Spanish La Liga Thread

[PIPA23]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/596/exc...barcelona-play-in-a-league-sentenced-to-death

 

[amineken22]

Goal.com really pipa and how can one trust someone who's last name is GAY?

 

[bebo]

Great match, I think the ref was even he didn`t give 2 stone wall penalties for each side. There was the 2 send offs he didn`t give (strangely enough a tackle from behind) I think Ronaldo n Messi are clearly deserving exceptional players. Today , Ronaldo was better n showed more class
Messi had a downer imo running w/ the waving invisible card

RM needed the win more, As for Barca it was a good result.

 

[drekkard]

Today , Ronaldo was better n showed more class
Messi had a downer imo running w/ the waving invisible card

Xabi alonso clearly deserved to be sent off. He had a yellow already and he tackles Messi from behind, no chance to touch the ball and with danger. How this can be a "downer" for Messi s beyond my mind. It should be a downer for the referee. I guess you didnt see Ronaldo making the "shut up" sign to the public, then after each goal. Yeah, classy...

Both are splendid players. Ronaldo is an exceptional finisher, but Messi also assists and creates lots of plays for others. The way he almost single handedly changed the tide of the match in the second hald tells a lot.

Madrid was better in the first half, but Barcelona was better in the 2nd. At the end, I think the result was fair and football prevailed in one of the most tight Classicos lately. A miracle for Barcelona considering that all 4 defenders from one year ago were injured: Abidal, Pique, Puyol and Alves. Recovering those players would do a lot of good to the team!

And by the way, Atletico de Madrid is up there in the table as well, people should consider them serious title contenders, as they have the third best striker in the league and a serious and compact team that can deliver a lot of surpises if Simeone finally makes them a bit more consistent away.

 

[fanolato]

Xabi alonso clearly deserved to be sent off. He had a yellow already and he tackles Messi from behind, no chance to touch the ball and with danger. How this can be a "downer" for Messi s beyond my mind. It should be a downer for the referee. I guess you didnt see Ronaldo making the "shut up" sign to the public, then after each goal. Yeah, classy...

Both are splendid players. Ronaldo is an exceptional finisher, but Messi also assists and creates lots of plays for others. The way he almost single handedly changed the tide of the match in the second hald tells a lot.

Madrid was better in the first half, but Barcelona was better in the 2nd. At the end, I think the result was fair and football prevailed in one of the most tight Classicos lately. A miracle for Barcelona considering that all 4 defenders from one year ago were injured: Abidal, Pique, Puyol and Alves. Recovering those players would do a lot of good to the team!

And by the way, Atletico de Madrid is up there in the table as well, people should consider them serious title contenders, as they have the third best striker in the league and a serious and compact team that can deliver a lot of surpises if Simeone finally makes them a bit more consistent away.

Malaga are also contenders as far as I am concerned. They were a touch away from being in second place themselves. Excellent games.

Best league in the world. Not the flashiest, best supported or best organized, but to me the best football.

 

[bebo]

Xabi alonso clearly deserved to be sent off. He had a yellow already and he tackles Messi from behind, no chance to touch the ball and with danger. How this can be a "downer" for Messi s beyond my mind. It should be a downer for the referee. I guess you didnt see Ronaldo making the "shut up" sign to the public, then after each goal. Yeah, classy...

Both are splendid players. Ronaldo is an exceptional finisher, but Messi also assists and creates lots of plays for others. The way he almost single handedly changed the tide of the match in the second hald tells a lot.

Madrid was better in the first half, but Barcelona was better in the 2nd. At the end, I think the result was fair and football prevailed in one of the most tight Classicos lately. A miracle for Barcelona considering that all 4 defenders from one year ago were injured: Abidal, Pique, Puyol and Alves. Recovering those players would do a lot of good to the team!

And by the way, Atletico de Madrid is up there in the table as well, people should consider them serious title contenders, as they have the third best striker in the league and a serious and compact team that can deliver a lot of surpises if Simeone finally makes them a bit more consistent away.

