The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[romagnoli]

The whole point was that it would be easier for me to collect what needs to be fixed and fed back to Konami.

Unfortunately, it went the wrong way in here.

I think the name, while obviously tongue in cheek in the way you meant it and in the context of this site as we know it, kind of backfired. Some forums set up such threads deliberately, and this tends to be what they're for.

 

[pj_puttz]

You wouldnt of lasted 1

 

[lancers]

My hands don't work as well as they did when I was the age of most of the guys that post here.

I prefer EA's offering because they have a working at least for me sprint button. The animations are far superior as well as the graphics. Most of the teams with real players are in the game. The camera is infinitely changeable. Shooting feels great and this year the game is very customizeable.

PES is far too assisted so far as passing goes. The game still feels on rails after all these years. Now maybe someone who can use the controls better than me can get around some of the things I mentioned but for me the bottom line is the game is kinda ugly for a 2012 game. I hope they can improve upon this in the next game.

 

[Jamezinho]

Especially when I'm being accused of basically being a moron who doesn't understand the game of PES the way others do.

I see it that way too. Having been a football fan for over twenty years, following my local team, playing in my spare time when I was younger, and playing football games all that time too, one thing is for sure.....I "get" football.

I find some of the self-righteous proclamations on here insulting, untrue and, ultimately, disappointing. You know who you are and should be ashamed.

But, in the end, I respect everyone's opinions on here and their right to make them.

 

[Lami]

Actually wait. I'm renaming this thread and throwing most of the repetitive negativity in here. Hopefully people enjoying PES 2012 can be at peace in that thread.

I think the name, while obviously tongue in cheek in the way you meant it and in the context of this site as we know it, kind of backfired. Some forums set up such threads deliberately, and this tends to be what they're for.

Yep. I admit it went wrong. At first I just wanted 2 separate threads so I can take advantage of all the negativity, the constructive ones. And at the same time I wanted the people who enjoyed it to not be put off the negativity.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Yep. I admit it went wrong. At first I just wanted 2 separate threads so I can take advantage of all the negativity, the constructive ones. And at the same time I wanted the people who enjoyed it to not be put off the negativity.

To be fair the first 40 or so pages were pretty constructive, but how long can you go on being constructive? Surly cant expect it until PES 2013...40 pages is actually pretty dam good for a forum.

 

[Jamezinho]

Yep. I admit it went wrong. At first I just wanted 2 separate threads so I can take advantage of all the negativity, the constructive ones. And at the same time I wanted the people who enjoyed it to not be put off the negativity.

Maybe a specific feedback thread would be a better idea?

Have some ground rules such as no discussion, just a thread to post feedback and ideas. Have some structure to it so that members have to answer specific questions on different aspects of the game and how they can be improved.

 

[Lami]

Maybe a specific feedback thread would be a better idea?

Have some ground rules such as no discussion, just a thread to post feedback and ideas. Have some structure to it so that members have to answer specific questions on different aspects of the game and how they can be improved.

I wanted more than just a thread tbh. I was thinking of a feedback forum, with threads for all aspects. But then I went off into the wilderness for months and just came back. I don't know if this can be done now.

 

[Jamezinho]

I wanted more than just a thread tbh. I was thinking of a feedback forum, with threads for all aspects. But then I went off into the wilderness for months and just came back. I don't know if this can be done now.

Great idea though. Keep everything organised and easy to follow, just in case someone from Konami ever pays attention.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I see it that way too. Having been a football fan for over twenty years, following my local team, playing in my spare time when I was younger, and playing football games all that time too, one thing is for sure.....I "get" football.

I find some of the self-righteous proclamations on here insulting, untrue and, ultimately, disappointing. You know who you are and should be ashamed.

But, in the end, I respect everyone's opinions on here and their right to make them.

I'm anything but ashamed James. Hey look, this is how it is, you have your views and I have mine. I've not once attacked your opinion, and like-wise you haven't mine. Until now.

