Robbery
stay cool its a Robbery
i bet you will 
me too!
me too!The Drama Thread
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curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......
Who said questions are not being asked, Lami?
Just because I choose not to refer to it as a bug doesn't mean I don't see what others see.
You can acknowledge something exists but see it differently from others. You can also take on board multiple sources and come to your own conclusions. That doesn't mean I am in denial, it means I simply see things differently based on all the information I have had access to.
Goodnight.
Who said questions are not being asked, Lami?
Just because I choose not to refer to it as a bug doesn't mean I don't see what others see.
You can acknowledge something exists but see it differently from others. You can also take on board multiple sources and come to your own conclusions. That doesn't mean I am in denial, it means I simply see things differently based on all the information I have had access to.
Goodnight.
Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......
It's frankly bizarre to see this community in such turmoil, and people at eachother's throats. We're all on the same side here. This community is being practically ripped apart.
Alan,
There is a lot of confusion about what WENB's line actually is. I'm still not sure which of these two views it is:
1) There is something which looks problematic in those videos. The videos are not representative of the build. The build is fine, as are the other builds.
If that is the case, I don't think it's been made very clear. That viewpoint makes sense - and if that was the viewpoint which had been put out, I think a lot of this farce would not have happened.
2) The videos represent the build well, there isn't a problem, it looks fine (or, even though it looks like that, it plays fine when it does)
On the other hand if this is the case, as some things which have been said imply, then we have a different issue. There are HOURS of video footage which go towards making a case that there is, in the gamescom build, an issue where after EVERY ground pass, the player immediately runs forward in the same way that he would if you were initiating a 1-2. Not only that, but there is also a lot of footage showing that this did not happen in any other build. So if that is WENB's view, then there is not only quite a lot of evidence against it, ALL of the video evidence is against it. Now, we're all aware that videos are not the best way of judging a game, but I think it's not absurd with the sheer amount of videos, from a wide range of sources, with a wide range of teams, some with the CPU playing to think that there just might be something wrong with that build.
While you can expect some people to trust your view on this that line was never going to make everyone happy and quiet.
--------------
For me, that's where WENB could have done better. Either there isn't enough clarity, or you're asking people to believe something which is hard to believe, and then coming down hard on people who dissent. For those who know you guys, it's not difficult for us to trust you. I believe Asim and Suff's words, but to expect everyone on the internet to do the same is asking a lot.
From there though, I think WENB handled things fine. You guys made your point, and you asked people to stop - and they didn't. And that's not OK. Personally I was happy to wait a few days for the demo, after getting the answers I was looking for, and to just leave the issue dormant for then. Not only that but I fully expected to find that there were no issues in either demo, or the full game.
Those who did not do that crossed the line. Everyone had made their arguments, and that should have been the end of it until the demo came out. But that isn't what happened. That is the failing of those who wouldn't stop, but, at the same time, I think you guys could have handled it a little better. For instance (Captain Hindsight at the ready) you could have made a post on the front of WENB to clarify, as was done with the trigger-runs. You could have had a "drama" thread much like there is here. It's worked pretty well, I think. So, WENB could have acted more wisely, at least in hindsight.
It's water under the bridge relative to the good that WENB does for the PES community and will surely continue to do, but you guys don't get everything right - nobody does - and that really shouldn't offend you to hear either.
I hope that you can take this as it is. I don't want a war, nor an argument - I want this fiasco to end as soon as possible and as cleanly as possible. I feel thoroughly sickened by all that's happened over the last few days. I say this as a friend of WENB, who writes for FSB and hopes to continue working with Kitana Media. I know Adam, and I've met Suff and Asim - I'm just trying to see it from both sides here. Please don't take this the wrong way.
- Toby
It's frankly bizarre to see this community in such turmoil, and people at eachother's throats. We're all on the same side here. This community is being practically ripped apart.
Alan,
There is a lot of confusion about what WENB's line actually is. I'm still not sure which of these two views it is:
1) There is something which looks problematic in those videos. The videos are not representative of the build. The build is fine, as are the other builds.
If that is the case, I don't think it's been made very clear. That viewpoint makes sense - and if that was the viewpoint which had been put out, I think a lot of this farce would not have happened.
