult to think of any equivalents in the modern game. Even players recently retired like a Xavi or your Sneider of Van der Vaart and the like, they dont really compare to the Hagi or Prosenecki type talents. Like yourself I could go on and on about it.

Just looking at the England team from Euro 96 versus the England team from the 2018 World Cup and doing a player by player comparison leaves anyone with no doubt that there has been a clear shift in terms of the types of characters or personalities playing the game. Obviously there is a multitude of different reasons for this reality we are now in, but David Seaman or Jordan Pickford? Tony Adams or Harry Maguire? Paul Ince or Jordan Henderson? Gazza or Deli Ali? Kane or Shearer? To be honest I would even take a Sheringham over Kane. It's not that Kane and the crew are bad players it is more the fact that the game has changed to the point that there is less room for expression in the modern game (I also have more love for the Euro 2000 squad than the 2018 iteration, which speaks even more keenly to my point).

In terms of less room for expression in the modern game, I think it is as true on the field as it is off the field with all of the media training and agents meddling, forcing player moves, robotic interviews and the amounts of money at stake for clubs, players, sponsors etc football has been corporotised to within an inch of its original nature and it is reflected in the type of coporate parlance they use when talking about the sport 'the product'. Its all clean and shiny, the sheen is on point, the modern stadiums almost equivalent in architechtural aesthetic to vacuous modern airport terminals, the sport routinely utilised in order to push whatever political slogan is flavour of the month and keep the sponsors in tow, the idea is to give it the veneer of being clean and wholesome, yet scratch the surface and you see that it is just a big gold plated, diamond encrusted money train that everyone who benefits from does not want to derail.

The on field game itself now bereft of strong tackles, go to ground the referee blows his whistle, and yet still despite the added protcection, we see less skill, less audacity, less mavericks than when two footed challenges were staple hallmarks of the game. Of course two footed challenges are bad and should be punished, but diluting the aggressive elements of the game, elements that (I am in the realm of speculation here) perhaps provided players with a rock face to climb, as a player you had to navigate your way through on field obstacles that were sometimes patently nefarious, pitting yourself against characters of the ilk of a Vinnie Jones or in more refined terms a Roy Keane would provde the opportunity for a player to slay the dragon in a way that modern day footballers are not afforded. Thus a seismic rift has taken hold, even more so currently with no fans at games, the corporatism of football is as glaring as it has ever been.

I truly believe those lucky enough to have been around to wintess the 90's and early 00's witnessed the golden age of the sport when the corporatism had not truly taken hold it was still emerging and the on field game hit just the right note in terms of player safety as well as inherent on field danger, combined with the right level of athleticism so there was still space on the pitch to create moments that are as evocative 20 years down the line as they were at the time, perhaps even more so as time marches on. Even if in terms of popularity the sport has not dwindled, in terms of everything else it seems to be caught in a downward spiral.

Apologies for the rant.
 
[/QUOTE]
Plus, from a gaming standpoint, that "ancient" football is naturally much more attractive than the modern one. Do you want to turn on your console and delight yourself in Riquelme's shoes, or do you want to spend that time thinking about proper defensive transitioning, applying pressure from the blind side...? Most don't want that. They actually don't want the overcomplicated modern football. They want what we had with PES3.
[/QUOTE]

@miguelfcp

Yes, I agree entirely, for all of the greatness of a PES 3 or even the earlier iterations like on the PS1, even the SNES version of ISS all great in their own right, one thing they all have in common is that they all retain the feeling of playing an enjoyable game.

Similar to CM01/02 the balance of PES3 is perfect, enough to keep you coming back for more, it has a truly addictive element. When you want to play a game surely you want to relax, perhaps immerse yourself in the fantasy elements of the (in this case) sport. That is what these games give you in abundance just the right amount of fantasy not too complex, but complex enough that it isn't a straight forward victory, the challenge is as real as you want to make it within the game.

Nowadays you fire up football manager or one of the latest PES or FIFA before you can do anything you have to make a 1000 decsions, I mean it is great in a sense, but to quote a friend of mine, rather than playing football manager 2020 with all of the features, you may as well go and coach a real life local team, you would spend as much time if not less on that, and you would probably get more satisfaction out of it. The attention to detail is stunning, but when a game literally starts to resemble the real thing, then surely the game part of it starts to wane. And if you are no longer playing it, rather you are living it, then who is playing who?
 