As for Puttz, he attacked me right from the off when I took time to try and explain some of the subtle techniques now required. This isn't old gen PES, times have moved on a million miles since then. Sometimes, we need to re-invent ourselves, as what once worked, now no longer does.

For the record, I personally find your accusations of PES being a 'mess' as highly inaccurate. You may not like the path Konami have taken, and I respect that, but by no means is the game a mess. In fact, I've never played a better replication of football in all my life. This game, in my opinion, is light years ahead of PES 2011 and all prior.

After a hell of a lot of frustrations, and re-learning, I've found a truly amazing experience. I only have two minor niggles with PES 12, which I'll come back to. Apart from that, the game plays an amazing game of football on my own preferred settings, which I firmly believe was how the game was designed to be played. The addition of Assisted controls, for me, was something that was applied to appease the more casual crowd. It's a step back in my opinion.

I hear things like shooting is broke ? That's funny, because mine isn't. In fact, I've never been able to execute as many differing techniques as I can now. The same goes for passing. I hear that the CPU 'camps out'. Sure the CPU is much better organised than 1.00 or any of the demo's. But that is a positive for me, that's how football is. Scoring and creating goals should be difficult, nothing should be easy. The satisfaction that is gained from scoring is exactly how it should be in my opinion. A goal should really mean something, and now it does. Breaking down defences has never been as hard as this since PES 5, another title that was blasted for being too hard after initial release.

As an example, my ML is playing out at present, just like I would hope it would. With Middlesbrough it's a struggle, this is my 4th season, and I'm constantly fighting Form, a lack of funds, and a small squad of players. When I have my best 11 out, I'm strong. If I'm missing one or two of my main players, it's a slog. Tactics and strategies are required to be mixed up to get results. This is my 4th season in Division 2, which is unheard of, but I wouldnt have it any other way.

The techniques that I'm having to apply to get results are all major fundamentals of football, which are rewarded as they should be. I'm not playing this PES like I've played any of the others, I play this completely differently. I'm forced to, but I'm happy to, because the way I'm having to play sits perfectly with how I believe real football is played. And for that reason alone, I'm in pure heaven. There are no cheap glitches, go-to moves, nothing. You earn everything.

As Lami suggested the other day, I truly don't believe you have given this game as much time as required. In fact, I don't believe your anywhere close. In saying that, I totally understand the frustrations, it's a very hard game to even begin to master. I had all the patience in the world with this PES, and finally, 1.03 cracked it. I appreciate your favourite genre isn't football games, I'd suggest it's racing games or FPS. With that said, maybe this years PES isn't for you at all. For me, the deepest games, are the ones that require the most time to appreciate, understand, then attempt to master.

What I don't agree with though, because it's impossible for me to do that, is admit the game is a mess. For me, it's the best offline experience I have had in my life, and for so many reasons I observe with every game I play.

I'm not arguing with you James, I'm just stating my point. I agree and I accept that I've lowered myself with Puttz, but my points and arguments are in no way compromised. I don't believe you can pass final judgement on a game without fully understanding the full picture. I think that's harsh on what I know Konami have achieved so well.

I asked the question with regards this years new shooting techniques ? Nobody knew the answer. Yet, the same people claim the shooting is broken ? Do you see where I'm coming from with that ? Just saying.

 

[Northzzz]

There's a fine line between discussing something with insight even if two people disagree with one another's views and arguing over something needlessly. The past couple of pages completely fall in the second category.

 

[P34SEMM]

After swapping PES for Fifa and vice versa about 8 times each. I stuck with Fifa12 for the last two months. Pains me to say it but I cant ever see Konami reaching the level they need to get level with EA let alone beat it.

Where FIFA comes alive is online play. Fantastic. Never had server issues and 9/10 players just want a decent game of football. You get the Barc-whores but I love to take them on.

I just cant see Konami ever coming back to challenge Fifa (in Europe anyway) and even if they did make a great game next year who would give them another chance after the rubbish they have given us since PES08?

Like a mug Ill try PES13 but I still feel I will end up with FIFA13 and thats coming from a PES fan way back in the day since it was ISS on the SNES.