2) The videos represent the build well, there isn't a problem, it looks fine (or, even though it looks like that, it plays fine when it does)
On the other hand if this is the case, as some things which have been said imply, then we have a different issue. There are HOURS of video footage which go towards making a case that there is, in the gamescom build, an issue where after EVERY ground pass, the player immediately runs forward in the same way that he would if you were initiating a 1-2. Not only that, but there is also a lot of footage showing that this did not happen in any other build. So if that is WENB's view, then there is not only quite a lot of evidence against it, ALL of the video evidence is against it. Now, we're all aware that videos are not the best way of judging a game, but I think it's not absurd with the sheer amount of videos, from a wide range of sources, with a wide range of teams, some with the CPU playing to think that there just might be something wrong with that build.
While you can expect some people to trust your view on this that line was never going to make everyone happy and quiet.
--------------
For me, that's where WENB could have done better. Either there isn't enough clarity, or you're asking people to believe something which is hard to believe, and then coming down hard on people who dissent. For those who know you guys, it's not difficult for us to trust you. I believe Asim and Suff's words, but to expect everyone on the internet to do the same is asking a lot.
From there though, I think WENB handled things fine. You guys made your point, and you asked people to stop - and they didn't. And that's not OK. Personally I was happy to wait a few days for the demo, after getting the answers I was looking for, and to just leave the issue dormant for then. Not only that but I fully expected to find that there were no issues in either demo, or the full game.
Those who did not do that crossed the line. Everyone had made their arguments, and that should have been the end of it until the demo came out. But that isn't what happened. That is the failing of those who wouldn't stop, but, at the same time, I think you guys could have handled it a little better. For instance (Captain Hindsight at the ready) you could have made a post on the front of WENB to clarify, as was done with the trigger-runs. You could have had a "drama" thread much like there is here. It's worked pretty well, I think. So, WENB could have acted more wisely, at least in hindsight.
It's water under the bridge relative to the good that WENB does for the PES community and will surely continue to do, but you guys don't get everything right - nobody does - and that really shouldn't offend you to hear either.
I hope that you can take this as it is. I don't want a war, nor an argument - I want this fiasco to end as soon as possible and as cleanly as possible. I feel thoroughly sickened by all that's happened over the last few days. I say this as a friend of WENB, who writes for FSB and hopes to continue working with Kitana Media. I know Adam, and I've met Suff and Asim - I'm just trying to see it from both sides here. Please don't take this the wrong way.
- Toby
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jaygrim
TheAllSeeingEye
dannyfc2
Premier League
- 9 June 2009
Chortled quite loudly at that.
WENB is a cult, PES is God and Adam is the prophet. Only Adam can hear God so if we don't 100% believe and the trust the information he relays then we're non-believers ("haters") that must be banished from the holy community. Curdstar and co. are the mad preachers you see in the centre of town, prophesying the return of the saviour.
Evo-Web are atheists.
dannyfc2
Premier League
- 9 June 2009
Give me access to early preview code Daniel and will shamelessly sell my morals and principles down the river and lie through my back teeth, at the drop of a hat. I say at the drop of a hat.
Where do I sign up ?
No problem. I'll also throw in a place in the exclusive PES United squad.
sincover
Championship
- 16 August 2010
Chortled quite loudly at that.
WENB is a cult, PES is God and Adam is the prophet. Only Adam can hear God so if we don't 100% believe and the trust the information he relays then we're non-believers ("haters") that must be banished from the holy community. Curdstar and co. are the mad preachers you see in the centre of town, prophesying the return of the saviour.
Evo-Web are atheists.
[joke]More like Muslims; we at evo web still believe in PES but have doubts in the PES Messiah (Adam).[/joke]
dannyfc2
Premier League
- 9 June 2009
In fairness it's difficult not to when you see some of the melodramatic reactions on there, like I said it's just blatant cringeworthy attempts to direct the attention onto them. Do they seriously believe people are making up complaints just to undermine their opinion?
dannyfc2
Premier League
- 9 June 2009
David Rutter is blatantly the devil in this analogy.
In fairness it's difficult not to when you see some of the melodramatic reactions on there, like I said it's just blatant cringeworthy attempts to direct the attention onto them. Do they seriously believe people are making up complaints just to undermine their opinion?
No, it's surprisingly easy. If you want to attack WENB (or the people behind it), do it somewhere else. You are completely ignoring a moderator's plea. It's juvenile, it's rude, it's offensive, and it's divisive. You may not like WENB, you may disagree with some of the things which they've done, recently or otherwise, and you are entitled to that opinion and entitled to state it, but past that, you're going way over the line.
