The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[Suuuuupertalk]

Do you know what, it really, really pains me, but I have a feeling that you are right LTFC?!?

I have played PES to death now, tried everything from the patches to this and that, everything. Whilst I can get something out of the game, the game has to be played in a certain way for 'things' not to just break. I have been trying my best to slow the game down, but adjusting gamespeed alone does just that, adjusts the whole speed of the game to where it becomes unresponsive. I have tried the gameplay tweaks with Jenkey and Yair is doing a fantastic job, but all they can do is iron out the cracks, they cannot fill the cracks.

I have been a staunch PES supporter, and although I played both game last year I absolutely smashed PES 2011 warts and all. I played FIFA 11, and it was good, but there were glaring issues like the repetitive CPU headed goals and the pressure abuse.

I have played PES 2012 far more than FIFA this year, but this last week I have really sat down and tried to get the best out of FIFA and gave myself a target of 20 games, win, lose or draw, scripts, momentum and all for the first time just out of frustration really. And do you know what, I may not be turning back to PES!

My main issues with FIFA this year was the lack of 'off the cuff' pressure which PES can replicate brilliantly. By this, I mean that I don't simply want to go from A to B to C via a series of diagonal passes up the opponents half with my opposition just mirroring me all the time. This was a major gripe with FIFA and something that couldn't be fixed with the sliders alone. Eventually I worked my way through professional, to world class, and now, finally, I am playing at Legendary level.

THIS ADDS TO THE GAMEPLAY IMMEASURABLY - now the CPU, together with the adjustment of the marking stat to make games tighter sees the CPU mirror me when necessary but also is more aggressive to any 50/50 passes and generally tried to mix the game up a little.

I had a major, major moment of enlightenment/clarification yesterday, just as I had one with PES about a month or so ago, where suddenly the game became crystal clear, and I knew what I had to do to a) win b)to get the most out of the game.

I was a staunch, staunch, PES realism advocate. I am not ashamed to change my opinion or alter it in any way; I want the best football experience so although my loyalty is with PES, I feel I have to give all games equal chance to impress. I have gotten everything I possibly can out of PES, I play on Superstar level, zero assists, I have found my formation, playing style, and know how the game works, Only now am I delving into the detail of FIFA to try and get to grips with it.

Don't get me wrong here guys, I still like PES, but there are still 'broken' aspects which is stopping it from being a killer for me.

So here's where my view starts I guess -

LTFC is right; I didn't see it first or didn't have the right settings or playing mentality. I was trying to play FIFA like PES, even though I play PES like PES. In my 'moment of clarity' yesterday I now have a far greater understanding of the game, how moves are constructed, how the opposition plays, how I am supposed to defend, and where I have been going wrong for months.

FIFA can easily be dismissed as the cheap for thrills product this year, but that would be to under-estimate the title. After prolonged use of both, ans then comparing and contrasting, for the first time this year, I am starting to feel a little embarrassed about the two, and it's not just an animations/pretty shiny issue either, it's more core fundamental than that. At first, the active AI I thought was the saviour of PES, but the more I look at it, I think this is where the main problems surface. Players are now just too active. If I watch or even play a game of PES, now all I see and feel is players, to a man, running left, right and centre, never stopping, never taking a breather. The result, is a very quick game which is supposed to be played very quickly. I get joy out of playing on professional far more than on Superstar for example, it's just that the game becomes too easy. On Superstar, the game needs to be played at a frantic high tempo pace, just to break defences down.

FIFA is more considered, with slider changes albeit. I'm thinking of both titles now as PES being the highlights reel of Match of the Day, with constant end to end counter attacks, and FIFA as being the actual game played out in it's entirety. I play on 10 minute halves on FIFA because for me, this is where I have time to actually play the game and build something, any time less, and I feel rushed and the whole gameplay comes crumbling down; FIFA definitely isn't get from A to B as quickly as possible type of game... I have now learned this.

The animations are obviously top notch, the passing and physics are excellent, the shooting (after prolonged getting to grips) is excellent. Player interaction is very good, and looking at both games again, is probably about the right mix of player movement (if you increase player runs to around 70).

The TWO areas which is why I have kind of given up on PES for the moment, is the feeling of rails which is now undeniable, and just the way the players behave with the ball and how they generally receive it and turn with it. PES is just way, way too quick in this department, with players seemingly having the flexibility and quickness of reflex that Yoda would be proud of. When players in FIFA receive the ball, they control it, have to adjust body position, and the whole process takes a second or two which is what it would be like for a human. It's this slowing down of the game in micro-capsules that stops the game from becoming an arcade end to end fest. This and the fact that players have acceleration. Carroll for example on PES is like the road runner, where on FIFA he is slow to get off the mark, but does retain the ball well etc.