I see nothing wrong in Ronaldo calming the fans down after scoring. Both players were great last night. The only downer was the incident its no biggie really. Both players tackle from behind both could of seen red and one acted gracefully and the other didn't. RM needed the win and Barça did well to draw.

 

[Enzo]

Great match, I think the ref was even he didn`t give 2 stone wall penalties for each side. There was the 2 send offs he didn`t give (strangely enough a tackle from behind) I think Ronaldo n Messi are clearly deserving exceptional players. Today , Ronaldo was better n showed more class
Messi had a downer imo running w/ the waving invisible card

RM needed the win more, As for Barca it was a good result.

You are heavily biased towards Real Madrid, try to be more objective.

Real Madrid had good start, culminating at weak goalkeeping by Valdes and good low shot by Ronaldo. After that RM messed in the own box and Messi acted like ''fox in the box'' scoring equalizer.

Second half was about Barcelona, without Pique and Puyol defence had a hard day at the office. Xavi Alonso was lucky not to get red, way too many fouls. Montoya hit the post, Pedro had two chances at the end. Ronaldo goal was nothing special as it was pure one on one situation. Obviously player of his caliber should slot it home.

CR7 freekick hits the wall, Messi freekick hits the net. Obviously Ronaldo free kicks are way too overrated, its actually been proven statistically too. I hope people stop mentioning this as his one of the most lethal skills.

Overall good game with Barcelona being a little bit closer to victory than RM. Considering lack of defense I would say Barcelona should be happy. RM in the end didn't produce enough to win, but enough to get a tie.. 8 points

Falcao btw scored more than Messi and CR7, interesting battle this year!

 

[gerd]

IMO Falcao is the best natural scorer and pure CF in the world, not Messi or Ronaldo.
You have to take into consideration that Falcao plays for a considerably weaker (although still very good) team and especially that he is capable of performing even better in very important matches, something Ronaldo has less...

 

[bebo]

You are heavily biased towards Real Madrid, try to be more objective.

Well, I only support 1 club 'The Arsenal' I have nothing against Barca nor RM. I obviously love Fabregas n seeing Song grow as a player is interesting I want him to excel.

So, 1 day I may favour Barca and the next RM. I call it how I see it. Barca had 1 shot on goal in the 1st half. The Messi goal,but at home that`s unbelievable and RM had their chances. Barca did well to change the game around in the 2nd. The draw was fair in the end, MOTM was Ronaldo imo.

 

[drekkard]

Well, I only support 1 club 'The Arsenal' I have nothing against Barca nor RM. I obviously love Fabregas n seeing Song grow as a player is interesting I want him to excel.

So, 1 day I may favour Barca and the next RM. I call it how I see it. Barca had 1 shot on goal in the 1st half. The Messi goal,but at home that`s unbelievable and RM had their chances. Barca did well to change the game around in the 2nd. The draw was fair in the end, MOTM was Ronaldo imo.

I totally disagree with Ronaldo being MOTM. Why? Because he scored 2 goals in which he was greatly assisted? Because, frankly, other than that and 2 fouls in the wing, I can't recall anything remarkable from him.

Messi did a lot more than Ronaldo, setting all the danger of Barcelona, assisting, scoring and causing 4 yellow cards to Madrid players (personally I think Messi edges Ronaldo in every aspect of football except on the athletics and long shots).

Messi alone can drive mad the whole Madrid defense. I saw once 4 players trying to tackle him, and he went through and assisted Iniesta. You will never see Ronaldo do that. And in the worse moments of Barcelona, you can see Messi gathering the ball in the halfline to start the play.

On the other hand I totally agree with you that the result was fair. In the first half Barcelona had 3 shots on goal, not one. But definitely not as dangerous as the 3 clear chances that Madrid had (a Ramos header that was close, the goal and a post).

In the second half, Barcelona shot a lot more and with more danger than Madrid. After all, Madrid only had Ronaldo's goal and 2 late Higuain efforts. Barcelona had two close shots from Pedro, Montoya's post, a terrible shot by Iniesta, one from Xavi, Messi's goal and a late close effort by Pedro that was going in was Alexis deflected on his run.