 

[ccshopland]

On a side note peeps, those with a PC should really try Yair's latest 2.01 effort...hmm hmm, my FIFA couple of days has come to an end, back to PES for a moment! Edited of course!

 

[Northzzz]

On a side note peeps, those with a PC should really try Yair's latest 2.01 effort...hmm hmm, my FIFA couple of days has come to an end, back to PES for a moment! Edited of course!

To be honest i'm an advocater of mods myself but i also tend to think of them as glossing over the problems. I don't use that mod in particular so i cannot comment on it directly but from my experience the only thing that improves drammatically are the physics, the animations and the less cheated cpu feel.

Whilst they are great changes and really do aid the gameplay there are still a lot of issues with the game inherently that mods are not able to change. I won't get into detail too much about them but a huge overwhelming issue for myself is still the on-rails scripted feel of the game. Pushing and pulling my players and leaving me feeling a lack of control that i cannot overlook. Until Konami, not mods, are able to overcome that feeling, and how they will i have no idea as it's at the very core of the game, i still believe that for all their good works mods do only gloss over certain problems with the game. They do make it more enjoyable though, no doubt about it and i'd advise anybody with the PC version to use them. It leaves me with a feeling of complete disrespect for Konami when i see how much more improved the physics can be via mod changes. It's as if they cannot even identify the problems because they are evidently not hard to change (unlike the core issue i mentioned). That's what also leaves me jaded and with the feeling that in certain ways Konami do not know how to make things 'better' so to speak.

 

[Jamezinho]

If my planned gaming PC build goes ahead then I'll definitely be playing PES on PC in future. I think, these days, the PC is the home of a game like PES which has such an active modding community.

 

[ftgpete]

Shooting is one of the least problems I have with this game, compared to the super human AI, your teams AI being terrible when they attack, Master League being a joke, online being speed merchant abuse galore etc. Shooting is the last thing on my negatives, still think its bad though.

 

[Shikashi]

On a side note peeps, those with a PC should really try Yair's latest 2.01 effort...hmm hmm, my FIFA couple of days has come to an end, back to PES for a moment! Edited of course!

I'd rather not. I've already uninstalled the game twice, both times for the same reasons. The gameplay is fundamentally broken, I don't feel any joy passing the ball around, or shooting, or crossing, or using the skill system. No patches or option files are going to change that. All I feel is frustration which results in trashing the game and Konami's outdated technology.

I'm playing and it doesn't even remotely resemble actual football, from a visual standpoint. The animation is so poor that I can't turn off the fact that this looks like an old videogame.
It's not even up to par with PS2 PES, PES used to look very realistic. FIFA didn't even resemble anything close to actual football until 2005, when they completely overhauled the animation system. And even then, PES always moved, behaved and looked better.

From a gameplay standpoint, it's the same deal. PES is not a simulation, but it's not an arcade game either. When I can't grasp how the passing system of a football game works by the 100th time I try it, there's no point in playing it.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Everyone is allowed their opinion on the game. I have a feeling though that some people get confused between opinion and sweeping generalisations.

If you say I don't like PES 2012 because of x, y and z, that's fair enough. And some of them are legitimate complaints. But if you say "this is broken" or this doesn't work, that's not opinion really and other people should be allowed to "discuss" why they think you're right or wrong based on their own experience with the game.

Now some people have made video's with their complaints and some others have gone to great lengths to describe what it is they don't like. Fantastic! This is the stuff Konami needs to see and read.

By the same token, some of us go to lengths to explain why we feel some of the things people generalise about are not broken or why we think they are they way they are. To which some people brush off with rabid claims of fanboyism or being arrogant, and without backing up any of their so called complaints with rationale.

If you want to vent, fair enough - but if you make a statement of fact, not opinion, then don't complain if someone wants to debate it...without getting personal.

 

[Shikashi]

Everyone is allowed their opinion on the game. I have a feeling though that some people get confused between opinion and sweeping generalisations.

