The Retro-PES Corner

i made a new discovery for me, while playing pes 4 :BLUSH:

the cam angle has effect on speed too, not just the different cameras :SS:OH:

all those years..:DOH::SHHH::JAY:

comes in handy for pes 4 to get it slower, man im happy now :WOOT::...
need to adjust to this because the most i playd is maybe angle 4, it has pro n cons regarding overview of the pitch, just sometimes its hard for me to cope with the controls or something

i like this effect even more than zooming out/further away cam, its so smooth wow:TU:
 
miguelfcp said:
Time for a new challenge.
I was curious to fire up PES6 on the PS2, given it's a game I haven't played for a long long time - except for Amador and a few PC patches I've played over the years. Given I didn't have enough points to buy the ML structure tool on the PES Shop, I took this opportunity to play out a challenge I had thought of but had never played, which would also help me win the necessary points to buy stuff on the Shop.

This is the Ironman Challenge.
I'm starting a League mode (Serie A) and will be controling all of the 20 participating teams. This means I'll play every match on every fixture as the home team, but here's the twist: I can't lose a match. When/if I lose, it's game over and I'll have to start another League mode from scratch if I want to keep playing this challenge. Only a win or draw on each match will allow me to continue playing.

Serie A - Fixture 1

Atalanta 1-0 Sampdoria (Vieri 32')
Roma 1-1 Chievo (Montella 73' // Obinna 19')
Parma 1-0 Livorno (Budan 63')
Udinese 1-0 Inter (Iaquinta 20')
Reggina 2-0 Cagliari (Rolando Bianchi 20', Amoruso 32')
Fiorentina 4-1 Torino (Mutu 12', Toni 45', Donadel 63', Riganò 81' // Oguro 28')
Siena 2-0 Lazio (Chiesa 21', Bogdani 48')
Messina 1-0 Empoli (Di Napoli 67')
Milan 4-0 Catania (Inzaghi 26', Gattuso 30' 76', Gilardino 72')
Palermo 4-0 Ascoli (Di Michele 16', Diana 38', Zaccardo 54', Brienza 77')

Survived the first round!

+++

A few surprises here and there on this opening round: Chievo's draw vs Roma, Udinese's win vs Inter and Siena's win over Lazio. On a different level, Reggina's comfortable win over Cagliari was also surprising.
Oh, and Gattuso will be the league's top scorer for at least a week! :DD

Round 2

Ascoli - Inter
Sampdoria - Empoli
Cagliari - Catania
Lazio - Parma
Udinese - Siena
Fiorentina - Atalanta
Milan - Messina
Roma - Reggina
Chievo - Palermo
Livorno - Torino

Italian bookmakers are confident I'll break on Fixture 2, as the fragile Ascoli will be facing the superb powerhouse Inter. I don't think there'll be many more theoretically lopsided matches than this, probably an Ascoli-Milan or Messina-Inter/Milan. And it's actually the first match of the fixture, I've checked...so, will it be an early exit for me on this Ironman Challenge?
Click to expand...

@miguelfcp , how are you finding the dribble control in PES 6 (Playstation 2) ?
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: Doesn't come close to the level of control you get on PES3/4, but after sampling many different Serie A teams, it's noticeable how better dribblers can wreck havoc with ease: Kaká with his 90-something (95 I think) Dribble Speed is a joy to control and watch. I was expecting to see Totti shine on this regard too but that Roma-Chievo match was horrible for the home team, no Roma player was inspired.
By the way I thought of doing this challenge on PES4, played it for about a week and loved the game despite the strange shooting mechanics - 90% of the my shots look like passes instead of shots...- and also despite the gameplay being so fast, though it's actually enjoyable in an arcade-ish way. Turns out you can't control all of the 20 teams on PES4 League Mode, so I went with PES6.