So yes, credit to Real for the first half, in which totally shot down Barcelona. And credit to Barcelona for the second half effort reverting the trend. Both teams played very tactical football and showed they have the best players around.

PS: I think Tito missed the starting formation for the match. Cesc shouldn't have played, and we needed 2 wingers to create spaces and let Xavi and Messi do their diagonal assists to the wing. When Alexis came in the pitch, the match changed completely. We need to play a 4-3-3 with 2 wingers upfront. Specially against big teams.

 

[PLF]

Falcao being 3rd best striker in the league Alexis?

Surely he's a much better pure striker than Ronaldo and Messi.

He's #1 striker in the league and probably #1 in the world imo.

But yes messi and ronaldo are better footballers and give more assists, create more chances etc.

But despite how many goals Ronaldo and Messi have both scored in recent seasons, If I'm the coach and I know it's the 90th minute and our team will get ONE chance to get the victory, I trust Falcao to put it in back of the net more than those two. Those two score a lot of goals but also miss fair bit of chances. Not to mention Falcao >>>> Messi and Ronaldo in headers and in the air even if both Messi and Ronaldo are better headers of the ball than most give them credit for. He's also very good with both feet!

 

[bebo]

PS: I think Tito missed the starting formation for the match. Cesc shouldn't have played, and we needed 2 wingers to create spaces and let Xavi and Messi do their diagonal assists to the wing. When Alexis came in the pitch, the match changed completely. We need to play a 4-3-3 with 2 wingers upfront. Specially against big teams.

I think introducing Alex was more of raw energy he brought more life to the match. I think Tito was right to leave him off and sub him in at the time he did.

I think Cesc was great he did nothing wrong he made runs and getting the ball back (wearing down the opponent). This Barcelona is not the same of Pep. You see a mix of direct football and crosses from corners and GK kicks up the pitch. (Maybe a plan B to secure the win over style?!?) I think Mou`s strength is pressing and replacing players for player(subbing) validates my views. I think Messi has a better surrounding core players than Ronaldo. I think Messi ,and you being a Messianic will disagree He hasn`t improved, he is maintaining the same lvl of brilliance . I don`t like comparing the 2 really ,because they both do good for their clubs. Messi is like all over(CF,ST,CAM,CM) and Ronaldo is usually on the wings.

He's #1 striker in the league and probably #1 in the world imo.

I agree for the moment ! I think he proved himself over 3 different leagues as well. Im sure he`ll be in the BPL doing the business making your statement a FACT!

 

[drekkard]

Falcao being 3rd best striker in the league Alexis?

Surely he's a much better pure striker than Ronaldo and Messi.

He's #1 striker in the league and probably #1 in the world imo.!

Sorry I meant Messi and Ronaldo being better players overall. I don't have any doubts that purely as a striker Falcao is the best one in La Liga and in the top 3 in the world. He's an absolute beast and one of those players everyone would like to have in the team.

I think introducing Alex was more of raw energy he brought more life to the match. I think Tito was right to leave him off and sub him in at the time he did.
!

That's a good point Bebo, though I would prefer to have Pedro, Villa or Alexis playing instead of Cesc when Xavi and Iniesta are also in the pitch. For some reason, I think Cesc only performs well when he comes from midfield and has more references upfront. When the team sacrifices a winger to put Cesc it fails to create chances and loose depth in the wings.

 

[bebo]

That's a good point Bebo, though I would prefer to have Pedro, Villa or Alexis playing instead of Cesc when Xavi and Iniesta are also in the pitch. For some reason, I think Cesc only performs well when he comes from midfield and has more references upfront. When the team sacrifices a winger to put Cesc it fails to create chances and loose depth in the wings.

Well, I could only bring a different perspective I see what you mean .Pedro,Alex n Villa are light weight w/ speed n are better w/ counters.