I swear this topic sometimes is nothing but a bubble of people refusing to take off their nostalgia goggles regarding outdated PS2 soccer games.

I made a longer critic full of points worth of consideration and several of you reply with "lol, not gonna bother replying". Keep living in your small bubbles I guess.


Oh and could you possibly explain why I did not qualify for the Champions League as Werder Bremen in PES 6 Master League, despite coming 2nd in the Bundesliga and winning the DFB-Pokal? Another valid complaint arguing for why PES 6 aged like milk.

I will say scoring bangers with overpowered players is fun, but that is just about it. I still think 1on1'ing the goalkeeper is way harder than it ever needs to be, and it only is because of the awful aiming controls.

But keep ignoring my complaints and say "lol not gonna bother" because you probably cannot handle accepting that an old game is old.
 
Worm199 said:
I swear this topic sometimes is nothing but a bubble of people refusing to take off their nostalgia goggles regarding outdated PS2 soccer games.

I made a longer critic full of points worth of consideration and several of you reply with "lol, not gonna bother replying". Keep living in your small bubbles I guess.


Oh and could you possibly explain why I did not qualify for the Champions League as Werder Bremen in PES 6 Master League, despite coming 2nd in the Bundesliga and winning the DFB-Pokal? Another valid complaint arguing for why PES 6 aged like milk.

I will say scoring bangers with overpowered players is fun, but that is just about it. I still think 1on1'ing the goalkeeper is way harder than it ever needs to be, and it only is because of the awful aiming controls.

But keep ignoring my complaints and say "lol not gonna bother" because you probably cannot handle accepting that an old game is old.
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I really don't get your MO. This thread is for those who play, enjoy, discuss and reminisce about older PES games. Being a bubble is precisely the point of having the thread.

No-one is forcing you to play PES6. You don't like it. So stop.

Someone might validate your opinion but you're unlikely to find them here. You're the bald man trying to pick a fight over a comb.

If anyone here can't accept that old games are old, it's you.
 
Worm199 said:
I swear this topic sometimes is nothing but a bubble of people refusing to take off their nostalgia goggles regarding outdated PS2 soccer games.

I made a longer critic full of points worth of consideration and several of you reply with "lol, not gonna bother replying". Keep living in your small bubbles I guess.


Oh and could you possibly explain why I did not qualify for the Champions League as Werder Bremen in PES 6 Master League, despite coming 2nd in the Bundesliga and winning the DFB-Pokal? Another valid complaint arguing for why PES 6 aged like milk.

I will say scoring bangers with overpowered players is fun, but that is just about it. I still think 1on1'ing the goalkeeper is way harder than it ever needs to be, and it only is because of the awful aiming controls.

But keep ignoring my complaints and say "lol not gonna bother" because you probably cannot handle accepting that an old game is old.
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Οk dude, it is outdated. What you wanna us to do now? Go outside and smash all our all disks of games?

Whats the point of your posts? I really can't understand... You know what, PACMAN is outdated too, PANG is too, Tetris is too,Snow Bros is too, Metal Slug is too, Street Fighter is Too, AoE is too, Diablo II is too, Starcraft is too, Warcraft III is too, NBA JAM is too....But they are all fun.
It is different to be outdated by modern standards and to be fun.
What do you expect? To close the thread, burn our collections and go to the 2012 UPDATE topic, discuss about the new/old game? Or did anyone from here came to your place, and threatened your life to force you play old games? I really can't understand..
 
Currently playing a Champions League with Liverpool on PES 2009 (I decided that I'd try and bring Liverpool to continental glory once for every game in which the Champions League was licensed: being knocked out means that I'd put that game down and move to the subsequent one) and I'm kinda enjoying it.
It feels veeeery archaic if we compare it to nowadays' games but hey, as long as I have fun I don't care if it looks (and plays) pretty outdated.
I also managed to recreate Bayern and Werder Bremen with most of their players (many of them are in the shop and some play for their national team), and to import kits/emblems for some unlicensed teams (Bayern, Bremen, Chelsea and Arsenal), it's been a nice trip down memory lane for now.