I also want to address issues I have had big concerns about in FIFA and kind of put them to bed. I have been a big, big momentum/cheating/45/90 minute goal problem man. BUT, I will say, as I have become more proficient at FIFA, these types of things are becoming rarer and rarer as I am getting better. Kind of like the first time I thought how do you stop these dribblers in PES before I mastered the jockey hold principle.

I do think it's right that the game opens up in the late stages of a game, especially if one team is winning/losing, this is human nature. Like LTFC said, I had a game v Arsenal yesterday where I had the better of the first half, they had much the better of the second. I scored an early goal, but ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE GAME, they were the better team on the ball, and I could sense it. They kept possession like Arsenal would, dominating me in large spells, and I was left pretty much for the entire second half to rely on sparse counters. I just about held off for a 1-0 win at Highbury, but I left that game feeling a rush, something I hadn't experienced for ages; the feeling of being dominated by a technically better team. The possession stats said 53-47 to Arsenal, but quite honestly I expected and felt, like it was like 60% to Arsenal, they were that good. But I matched them near enough defensively, set out my stall, and dropped players behind the ball every Arsenal attack, and they just couldn't find that one clear chance.

PES is beginning to play out exactly the same; I near enough always have anything from between 55% to 62% possession, and the CPU seems absolutely dead keen on surrendering possession. On the higher levels, they attack very, very directly. Mostly, the CPU will rely on counter attacks, as all your active AI players steam roller forwards and beyond the ball leaving you exposed to a two on two at the back.

BIG AREAS OF CONCERN RE-FIFA -

The 45/90 minute goals can be countered but it is a mental thing, and you have to bring players behind the ball from midfield to counter ANY CPU cheating/moving your players during this period - this is a big NO-NO from EA, take it OUT NOW for next year.

Variation in play - there needs to be varied aerial threat. Even Arsenal can spring the odd surprise and go long sometimes; but going long shouldn't be a pre-requisite for cheating to get one on one, it should be seen as a variant on an attack that will bring the game to more life with varied bounces and bobbles after the aerial contest, something that PES does so well, having the ball be an actual entity that can literally bounce and bobble anywhere.

Momentum - Jury is still out on this for me. I was a MASSIVE FIFA is cheating me, momentum man. But I do see the logic also of the other argument, that as a team losing you are going to attack more and try more risks than if you weren't. I also think that as my own defensive play becomes much better and I am starting to draw support from the midfield more, these CPU glitch one on ones are becoming less frequent, but you still have to watch your player like a hawk. I don't know if it's a built in thing that says 'right once player A goes 1-0 up then game=skitz', but I do feel little nuances in the gameplay. For example, if I string together a series of moves that break down, the CPU seem to grow 'stronger' and there feels like a force whereby the CPU team move up the pitch and start cramping me for room, it is at this time where passes have to be precise.

There are also phases of the game where you have to accept that you are going to be second best, and you just have to sit in and defend. I now know when to press and when to drop back.

I never use the contain button; for me this is the most useless piece of shit ever. I just manually control my players all the time.

So anyway that's it.

This isn't designed to be a 'I hate PES' rant, I see the beauty with both games now, that's all I am saying. PES needs to tighten up and become more sim-like in the way the players structure themselves on the pitch, get its act together with the presentation and stop the insane CPU cheating at the higher levels. FIFA needs to get a portion of that 'bottle of PES magic' which makes the game more alive somehow.

Whichever floats your boat, happy playing!

Good post, I agree with a lot of the points there about the differences between the two games and you give some good reasons why you think what you do

 

[Rantboy]

Everybody has a limit in terms of "forgiveness" for the PES series. To Lami and all the others who can actually enjoy themselves while playing PES 2012, I say good for you! I wish I could enjoy my Master League season, which is my favourite mode and I've been playing it on every version of WE/PES with no exception, since its inception in Winning Eleven 4.
But unfortunately to me, PES 2012, that's where I draw the line. Playing with Valeny, Castolo and Dodo is hard enough, I don't need to expose myself to moments of wrath (there has been many in the past) against this indomitable AI.

Everybody has a breaking point. Many friends of mine came across theirs, either completely abandoning WE/PES a at some point or making the switch to FIFA.
I have been forgiving and relatively easy to please through the years. Many jumped ship with that horrendous 2008 version full of frame rate issues, but I stuck with KONAMI even through that! I was happy to play a fun footie game with Master League and that was all I wanted from PES.

Now with 2012 I cannot do this, it's not gonna be good for my anger
And even if I lost my cool in the past, there was always something to go back to. But now this game is not enjoyable nor rewarding. I just don't see the point of single player on PES 2012.

