The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

Which PES 2012 version do you prefer?

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Have you never had a shot go in the opposite direction Jimmy? I had it happen a few times in the old versions, quite bizarre.
 
I just watched that goal. On my phone here sorry. I agree with Jimmy - you're at a perfect angle for where your shot went. Off 1 step you wanted to hit the ball 45 degrees or more across your body? It would have been a miracle to hit it along the ground with pace. In the air maybe it could have worked.

Is it possible because you shot so quick that the direction didn't register and the shot just went straight?? Possibly.
 
Ern Dog said:
Have you never had a shot go in the opposite direction Jimmy? I had it happen a few times in the old versions, quite bizarre.
Click to expand...

Not once Tom, not never. I've had the odd mis-press like Calcio mentioned where my hand slipped and didn't register a quick movement but that's it. I always hold the direction even after I have applied the power. That's why my problem has always been, applying too much direction. And every single one of my video Highlights shows that. I'm too guilty of over-pressing/holding the direction. I do it all the time.

Like I said though, I'm now fully understanding where some people are having problems. This isnt like old PES games, this is where the whole simulation side really comes into it. Adhering to basics is paramount.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
I honestly don't know why you pressed left and it went to the keepers right, I wasn't there. I have no clue.

What I do know is that from that extreme angle, and it was for the type of direction your looking for, he would have never have made that direction anyway. It's not something you would generally even attempt. Your posture is all wrong for that corner. Like I said, the only option would have been R2, and the reason for this, is that the shot your attempting from that angle/posture would require control. The shooting technique is actually the exact same technique as a 'reverse pass'.

I'm suprised that the shot, if you aimed to the keepers right, from that stance, didnt either go straight down the middle or a bit to the right. It's not all about which direction you push, that means little sometimes if you havent set yourself right.
Click to expand...

This is my point Jim, and I think you are grasping it now. I wouldn't have cared if the player fell over and broke his ankle and crumpled in a heap because the 'technique' into the shot was all wrong. If I was asking my player to execute something that was wrong then the result may not mirror what I envisaged in my head. But it still should go the direction I aimed...for the shot to rocket into the ROOF of the net top left was just lol stuff.

Here's some goals I have scored -

http://youtu.be/DIEHmVIYuoE

In all the goals the technique and execution are what I planned. I have almost two hundred goals all saved, a combination of PS3 and PC. The PS3 generally does what I want, but then sometimes it doesn't. A modded PC version has totally eradicated the shot going the opposite way issue, so it must be in the code somewhere. I too, like you, am a great believer in setting yourself, and getting to execute the shot properly, taking into consideration all the parameters and variablkes. I'm no FIFA arcade player believe me. But for the first time ever I really am unsure how the shot will shape on the PS3, as sometimes it just does totally the opposite of what I input into the controller.
 
pj_puttz said:
As for the goals issue, I did say I can appreciate how they are decent goals within the limitations of the game but to say it's realistic is too much of a stretch for me. If you admit the animations are poor and it is the "prinicples" you are enjoying then surely you are admitting to filling in the parts the game is failing to show accurately in order to create realism in your own mind? You are willing to overlook the obvious flaws in order to draw a comparison in your own mind to real life football.
Click to expand...

The above is absolutely true. It's something people have to do with every football game too - be it the latest FIFAs, or vintage PS2 PES. You'll never get a title where this isn't the case.

Animations are chiefly cosmetic. They clearly do have something to offer in terms of adding realism to a game - animations can carry important information about the validity of a shot opportunity, or show you when it's better to turn one way or the other, and PES 2012's animations usually do at least supply this info - but they can't hold a candle to what gameplay can offer by contrast.

What is the point in having a flawless animation system when you cannot hit lobs such as Jimmy's (in the Football Life thread)? What good is having a huge number of shot animations if they're all supplying you with the same shot trajectory as an end result?

I played PES 2012 last night (MLO) for the first time in 6 weeks or so, and found a lot of aspects of it horrifying. Not just animations, but the general chaos and bias towards dribblers/sprinting/lobbed through balls.

But, within that framework, I still found certain passing moves, feints, tactical improvisations and use of clever shooting posture that I have never been able to get out of FIFA, even after years of talking directly to their devs and explaining through videos what their game is missing. That lob Jimmy scored just isn't possible in FIFA, and that's not a result of PES having an animation that FIFA doesn't. Meanwhile I don't think I've seen a single FIFA video that actually impresses me from a footballing perspective, even though some of them are very impressively animated. For all that people go on about full manual controls, I've never seen a full manual match that looked more like a football game than what two sim-minded players could achieve with semi or assisted.
 