Needless to say that I've been trashed by PSV in my first match (at home, nonetheless). PES 2010, here I come! 🤣
 
Worm199 said:
I swear this topic sometimes is nothing but a bubble of people refusing to take off their nostalgia goggles regarding outdated PS2 soccer games.

I made a longer critic full of points worth of consideration and several of you reply with "lol, not gonna bother replying". Keep living in your small bubbles I guess.


Oh and could you possibly explain why I did not qualify for the Champions League as Werder Bremen in PES 6 Master League, despite coming 2nd in the Bundesliga and winning the DFB-Pokal? Another valid complaint arguing for why PES 6 aged like milk.

I will say scoring bangers with overpowered players is fun, but that is just about it. I still think 1on1'ing the goalkeeper is way harder than it ever needs to be, and it only is because of the awful aiming controls.

But keep ignoring my complaints and say "lol not gonna bother" because you probably cannot handle accepting that an old game is old.
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Dude. We are all fully aware of the "flaws" of old games. We just like to play them anyway. In our opinion they are more fun than modern stuff. Nobody here is particularly interested in having pages long of heated debates about this vs that. It's really that simple.

You came ranting about Pes 6 an year ago and I (along with others like Miguel) even gave you an educated response. You come back an year later with another similar rant. I mean what do you want us to tell you? Be grateful that for you modern games are the absolute ultimate best and just don't play the damn Pes 6 thing. I promise you nobody will force you to lol.
 
Here is a question for the PES 3 enthusiasts out there, what camera angle do you play the game on?

I tend to play it on long, I seem to recall years ago when the game first came out, I played it on wide quite often too, especially when playing against friends. This time around I forgot about camera angles initially and was playing the game on the normal computer set camera angle and the game was obviously still good, but as soon as I remembered and put the angle to long allowing for a little further on screen vision, the game gets even better in my opinion. For optimal passing range on screen it is for my money the wide angle that rules that particular roost, but I feel it takes away a little from the in game graphics which though incomparable to modern games, I feel have a certain value in the game, so for me the long angle perfectly balances my in game preferences.
 
delapena23 said:
Here is a question for the PES 3 enthusiasts out there, what camera angle do you play the game on?

I tend to play it on long, I seem to recall years ago when the game first came out, I played it on wide quite often too, especially when playing against friends. This time around I forgot about camera angles initially and was playing the game on the normal computer set camera angle and the game was obviously still good, but as soon as I remembered and put the angle to long allowing for a little further on screen vision, the game gets even better in my opinion. For optimal passing range on screen it is for my money the wide angle that rules that particular roost, but I feel it takes away a little from the in game graphics which though incomparable to modern games, I feel have a certain value in the game, so for me the long angle perfectly balances my in game preferences.
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I use broadcast 1 in every pes pre2011.
 
delapena23 said:
Here is a question for the PES 3 enthusiasts out there, what camera angle do you play the game on?

I tend to play it on long, I seem to recall years ago when the game first came out, I played it on wide quite often too, especially when playing against friends. This time around I forgot about camera angles initially and was playing the game on the normal computer set camera angle and the game was obviously still good, but as soon as I remembered and put the angle to long allowing for a little further on screen vision, the game gets even better in my opinion. For optimal passing range on screen it is for my money the wide angle that rules that particular roost, but I feel it takes away a little from the in game graphics which though incomparable to modern games, I feel have a certain value in the game, so for me the long angle perfectly balances my in game preferences.
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I use broadcast with a 3 angle :) . For me it's the best compromise possible, at least in Pes 3.

I've become a bit allergic to "static" cameras in the years, I try to always put at least some angle to simulate real life broadcasts, unless it's not possible or there are other more functional or inspiring alternatives at hand.
 
As I use PC, I usually have a slightly wider than wide using the camera tool.

delapena23 said:
Nowadays you fire up football manager or one of the latest PES or FIFA before you can do anything you have to make a 1000 decsions, I mean it is great in a sense, but to quote a friend of mine, rather than playing football manager 2020 with all of the features, you may as well go and coach a real life local team, you would spend as much time if not less on that, and you would probably get more satisfaction out of it. The attention to detail is stunning, but when a game literally starts to resemble the real thing, then surely the game part of it starts to wane. And if you are no longer playing it, rather you are living it, then who is playing who?
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That's exactly how I feel about FM. I used to love that game now it just feels like having a second job which is a real shame. I started playing it way back on the Amiga and once had a 27 season career with Wycombe of all teams :)

As for your 'rant' I wouldn't consider it that for a minute :) It eloquently summed up modern football for many I think. The endless drivel pre and post game that I now refuse to even watch. I turn the game on at kick off and switch it off at the final whistle. In fact with some of the Premier games since lockdown I've turned off well before the end.