If you say I don't like PES 2012 because of x, y and z, that's fair enough. And some of them are legitimate complaints. But if you say "this is broken" or this doesn't work, that's not opinion really and other people should be allowed to "discuss" why they think you're right or wrong based on their own experience with the game.

Now some people have made video's with their complaints and some others have gone to great lengths to describe what it is they don't like. Fantastic! This is the stuff Konami needs to see and read.

By the same token, some of us go to lengths to explain why we feel some of the things people generalise about are not broken or why we think they are they way they are. To which some people brush off with rabid claims of fanboyism or being arrogant, and without backing up any of their so called complaints with rationale.

If you want to vent, fair enough - but if you make a statement of fact, not opinion, then don't complain if someone wants to debate it...without getting personal.

Is that aimed at me? I can't tell without being quoted.
If it is though, I did explain why I think it's fundamentally broken. Passing is fundamental in a football game, if the passing system doesn't work properly, the game is fundamentally broken.

 

[stephen]

Tell you what I would like to know is how the hell do you shoot in this game. Because at the moment it feels wrong, or am I doing something wrong. How do I add a bit of zip and dip!?

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Tell you what I would like to know is how the hell do you shoot in this game. Because at the moment it feels wrong, or am I doing something wrong. How do I add a bit of zip and dip!?

Have you checked out the tutorials by Konami? I posted them a good few weeks ago.

Edit: Here they are, Oddly Konami calls shooting "Goal Kicks"

http://www.konami-pes2012.com/eu/en/2011/12/pes-2012-tip-correct-alignment-for-goal-kicks/

http://www.konami-pes2012.com/eu/en/2011/12/pes-2012-tip-shot-power-as-an-influencing-factor/

http://www.konami-pes2012.com/eu/en/2011/12/pes-2012-tip-the-controlled-shot/

http://www.konami-pes2012.com/eu/en/2012/01/pes-2012-tip-long-shots/

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Shikasi - nope, not at you.

Try and be front on to the ball Stephen, either with a knock on or with a tap of the shoot button before you press shoot, and you should get enough backlift to generate power. Then hold down shoot longer than you normally do. Some players need a 3/4 filled up power bar or more to get a real good shot off but some players can get a nice shot off with less power bar filled. Also need less power if you can run onto the ball a little.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

...When I can't grasp how the passing system of a football game works by the 100th time I try it, there's no point in playing it.

I'm not having a go at you mate but in your last post you said passing is broken and from the earlier post I quoted you say that YOU can't grasp how the passing works.

You see what I'm saying here? When someone says it's broken, to me it means it shouldn't work for anyone, whereas you really mean there's something about it which is either inconsistent or hard to get your head around and it's making the game unplayable. Fair enough and no one can complain if that's your experience.

There are times when I find the pass can be assisted towards another player so they definitely can improve the freedom of passing to whichever player or direction you aim for. But I find this the exception, just like with the directional problem in shooting. Maybe 10% or less of the passes or shots go differently to my aim. But yeah, they should be 0% off target, ideally.

 

[Lami]

Last time,

Stop getting personal.

 

[lancers]

Shikasi - nope, not at you.

Try and be front on to the ball Stephen, either with a knock on or with a tap of the shoot button before you press shoot, and you should get enough backlift to generate power. Then hold down shoot longer than you normally do. Some players need a 3/4 filled up power bar or more to get a real good shot off but some players can get a nice shot off with less power bar filled. Also need less power if you can run onto the ball a little.

When you say knock on I think of the right stick a la Fifa. How do you do that in Pes?

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

When you say knock on I think of the right stick a la Fifa. How do you do that in Pes?

