The Retro-PES Corner

Might find out for myself regarding 2015 - at this rate I'll own all PESes for every PlayStation console by the time lockdown is over...

As for editing, I don't plan on going nuts. Just the big things like team names. But was hoping there was an editor from which I could export. Luckily, I find editing on the console quite therapeutic too. Why? I don't know. Simple pleasures!
It's so rewarding,having a cupper and doing some editing isn't it!

Yeah I imported badges/logos and actually all kits for La Liga 2,and my method has always been the same,if I face a 2nd div team in the cup,i edit them before playing,and probably one other team per sitting.
And obviously promoted teams,and after a week or so of playing most teams are done
 
I played a bunch of 15 in the past days! I think it's the "new gen" Pes I've played the less. I was pretty much disheartened after 14 and didn't gave much of a chance to the game.

So I installed a random PTE patch and gave it a try. Seems like good fun to be honest. Things that jumped in my eyes: IA is super varied- passing was still a lot more free. And it's definitely not as exploitable as 16. Feels a bit like a lighter brother of 17. I like it.
 
I played a bunch of 15 in the past days! I think it's the "new gen" Pes I've played the less. I was pretty much disheartened after 14 and didn't gave much of a chance to the game.

So I installed a random PTE patch and gave it a try. Seems like good fun to be honest. Things that jumped in my eyes: IA is super varied- passing was still a lot more free. And it's definitely not as exploitable as 16. Feels a bit like a lighter brother of 17. I like it.
Always been one of my favourite current gen games (with 17) so I'm deffo trying to get this to work at decent difficulty.

Passing is amazing,I can easily play PA1 and having it feel very free and PA0ish.
Shooting is one of the best in a modern Pes game,maybe the best.
I don't care that the stadium list is thin (even fewer on last gen version)

Ai is very good,dribbling/shooting/crossing very varied.
A nice game indeed
 
After my CPU has died down, I am forced to play slower games like PES 6 over PES 2020.

And let me tell you, after having played a whole Master League season and several international challenges, I truly miss PES 2020 over PES 6 garbage.

PES 6 has inreedemable flaws such as:

- Master League being an absolute joke mode with joke transfers and not even being able to have a full league of 20 teams (how pathetic is that?)

- Team AI being a complete joke, never supporting you in attack and always being out of position in defence (I have seen left backs leave their covered wingers just because?!)

- Do not even get me started on the joke goalkeepers, whose abysmal mistakes has cost me many goals

- Computer AI feels as cheap as the AI in PES 2020 people always complain about. They always score on cheap corners that are impossible to defend and the ref is always biased towards the computer AI.

- Worst of all, 1on1 goalkeepers is so needlessly hard with the limited aiming and feels like a coin flip all the time.

- Shooting accuracy makes no sense and fantastic strikers often make amateur misses

I have tried so hard to like the old school PES but I cannot doit anymore. Newer PES games completely blow the garbage that is PES 6 out of the water and I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who would ever actually prefer playing PES 6 over PES 2020.
Nah...I'm not touching this one.
 
@Worm199: I was sure that post was strangely familiar...

Having now played PES 6 for several months now (due to being tired of the PES 19 scripting and being stuck with a bad laptop), I have come to realise that I have worn nostalgia goggles all aloung! The state of the game was even worse back then than it is now!

The constant clumsiness shown by the players, the shooting controls making no sense, the amateurish goalkeepers, I absolutely cannot stand that old piece of garbage anymore!

The only times I concede goals are due to insane freekicks, ridiculous headers and idiotic goalkeeping (my goalkeeper once litterally punched a goal that was going out back into the field so the opponent's striker could score). Meanwhile, the opponent's defence is absolutely godlike while their goalkeeper makes saves that my goalkeeper wishes he could make.

Seriously I cannot stand watching Modric fumbling around like a goof when colliding with other players. I cannot stand that the moment I finally get a shot on goal the player shoots the ball into space. I cannot stand that most games end up 0-0 because the whole game is build around being as hard as possible to score goals, making it really an anti-fun experience.