As somebody pointed out, you can even understand how it works and what you need to do to beat the AI. But when I finally did that, I found myself resorting to unrealistic plays, I wasn't playing PES like PES anymore.

I used to have a real kick out of playing PES single player, but not anymore unfortunately. I'm done with this PES 2012 for good. It will take an overhaul in PES 2013 for them to see my 40 shillings again.

BTW, many people in this thread liked the Demos, saying "Demo 1 was good, Demo 2 was great", but I have to say: from the first moment I played the 1st Demo, the game felt wrong. I just could sense that it was wrong, broken and unbalanced. I was just hoping it was only the Demo (although unlikely) and they'd fix it. But they made it worse!

Having played FIFA 12, I have to admit it is far superior. I could never have imagined myself saying this, as I was admittedly a KONAMI "fan boy" before. But enough is enough.

FIFA will now be my main source of casual single player fun. I'll just pick a Championship league and have some fun with it.

But as I said before, this generation has so much better stuff being done, that I feel it's a waste for me to dedicate so much time as I did on a footie game as before and feel cheated/outraged.
Games I have been playing lately such as LA Noire, Modern Warfare 3 and Assassin's Creed are the real thing for this generation IMO.

 

[pj_puttz]

I am 100% right in virtually everything I say, to be fair.

I cant say I'm surprised to see you type something like that. Seems like I have you pretty much pegged.

I generally don't write that much nowadays because, whereas this site used to have a lot of other posters who would have something insightful to contribute off the back of a long post, nowadays the standard has dropped dramatically. Most of the posts and comments here just aren't interesting or revealing anymore, chiefly because most of the contributors don't have the capacity to do so on a regular basis (which is sad for those few who are still worth following but are drowned out by the new crowd).

Translation: I enjoyed this site more when people just agreed with everything I said and everyone loved PES. Now that people are questioning my opinions and voicing their discontent at the state of PES I have decided they are not my intellectual equals and therefore have nothing of any interest to say.

Incidentally, did you not want to direct that comment about wasting time with long articles at any of the above posters too? Or just at those who disagree with you?

A long article as part of a discussion or as a response to another poster is one thing, doing what Jimmy is proposing to do is quite another. If Jimmy said he was going to write a huge in depth essay in technical detail about why the game was crap I would still have said "get a life". Does that mean you were actually wrong in assuming I wouldn't? There goes your 100% accuracy rating.

That aside, Jimmy has shown in the past that people who disagree with him about the quality of PES actually make him angry. He has spectacularly thrown his toys out of the pram when discussing PES on this thread on a few occassions so if anyone should take a wee step back from PES and NOT bother writing large articles on why he thinks it's the best football game ever it's him.

What I said may have sounded harsh but it's actually pretty good advice for a guy like him.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

We are going to try and educate you little Puttz.

 

[zlac]

Careful, Jimmy

We doooon't neeeed nooooooo .... educaaaaaaation

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

He is a lost cause, but we will try and teach him something with this article. And what I want little Puttzy to do is, break down in depth, the reasons why technically, what I write isnt factual to real-life technique. That's what I'm dying to read.

 

[pj_puttz]

He is a lost cause, but we will try and teach him something with this article. And what I want little Puttzy to do is, break down in depth, the reasons why technically, what I write isnt factual to real-life technique. That's what I'm dying to read.

I think there are a few people that would love a good laugh at you attempting to prove how PES 2012 is "factual to real life technique". Whatever the hell that means.

I need "education" and I'm a "lost cause" because I think PES 2012 is crap and you dont? Dear oh dear. The name calling and baffling accusations of being a "troll" are not far away I fear.

All I have to do is read your article (painful as it will be but I'm sure I'll get through it without falling asleep too many times) then briefly tell you why I disagree with it and you'll be throwing the toys out of the pram all over again before going into another self imposed exile from this thread. Or in other words, a childish sulk.

Your article will confirm nothing but it probably will increase your well deserved reputation as a laughing stock on this thread. The simple reason being you cannot "prove" that someone's opinion regarding the quality of a game is wrong. The fact you cannot seem to grasp this says more about your need for education than it does my own.

So type away if it makes you feel better James but I stand by what I said earlier. You seriously need to get a life and stay away from PES for a while.

Writing long essays on the "factual to real life technique" of a football game in a tragic and ultimately futile attempt to convert people to your way of thinking is not normal behaviour for a man of your age. Are you really THAT desperate for validation of your opinion?