Yeah you can't do it with the stick like in FIFA. You can do it in PES a couple of different ways. Now my buttons are mapped like FIFA so you'll need to double check these but:

- if you receive the ball from a pass (or a loose ball) press the sprint button as the ball gets to you and choose a direction. The first touch will be towards that direction. Experiment though, because it could be a slight knock on of a metre or it could go 3 or 4 metres. I think it might depend on the player's explosive stat

- while standing, hold down sprint button and special control button (for me it's L2 and R2 but for most it would be R1 and R2) and choose a direction and there's a little speed burst

- while holding down the sprint button you can press the special control button (R2 for default controls) and a direction and it does a knock on while you run

- also while holding down the sprint button, if you give it a double or triple tap or just keep tapping it, you will also get a longer knock on

- but when you don't have lots of space to knock the ball into, as you run towards goal, just give the sprint button a tap so the ball goes into your stride, rather than under your feet and power up a fair bit. This method is the one you'd generally be able to use since the space isn't always going to be available to do a "knock on" as such.

I'm going from the top of my head with these moves but try them out and check the in game command menu if I've mis-quoted something.

 

[lancers]

Thanks.

 

[Shikashi]

I'm not having a go at you mate but in your last post you said passing is broken and from the earlier post I quoted you say that YOU can't grasp how the passing works.

You see what I'm saying here? When someone says it's broken, to me it means it shouldn't work for anyone, whereas you really mean there's something about it which is either inconsistent or hard to get your head around and it's making the game unplayable. Fair enough and no one can complain if that's your experience.

There are times when I find the pass can be assisted towards another player so they definitely can improve the freedom of passing to whichever player or direction you aim for. But I find this the exception, just like with the directional problem in shooting. Maybe 10% or less of the passes or shots go differently to my aim. But yeah, they should be 0% off target, ideally.

I can see where you're coming from, but I think it's a widespread problem, plenty of people have issues with the passing and the assistance settings. This thread is evidence of that.
There's 4 or 5 people that seem to enjoy the passing system, everyone else here and most other forums I frequent have issues with the passing. Surely it can't be that we are all completely clueless or have terrible skill. Some of the folks have been playing PES for 10 years. I myself have played since ISS Pro '98, on Professional and higher since PES 3, so I don't think of myself as a terrible PES player. I was actually fairly good just a few years ago, beating the CPU on Top Player with no major problems. I can beat friends of mine, who play PES 2011 on a daily-basis, without playing the game myself for more than 2 weeks, or having touched it in months. And this isn't bragging, just making a point.

The comment I made about not being able to grasp how it works was jestful and ironic. I'm not exactly new to PES. I blame the game for the passing system not working, the outdated code, the less than stellar ball physics, the power bar, the 6 different assistance settings which make things more confusing than they should be. I don't blame myself.
Not because I'm arrogant either, but because I know that it's not lack of skill and the issues are widespread.

I never had issues with any passing system in a football game until PES 2011. I realized how restrictive the passing system was from PES 2008 up, but only in 2011 did I start feeling hindered because of it.

Surely, this amount of negative feedback has to be related to coding issues and outdated tech rather than the community not being able to properly grasp how the system works.
Maybe it doesn't work.

Using FIFA as an example, I never feel hindered playing it. When I miss a pass, I immediately think it's my fault and not poor gameplay mechanics. Either I messed the direction, or I pressed the button for too long. And there's 3 clearly defined settings for passing, at least one is bound to please you.
I actually avoid passing the ball in PES 2012 as much as possible, especially in attack, because I already know that something is going to go wrong and the cheating CPU will counter-attack and score. I never do this in FIFA, I actually enjoy passing the ball around in my opponent's midfield.
More often than not do I find myself counter-attacking in PES 2012, in a 2x3 situation and the pass goes where it's not supposed to go. Through balls have too much power, standard passes have extremely sensitive direction and power inputs. How is that supposed to work? Your whole game is more arcade than simulation, your animation system is too archaic to look and behave realistically, but the passing system is more complex than the competition is in "manual" setting? That doesn't make any sense. And the game agrees with me, as far as I can tell.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Fair enough. Thanks for the comments.

FIFA works well offline against the AI or online but for some reason, whenever I play local multiplayer on FIFA, I find the passing quite frustrating. Most of it works well but every now and then I'll get a pass go way off from where I aimed. Like it overshoots a 3 metre pass by 10 metres and straight to an opponent. not sure why but it happens lol

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Thanks.

No probs - hopefully you can master them because in the right context they can really help.