It is especially the awful controls that makes me want to put the game away for good. I am actually thankful to go back to playing PES 19 now. PES 6 might have been good for its time, but now it is absolutely laughable.

I would love to be enlightened by PES 6 defenders explaining to me how the game is better in any way than newer PES games.

So to answer your newest post I'll reply with my reply from May 2019...

@Worm199: Even though I don't think PES6 is the best PES of all time, its greatness is self-evident because here we are, 13 years after its release, talking about it - some keep on enjoying the game, some don't, but it's still a kind of ghost that never stops haunting the latest PES releases, as people keep comparing those with that game every time a new iteration comes out. I hope I'll be around to find out whether by the time PES2032 is released, we'll still be comparing it with PES2019 and playing PES2019 instead of PES32.

I couldn't write that last sentence with a straight face, though. And given the tendency, it's much more probable we'll be comparing PES32 with...goddamn PES6. :DD

As for the subject of directly comparing a 13-year-old game with one that is two console generations apart, if you feel the need of comparing both, then you already lost. Retro-PES isn't for you at all, you'll only be wasting time on it, and you'll have no satisfaction in playing anything but the modern game. You're comparing apples with oranges, and because the comparison makes no sense, you'll get no satisfying answer for it.

For me, this is simple: like the game, play it; don't like it, don't. You can talk about the modern games' 4K graphics, XPTO engines, Ultramegamodern technologies, 567 leagues and gazillion players; logically, you're correct, any retro-PES game always loses that comparison. But none of that matters when you're playing. You rather care about having a fun, entertaining and challenging experience every time. I get that with PES6 - among many other retro-PES games. You could write me a list of a thousand things you find wrong about that game, I'd certainly agree with most, but I'd keep playing the game anyway.
Why though? Is it for the game's own merit? Nostalgia goggles as you call it? Me being a dumb f*ck who thinks 8-directional player movement is enough?...
...then again, who cares? I play the game, I like playing it, so I play it again.

In saner times this would be an obvious idea, but I guess it's almost a revolutionary mentality in an age where cognitive dissonance is king, where the audience spends a whole year bashing the newest sports game because they're having a horrible experience with it; yet for some reason they keep on playing it and next year, there they are buying the following iteration, and the cycle never ends. It would go a long way if people stopped buying/playing sports games as if they were investing on the stock market and just sat down, looked at their banquet of available sports games to play and thought to themselves: "what do I feel like playing today?".

Old man rant over.
 
My PS3 PES package arrived late last week and I've taken in a bit of 2012, 2013 and 2014 in the last few days. Boy did I miss out on some good PES the first time round.

I dived straight into Master Leagues and was somewhat taken aback by what's on offer. So much more 'immersive' than 2020. Obviously it's also more in-depth than my boys PES2 and PES3 but that is, chronology considered, unremarkable.

The fact that you have proper staff, who actually interact with you and your customisable visage, and not a couple of nameless nodding dogs with tablets. I loved the coach in 2012, going through the report on the upcoming opponents. Even better, it's not just fluff - it's genuinely relevant and it did indeed ring true with how they performed on the pitch. And then there's the added financial and recruitment responsibilities.

Okay, I was a little disappointed to find out that 2013 recycles a lot of it. The coach replaced by a PA but maybe that's because I hadn't hired a coach? I can't recall. Then, I was even more disappointed to find out that a lot of it is dropped in 2014. A bloody shame.

On the pitch, I'm leaning towards 2012 or 2013. Sorry @Chris Davies and @rockstrongo. Early days yet, of course, but the two of them seemed a little grittier than 2014. The tempo of all three is spot on for me and -coming from 2020 - isn't it refreshing to have a choice between picking locks or battering the door down in an attempt to get to goal. There are gaps, the CPU commits, your players can actually accelerate beyond them.