@fmicablues7: Just to expand on what you were saying, not only the new generation holds FIFA as the undisputed king of football gaming in modern days (as we did with PES on the PS2 era) but they also were raised/conditioned to expect instant gratification and to be served. I see retro-PES games as fantastic platforms to mess around, mainly with the database given I have no graphic editing skills at all, to create something of my own...I haven't found that mentality on this new generation. They want everything fixed, everything perfect, and they want it now: but it's got to be someone else doing it, not them. This is why I cringe everytime I hear/read the already classic "hey, Player X's overall rating on the new sports game is too low, outrageous! Fix it VideoGame Developer!"...dude...how about you go on that little thing called Edit Mode and...upgrade the stats yourself?
Ramblings of an old man.
 
miguelfcp said:
@WhoAteMeDinner: Doesn't come close to the level of control you get on PES3/4, but after sampling many different Serie A teams, it's noticeable how better dribblers can wreck havoc with ease: Kaká with his 90-something (95 I think) Dribble Speed is a joy to control and watch. I was expecting to see Totti shine on this regard too but that Roma-Chievo match was horrible for the home team, no Roma player was inspired.
By the way I thought of doing this challenge on PES4, played it for about a week and loved the game despite the strange shooting mechanics - 90% of the my shots look like passes instead of shots...- and also despite the gameplay being so fast, though it's actually enjoyable in an arcade-ish way. Turns out you can't control all of the 20 teams on PES4 League Mode, so I went with PES6.

@fmicablues7: Just to expand on what you were saying, not only the new generation holds FIFA as the undisputed king of football gaming in modern days (as we did with PES on the PS2 era) but they also were raised/conditioned to expect instant gratification and to be served. I see retro-PES games as fantastic platforms to mess around, mainly with the database given I have no graphic editing skills at all, to create something of my own...I haven't found that mentality on this new generation. They want everything fixed, everything perfect, and they want it now: but it's got to be someone else doing it, not them. This is why I cringe everytime I hear/read the already classic "hey, Player X's overall rating on the new sports game is too low, outrageous! Fix it VideoGame Developer!"...dude...how about you go on that little thing called Edit Mode and...upgrade the stats yourself?
Ramblings of an old man.
Click to expand...

@miguelfcp , have never come across any expert dribblers yet in PES 6. Every player just bashes the ball six or seven yards in front of their feet with each touch, which makes the keeper's job a sweeper at the back. That lack of forward threat breaking through one-on-one with the goalkeeper completely alters the game's strategy and tactics, you can move the defensive line up to halfway and not worry about the ball in behind or over the top. Making for a very one-dimensional contest.

If a player needs a dark red 95 dribble and technique stat or above to have close control, then that is a gameplay error, not a good feature. Has to be a happy medium between the ball stuck to every player's foot in later PES games, no matter what ability and 99.9% having the touch of a Sunday league bloke still drunk from the night before.

PES 6 is a sort of last, half decent PES title, before all the pure tosh arrives in later editions, but PES 3 as always shows the true way, all players have good dribble control, but the very best have a god-like hold of the ball. And every subtle difference in ability is visible in the play on pitch.

PES 3, then, now and always......:BSCARF::BSCARF::BSCARF:
 
cosmo said:
:D
I found one yesterday, but the thing is it seems that the kitserver does not support the nodvd .exe :DOH: (i wrote here in kitserver 6 thread)

I only played a bit in training mode, not sure about any differences to PES6, my research was mixed, some wrote it has some positives vs PES6, dunno, PES is huge placebo and recency + confirmation bias lalaland
cant be bothered to play it wo kitserver tbh

Now i will try Pes 2013, same settings as 2012, no patch on 1.0 no dlc 15 min play on 4* amsterdam arena night same teams, reading in the yair gameplay mod threads was funny on 2012 and 13 :LMAO: ala noo 1.0 was better or nooo demo 1 or 2 was better blabla, these guys test the patches half year and do not even play the game properly only to find out thats not save the games lol, in doubt the earlier the gamecode the better :LOL:, so just test 1.0 and move on..

i could give you the link to we2007 if you want, i think i bookmarked it

ps
2013 is sooo slow, even on speed 1 wtf, need to try with other vsync method, the konami one is slow as fu
the high balls are crap in 2013, no power at all, it all feels sluggish and "smeary" to play, 2012 is more direct, cant tell that 2013 has better animations or transitions or something

i dont think thats for me, i didnt play 2013 back then, bought yes unlike 2012 but the singleplayer modes i was dissapointed fast and never touched it again
i think its either pes 3 or 4 if some cam tool comes out for it, just want a solid game that i can play from time to time wo getting annoyed by it that much xD

yes alright both games 12 and 13 are very similar tbh, players struggle to get to them flat passes and through balls, its just a smeary drag to play nothing else

edit
hmm jenkeys tool for 2014 has ref strictness slider, now this is very interesting..
but i remember 2014 being a shell regarding player individualism/stats showing on pitch, but for now this is the only newer game that interests me, maybe 2009 for the fun, i only played that online basically, totally forgot offline experience
Click to expand...