As to that England squad comparison, I don't think I'd take anybody from 2018 over 1996. Go back to include 86 and 90 and you have the likes of Hoddle, Robson, Wilkins, Barnes, Beardsley, Waddle, the list goes on. Could you possibly pick a less creative midfield than one with Dier and Henderson in it?

Football, and in particular the Premier League at least, has sold it soul I think. The clubs milk fans for all they can get, playing on our loyalty. Look at the proposed wage caps they are talking about for the Championship, League One and League Two. If they do get voted in that would be a huge decrease in outgoings for a lot of clubs. Will any of them lower ticket prices? No chance. I'd doubt the PFA will allow the wage cap to happen though, they will probably threaten to go on strike or something. I do think if it were to happen then it should probably be based on income rather than a blanket figure. Plus the figures are bizarre with the Championship proposed figure of 18m, League 1 of 2.5m and League 2 1.25m. All that will do is create the same huge gap that is currently between the Premier and Championship to then be between the Championship and League One.

In League One they are proposing a 2.5m wage cap and I think a 22 man squad. I saw a report regarding my team saying that it would mean an average of around 1800 wk where as now it's about 3500. Now fair enough that's a big cut in wages, but forgive me for not caring too much as 1800 a week works out to £93k a year to play third tier football, that's not exactly putting them on minimum wage is it. That goes back to my previous point, that would cut our wage bill in half but the ticket price wouldn't go down.

While I'm now ranting :) we had four home games left when lockdown happened. Eventually the club offered three options for season ticket holders, one to get a refund of four games worth of the season ticket price, two was to get that back but keep it in your account to go towards next seasons ticket or three, donate it to the club to help them through the lockdown spell. All well and good and understandable if the club were an Accrington or similar team who are genuinely struggling to survive through this period, but we are owned by a billionaire! Yeah sure, have my money mate, you've had it since last year anyway! Why would I want it back when I can help see you through this tough time and help put food on your table.

I'm off to lie down :LOL:
 
mattmid said:
As I use PC, I usually have a slightly wider than wide using the camera tool.



That's exactly how I feel about FM. I used to love that game now it just feels like having a second job which is a real shame. I started playing it way back on the Amiga and once had a 27 season career with Wycombe of all teams :)

As for your 'rant' I wouldn't consider it that for a minute :) It eloquently summed up modern football for many I think. The endless drivel pre and post game that I now refuse to even watch. I turn the game on at kick off and switch it off at the final whistle. In fact with some of the Premier games since lockdown I've turned off well before the end.

As to that England squad comparison, I don't think I'd take anybody from 2018 over 1996. Go back to include 86 and 90 and you have the likes of Hoddle, Robson, Wilkins, Barnes, Beardsley, Waddle, the list goes on. Could you possibly pick a less creative midfield than one with Dier and Henderson in it?

Football, and in particular the Premier League at least, has sold it soul I think. The clubs milk fans for all they can get, playing on our loyalty. Look at the proposed wage caps they are talking about for the Championship, League One and League Two. If they do get voted in that would be a huge decrease in outgoings for a lot of clubs. Will any of them lower ticket prices? No chance. I'd doubt the PFA will allow the wage cap to happen though, they will probably threaten to go on strike or something. I do think if it were to happen then it should probably be based on income rather than a blanket figure. Plus the figures are bizarre with the Championship proposed figure of 18m, League 1 of 2.5m and League 2 1.25m. All that will do is create the same huge gap that is currently between the Premier and Championship to then be between the Championship and League One.

In League One they are proposing a 2.5m wage cap and I think a 22 man squad. I saw a report regarding my team saying that it would mean an average of around 1800 wk where as now it's about 3500. Now fair enough that's a big cut in wages, but forgive me for not caring too much as 1800 a week works out to £93k a year to play third tier football, that's not exactly putting them on minimum wage is it. That goes back to my previous point, that would cut our wage bill in half but the ticket price wouldn't go down.