 

[Northzzz]

Yup, you're bang on with these comments. I don't care how much anyone claims PES recreates, say, fundamentals of body positioning when shooting, or any technical recreations of ball control etc. I don't care because beyond this the fundamentals of how real football is played out between two teams is totally wrong. Matches in PES2012 are one dimensional, they do play out the same no matter your opponent, be it Barcelona or Stoke, and this is where, for me, any pretentions of PES being a sim or replication of the game fall down quite spectacularly. The game utterly fails on all levels to replicate a CPU opponent that has any sense of variety or play as they would in real life. I don't expect miracles from a game but I do expect, in 2012, that Konami should by now be able to see a CPU Barcelona dominate me in terms of possession. Instead, I could play as Wigan and still have 60% of the play every time, with the only difference being how hard the CPU presses you with defenders and how devastating they are on the counter attack. Totally unrealistic, no matter what other aspects the game might get right.

FIFA12 on the other hand has taken giant strides this year and continues to astonish me how well the CPU opposition replicates CPU possession and periods of pressure in games that ebb and flow. I lost a game today at Arsenal where I took an early lead, got heavily pressured, then pegged back, before the game swung each way in periods of pressure before the final 20 minutes seeing Arsenal slowly wind up the pressure so I could barely get out of my half before buckling and conceding a winner late on.

Despite losing, I loved the match itself because it played out exactly how a tough trip to Arsenal would play out, with me narrowly failing to hold on to a slow start by Arsenal and the CPU ended up finishing on 57% of the ball over the 90 minutes. This, I never see in PES, ever. For me there's the core difference between the two, why I think FIFA12 is the more realistic. If I'd have played the same fixture in PES2012 I'd have dominated the ball, with the only difference between Arsensl and a lesser team being that Arsenal would pressure faster and stronger, and they'd have still sat back and caught me on the break a couple of times. It's old and boring.

I appreciate FIFA needs tightening up in certain areas such as ball control but overall its reputation this year is unjust and tempered by older versions of rhe game, from FIFA11 down, which were indeed horrible arcadey messes. This year EA have done a brilliant job and made so many key areas more realistic. The addition of sliders enables you to enhance those to get a game in my opinion far in excess of PES. Not for the way ball control etc is portrayed, like I said, but because the replication of a real match against real opponents is vastly more varied and realistic. If I go to the Nou Camp in FIFA12 I will brace myself and expect to manfully be chasing shadows for most of the match. The complete opposite is true of PES2012.

Just my two cents.

I said to myself about a month ago that PES is incredibly one-dimensional and shallow. I never bothered to post it on here because most people seem content to push around the old PES is deep hyperbole but what you're saying is correct and how i feel (minus the Fifa part as i haven't played it enough to judge).

I would also like to express how i think the game is shallow on a completely different level too. People seem willing and content to say the game is deep in terms of how you, as a user, are supposed to play it. You know what, it really isn't. Playing this game over time does not open up and sudden incredibly unique styles in which to play it. You play the game in one way and i bet you have since the first weeks that you started playing. There simply is no hidden deep way to 'master' the game as the usual hyperbole goes with PES. I would actually argue that PES 2011 was similar in that but 2012 is far worse. The game feels flat and like there's nothing to master or anything to suddenly discover over time. There's no reward system whereby you feel like you get better the more you play it. This is a video game first and foremost and that is a rather important aspect of the video game experience that has been completely overlooked (whether on purpose or accidentally) by this release. Would i play a fighting game that i could not get better at by practicing constantly in training mode? No. Would i play a racing game that i didn't feel like i could master tracks and cars given enough playing time? No.

That's why it's boring. The whole experience is flat and devoid of having any purpose. It's consistently dull. We can attribute that to the reason you don't have the 'one more game' feeling that people seem to complain about not having.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I think there are a few people that would love a good laugh at you attempting to prove how PES 2012 is "factual to real life technique". Whatever the hell that means.

I need "education" and I'm a "lost cause" because I think PES 2012 is crap and you dont? Dear oh dear. The name calling and baffling accusations of being a "troll" are not far away I fear.

All I have to do is read your article (painful as it will be but I'm sure I'll get through it without falling asleep too many times) then briefly tell you why I disagree with it and you'll be throwing the toys out of the pram all over again before going into another self imposed exile from this thread. Or in other words, a childish sulk.

Your article will confirm nothing but it probably will increase your well deserved reputation as a laughing stock on this thread. The simple reason being you cannot "prove" that someone's opinion regarding the quality of a game is wrong. The fact you cannot seem to grasp this says more about your need for education than it does my own.

So type away if it makes you feel better James but I stand by what I said earlier. You seriously need to get a life and stay away from PES for a while.

