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Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

I have a very funny feeling that Quaresma might do extremely well at Stamford Bridge...
Thiery Henry was pretty useless in Serie A too...so was Bergkamp...both were among the best Premiership players ever. So why not Quaresma ???
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

gerd said:
I have a very funny feeling that Quaresma might do extremely well at Stamford Bridge...
Thiery Henry was pretty useless in Serie A too...so was Bergkamp...both were among the best Premiership players ever. So why not Quaresma ???
Click to expand...

henry was just a 21 year old kid when he came in torino (while quaresma is 26)... and even though he really didn't play well, he still did much more than what quaresma did in the last 6 months.

as for bergkamp, sure he didn't perform to his standards here in italy, but he wasn't that bad either. afterall he still scored a dozen of goals (and even more assists), and had a key role in the victorious uefa cup campaign.

i'm not saying quaresma is not going to be good for chelsea.. (no one could tell that.... i mean who could ever tell dossena would have been so poor in liverpool afterall... and who could ever imagine fernando torres and borriello would have been so good for liverpool and samp last season... or di vaio for bologna.... or jeda for cagliari and so on)....quick adaptation times and a good form period can give a big boost... even for an entire season... but nor the form neither the ability of a player to fit in a game system pretty soon, will tell u if that player is really good.

the only thing i meant to say in my previous post was that there is no comparing ronaldo with quaresma, that he's not that top class player many people think he is, that no matter how good he might perform for chelsea in the next 6 months, this won't won't change the fact that he's not even a starter in portugal (as not only ronaldo, but simao aswell is a much better player).

and it won't change the fact that he's a 26 years old man, who still acts on the pitch as zarate does (and zarate is still a silly 21 years old kid).
theese are facts.
but everything else i wrote in my previous post is just an opinion... and as i remarked, not even a reliable one, as i just watched quaresma playing for about 20 matches (considering also his porto experience and and his portugal experience).

so i could be wrong... it happens pretty often afterall.
however i don't think i'm wrong this time. besides i said it was an awful mistake to buy quaresma last summer... and i was right..... i said it was crazy to pay him that much (and to give porto an interesting talent like pelè).... and i was right..... i said quaresma and mancini wouldn't have guarranteed enough consistency to allow mourinho to keep playing that 4-3-3.... and i was right.... and finally i said he would have been gone by the beginning of the next season..... and i'm pretty sure i'll be proved right on this concern too. :P

anyhow, my 15 minutes coffee break just ended... hopefully tomorrow i'll find the time to answer to stef (who brought 2 very interesting topics: cagliari and pato) and edmundo :BYE:
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Amazing stuff Ben :D

I look forward to reading about your thoughts on Cagliari. People are calling Marchetti "World Class", and I know he has been solid, but I don't see where his quality is. Acquafresca IMO was the worst starting CF in Serie A at the start of the season. He has caught fire, and now people are all about him. I'm still not convinced. I like their CB trio...I rate them all about the same. I have been fond of Cossu for the past 2 years, and I have grown to like Conti. Jeda has blown up, and is their best attacking force. I feel they have stepped up their work effort in general, and are believing in this squad. Totally different squad from the 1st 5 matches. Thank goodness they benched Larrivey.

Quaresma isn't among the 20 best wingers in serie a.... that's the gap between those 2 guys.. rosina, pepe, defendi, cerci, langella, menez, palladino, brienza, sanchez, sculli, abate, camoranesi, ferreira pinto, gasbarroni, jankovic, lazzari, mancini, padalino, santana, semioli..... all theese players would deserve to be compared to c. ronaldo more than quaresma, as they're all better than him.
Click to expand...
I can't agree with a lot of these names. I must say Langella IMO is the worst WF in the Serie A. He really has no skills outside of Pace, which isn't better than Quaresma's. I haven't seen Defendi or Cerci enough, but I thought Defendi was pretty worthless from the 1 match I saw him.

Can you talk more about Lazzari? I am about to make a set of stats for him, and have only seen him in less than 100 min. He looked good though.

Santana's injury looked really bad, I hope he can recover :( And how good did Mutu look in his return from an arm injury!!!:D It's nice to see Fiorentina step up their game.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

langella had his troubles this season... he was supposed to play in udine, but suddenly moved to chievo, just a few days before the beginning of the season (wich means that he had no time join chievo's summer tactical sessions).
and appearently he had to deal with some ankle troubles for the whole season.
consider also that the whole chievo team is not going really well (lately they're getting slightly better, but anyhow langella's teammates are not really as good as quaresma's ones).... it's not like he has no excuses for his poor performances this season.
and anyhow he already had at least 3 good matches... wich is already more than what quaresma did......
some might say that it's still unfair compare his job so far to quaresma's job, as quaresma clearely had some adaptation issues... fair enough.... but then again, langella is having his adaptation (and healthy) problems aswell.

i'd also pick defendi rather than quaresma for my team (even taking into account quaresma's adapting issues). defendi is much more "mobile" than quaresma (he easily covers half of the pitch). his shooting ability is remarkable, he has a pretty good dribbling and he doesn't mind playing "simple" when it's necessary.