 

[Review]

Didn't see the game. Was forced to attend a Fiesta Rosa. Heard football won in end thanks to Mou's tactics. Guess he decided to attack Barca for once. I would go w/ Messi and Ronaldo over any other player in the world and not think twice about it. People forget that these two have been on top of the footy world since 2006/2007. Moreover, they show no signs of slowing down. That is longevity and consistency. Maybe we will see the ultimate clash in 2014. That will settle this debate once and for all.

 

[fanolato]

We were having a discussion, if Messi and Ronaldo are the top 2, who is number 3?

We came to the conclusion that it changes very often. Between Iniesta, Xavi, Rooney, Pepe, Zlatan, RVP, Falcao and even Cavani.

 

[Review]

Exactly! Number 3 changes every year.

 

[Damjan]

Pirlo!

 

[gerd]

We were having a discussion, if Messi and Ronaldo are the top 2, who is number 3?

We came to the conclusion that it changes very often. Between Iniesta, Xavi, Rooney, Pepe, Zlatan, RVP, Falcao and even Cavani.

As usual no defenders or GK's are mentioned in those lists. People only consider attacking players while players like Busquets, Xabi Alonso and Khedira are brilliant players who make it possible that those stars are shining.
IMO Xabi Alonso is among the most underrated players.

For the same reason Claude Makelele should have won at least one Ballon D'or. He really redefined the role of the holding midfielder and both Real Madrid and Chelsea suffered when he wasn't playing for them anymore. A player like Zidane understood that very well...

 

[Enzo]

As usual no defenders or GK's are mentioned in those lists. People only consider attacking players while players like Busquets, Xabi Alonso and Khedira are brilliant players who make it possible that those stars are shining.
IMO Xabi Alonso is among the most underrated players.

For the same reason Claude Makelele should have won at least one Ballon D'or. He really redefined the role of the holding midfielder and both Real Madrid and Chelsea suffered when he wasn't playing for them anymore. A player like Zidane understood that very well...

Check my signature, thats the only goalkeeper that ever got it. He had to invent new style of play and perfect it to get golden ball. Almost 100 years and only one golden ball to GK.. Im not sure we will ever see another winner. Buffon WC2006 - sorry Cannavaro was "better". WC 2010 Casillias - sorry Iniesta was "better". Strange that Russian football is "mediocre" but we had best goalkeeper ever, reminds me of Vladislav Tretjak another best goalkeeper in the world.. Can't wait for next Russian superstar GK, we need our Messi, at least on this position (Akinfeev isnt good enough)

Whole DMF position is underrated A LOT!

Makele was great..I agree with you. Its sad to see that if CF just does his job well he might get the recognition, too many winners are attacking players IMHO. Thats why Ronaldo isnt special, he is just good. Messi is special cause he "defines gravity"

 

[Kanouté]

personally I always rated deep-lying playmakers and goal poachers highly above all the other positions. imo, to be successful in these areas demands a really high football IQ and a greater vision than most of the other players on the pitch. and if they also excel at the technical part of the game, to watch them play and do their job on the pitch becomes the greatest joy for a fan like me. unfortunately, I couldn't watch enough of Redondo but I guess he is the greatest DLP in football history as some say and I'd also agree with it having only watched a few compilations of him on the internet. but then, I can't be arsed with a debate about who's the better one among the players of different eras tbh. from the players that I watch week in week out, Pirlo had no 'big competition' over the last decade (Alonso maybe?). except a few years he was often injured prior to joining Juventus, he has always been one of my top 5/10 favourite footballers. it's just incredible to me how many people still underrate the guy even after their successful campaign in Euro2012.

as for ronaldo, it's people's and media's deep hatred against him and how he keeps answering all those same old nonsense stuff, that's what makes him really special comparing to the other superstars. I'd never prefer to discuss about him with a bunch of Barcelona/Messi fanboys, though...