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Agree with both viewpoints here:

Jimmy is right in alot of aspects, the direction Gerrard is facing when he opens up the goal is diagonally straight towards the corner that the shot actually went in, so naturally the shot makes perfect sense to go where it did.
The fact that you wanted a low drive into the opposite bottom corner ccshopland is difficult, as Jimmy said, gerrard would have had to wrap his whole foot around the side of the ball to get that direction on it, not only that hisupper body would have been in direct opposition to the shot he was trying to pull off, which would have led to greater inaccuracy.
The best way for gerrard to have hit that bottom right corner would have been to strike up and through the left hand side of the ball, would have required great technique, which gerrard arguably has.

BUT ... I agree, the fact that you wanted to pull off a shot that wasnt the most natural or feasible of shot choices shouldnt have resulted in the game deciding that instead you would stick it where it made most sense, what should have happened is either a poorly executed shot, a shot screwed wildly wide where you had to over compensate the direction, or stats allowing, even seen the player fall on his ass attempting the shot, what should NOT happen is the game ignore your inputs and just pull off whichever shot choice IT feels suits best.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Not once Tom, not never. I've had the odd mis-press like Calcio mentioned where my hand slipped and didn't register a quick movement but that's it. I always hold the direction even after I have applied the power. That's why my problem has always been, applying too much direction. And every single one of my video Highlights shows that. I'm too guilty of over-pressing/holding the direction. I do it all the time.
Click to expand...

Holding the direction after applying power is a bad thing? I have always done this too, never knew it had a detrimental effect.
 
xPJRx said:
Agree with both viewpoints here:

Jimmy is right in alot of aspects, the direction Gerrard is facing when he opens up the goal is diagonally straight towards the corner that the shot actually went in, so naturally the shot makes perfect sense to go where it did.
The fact that you wanted a low drive into the opposite bottom corner ccshopland is difficult, as Jimmy said, gerrard would have had to wrap his whole foot around the side of the ball to get that direction on it, not only that hisupper body would have been in direct opposition to the shot he was trying to pull off, which would have led to greater inaccuracy.
The best way for gerrard to have hit that bottom right corner would have been to strike up and through the left hand side of the ball, would have required great technique, which gerrard arguably has.

BUT ... I agree, the fact that you wanted to pull off a shot that wasnt the most natural or feasible of shot choices shouldnt have resulted in the game deciding that instead you would stick it where it made most sense, what should have happened is either a poorly executed shot, a shot screwed wildly wide where you had to over compensate the direction, or stats allowing, even seen the player fall on his ass attempting the shot, what should NOT happen is the game ignore your inputs and just pull off whichever shot choice IT feels suits best.
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Yep, I totally agree.

The reason I never see this happening is simply because it's not something I would attempt. On the other hand, if I'd attempted it, I would like to see the player fall flat on his arse as he gets tangled with his right foot coming over this left. That would be awesome. :)
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
You just over-cook it Tom, or at least I do. The amount of my shots that just fizz agonisingly wide of the far stick is unbelievable.
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Exactly that. last night i had a similar situation, my CF dribbled past a defender, where i thought id over-run the ball but a quick tap iof R2 saw my CF stick out a toe and nudge it past the defenders outstretched leg, this left me facing the keeper but at an acute angle, so i would be striking across my body, it would have been easier to aim for the near post b ut i aimed far post so that any save or rebound would be more likely to bounce out into open play.
I intentionally hold down (to shoot right) and held it whilst powering, i didnt let go of the stick as id powered as i usually do and the shot screwed about 3 foot wide of the far post.

Looked great in real time apart from that fact i missed but everything was contextually correct andmy over-aiming had the same effect as wrapping my foot around the ball too much = too much direction.
 
Thinking about it that happened to me a lot in PES5. I dont get many shots off at the moment though so I'm not seeing it. I will try it out though.

Just how sensitive is the shooting then? The last PES is spent any real time on was PES5 and that had a very simplistic shooting system. I have carried over my shooting habits from that game where I always shot to the corners. I always felt that you would either hit the corner of the goal or the keeper in that game, no inbetween unless the angle dictated so. But maybe always trying to hit the posts is causing my technically deficient players to fluff the shot. Should I try putting it in a area that will allow my players to hit the ball cleanly instead of always trying to beat the keeper?
 
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ccshopland said:
Jim, I can't explain it any other way lol!??