I played just a few games of WE2007 on PCSX2. Can't tell any differences with PES6 so far.
I like firing up from time to time a few games on PES2012 and PES2013, but i wouldn't play them regularly. The main problem for me in these games is the CPU. The CPU will try too much to dribble through your entire defense and they never play possession game, it's annoying. PS2 PES have such a good CPU build-up compared to these...
If stats influence is your thing, you'll be disappointed by 2014. It's a shell, as you said.
I played a few PES4 games yesterday, it's a great game, but it is unfortunately too easy to score against the CPU.

miguelfcp said:
@WhoAteMeDinner: Doesn't come close to the level of control you get on PES3/4, but after sampling many different Serie A teams, it's noticeable how better dribblers can wreck havoc with ease: Kaká with his 90-something (95 I think) Dribble Speed is a joy to control and watch. I was expecting to see Totti shine on this regard too but that Roma-Chievo match was horrible for the home team, no Roma player was inspired.
By the way I thought of doing this challenge on PES4, played it for about a week and loved the game despite the strange shooting mechanics - 90% of the my shots look like passes instead of shots...- and also despite the gameplay being so fast, though it's actually enjoyable in an arcade-ish way. Turns out you can't control all of the 20 teams on PES4 League Mode, so I went with PES6.

@fmicablues7: Just to expand on what you were saying, not only the new generation holds FIFA as the undisputed king of football gaming in modern days (as we did with PES on the PS2 era) but they also were raised/conditioned to expect instant gratification and to be served. I see retro-PES games as fantastic platforms to mess around, mainly with the database given I have no graphic editing skills at all, to create something of my own...I haven't found that mentality on this new generation. They want everything fixed, everything perfect, and they want it now: but it's got to be someone else doing it, not them. This is why I cringe everytime I hear/read the already classic "hey, Player X's overall rating on the new sports game is too low, outrageous! Fix it VideoGame Developer!"...dude...how about you go on that little thing called Edit Mode and...upgrade the stats yourself?
Ramblings of an old man.
Click to expand...

To mess around with the database is maybe the reason i love so much the old PES. My favorite thing is to recreate real life players and teams playstyle in-game, and with the stats influence, PS2 PES are the perfect platforms for that. If these PES had the FIFA14 teams tactics sliders, they would be the perfect games team and player individuality-wise.
To be fair, on FIFA you can't edit stats in-game, so the players have to wait on EA's fixes or edit with external editors on PC (which don't work anymore, since FIFA 17 restricted modding possibilities :Y1), but yes, most of these "kids" don't want to get their hands dirty anymore.

WhoAteMeDinner said:
@miguelfcp , have never come across any expert dribblers yet in PES 6. Every player just bashes the ball six or seven yards in front of their feet with each touch, which makes the keeper's job a sweeper at the back. That lack of forward threat breaking through one-on-one with the goalkeeper completely alters the game's strategy and tactics, you can move the defensive line up to halfway and not worry about the ball in behind or over the top. Making for a very one-dimensional contest.

If a player needs a dark red 95 dribble and technique stat or above to have close control, then that is a gameplay error, not a good feature. Has to be a happy medium between the ball stuck to every player's foot in later PES games, no matter what ability and 99.9% having the touch of a Sunday league bloke still drunk from the night before.

PES 6 is a sort of last, half decent PES title, before all the pure tosh arrives in later editions, but PES 3 as always shows the true way, all players have good dribble control, but the very best have a god-like hold of the ball. And every subtle difference in ability is visible in the play on pitch.

PES 3, then, now and always......:BSCARF::BSCARF::BSCARF:
Click to expand...