The PES community as a whole needs to heal this divide, not stick fucking dynamite in it. Keep the personal stuff, as it should be, personal. If you want to take it up with Adam, at least do it like a man, to his face, rather than behind his back.
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dannyfc2
Premier League
- 9 June 2009
I've lurked on most PES forums since about 2003, but the only one I've bothered with in the last couple of years has been Evo-Web. It's probably the smallest of the 'big ones', but easily the most level headed and sensible. 
- Staff
- #224
theopinion
Non-League
- 21 August 2011
Hey Everyone
First post on these boards, longtime lurker.
The issue im having with this whole debate is that some people are actually denying what they see with their own eyes. As a footballer and as fan of the sport and its many intricacies, what I see happening in those videos is not realistic in any sense of the word regarding the runs. Im sure most of you have played football, socially or at local club level. If anyone here can tell me with a straight face, that your coach or team-mates encouraged you to run forward after every single pass than I will stop posting right away.
Im fine with what happening in the final third with the runs, also to a certain extent in the midfield area. But for a defensive line to lose shape after every pass would bring Sir Alex to tears. Imagine trying to play the ball from Left Back to LCB to RCB to Right back, and decide to go the other way again, it would not work.
Do players in certain teams, in certain situations perform these runs? Sure. Just watch Barca, Real, ManU, Arsenal etc. and you will see that the righ-backs and left-backs will occassionally, when situation demands it, move forward to support attacks and to add width up front, as do midfielders when the opportunity arises. Sometimes they are ordered to actively seek out positions higher up the pitch, sometime not.(Barca Vs Madrid SuperCup 2nd Leg, Alves was told to stay put and defend against Ronaldo, usually Alves spends his time in the opposition half)
Pique(CB at Barca) will also make these runs, but very rarely. He will then proceed to take position up the field, with Busquets taking his position at the back so he can spray a pass to Xavi or Iniesta and join the attack for a few minutes(Watch Ibrahimovic`s Goal Against Real).
At the end of the day like most of us will agree its just a game, but Pes is supposed to represent the more realistic version of the sport we love, and people who love the sport, those who love football would not want an automated system of runs at the back, where gaps could potentially be exploited, not saying they will be, but could potentially become a huge Headache for everyone in the future. I wish i was able to set my own settings for the level of active Ai runs in Defence, Midfield and Attack, untill that day comes we just have to hope it all works out and we arent left with good core game ruined by one or two mechanics which spoil it.
And to be honest if you ignore the defensive line making those runs, and just concentrate on the midfield and attacking movement in those videos it looks like a fantastic game, im just hoping the whole package delivers and its just a bug that crept up(no pun intended). Dont let anyone tell what you are allowed to express about this issue, we all pay our $40, so we are all entitled to an opinion as long as its respecful.
As for the whole WENB debate, ill leave that for another day.
First post on these boards, longtime lurker.
The issue im having with this whole debate is that some people are actually denying what they see with their own eyes. As a footballer and as fan of the sport and its many intricacies, what I see happening in those videos is not realistic in any sense of the word regarding the runs. Im sure most of you have played football, socially or at local club level. If anyone here can tell me with a straight face, that your coach or team-mates encouraged you to run forward after every single pass than I will stop posting right away.
Im fine with what happening in the final third with the runs, also to a certain extent in the midfield area. But for a defensive line to lose shape after every pass would bring Sir Alex to tears. Imagine trying to play the ball from Left Back to LCB to RCB to Right back, and decide to go the other way again, it would not work.
Do players in certain teams, in certain situations perform these runs? Sure. Just watch Barca, Real, ManU, Arsenal etc. and you will see that the righ-backs and left-backs will occassionally, when situation demands it, move forward to support attacks and to add width up front, as do midfielders when the opportunity arises. Sometimes they are ordered to actively seek out positions higher up the pitch, sometime not.(Barca Vs Madrid SuperCup 2nd Leg, Alves was told to stay put and defend against Ronaldo, usually Alves spends his time in the opposition half)
Pique(CB at Barca) will also make these runs, but very rarely. He will then proceed to take position up the field, with Busquets taking his position at the back so he can spray a pass to Xavi or Iniesta and join the attack for a few minutes(Watch Ibrahimovic`s Goal Against Real).