When Gerrard receive the ball and comes inside in one movement, it's at this point that he opens the entire goal up. He had everything in his favour almost, a pass from left infield in which he sweeps the ball across him to give the possibility of firing a shot. Now, I'm not going to argue about the resultant accuracy from here, I would argue that the defender was really close (which could have been a factor), and that the ball was close to his feet (another factor). But having whisked the ball inside there are a number of outcomes that I would see IRL -

Either,

1) A top left rocket where it went, which have needed him to wrap his foot around the ball because he is facing the corner flag right
2) A smashing drive because he has come inside and his body force is going towards the right hand post
3) An R2 placement curling drive/shot

Now I probably would have scored with the R2 placement shot, but I didn't want to execute that...I wanted a low powerful normal drive.

The point I am making is that I wouldn't have cared if it was a rocket, if it was tame, if the player fell over on his arse because 'the technique was all wrong'...honestly I wouldn't have given a shit.

BUT, the only thing I don't want to happen if my input on the controller is for the ball to go to the right (the keepers left) is for the ball to end up where it did?!?

Await your response :)
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In this case, I'd blame animations, not the shooting system itself. Look at the position of Gerrard's left leg just before he struck the ball - it kinda blocked half of the angle he had before his left leg moved like it did, unfortunately. But, it's pretty hard to slow down or pause this short video at the proper moment, perhaps I just didn't see it correctly.

In case I saw it right, here's my speculation. I'm sure you set your aim BEFORE that left leg of his ended up where it did and it should have gone to the keepers right. Possible unfortunate and speculative scenario: Gerrard's movement animation wasn't interrupted instantly, he did that extra step with his left leg, it blocked the side you aimed for originally. What's can the game do right now, with R2 out of the equation:
a) obey your input blindly and make Gerrard shoot his own leg
b) ignore original input and direct the ball in only possible direction, keepers left

In this particular situation, both outcomes would be somewhat silly. Or somewhat acceptable.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Yep, I totally agree.

The reason I never see this happening is simply because it's not something I would attempt. On the other hand, if I'd attempted it, I would like to see the player fall flat on his arse as he gets tangled with his right foot coming over this left. That would be awesome. :)
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I'm not being funny here, I think this is a real breakthrough in this whole shooting debate.

It would certainly begin to explain why Jimmy doesn't experience the shooting issues other people do, it's because he is trying to play the game as realistically as possible and therefore goes for the shot that is more likely to come off each and every time.

This is a perfectly logical way to play the game though you could argue that some goals IRL are scored from impossible angles with outrageous body shapes so it's not really an exact science.

I think the fact the game decides for you at times because you have tried to shoot from an unnatural shape or situation is wrong and they should have just included an animation of the player shanking it or falling over or whatever instead. So long as the ball still went in the general direction you had chosen it would have made all the difference as far as immersion and realism is concerned.
 
pj_puttz said:
I think the fact the game decides for you at times because you have tried to shoot from an unnatural shape or situation is wrong and they should have just included an animation of the player shanking it or falling over or whatever instead. So long as the ball still went in the general direction you had chosen it would have made all the difference as far as immersion and realism is concerned.
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Yup, but unfortunately, there aren't any
 
I'm not going to leave this lie though peeps :)

I'm sure 100% that what I intended to do whilst also taking player position and body movement into the equation, should have happened.

So lets be clear -

The execution -

I wanted a drive of some kind to go in the bottom right hand corner (the keepers left side)

Picture one -

https://picasaweb.google.com/109638483749131668724/PESStuff#5712338286828354498
Left winger has it, about to keep the move going

https://picasaweb.google.com/109638483749131668724/PESStuff#5712338311351071554
With his left foot he will roll the ball across him, into the path of his right foot

https://picasaweb.google.com/109638483749131668724/PESStuff#5712338313915777218
It's now on the right side

https://picasaweb.google.com/109638483749131668724/PESStuff#5712338395740107858
THE MONEY SHOT -

The ball is perfectly situated and the left leg is planted. His body is facing the corner flag. As he forces his leg back for the shot THE OPTIMUM PLACE FOR THIS TO GO IS A LOW HARD DRIVE towards the RIGHT HAND POST!

His body position is facing the corner flag, all his momentum will therefore be going through the ball as his hips swivel for the low drive bottom right.

FROM THIS CLIP - I would argue that the hardest shot to execute would be where it went. In fact, I'd go one step further and argue that it is practically impossible for the ball to end up where it does

A) Because the CPU defender is blocking the route to the keepers right
B) The ball is slightly too far behind the planted leg, but perfect for a low drive. From this pic alone the optimum hit is the low hard drive to the right hand post lol, it couldn't be any more optimum?!?!?