 

[Enzo]

personally I always rated deep-lying playmakers and goal poachers highly above all the other positions. imo, to be successful in these areas demands a really high football IQ and a greater vision than most of the other players on the pitch. and if they also excel at the technical part of the game, to watch them play and do their job on the pitch becomes the greatest joy for a fan like me. unfortunately, I couldn't watch enough of Redondo but I guess he is the greatest DLP in football history as some say and I'd also agree with it having only watched a few compilations of him on the internet. but then, I can't be arsed with a debate about who's the better one among the players of different eras tbh. from the players that I watch week in week out, Pirlo had no 'big competition' over the last decade (Alonso maybe?). except a few years he was often injured prior to joining Juventus, he has always been one of my top 5/10 favourite footballers. it's just incredible to me how many people still underrate the guy even after their successful campaign in Euro2012.

as for ronaldo, it's people's and media's deep hatred against him and how he keeps answering all those same old nonsense stuff, that's what makes him really special comparing to the other superstars. I'd never prefer to discuss about him with a bunch of Barcelona/Messi fanboys, though...

I hope you didn't try to provoke me here mate, cause I was last to mention about Messi and Ronaldo in this thread.

 

[gerd]

I agree with you about Redondo, he's (together with Giuseppe Giannini) my all-time favourite player.

I don't agree with you on Ronaldo, i'm not a Messi or Barcelona fanboy, i just don't like Real Madrid, but this didn't stop from absolutely loving Zidane, Redondo and Xavi Alonso. So perhaps i'm less biased than people think. I have the feeling (and nothing more than that) that Ronaldo could do much more with his enormous raw talent if he would play more for the team. I also have the feeling (and nothing more than that) that Ronaldo has more raw talent than Messi, but that Messi is the more intelligent one...

Just my two cents for what's it worth.

 

[drekkard]

I disagree on the Ronaldo vs Messi comparison, Gerd and Kanoute. I don't mind being called a fanboy. I think I'm quite an objective critic. I have no problems criticizing Barcelona players or praising rivals, as I regularly do in many threads. I'm the one who says Iniesta is greatly overrated even though he's one of the best midfielders around.

And I have watched a long list of amazing players playing weekly for a lot of time. I witnessed players like Maradona, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Zidane live...

So here it goes:

Spoiler

Ronaldo has a lot of power, mainly. But he has a also lot of talent, but the talent he has is confined to shooting, running and heading. He's probably the best killer/finisher I've seen in my life. But he lacks vision and you will hardly see him playmaking, cutting a defense with a pass, or even reading the play. He just lacks this talent. Disable his team and close spaces and he just disappears, because his influence in the game is limited to the last 20 meters.

He's not even a good dribbler actually (something people really ignore), he needs space to develop his incredible athletic play. He's got tons of skills, yes, but mainly focused to run, shoot and finish. Hey, it's an amazing player. I would like him in my team! Anyone would!

But the limits of Ronaldo are quite clear. What he does and what he doesn't. I would rate Ronaldo in my personal ranking of 10 best forwards ever. Without a doubt. But which is the limit of Messi? He has grown each season. Not only in numbers, but also in abilities.

Messi may be less powerful, but in terms of raw talent, how can you say he has less talent... when he's the best assister, dribbler and scorer of the last 5 years? The guy who draws more yellow cards, the one who suffers more fouls, the noe who has destroyed all records of scoring AND ASSISTING in the same season?

To do that, you need to have lots of raw talent. Messi can draw the attention of up to 4 or 5 defenders and then pass the ball to an unmarked teammate. Or he can simply cut a defense apart with a killer pass from deep. Or associate with other players and do intrincate plays of passing. He can shoot hard and he can place the ball smoothly, and he's even a good header (though his size limits him a lot in this department). He does more succesful through passes than Xavi and Iniesta combined (who else does?). And lately he even does the playmaking of the team. He can play as a winger, as a striker, as an attacking midfielder, he can lay deep and do the playmaking...

The "problem" of Messi is that he does this REGULARLY, unlike any other player in history. And people gets used to it.

And then take into account the exceptional skill he has to run with the ball practically glued to his feet. That's an exceptional talent that few players have. Ronaldo will destroy you running, but give Messi a meter of space and he will embarrass you. He's used to have 5 defenders around...

Who in history was able to do that?