Cosmetically, I think 2014 looks a little bizarre. Those jagged players and ball don't look like they're at one with the pitch. And those faces... I pride myself on not really caring about the accuracy of faces. It's way down my priority list. But even I have standards. And in all three games the replays are ludicrous. Those frame rates, man.

It's a trio I look forward to playing more. Seriously impressed with all three.
The ML 2012, I know I am repetitive, but is one of the deepest in the whole saga. Especially the next opponent analysis, by the assistant on white board, is the most accurate of any ML. It just saves you the time from browsing the team stats and doing it by yourself. Even the keyplayer is spot on and in matches that I assume are "scripted", usually he is the player that will butcher you 1 or 2 goals.
In 2013 it is as you said, only a Screenshot of the enemy team, no playstyles analysis, no keyplayer, no nothing.

I assume that Konami expelled the team that created the 2011-2013 ML somewhere to Antarctica as a punishment. :)
 
I played a bunch of 15 in the past days! I think it's the "new gen" Pes I've played the less. I was pretty much disheartened after 14 and didn't gave much of a chance to the game.

So I installed a random PTE patch and gave it a try. Seems like good fun to be honest. Things that jumped in my eyes: IA is super varied- passing was still a lot more free. And it's definitely not as exploitable as 16. Feels a bit like a lighter brother of 17. I like it.
PES 2015 is a very decent PES. For many people it was a back to arcade version.
For me back then it was a "back to PES basics". I was in a similar state as you back then, having completely abondon pes since the first months of pes 2014, in combination with some windows 8.1 problems, and I was all the way pes6 Phoenix patch and PES2013.
In March of 2015, I saw for the first time and by coincidence a Youtube Video of PES 2015 and I instantly went out shop it. So I missed its bad beginning and late release.

Very good AI, had some issues with CPU scoring low corner shots, didn't kill the game for me though.
All in all, good main menu, tragic UI inside game modes, especially ML, tragic player presentations in gameplan, had the TEC, SPE, PHY bars. They tried here to pair the presentation with a game they had as Facebook app, a manager game named "PES association Football" if you remember, which had same players presentation and it seems very off on PC.

Also it was painful as I was editing the game manually, importing kits in parts, shirt-sleeves-shorts-socks etc, all by hand one by one! Very painful process. I lately installed PTE patch, assume the same as you and I have this problem both in pes 2015 and 2016. I want to remove PTE patch and continue my own projects, but my game was officially DataPack Ed and live updated by Konami so if I dlgo for a fresh start now, I do not know what will happen to my database, as both game are down from steam.
 
The ML 2012, I know I am repetitive, but is one of the deepest in the whole saga. Especially the next opponent analysis, by the assistant on white board, is the most accurate of any ML. It just saves you the time from browsing the team stats and doing it by yourself. Even the keyplayer is spot on and in matches that I assume are "scripted", usually he is the player that will butcher you 1 or 2 goals.
In 2013 it is as you said, only a Screenshot of the enemy team, no playstyles analysis, no keyplayer, no nothing.

I assume that Konami expelled the team that created the 2011-2013 ML somewhere to Antarctica as a punishment. :)
Great, now I have to get hold of PES 2012 and find out what the best patches are.

Thanks a lot. Another retro PES game to pour half my life into. :D
 
Great, now I have to get hold of PES 2012 and find out what the best patches are.

Thanks a lot. Another retro PES game to pour half my life into. :D
I am sure you will love the communication part. It really helped me to out my inner Mourinho/Sir ALe Ferguson!
X players wants to speak you, "coach I need more playtime". You don't play him, he get ungry with a purple mood face and a permanent down Form arrow.
Me: "You are out", INSTA RELEASE!

Next time: Y player wants to speak "Coach I need more time blah blah blah...
Next match he plays 90 minutes and then he wants to speak you:" Coach I feel tired lately, need some rest by squad rotation"
Me: you are out!!! RELEASE!!!

NEXT week, Shimuzu wants to speak you, just promoted from youth yeam: "Coach I feel I deserve get shit No10"
ME: MOFAKER You are so fired!!!!! RELEASE!!!