While I'm now ranting :) we had four home games left when lockdown happened. Eventually the club offered three options for season ticket holders, one to get a refund of four games worth of the season ticket price, two was to get that back but keep it in your account to go towards next seasons ticket or three, donate it to the club to help them through the lockdown spell. All well and good and understandable if the club were an Accrington or similar team who are genuinely struggling to survive through this period, but we are owned by a billionaire! Yeah sure, have my money mate, you've had it since last year anyway! Why would I want it back when I can help see you through this tough time and help put food on your table.

I'm off to lie down :LOL:
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Hard to argue with any of that. It is a sorry state of affairs given that football is seemingly as popular as ever. The fact there are billionaire owners in the third tier of english football i suppose tells its own story. It would be one thing if they were local businessmen made good, but the reality is the english football pyramid is a concentrated landscape full of oligarchs, sheikhs, media magnates and the like, no more provincial owners the FA sold itself down the river (whatever happened to their fit and proper person rhetoric) nowadays it's a global conglomeration of variable repute. All in the game for either profit or soft political power.

The game has prostituted itself to such an extent (see the Qatar world cup as a prime example) halcyon days of yore are perhaps understandbly lauded. It wasn't so much that it was a simpler time, I dont think that stands to reason, but it was a burgeoning/pioneering epoch for the sport, its evolution on and off the field over the course of the last 30 years has been ridiculous the incline of the world record transfer fee across the last 25 years is indicative of what type of direction the sport was headed towards. The same reason in cinema westerns are always set in and around the time of the gold rush, everything is crazy, all options are on the table, there is a certain precarious yet rivetting feel of anything being possible good as well as bad that breeds a certain allure. I would dare say the premier league specifically but also football worldwide was in that manifest destiny stage in the 90's where it stumbled from (UK perspective) the known paradigm as in the Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister, Bryan Robson terrain into the hinterlands of Juniniho, Fabrizio Ravenelli, Emerson. Glamour and glitz mixed with bricks and mortar, a perfect recipe for the unpredictable, it inevitably generated a heady allure which still has us nostalgics in its grasp. Nowadays there is no mystique, we are saturated, we all know that Brazillian kid from Gremio before he is even transferred to La Liga or whatever, the allure and mystique has evaporated.

Back to the present day, unfortunately it is a top heavy market, mirrorring society i suppose in that respect you get corporations that take up large percentages of the market share, just like certain football clubs do within the football landscape and just like in business the smaller companies get eaten up and that is essentially what football clubs have become PLC's. The thing that disgusts me is football once belonged to the community, the community used to have a stake, nowadays fans are treated as customers, some clubs cant even hide their disdain for fans, yet look at these souless games we are witnessing minus the crowds, we see how much fans mean to the game itself. Currently it is like watching glorified training sessions, if this was football from here on out, the sport's popularity would no doubt diminish. So fans do have power, it's how to wield it i suppose that is the problem or the question rather.

Anyway apologies to anyone reading, I seemed to have strayed from the PES path. Thankfully I have this game, which for me encapsulates the time period to which I am still enthralled, hypnotised, captivated, bewitched, bessotted with. I am currently editing on PES 3 so that I have teams in the second division of the master league that would belong in the first division if they get promoted for example turning Fulham into Sevilla, PES United into Nantes, etc so if I chose to be Monaco who I think that is where i'm headed I will be in the Western League and the clubs in Division 2 will all be from either Spain, Portugal, France (if that makes sense). Im erring towards Monaco on the basis that their stadium is on the game, I like that for the purposes of realism.
 
delapena23 said:
Nowadays there is no mystique, we are saturated, we all know that Brazillian kid from Gremio before he is even transferred to La Liga or whatever, the allure and mystique has evaporated.
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I said the same recently on here, the world cups and euros as a kid and even beyond were so enjoyable because of that mystery. Finding out about players from the other side of the world, most you'd never even heard of and at best you had vaguely heard of the name. Now as you say just about everyone is known even before they've really made it. I still enjoy the tournaments but that mystique has indeed gone. As for the Qatar World Cup... Have to think it's a shame it wasn't scheduled for 2020, although they'd still play it this year no doubt.

Returning to PES, what a shame it wasn't around back then!
 
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