The problem of Messi is he does all that absolutely incredible stuff... every week. And people gets used to it. But in terms of talent, I can't think of any other player that could do what Messi does. You can create a highlight reel of Messi only with his assists and great plays that don't finish as a goal. And it will be a long one.

Concluding, I think that Ronaldo is so good that he competes against Messi, but Messi is so great that he competes against history.

Or more succint: Ronaldo has talent, Messi has genius.

 

[gerd]

I'm not sure what to think of this Alex although your post makes sense.
Of course Messi is awfully talented, IMO he is more talented than Maradonna and maybe as talented as Pele.
Concerning Ronaldo: with raw talent, i meant physical talent. IMO he is physically stronger than Messi.

But Messi thinks for the team, with him the team always seems to come first.
Ronaldo is more selfish, one has the impression that his first priority is that he can excell and the second is the team.
The tragical fate of Ronaldo is that because Messi is less selfish, he clearly is the better player of the two. I have the impression that if Ronaldo would primarely play for the team, as an individual player he would come closer to Messi.

I hope expressed myself better this time.

 

[PLF]

I completely agree with Alexis and what he wrote.

 

[Anasie10]

Or more succint: Ronaldo has talent, Messi has genius.

Totally agree with this.

 

[Baxter]

Check my signature, thats the only goalkeeper that ever got it. He had to invent new style of play and perfect it to get golden ball. Almost 100 years and only one golden ball to GK.. Im not sure we will ever see another winner. Buffon WC2006 - sorry Cannavaro was "better". WC 2010 Casillias - sorry Iniesta was "better". Strange that Russian football is "mediocre" but we had best goalkeeper ever, reminds me of Vladislav Tretjak another best goalkeeper in the world.. Can't wait for next Russian superstar GK, we need our Messi, at least on this position (Akinfeev isnt good enough)

Casillas deserves Ballon d'Or 2012. If he or Pirlo won't win it (quite probable, to be honest), Messi will win it this year too, and the whole "Ballon d'Or" concept will definitely die.

 

[Enzo]

Casillas deserves Ballon d'Or 2012. If he or Pirlo won't win it (quite probable, to be honest), Messi will win it this year too, and the whole "Ballon d'Or" concept will definitely die.

Why? Is he much better than Cech or Nouer this season? He is stable great goalkeeper that has a very high chance to save at the most critical moment.

Like Drekkard said - you undervalue Messi cause its "normal", when you grow older and Messi quits football, well then you will understand that he was exceptional and above all SOUL of this Barcelona and this Era, because you wont see someone like him for quite some time.

How can you give "Ballon d'Or" to someone else? How you can miss player that beat Gerd Muller record? That set new record in Champion League? Messi broke over 30 freaking record this season.. every year he becomes better and better, he is football worldwide phenomenon! Best part about him is that he will be next Xavi and can play deep after he hits 30, not like Ronaldo for example, he will start to decline after 30, losing his speed, his body balance, his jump. Messi will shine, no matter where he plays he will always be on top of his game and on top of any opponents game. He has the vision, the pass, the shot, the explosive power.

I think Casillias is best goalkeeper in the world right now, but even at WC2006 where Buffon was outstanding - it went to Cannavaro. I would love Casillias to get somekind of recognition, but Messi is destined to break all records, 4 "Ballon d'Or" in a row is exactly what he deserves.

I know you might hate him or think its all bollocks.. but preferences aside how can you ignore stuff like this, its just out of this world:

Malkin is last season NHL #1

ps. There is many great actors in Hollywood, but not all of them get oscar. If Lord of The Rings quality production would come every year, well then it would get at least one oscar every year, because it is so much better than the rest.

Pirlo is amazing player and amazing person, so is Iniesta and Xavi and Casillias, but we have to choose one, ignoring the best is stupid, but this is just my IMHO!

 

[Aboutreika18]

Balon D'or doesn't normally go to the best outright player. There's always an element of a player who played a large role in a side winning the major honours getting a large bias.

Which is why Torres should get it. Champions League winner and European Championships winner, along with the top-scorer.