I know clubs are not supposed to be managed like this, but at least it helps me feel better! :) :D
 
Also @Madmac79 if you notice. Players in 2015 have a second page of stats with combined abilities, like in 2014, which gives another depth to player stats and attributes. I guess after 2016 it was either removed or became hidden.
 

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@slamsoze haven't noticed about combined stats! Seems interesting. Would love to know what this precisely imply?
Νot sure if it is just a combination of overall of some stats or it has separate consciousness. I can't remember even if you can edit them in game.
IE here in my screen shot it was Ribery stats from pes 2015, he has header accuracy : 63 and jumping: 69, also finishing and attack power: 85. Meanwhile he has heading in combined: 73.
By testing 63+69=132/2=66
63+85=148/2=74.
It is close but not accurate exactly. Notsure if it is a result of stats combination, or completely separate. If it is not just math, it must be the players ID mentality, his DNA info.

https://www.pesmaster.com/f-ribery/pes-2015/player/9129/
 
So now I need to try 2012 then. :) I really enjoyed 2013. I've played a few games of 2014 after @Chris Davies 's appreciation thread. I'm not sure if it was coming straight from 2013 to play it but I didn't quite get into it straight away. I will come back to it though. The other thing with 2014 is that it's the start of the version with the new editing stuff which I'm completely unfamiliar with regarding cpk's and whatnot.

Just reading here about the usual removal of decent stuff from version to version, it's as if Konami has a self destruct button. They have continually brought in things that really add to the series, see that they are well received and then do their best to remove them for reasons unknown. Then they 'invent' an old feature that had no reason to be taken out in the first place.

They are so frustrating with the backward steps they take. For example as I said, I'm really enjoying 2013 but team selection - why is it so hard to view your players stats and compare. The old style of doing it (up to at least 2008) where you could see you whole squad in a list while their stats displayed alongside in the screen where you could select your team. Now in 13 (and presumably at least 12 if not before) you can see that type of screen in your team info but can you select your team there? No. Why make it harder all the time? It's also the time of the OVR rating appearing as well which is one of the worst things to ever happen to the series.

At the weekend I decided to start converting Amador to PES 5 after putting a couple of teams into it and really enjoying how it played. I hadn't played PES 5 in quite a while and had forgotten just how enjoyable it was. So that's my current rabbit hole.
 
I always thought it a shame given the classic free kick system is so simple and effective and has never been bettered in football games.

Having now realised the time of death of this free kick system (PES 2014) I stress this opinion once again. Up, down or nothing at all; fill up that power bar; left, right or nothing at all - with only your poise and the player's attributes standing in the way of the wall, the goal or row Z. Beautiful. Simple.

Talking of player attributes, a reminder came to me as I tidied away some of the mounting cases of PES and FIFA games in the spare room. PES2: "Powered by the Sports Interactive database." I'd totally forgotten that. How long did that agreement last? Curious, knowing that there may be an 'official' stats conversion method out there.
 
PES2: "Powered by the Sports Interactive database." I'd totally forgotten that. How long did that agreement last?

Wow, never knew about that. If it did continue no doubt it ended once Sony took over SI. Shame it wasn't Konami. FM with your matches played out in PES, now that would be a game worth having.
 
Wow, never knew about that. If it did continue no doubt it ended once Sony took over SI. Shame it wasn't Konami. FM with your matches played out in PES, now that would be a game worth having.

I tell a lie. It was PES '1'. But only on the PS1 case, and not the PS2 case. Who knows. No mention on the PS1 case for PES2, so maybe it was just the one year. I can't find the PS1 case for ISS PE2.

Rummaging around boxes of old games >>> Q2 marketing plans. This working from home is great.
 
Talking of player attributes, a reminder came to me as I tidied away some of the mounting cases of PES and FIFA games in the spare room. PES2: "Powered by the Sports Interactive database." I'd totally forgotten that. How long did that agreement last? Curious, knowing that there may be an 'official' stats conversion method out there.
I bring this up every so often. Heartbreaking part of PES history - to be working with the guys behind Football Manager one year, and then, stop without any explanation.