Writing long essays on the "factual to real life technique" of a football game in a tragic and ultimately futile attempt to convert people to your way of thinking is not normal behaviour for a man of your age. Are you really THAT desperate for validation of your opinion?

Little puttzy, listen little boy, we will attempt to educate you, all you need to do is break it down for me and show me your understanding of football. When it comes to football, I've forgotten more than you'll ever know, little puttzy.

 

[Jamezinho]

I said to myself about a month ago that PES is incredibly one-dimensional and shallow. I never bothered to post it on here because most people seem content to push around the old PES is deep hyperbole but what you're saying is correct and how i feel (minus the Fifa part as i haven't played it enough to judge).

I would also like to express how i think the game is shallow on a completely different level too. People seem willing and content to say the game is deep in terms of how you, as a user, are supposed to play it. You know what, it really isn't. Playing this game over time does not open up and sudden incredibly unique styles in which to play it. You play the game in one way and i bet you have since the first weeks that you started playing. There simply is no hidden deep way to 'master' the game as the usual hyperbole goes with PES. I would actually argue that PES 2011 was similar in that but 2012 is far worse. The game feels flat and like there's nothing to master or anything to suddenly discover over time. There's no reward system whereby you feel like you get better the more you play it. This is a video game first and foremost and that is a rather important aspect of the video game experience that has been completely overlooked (whether on purpose or accidentally) by this release. Would i play a fighting game that i could not get better at by practicing constantly in training mode? No. Would i play a racing game that i didn't feel like i could master tracks and cars given enough playing time? No.

That's why it's boring. The whole experience is flat and devoid of having any purpose. It's consistently dull. We can attribute that to the reason you don't have the 'one more game' feeling that people seem to complain about not having.

Excellent post. One of the best I've read recently.

 

[romagnoli]

I cant say I'm surprised to see you type something like that. Seems like I have you pretty much pegged.

Oh, wait a minute, forgot this:

Textbook wumming.

Translation: I enjoyed this site more when people just agreed with everything I said and everyone loved PES. Now that people are questioning my opinions and voicing their discontent at the state of PES I have decided they are not my intellectual equals and therefore have nothing of any interest to say.

Doing the same thing twice and expecting a different outcome...

You realise you're now being just as much of a dunce as Johnny was, back when I and others from round here pointed out my history as well as the recent history of the forums. I even remember an early interaction I had with you where I pointed out my history with both games, and you completely didn't get the quite blatant relevance. It was one of the first points where I had to check whether I was on EW or PESfan.

You might be happy to do the italicised, but I'm not any more. I already spend far too much time responding to eejits who don't then pay the slightest attention to the posts where I do talk about PES or FIFA, and then apply whichever template suits them. It's on you for not paying attention in the first place.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Oh, wait a minute, forgot this:

Textbook wumming.



Doing the same thing twice and expecting a different outcome...

You realise you're now being just as much of a dunce as Johnny was, back when I and others from round here pointed out my history as well as the recent history of the forums. I even remember an early interaction I had with you where I pointed out my history with both games, and you completely didn't get the quite blatant relevance. It was one of the first points where I had to check whether I was on EW or PESfan.

You might be happy to do the italicised, but I'm not. It's on you for not paying attention in the first place, while trying to peg people.

Face it Rom, No matter how much you, Curdster or Jimmy try to "educate us" on PES 2012 you's will never change our mind about you guys being bullshitters when it comes to PES.

You have a chip on your shoulder that you think you are better than everyone else (apart from Xaor, he is the one man you worship lol) which makes you look very silly at times. Get over yourself.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I said to myself about a month ago that PES is incredibly one-dimensional and shallow. I never bothered to post it on here because most people seem content to push around the old PES is deep hyperbole but what you're saying is correct and how i feel (minus the Fifa part as i haven't played it enough to judge).

I would also like to express how i think the game is shallow on a completely different level too. People seem willing and content to say the game is deep in terms of how you, as a user, are supposed to play it. You know what, it really isn't. Playing this game over time does not open up and sudden incredibly unique styles in which to play it. You play the game in one way and i bet you have since the first weeks that you started playing. There simply is no hidden deep way to 'master' the game as the usual hyperbole goes with PES. I would actually argue that PES 2011 was similar in that but 2012 is far worse. The game feels flat and like there's nothing to master or anything to suddenly discover over time. There's no reward system whereby you feel like you get better the more you play it. This is a video game first and foremost and that is a rather important aspect of the video game experience that has been completely overlooked (whether on purpose or accidentally) by this release. Would i play a fighting game that i could not get better at by practicing constantly in training mode? No. Would i play a racing game that i didn't feel like i could master tracks and cars given enough playing time? No.