At the end of the day like most of us will agree its just a game, but Pes is supposed to represent the more realistic version of the sport we love, and people who love the sport, those who love football would not want an automated system of runs at the back, where gaps could potentially be exploited, not saying they will be, but could potentially become a huge Headache for everyone in the future. I wish i was able to set my own settings for the level of active Ai runs in Defence, Midfield and Attack, untill that day comes we just have to hope it all works out and we arent left with good core game ruined by one or two mechanics which spoil it.
And to be honest if you ignore the defensive line making those runs, and just concentrate on the midfield and attacking movement in those videos it looks like a fantastic game, im just hoping the whole package delivers and its just a bug that crept up(no pun intended). Dont let anyone tell what you are allowed to express about this issue, we all pay our $40, so we are all entitled to an opinion as long as its respecful.
As for the whole WENB debate, ill leave that for another day.
Lol, oh lord, this chap is the biggest attention seeker imaginable, £10 says he's back within a week so his community can have a thread full of 'THE KING IS BACK!!!!!'
the king back now lol i want £10
and it didn't require 3 days to happen oooh wait a minute actually it didn't require more than 3 hours to be back lol
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dannyfc2
Premier League
- 9 June 2009
theopinion is bang on the money...
..that said, having seen my team absolutely capitulate and concede 3 goal against Cheltenham last Saturday, I don't know what to believe about professional footballer's understanding of defensive duties anymore.
..that said, having seen my team absolutely capitulate and concede 3 goal against Cheltenham last Saturday, I don't know what to believe about professional footballer's understanding of defensive duties anymore.
hear hear theopinion
I'd like an explanation as to why my post was removed...I was only asking a question of a member.
Anyways jaygrim that picture is pure genius - made me roll about on the floor with laughing...oh the bathos...our 'PES Messiah' is dead...only to reappear to his followers 3 hours later. Positivity that's what you need (under all circumstances)!
Let's hope PES is half the fun of the last few days in the PES universe.
I'd like an explanation as to why my post was removed...I was only asking a question of a member.
Anyways jaygrim that picture is pure genius - made me roll about on the floor with laughing...oh the bathos...our 'PES Messiah' is dead...only to reappear to his followers 3 hours later. Positivity that's what you need (under all circumstances)!
Let's hope PES is half the fun of the last few days in the PES universe.
Messiah Ban Victim
Non-League
- 21 August 2011
Hi fooks, i am new. I want to ask about online mode.
Do you think we get top team filters in quick ranked match or do we get another drama year of playing barca only?
cheers
Do you think we get top team filters in quick ranked match or do we get another drama year of playing barca only?
cheers
Andy
Evoweb Jester/Stadboardmaker.
As for Jimmy no offense mate but long time readers of Evo-Web know you are Goebbels of PES.
I have to say we have seen Jimmy called some things but this takes the biscuit
I have to say we have seen Jimmy called some things but this takes the biscuit
But it does ring true lol
bornyesterday
Banned
- 21 August 2011
I got banned from WENB as well for questioning the official line, i dont understand how someone can say they see the behaviour but not think its a bug? i still havent seen anyone explain how it could not be a bug, i really want to know...i was asking them to explain and apparently that was horribly offensive
but anyway i dont really care no hard feelings, the demo will come out and there will most likely be no bug and then i want to see what people who have defended it say, will they request the bug to be put back in?
but anyway i dont really care no hard feelings, the demo will come out and there will most likely be no bug and then i want to see what people who have defended it say, will they request the bug to be put back in?
actually adam seems to be eager to spot a single pass that's not followed by aimless forward run in any single gamescom video "many GC videos out there" but that seems to be a hard job indeed lol
look what he said under that video
oooh man finally ?? congratulations for that lol
and the same did alan early today rushed to post an older video here from the E3 code "posted there" just as a proof to his claims "but hey its from older build"
and what they both are doing completely goes against their own "NO-VIDEO PROOF BUT TRUST ME" concept
the reason why they don't want a video proof to rely on is because there's actually not a single gamescom video to support their claims , and if there is , u would probably find that video on their front page
btw the video he spotted is full of this funny run forward after passing bug
i think spotting a single pass in a single video out of hundreds of Gamescom gameplay footage shows well how greatly evident the run bug in GC code
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- Staff
- #238
I think this thread has run it's course now ... despite numerous requests to stop the WENB/Adam bashing,it's still going on...sorry chaps.....if you want to vent any anger/disagreement with or towards them please do it at their site...CLOSED
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