I wasn't aware they'd even got to use the database for one of the games. This is me talking about it a few years ago:

Look at this article: Konami & Sports Interactive Will Collaborate on PES
(There were many more at the time, but this is the only one I can find now...)

Back in 2001 (ignore the date on the article), it was official that Konami had agreed a contract with Sports Interactive to share their database, and rumour had it (in the British press) that they were going to work together beyond this in the future.

Then, none of it happened. It was announced, there were official quotes from SI employees and everything - and it just disappeared. What happened? Something legal? (I've asked on Twitter and been ignored.)

But the bigger issue isn't that we don't have all of FM's features (although we really should have a lot of them by now)... It's that - well, you can lose ten games in a row and somehow your team are all given huge plus "form arrows". When the basics are that random, the rest of it doesn't really matter.

It was in several publications at the time - I think the official PlayStation magazine mentioned it too. I remember reading an interview from either Miles Jacobsen or Marc Duffy, talking about how neither football game was simulating a full 90 minutes like Championship Manager was (it's actually slightly less but that's another story), but that he liked PES and that it did more with the attributes than FIFA.

Imagine where we could be now - seriously - if they'd teamed up for a longer period and ended up cross-skilling to create a deeper game, and a deeper management mode.
 
I bring this up every so often. Heartbreaking part of PES history - to be working with the guys behind Football Manager one year, and then, stop without any explanation.

I wasn't aware they'd even got to use the database for one of the games. This is me talking about it a few years ago:



It was in several publications at the time - I think the official PlayStation magazine mentioned it too. I remember reading an interview from either Miles Jacobsen or Marc Duffy, talking about how neither football game was simulating a full 90 minutes like Championship Manager was (it's actually slightly less but that's another story), but that he liked PES and that it did more with the attributes than FIFA.

Imagine where we could be now - seriously - if they'd teamed up for a longer period and ended up cross-skilling to create a deeper game, and a deeper management mode.

I remember reading it at the time. Penny only dropped again after I caught a glimpse of the box. It does seem remiss of Konami and SI not to do more with a partnership, so eminent were their respective titles without being direct rivals.

But this is the only evidence, below. It's only on the PS1 case as I say. Surely it wasn't just relevant to the PS1 version...

20200630_181959.jpg
 
It's so rewarding,having a cupper and doing some editing isn't it!

Yeah I imported badges/logos and actually all kits for La Liga 2,and my method has always been the same,if I face a 2nd div team in the cup,i edit them before playing,and probably one other team per sitting.
And obviously promoted teams,and after a week or so of playing most teams are done

Meant to say earlier; this is a pretty novel way of doing things - I like it. Any idea where I can get 2012-13 kits from? Usually not fussed about kits but the unlicensed ones are shocking.
 
Today, I made peace with PES 2008 on PS3.

Older and wiser, after 13 years, I realise it's not as bad as I thought it was at the time, although I can still understand why I was so disappointed.

It looks dreadful, like everything is made from Lego, nay, Duplo. Add to that some stuttering, it's not a feast for the eyes. The gameplay is a lot closer to PES6 - and therefore better - than I recall. This familiarity was reflected in the scorelines, as I romped through a few ML matches. I sense that I was blinded by it simply not being as good as I'd hoped, rather than taking it at face value for what it was. Perhaps my expectations were too high. It was the first run out on the PS3 but I still get a sense that Konami didn't grasp the console as well as they could've. All in all, we've shaken hands but I don't expect our paths to cross again. We're not gonna play football (soccer) all around the world - it's away to gather dust as part of the collection.