Funny, i always thought PES6's close control was overpowered. At least, in the top teams. For example, i tested Lukaku in both PES3 and PES6 with the same stats (PSD stats), he was more clumsy in PES3, which i find realistic.
 
fmicablues7 said:
I played just a few games of WE2007 on PCSX2. Can't tell any differences with PES6 so far.
I like firing up from time to time a few games on PES2012 and PES2013, but i wouldn't play them regularly. The main problem for me in these games is the CPU. The CPU will try too much to dribble through your entire defense and they never play possession game, it's annoying. PS2 PES have such a good CPU build-up compared to these...
If stats influence is your thing, you'll be disappointed by 2014. It's a shell, as you said.
I played a few PES4 games yesterday, it's a great game, but it is unfortunately too easy to score against the CPU.



To mess around with the database is maybe the reason i love so much the old PES. My favorite thing is to recreate real life players and teams playstyle in-game, and with the stats influence, PS2 PES are the perfect platforms for that. If these PES had the FIFA14 teams tactics sliders, they would be the perfect games team and player individuality-wise.
To be fair, on FIFA you can't edit stats in-game, so the players have to wait on EA's fixes or edit with external editors on PC (which don't work anymore, since FIFA 17 restricted modding possibilities :Y1), but yes, most of these "kids" don't want to get their hands dirty anymore.



Funny, i always thought PES6's close control was overpowered. At least, in the top teams. For example, i tested Lukaku in both PES3 and PES6 with the same stats (PSD stats), he was more clumsy in PES3, which i find realistic.
Click to expand...

Nope, I just can't see it and there are some top players in Division 2 in my PES 6 ML. I agree there are significant differences in dribble ability and control for each player in PES 3, seeing as dribble accuracy, dribble speed and technique all contribute to a player's on the ball touch.

When you get a holy trinity of high stats in these three, you get Roberto Baggio....:LOVE::LOVE::LOVE:
 
WhoAteMeDinner said:
:OT:
@mattmid , @Chris Davies , @rsl1 and to any other English evo members,
are you all at the Royal wedding today ?

:COAT::COAT::COAT:
Click to expand...
No I'm at work, something the royals wouldn't know anything about. I hope they have a lovely time / life together, but I'd much prefer it if I could get some of that taxpayer money back and they got one less silver spoon to add to the collection.
 
Dribbling was very effective in PES3/4. I managed to dribble all the way up the pitch and score with Ledley King against my brother once. I'm still adamant it was very tricky to tackle in PES3, always resulting in those stupid nothing fouls.
 
Titch said:
Dribbling was very effective in PES3/4. I managed to dribble all the way up the pitch and score with Ledley King against my brother once. I'm still adamant it was very tricky to tackle in PES3, always resulting in those stupid nothing fouls.
Click to expand...

@Titch , that was very impressive in any game in PES 3 (or PES 4 I assume was similar) and with Ledley King even more so with poor Ledley's knees. Only Bobby Baggio and Recoba have done that to me in PES 3.

:SAL::SAL::SAL:
 
Titch said:
Dribbling was very effective in PES3/4. I managed to dribble all the way up the pitch and score with Ledley King against my brother once. I'm still adamant it was very tricky to tackle in PES3, always resulting in those stupid nothing fouls.
Click to expand...

Well, your brother knows nothing about cynical fouls, then. :PP
I have yet to score a solo run beating 3-4 players in PES3, against the CPU that is, ***** difficulty. Even with Messi.
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: When it comes to controlling the players yourself, you definitely are able to get that close control feeling you describe - even if, as I said, it's not as perfect as PES3. Yesterday, as I was playing with Milan, I subbed in a short fella named Foggia and though he's not a world class dribbler, the control he had on the ball was amazing.
Now, so far I've been able to neutralize any good CPU dribblers. Curiously the ones that caused me more problems on my defenses were less known guys like Chievo's striker Obinna, a guy from Empoli I can't remember his name, and Rocchi from Lazio (this one's more famous but still, as far as I remember he's not a world class dribbler). Inter's Adriano gave me a bit of trouble but not as much as the other three.
 
miguelfcp said:
@WhoAteMeDinner: When it comes to controlling the players yourself, you definitely are able to get that close control feeling you describe - even if, as I said, it's not as perfect as PES3. Yesterday, as I was playing with Milan, I subbed in a short fella named Foggia and though he's not a world class dribbler, the control he had on the ball was amazing.
Now, so far I've been able to neutralize any good CPU dribblers. Curiously the ones that caused me more problems on my defenses were less known guys like Chievo's striker Obinna, a guy from Empoli I can't remember his name, and Rocchi from Lazio (this one's more famous but still, as far as I remember he's not a world class dribbler). Inter's Adriano gave me a bit of trouble but not as much as the other three.
Click to expand...