Have a look at this example - this is R2 placement, but the movement is almost identical in that the player comes inside to open the goal up. The result, a controlled finish.

http://youtu.be/ZO2iMZvoPG0

But this is on the PC version, and I could have easily hit a rifle shot into the corner....

The bottom line is, the shot, on the PS3 version, should have gone driven into the corner bottom right. There was nothing, from the pictorial evidence, that suggests it couldn't go there!

I'll await your views....
 
ccshopland said:
I'm not going to leave this lie though peeps :)

I'm sure 100% that what I intended to do whilst also taking player position and body movement into the equation, should have happened.

So lets be clear -

The execution -

I wanted a drive of some kind to go in the bottom right hand corner (the keepers left side)

Picture one -

https://picasaweb.google.com/109638483749131668724/PESStuff#5712338286828354498
Left winger has it, about to keep the move going

https://picasaweb.google.com/109638483749131668724/PESStuff#5712338311351071554
With his left foot he will roll the ball across him, into the path of his right foot

https://picasaweb.google.com/109638483749131668724/PESStuff#5712338313915777218
It's now on the right side

https://picasaweb.google.com/109638483749131668724/PESStuff#5712338395740107858
THE MONEY SHOT -

The ball is perfectly situated and the left leg is planted. His body is facing the corner flag. As he forces his leg back for the shot THE OPTIMUM PLACE FOR THIS TO GO IS A LOW HARD DRIVE towards the RIGHT HAND POST!

His body position is facing the corner flag, all his momentum will therefore be going through the ball as his hips swivel for the low drive bottom right.

FROM THIS CLIP - I would argue that the hardest shot to execute would be where it went. In fact, I'd go one step further and argue that it is practically impossible for the ball to end up where it does

A) Because the CPU defender is blocking the route to the keepers right
B) The ball is slightly too far behind the planted leg, but perfect for a low drive. From this pic alone the optimum hit is the low hard drive to the right hand post lol, it couldn't be any more optimum?!?!?

Have a look at this example - this is R2 placement, but the movement is almost identical in that the player comes inside to open the goal up. The result, a controlled finish.

http://youtu.be/ZO2iMZvoPG0

But this is on the PC version, and I could have easily hit a rifle shot into the corner....

The bottom line is, the shot, on the PS3 version, should have gone driven into the corner bottom right. There was nothing, from the pictorial evidence, that suggests it couldn't go there!

I'll await your views....
Click to expand...

I have nothing else to say, that Moneyshot photo only rubberstamps what I've already said.

The R2 finish was beautiful though, and into the perfect corner for your stance. How that relates though to attempting an R2 into the left corner baffles me. :CONFUSE:

Maybe you should go to the Training Ground and try that shot with R2 into the left corner.

Also, as PJ has quite rightfully said, it's what ever you personally like. Without the 'fall-on-your-arse' animation and fluffed attempt, we will never get what we all want I guess.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
I have nothing else to say, that Moneyshot photo only rubberstamps what I've already said.

The R2 finish was beautiful though, and into the perfect corner for your stance. How that relates though to attempting an R2 into the left corner baffles me. :CONFUSE:

Maybe you should go to the Training Ground and try that shot with R2 into the left corner.
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What R2 into the left corner?!? Never attempted that... The point is Jim, PS clip, shot should have gone right, not left.

That's me finished on the matter. It happens on a modded PC version, just not on the PS3...sometimes.
 
Man, it's confusing ... I was referring to this video :)
YouTube - VIDEO0314

ccshopland said:
Here's a goal I scored yesterday or the day before, Superstar level, 15 minute game, -2 gamespeed, zero assists.

http://youtu.be/6HJ0NkH80Fw

At 0.06 seconds I pass the ball from the left wing into the feet of Gerrad and he roles his man to come inside. This opens up everything. There is no hidden depth to talk about, no mystical forces etc etc. The move is perfect to open up Gerrard's body to be able to hit this, right foot anywhere I want!
Click to expand...

Yet above photos seem to be taken from different match (blue/white jerseys on pics, all blue in the video)
 
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zlac said:
Man, it's confusing ... I was referring to this video :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HJ0NkH80Fw&feature=youtu.be
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Okay cool.

But again, in that video of mine, that was an R2 finish where I wanted to put it. Fine with that. In this video, it's an R2 finish http://youtu.be/ZO2iMZvoPG0, again no problems.