On to PES 2009. Easier on the eye, a little weightier, a little slower - I was impressed. I did play it at the time but was indifferent. Perhaps it was in the mind - by that point I felt bridges had been burned and I was lost to FIFA as it started to get its act together. But on its own merits, 2009 plays well. It's the game I think 2008 could've been, and PES could've retained a lot of the players it lost, myself included. Somehow, though, the sound manages to be worse than 2008. To the untrained ear, the crowd noise was 90 minutes simulated minutes of Mancunians shouting "danger, danger". Just horrific. Having already muted Jon Champion, because I have to, it really stood out. Not for much longer, thanks to Spotify.

I leave with a question on both titles: what's with the Scottie dog in Master League?
 
It looks dreadful, like everything is made from Lego, nay, Duplo. Add to that some stuttering, it's not a feast for the eyes. The gameplay is a lot closer to PES6 - and therefore better - than I recall. This familiarity was reflected in the scorelines, as I romped through a few ML matches. I sense that I was blinded by it simply not being as good as I'd hoped, rather than taking it at face value for what it was. Perhaps my expectations were too high. It was the first run out on the PS3 but I still get a sense that Konami didn't grasp the console as well as they could've. All in all, we've shaken hands but I don't expect our paths to cross again. We're not gonna play football (soccer) all around the world - it's away to gather dust as part of the collection.

I don't think I've ever been (or will ever be) more disappointed with a new game than I was with PES 2008. I loved PES 6, and it is still by far my favourite PES. FIFA 08 which was already out on PS3 was such a step forward from FIFA 07, I was blown away. So surely PES would be even more incredible right? There was also talk from the devs about how it would be "an editor's dream" and remember seeing fake screenshots of a stadium builder (maybe on this forum). A life lesson!
 
2008 on pc with higher res isn't quite the disaster I remember. It's actually enjoyable under the right conditions.

But all in all as the first game of that new gen it was terribly underwhelming. 2009 was more polished and it probably would have looked better, even if some gameplay choices terribly crippled it too imho.
 
If I buy the Xbox 360 I'm gunning for tmw,it'll have both Pes 6 (rubbish on 360 right) and Pes 2008.
And I'm looking to get 12/14 as well.

I wonder how many times I've re bought different Pes games?
 
I used the camerazoomer tool in Kitserver to wonderfully zoom out on the wide camera (PES6). I'd like to experiment with the vertical long camera - is it possible to zoom that out or is it just for the wide camera?
 
I don't think I've ever been (or will ever be) more disappointed with a new game than I was with PES 2008. I loved PES 6, and it is still by far my favourite PES. FIFA 08 which was already out on PS3 was such a step forward from FIFA 07, I was blown away. So surely PES would be even more incredible right? There was also talk from the devs about how it would be "an editor's dream" and remember seeing fake screenshots of a stadium builder (maybe on this forum). A life lesson!

I was heartbroken. It didn't look, sound or play as I'd imagined. In retrospect, it was right to have let me down on two of those three fronts. The editing/importing only compounded the misery, as I was big into editing back then.

For my disappointment, the only game that lays a glove on it was WWF Attitude. Thankfully, Wrestlemania 2000 was there to do way more than soften the blow.

If I buy the Xbox 360 I'm gunning for tmw,it'll have both Pes 6 (rubbish on 360 right) and Pes 2008.
And I'm looking to get 12/14 as well.

I wonder how many times I've re bought different Pes games?

I'm the same. The last few months alone I've rebought so many. Some for the third time I think.
 
I was heartbroken. It didn't look, sound or play as I'd imagined. In retrospect, it was right to have let me down on two of those three fronts. The editing/importing only compounded the misery, as I was big into editing back then.

For my disappointment, the only game that lays a glove on it was WWF Attitude. Thankfully, Wrestlemania 2000 was there to do way more than soften the blow.



I'm the same. The last few months alone I've rebought so many. Some for the third time I think.
Was clearing out a drawer full of dvd/dvd covers today,found this
IMG_20200701_175523.jpg

Maybe Discovery/History channel should push for Garage gold gamers edition?
 
Anyone used the 'load prequel data' option in PES 2012-14? Thought I'd do some editing in 2012 and just carry the data over but 2013 doesn't seem to recognise there's anything there.
 
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