That's why it's boring. The whole experience is flat and devoid of having any purpose. It's consistently dull. We can attribute that to the reason you don't have the 'one more game' feeling that people seem to complain about not having.

I agree with most of this, though I do still think there is plenty to learn about the game over time, but then I also think the same of FIFA12 too. I totally agree with one thing though, that for me the incentive to learn more of the game just wasn't there this time round. The painfully bad aesthetics combined with the CPU AI for me made any sense of authenticity go out the window. It made me acutely aware on a constant basis that I was up against a computer code rather than an organic, accurate replication of how football is played between two teams. If it doesn't look and sound authentic, and it doesn't play authentically, then for me there was little motivation. I played a complete season of ML and knew how every game was going to play out. Playing the game felt flat and repetetive, even when winning.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Face it Rom, No matter how much you, Curdster or Jimmy try to "educate us" on PES 2012 you's will never change our mind about you guys being bullshitters when it comes to PES.

You have a chip on your shoulder that you think you are better than everyone else (apart from Xaor, he is the one man you worship lol) which makes you look very silly at times. Get over yourself.

Excuse me, but aren't you the one, like little puttzy, that didn't even know how to shoot ? And, didn't even realise what R2 did ? Jeez. Ignorance.

Keep a look out for my 'Very Happy with PES 2012' Thread that's coming soon. You might just learn a thing or two, or at least another 4 or 5 different techniques when it comes to shooting. That will be at least a start.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Excuse me, but aren't you the one, like little puttzy, that didn't know how to shoot ? And, didn't even realise what R2 did ? Jeez. Ignorance.

Keep a look out for my 'Very Happy with PES 2012' Thread that's coming soon. You might just learn a thing or two.

Dont know how to shoot are you kidding? I have been playing Konami football games since the Snes.

This is the chip on the shoulder mentality from yourself, Rom & Curdster that people dont like and you's wonder why you's get flak.

 

[romagnoli]

Face it Rom, No matter how much you, Curdster or Jimmy try to "educate us" on PES 2012 you's will never change our mind about you guys being bullshitters when it comes to PES.

Ah, Johnny. I honestly don't know what you think my opinion is on PES 2012, retail version. I know I've made it clear, but I don't know if it gets through. But in any case, I want you to know that, whatever happens, your mother and I love you very very much.

@Northzzz - I agree to an extent, in certain aspects anyway. We always talk about the whole 'Easy To Learn...' cliche, and to me I feel the ETL has been dragged up way too far, while the HTM curve flattens out far too much. I also don't like the 4 gameplan system as much as last year's time-based team management. I tend to change players around from game to game, and my formations vary based on opposition. Without the ability to copy the 'lead' formation to the other panels so that only the sliders change, I just don't find it as effective in practice as it feels in theory. It'd be fine if I just had the same gameplan from match to match, but I just don't.

That said, I don't find the formations as important in 2012 as 2011, which is a bit of a contradiction given the above.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Ah, Johnny. I honestly don't know what you think my opinion is on PES 2012, retail version. I know I've made it clear, but I don't know if it gets through. But in any case, I want you to know that, whatever happens, your mother and I love you very very much.

Is that a roundabout way of saying that you think the game is shit? Are you waiting on Jimmy's essay to "educate" you as well.

See if this game in August was so amazing why dont you guys post up video's of it when you played it round at Adams am sure we'd all love to see them.

My mother has been dead for over 29 years but if bringing her into this helps you then fireaway with your next insult.

 

[DuduBR9]

Yup, you're bang on with these comments. I don't care how much anyone claims PES recreates, say, fundamentals of body positioning when shooting, or any technical recreations of ball control etc. I don't care because beyond this the fundamentals of how real football is played out between two teams is totally wrong. Matches in PES2012 are one dimensional, they do play out the same no matter your opponent, be it Barcelona or Stoke, and this is where, for me, any pretentions of PES being a sim or replication of the game fall down quite spectacularly. The game utterly fails on all levels to replicate a CPU opponent that has any sense of variety or play as they would in real life. I don't expect miracles from a game but I do expect, in 2012, that Konami should by now be able to see a CPU Barcelona dominate me in terms of possession. Instead, I could play as Wigan and still have 60% of the play every time, with the only difference being how hard the CPU presses you with defenders and how devastating they are on the counter attack. Totally unrealistic, no matter what other aspects the game might get right.

FIFA12 on the other hand has taken giant strides this year and continues to astonish me how well the CPU opposition replicates CPU possession and periods of pressure in games that ebb and flow. I lost a game today at Arsenal where I took an early lead, got heavily pressured, then pegged back, before the game swung each way in periods of pressure before the final 20 minutes seeing Arsenal slowly wind up the pressure so I could barely get out of my half before buckling and conceding a winner late on.