@miguelfcp , fair to say I have no player in my default squad with anything like 90 or above dribble stats and I agree that some players on COM teams are good dribblers in PES 6. I have played against Obinna as well and he has decent control.

The one thing that kills PES 6 remains the inability of any player to score one-on-one with the goalkeeper. It has happened hundreds of times now that a COM player just kicks the ball into my keeper's gloves. That is a massive gameplay omission.
 
WhoAteMeDinner said:
@miguelfcp , fair to say I have no player in my default squad with anything like 90 or above dribble stats and I agree that some players on COM teams are good dribblers in PES 6. I have played against Obinna as well and he has decent control.

The one thing that kills PES 6 remains the inability of any player to score one-on-one with the goalkeeper. It has happened hundreds of times now that a COM player just kicks the ball into my keeper's gloves. That is a massive gameplay omission.
Click to expand...

It's true the CPU struggle to score on 1-on-1 against the keeper in PES6. It seems like the CPU doesn't know what to do, when the goalkeeper comes out. But this is not related to dribble stats IMO.
 
Will try to keep an eye out for it, haven't noticed it yet.

Regarding PES3, is the structure of the ML always the same? Yesterday I restarted a few saves to see what structure I'd get and I noticed Fulham and Benfica (Lisbonera) started always on the 2nd division. What seems to change is the placement of the teams on each of the 4 leagues, as I spotted WE United starting out on different leagues on each try.
Also I wasn't aware you couldn't change the structure yourself as we're able to on later PES games.
 
I never played PES 3 and PES 4. Today I decided to try PES 3 on PC. AWESOME. I thought that PES 6 was the best game, it's nothing compared to PES 3, I really like the gameplay, how the CPU behave, and the animations. Don't know if it's just me, but I think that PES 3 has better animations. It's a shame that there is not the full Italian league.
I noticed it is licensed in PES 4. How is PES 4?
 
@Walker™: It's really something, isn't it? Shame that an editing community was never built around PES3, this game aged like fine wine.
About PES4, to me it's definitely inferior to PES3. The gameplay is super fast-paced, shooting is very awkard but still it's very enjoyable to play. In one word, it's "electrifying". As we've often said here on the Corner, any game from PES2-6 is worth playing, each one in its own way.
 
@WhoAteMeDinner I honestly can't say I've ever noticed that on PES6 about the one-on-one's. But it is many years since I played with the 'vanilla' players. I've even had Amador players scoring one-on-one's against me. Does your keeper have the 1-on-1 ability by any chance, I'm wondering if that's factoring in? Maybe it's another PS difference to PC? I've never played it on PS.


@Walker™ PES3 on the PC? With an emulator do you mean?
 
Yep, it was the first on PC, it started the golden age of PC football, what a run!

fmicablues7 said:
I played a few PES4 games yesterday, it's a great game, but it is unfortunately too easy to score against the CPU.
Click to expand...

And PES 4 was the first to have online multiplayer!
And yes, it's like the opposite regarding that to PES 3, but I somehow like it, too.
It has that free-flowing dynamic box-to-box flow to it, without losing too much on midfield and stuff imo.

I too felt the shots sometimes to be very weak @miguelfcp, which is an interesting contradiction to what blues wrote but somehow both is correct, its a bit weird.

I noticed that hold R2 then load up shoot for a curler works better and more consistent than PES 3 btw so im happy about that, load up then R2 is the same as PES 3 in that it triggers either cancel or putting away the ball from the foot.

Now I need to try PES 3 again with the cam angle 9 applied there as well, playing 20 min. match with Iran and China or something, that must be very slow gameplay!

ps
oh and the wolf evo 2005 patch for PES4 has weird stats, the good players have very high stats, and too many star abilities, Heitinga for example has "Lines" :NO: and stuff, I need to try some other patch out.
 