Just the one I showed on the PS3 should have been a low driven drive, bottom right. That was the input, and instead it goes roof of the net top left. IMO - wrong.

Here's some goals, drives, R2, to show variation. In all of them what happens is what I want to execute, all on the PC. But the PS3 version, for me, just has a mind of its own!

http://youtu.be/DIEHmVIYuoE
 
PC tweaks do include animation enhancements, right? Better linking, more fluidity, etc. Perhaps Gerrard wouldn't have taken that extra step and blocked himself on modded PC, who knows.
 
Sorry guys I feel like an idot think I posted the wrong goal first time round!

This is the goal I was talking about

http://youtu.be/iAvm3dBbwe4

Ball goes top left, and I meant bottom right drive!
My copying and pasting is all to hell - perhaps this is where people were confused!
 
ccshopland said:
Sorry guys I feel like an idot think I posted the wrong goal first time round!

This is the goal I was talking about

http://youtu.be/iAvm3dBbwe4

Ball goes top left, and I meant bottom right drive!
My copying and pasting is all to hell - perhaps this is where people were confused!
Click to expand...

My god that is a different video, and the player is more straight-on facing for the most part, with a more central position. I have no idea why the ball would be go there, my only issue with the low drive, even in the video, is that the ball isnt out of your feet for the low drive.

That looks like an R2 finish though. Unless the CPU has done an 'auto' R2 animation for you because the player stats are so high.

It's all horribly assisted passing though bud, it makes the game look/feel 100mph.

Zero Passing Assistance is a different game altogether, and across so many levels that it bleeds over to.
 
zlac said:
Ha haaa :) So you're actually Ok with the shot outcome on that misposted video?
Click to expand...

Sorry guys...

Yes the misposted one should have happened! I think that was Henderson! Ball played inside and a lovely R2 finish in the top right hand corner as the player looks at the goal!

THIS IS THE ONE I HAVE THE PROBLEM WITH - Jimmy get back in here and analyse this lol )

This one

http://youtu.be/iAvm3dBbwe4

And here are the pictures to show the move more closely -

Picture one -

https://picasaweb.google.com/1096384...38286828354498
Left winger has it, about to keep the move going

https://picasaweb.google.com/1096384...38311351071554
With his left foot he will roll the ball across him, into the path of his right foot

https://picasaweb.google.com/1096384...38313915777218
It's now on the right side

https://picasaweb.google.com/1096384...38395740107858
THE MONEY SHOT -

The ball is perfectly situated and the left leg is planted. His body is facing the corner flag. As he forces his leg back for the shot THE OPTIMUM PLACE FOR THIS TO GO IS A LOW HARD DRIVE towards the RIGHT HAND POST!

Input on the controller was to shot, low hard drive bottom right. Everything dictates that it should go there including the controller input and body position.

AND YET..

It careers top left hand corner as the player looks at the goal (the keepers right)

DISCUSS!
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
My god that is a different video, and the player is more straight-on facing for the most part, with a more central position. I have no idea why the ball would be go there, my only issue with the low drive, even in the video, is that the ball isnt out of your feet for the low drive.

That looks like an R2 finish though. Unless the CPU has done an 'auto' R2 animation for you because the player stats are so high.

It's all horribly assisted passing though bud, it makes the game look/feel 100mph.

Zero Passing Assistance is a different game altogether, and across so many levels that it bleeds over to.
Click to expand...

Jim, believe or not, it's zero assistance! I've played nothing but zero for the past two weeks on both console and PC. And again, believe it or not, but the gamespeed is -2! I think it just looks faster on clip for some reason.
 
I have no idea, that has never happened to me before, genuinely. The only slight factor that could come into the equation is the pressuring defender, but still, there is too much accuracy in the shot for that. It would be very extreme to suggest his balance was compromised in this way, and for him still to be so clean with the strike.
 
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ccshopland said:
Sorry guys I feel like an idot think I posted the wrong goal first time round!

This is the goal I was talking about

http://youtu.be/iAvm3dBbwe4

Ball goes top left, and I meant bottom right drive!
My copying and pasting is all to hell - perhaps this is where people were confused!
Click to expand...

Yep these type of goals happen all to often and while it's a good goal you dont feel happy about scoring it as the CPU takes full control and has no reflection on the input on the pad.
 
Love shooting, passing, dribbling etc but fuck me headers are frustrating, with the manual cross not in the game its even harder to get the sort of header I want felt pes 11 was better in this regard.
 
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