Despite losing, I loved the match itself because it played out exactly how a tough trip to Arsenal would play out, with me narrowly failing to hold on to a slow start by Arsenal and the CPU ended up finishing on 57% of the ball over the 90 minutes. This, I never see in PES, ever. For me there's the core difference between the two, why I think FIFA12 is the more realistic. If I'd have played the same fixture in PES2012 I'd have dominated the ball, with the only difference between Arsensl and a lesser team being that Arsenal would pressure faster and stronger, and they'd have still sat back and caught me on the break a couple of times. It's old and boring.

I appreciate FIFA needs tightening up in certain areas such as ball control but overall its reputation this year is unjust and tempered by older versions of rhe game, from FIFA11 down, which were indeed horrible arcadey messes. This year EA have done a brilliant job and made so many key areas more realistic. The addition of sliders enables you to enhance those to get a game in my opinion far in excess of PES. Not for the way ball control etc is portrayed, like I said, but because the replication of a real match against real opponents is vastly more varied and realistic. If I go to the Nou Camp in FIFA12 I will brace myself and expect to manfully be chasing shadows for most of the match. The complete opposite is true of PES2012.

Just my two cents.

Is it worth buying Fifa 12 just for offline play ? I can play online too, but not very often since i know every footbal game online sucks, there's always a way to explore game faults and 99% percent online do it and play in easiest level possible.

Fifa was always bad offline, but since your are more an offline player, it seems that fifa is good thi year, at least decent, and pes 2012 is far from it imo.


Anyway, i got so upset and disappointed with pes 2012 that i decided to not buy any football game, but i think this is not very fair.I've been thinking about giving fifa 12 a try. I played the demo and i didn't like it, but from what i read in some your posts, it seems that fifa 12 full version has a completely different felling compared to the demo version, wich is exactly the opposie regarding pes 2012.


I think the possibility of adjusting the game in many aspects is great and it can possibly make a huge difference.

Usually my opinion fits with yours.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Dont know how to shoot are you kidding? I have been playing Konami football games since the Snes.

This is the chip on the shoulder mentality from yourself, Rom & Curdster that people dont like and you's wonder why you's get flak.

Really ? And yet you complain that your unable to shoot and your shots go in the opposite direction ? (blaming some Konami conspiracy regarding protecting keepers ?????!! WTF !! ) You then stated that your unable, like little puttzy, to find the corners of the goal. You then stated that you had no idea how the R2 controlled shot worked ? Do you see the link here ?

Tell me Mr Flawed, tell me the button process for ALL the available controlled shots ?

Tell me what is required to find the corners, tell me exactly the new shooting techniques that have been incorporated this year. Tell me how and why they are relevant ?

Playing PES since Snes doesnt wash, times have changed. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. Trying reinventing yourself

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Really ? And yet to you complain that your unable to shoot and your shots go in the opposite direction ? You then stated that your unable, like little puttzy, find the corners of the goal. You then stated that you had no idea how the R2 controlled shot worked ? Do you see the link here ?

Tell me Mr Flawed, tell me the button process for ALL the available controlled shots ?

Tell me what is required to find the corners, tell me exactly the new shooting techniques that have been incorporated this year. Tell me how and why they are relevant ?

Playing PES since Snes doesnt wash, times have changed. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. Trying reinventing yourself

Im sorry but visit any PES forum and you have people saying the same thing about shooting....even the guys on WENB forum are saying the shooting mechanics are broken so you know there is something severly wrong for them to complain, you are in the minority regarding the shooting here not me.

Go play Demo 1 or 2 the shooting mechanics are fine...since the patches the shooting got nerfed due to the keepers being awful.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Im sorry but visit any PES forum and you have people saying the same thing about shooting....even the guys on WENB forum are saying the shooting mechanics are broken so you know there is something severly wrong for them to complain, you are in the minority regarding the shooting here not me.

Yes I am, because not only do I understand all the techniques, I'm also brilliant at not only executing them, but also choosing the right technique for the right player and situation. And that is all done by understanding football and the absolute basics of real-life technique.

Don't avoid my questions, if you want to be taken seriously, answer the questions.........

 

[romagnoli]

Is that a roundabout way of saying that you think the game is shit? Are you waiting on Jimmy's essay to "educate" you as well.

Read my post history. You should find that you and I have never ACTUALLY talked about PES. Certainly I can't recall any such discussion. Only ever about my supposed biases or cronyism, or how dim you are and how much of a relief you and Johnny are not two separate people.

See if this game in August was so amazing why dont you guys post up video's of it when you played it round at Adams am sure we'd all love to see them.