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One move I always spam is when you have your back to goal and press R2 to make the player turn round. Does anyone else use this often? I find its a little too easy to pull off. Can't remember which version it was first introduced in.
 
I tried on PES 3 to get the cam right with the LOD in mind (and speed as well), because there is no lodmixer for 3 which is a bloody shame, same or worse than no cam tool for PES 4, we need to start a petition or something moving for these titles to get the basics as 5 and 6, its unbearable!

So basically on long cam, zoom 1500, angle 9, one can see the captains band which is good but no further details like player number on the shorts, if trying to achieve that and zooming further in its becoming too fast for my liking and a bit too close, so there is no perfect match.:((

@Titch
thats PES4 ;)

In which situations do you use it specifically?
Because I rarely use it..
In PES 4 the player does not turn if a defender is already behind you surely this is the case in any title I guess (shield animation active), so for me its just a nice gimmick sometimes in deep midfield or something..

ps
whats the best pes 4 version for pc? (and pes 3 while we re at it)
on wiki there is some late korean release we8, we9le had a pc version but i guess that late we8 kor release was console only? and is we8i (us) different to pes4?
 
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WhoAteMeDinner said:
have never come across any expert dribblers yet in PES 6. Every player just bashes the ball six or seven yards in front of their feet with each touch, which makes the keeper's job a sweeper at the back. That lack of forward threat breaking through one-on-one with the goalkeeper completely alters the game's strategy and tactics, you can move the defensive line up to halfway and not worry about the ball in behind or over the top. Making for a very one-dimensional contest.
Click to expand...


@WhoAteMeDinner Only just saw this Mr Dinner, I missed the top half of this page for some reason. I'm really becoming convinced the PS PES6 must be a lot different than the PC one. The only time you hit a ball way ahead of you when dribbling is if you are tapping the sprint button when connecting with the ball, otherwise it's more or less at your feet on the PC version and the AI plays it in behind if you have a high line. I was playing a game the other night with a high line and the AI was continually trying to get in behind like that. I actually switched my line to B because of it in the second half.

Just found this that I uploaded a while ago too (starts at about 30 seconds) a 1-on-1 and it's the AI. The player was a Brazilian Serie A player so not the owner of a superstar stats sheet by any means. By the way I'm not doubting what you're seeing, just like I say I've never really noticed it.

 
Titch said:
One move I always spam is when you have your back to goal and press R2 to make the player turn round. Does anyone else use this often? I find its a little too easy to pull off. Can't remember which version it was first introduced in.
Click to expand...
If I recall right it was introduced in pes5.In the previous engine mechanics you could just keep the R1 only without d-pad and your player was keep running in a fixed direction of the 8-axis. Without check I give pes 5 90% and pes 4 10% for this R2 mechanic introduction.
And yes this was the move I used to abuse at most.Especially va human it used to give me huge number of fouls,or making a burst combo,R2,player turn ,R2+R1+diagonal direction to make a burst move that when successful could produce momentum for plays that cannot be produced even in the modern games.
 
miguelfcp said:
Will try to keep an eye out for it, haven't noticed it yet.

Regarding PES3, is the structure of the ML always the same? Yesterday I restarted a few saves to see what structure I'd get and I noticed Fulham and Benfica (Lisbonera) started always on the 2nd division. What seems to change is the placement of the teams on each of the 4 leagues, as I spotted WE United starting out on different leagues on each try.
Also I wasn't aware you couldn't change the structure yourself as we're able to on later PES games.
Click to expand...

If I remember, you can determine what european region, (east, west, north, south), to play Division One in when you get promoted, that will decide what teams you will face mostly in Division 2. The PES random clubs like WE United, PES United and Capolo are dispersed wherever.

:FISH:
 
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Walker™ said:
I never played PES 3 and PES 4. Today I decided to try PES 3 on PC. AWESOME. I thought that PES 6 was the best game, it's nothing compared to PES 3, I really like the gameplay, how the CPU behave, and the animations. Don't know if it's just me, but I think that PES 3 has better animations. It's a shame that there is not the full Italian league.
I noticed it is licensed in PES 4. How is PES 4?
Click to expand...

@Walker™ , welcome to the PES 3 brotherhood, our brethren of the true path grows by the day.

:WORSHIP::WORSHIP::WORSHIP:
 
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