Sadly we were playing PES in a court of law, so we weren't allowed to film the proceedings. There was a guy trying to draw it all but it was moving much too quickly for him.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Read my post history. You should find that you and I have never ACTUALLY talked about PES. Only ever about my supposed biases or cronyism, or how dim you are.


Sadly we were playing PES in a court of law, so we weren't allowed to film the proceedings. There was a guy trying to draw it all but it was moving much too quickly for him.

No insult this time? No joke about my father this time round? He's still alive so it wouldn't of been as bad.

How was the shooting mechanics back in August compared to todays PES?

Surly Adam still has the code? Konami wont give a fuck now the game is out... Get him to take some video's...let the world see that you guys are not liars and it was totally different back then. Surly Demo 1 would of been around August code?

 

[romagnoli]

No insult this time? No joke about my father this time round? He's still alive so it wouldn't of been as bad.

My original comment was purely taking the piss out of you. I have no interest in your personal life, neither to become your friend nor to cause greater offence. However you're using your mother's death to try and score some sort of moral victory on a football game forum. I realise by saying that it seems like I'm doing the same, but someone has to point this out to you.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

My original comment was purely taking the piss out of you. I have no interest in your personal life, neither to become your friend nor to cause greater offence. However you're using your mother's death to try and score some sort of moral victory on a football game forum. I realise by saying that it seems like I'm doing the same, but someone has to point this out to you.

How about on a PES forum leaving peoples mother's out of things? There was no need for it simple as that.

Back to PES....

How was the shooting mechanics back in August compared to todays PES?

Surly Adam still has the code? Konami wont give a fuck now the game is out... Get him to take some video's...let the world see that you guys are not liars and it was totally different back then. Surly Demo 1 would of been around August code?

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Is it worth buying Fifa 12 just for offline play ? I can play online too, but not very often since i know every footbal game online sucks, there's always a to explore game faults and 99% percent online do it and play in easiest level possible.

Fifa was always bad offline, but since your are more an offline player, it seems that fifa is good thi year, at least decenet, and pes 2012 is far from it imo.


Anyway, i got so upset and disappointed with pes 2012 that i decided to not buy any football game, but i think this is not very fair.I've been thinking about giving fifa 12 a try. I played the demo and i didn't like it, but from what i read in some your posts, it seems that fifa 12 full version has a completely different felling compared to the demo version, wich is exactly the opposie regarding pes 2012.


I think the possibility of adjusting the game in many aspects is great and it can possibly make a huge difference.

Usually my opinion fits with yours.

It's certainly worth a try especially as there are no other options other than PES. I think the game is massively improved over the demo, but perhaps the safest way to try is to rent it first if you can. That way you can play around with the settings and sliders and see what can be done. One thing is for sure, the FIFA12 thread is a lot happier than here!

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

How about on a PES forum leaving peoples mother's out of things? There was no need for it simple as that.

Back to PES....

How was the shooting mechanics back in August compared to todays PES?

Surly Adam still has the code? Konami wont give a fuck now the game is out... Get him to take some video's...let the world see that you guys are not liars and it was totally different back then. Surly Demo 1 would of been around August code?

Your pathetic little whines and moans aimed at Rom and Alan, hold zero validity if you cannot even explain what it is that you have a problem with shooting wise ?

You can't even answers the very simple questions I've posed, if you don't know the answer to those, then on how on earth can you complain that something is broken ? It's broken because you don't know the answer ? Yeah ?

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Your pathetic little whines and moans aimed at Rom and Alan, hold zero validity if you cannot even explain what it is that you have a problem with shooting wise ?

You can't even answers the very simple questions I've posed, if you don't know the answer to those, then on how on earth can you complain that something is broken ? It's broken because you don't know the answer ? Yeah ?

It's no different to the majority of people so im sure you have read it over and over.....You only need to read the last few pages. Could it be you somehow got a different game from the rest of us? Maybe you got the August edition?

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I have the very same game, the only difference is that I know exactly how to play it.

Are you saying you don't know the answers to those very basic shooting questions ? Because doing your very best to avoid the answers ?

Right, just to get this straight, your not happy with PES, but, you have no idea how to play it ? Is that right ?

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I have the very same game, the only difference is that I know exactly how to play it.

Are you saying you don't know the answers to those very basic shooting questions ? Because doing your very best to avoid the answers ?

Right, just to get this straight, your not happy with PES, but, you have no idea how to play it ? Is that right ?

Jimmy stop being silly, the shooting mechanics are fucked. FACT. You are acting like im the only one that thinks this...have you not read the 79 pages of this thread?

Where is you essay....we are all waiting patiently.