cerci is almost on the same class of menez. and aswell as menez he might have a brilliant future ahead of him. he is still quite "raw" in terms of positioning and tactical awareness...... but he's already better than quaresma in this department.... and he's also 5 years younger (so he still has a lot to learn, talking about positioning and tactical sense). talking about dribbling, shooting, pace and killer instinct, this kid is already something special.... he actually might become a very important assett for italy...(hoping he'll find the playtime he needs to improve and earn experience).
so far he almost didn't get any playtime cos of his bad injury (he's quite fragile honestly).... and unfortunately i can't see del neri giving him lots of playtime even when he'll be completely fit (wich will take lots of time as, after the surgery, he didn't play for 8 months if i remember well). with padoin lined up on the left, del neri found the perfect balance, and cerci could never provide the same hard work padoin does.... besides, having valdes, ferreira pinto, doni and floccari pushing upfront, del neri couldn't line up another offensive player without loosing the "possession control" at midfield...
i really hope he'll leave bergamo as soon as possible as he really deserves (and needs) a starter spot in serie a... i watched him playing with pisa in serie b and he constantly impressed me every time i watched pisa playing.
last season, in pisa, even though he played just half of the season (coz of his injuries), he still managed to score 10 goals...... and he didn't even play on his natural side!

anyhow i know i was harsh on quaresma (afterall i also remarked i didn't watch him enough to properly rate him and that my opinion about him is not completely reliable). i would understand if someone would tell me that quaresma is "still better than the likes of defendi, lazzari and langella" (he's definitely not better than the other ones i mentioned however).... and i'm aware of the troubles a player can find changing team, league, country.
but let's be honest. he didn't move from portugal to england. even though milano is not the most "italianish" city, serie a is still a "latin-oriented" league (the pace is a compromise between liga and epl, the game is less frenentic than the english one, the players use their brains as much as their legs)....
the formation aswell was perfect for him (at least at the beginning, but then again, the latter formation change was due precisely to quaresma's and mancini's poor performances, so he can't really compain about that)... he didn't have to change his role, neither his approach to the game (as dossena had to do, for instance)....

to make it simple what i meant to say is: the adaptation factor has to be taken into account.... but it can't bring us to say that this guy has the potential to become like ronaldo coz that's just not true (i can't even imagine him ever getting close to camoranesi's standards, let alone the ballon d'or).

gotta go now... no time for cagliari today... hopefully tomorrow. :))
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

this conversation about quaresma made me think it might be interesting to spend a few lines talking about player's technique.

the thing is (and that's probably the reason why i wrote 2 post talking about a player i don't really like... and i don't even really know) there are some dogmas concerning some football football players. some issues u just can't contradict or confute, coz otherwise everyone will consider u a fool.
just take as example the post i wrote a few days ago... i said that essien and palombo are 2 of the (very) few players who i would "put on the same page" of de rossi. I'm pretty sure that most of football fans in europe would take me for a fool for such a comparison.... i mean essien is a god.... while palombo.... well, who the hell is this palombo? :D
everybody seems to be paying attention to essiens qualities, but (almost) no one notices his flaws, his weaknesses.
on the other side, players like palombo aren't noticed at all... why? i don't know but still it happens... and it doesn't matter if palombo proved he's almost on the same class of essien in the last 3 years.... essien is essien, a flawless great player, while palombo is a nobody...

i think quaresma's skills are another dogma: there's one big difference between him and essien however: essien might not be that god many people thinks he is, but still he is an amazing player (aswell as palombo), while quaresma...... :WHISTLE:

i mean, if a portuguese league follower would come in here and tell me "trust me you're wrong, i saw this guy playing week in week out in the last few years and i can tell u he really is a classy player with sheer technique"... then i couldn't contradict him (but i would also hardly believe him, unless is someone whose football knowledge i really trust, like sina or dominic).

but arguably most of us don't follow liga sagres, so it means that most of those people who actually rate quaresma as a top player didn't really see him playing more than i did. wich makes me wonder.... why? what makes people believe he has such a unusual high technique.

it's maybe coz he can do some silly tricks? well i can do them aswell. i can perform a perfect ruleta. seriously u couldn't really see any difference between my ruleta and zidane's or pirlo's ones. is that coz i have a great technique? of course not, infact i'm pretty crappy.
the thing is when i was a kid i used to practice and practice these silly things... and i eventually became pretty good in doing theese silly tricks.
but did theese exercises improved my technique? of course not. because this stupid things have nothing to do with technique. it's just a matter of practice.
technique instead doesn't improve at all.

by playing, by getting familiar with the ball (when u're a kid) u learn to control your body movements, your foot movements, u learn how to take advantage of your innate sensibility.... but it's not like u improve your sensibility, u just learn how to take advantage of it.
because sensibility (wich is the main core of technique) is something u either have it or not. if u have this quality, by playing, u can get in touch with it, u can learn how to put your "touch" to good use.... but if u haven't u'll never "learn" it, u'll never improve it.
by practicing, u can learn how to perform all the tricks u want, but that's not going to improve your touch.

i saw carrozzieri doing a flip flap during a training session. does this means he has the same technique miccoli has? of course not. because it's not from theese kind of things that u can judge a player's technique.
miccoli can stop and receive a 30 meters pass with just 1 single touch of his right foot. he can run as fast as he can keeping the ball at less than 1 meter from his foot. that's talking about sensibility, about touch, about technique.... and it's something u just can't "learn". u either have it or not.

when people talks about di natale's technique, about cassano's touch, about taddei's or camoranesi's technique, they all talk about their fancy moves... about camoranesi's backheels or taddei's aurelio and so on. but that's just unappropriate. because we all could learn to perform an aurelio or di natale's double moves.... we should just keep practicing those moves for weeks and weeks...... but we could never learn to control the ball like this
YouTube - Serie A: Udinese-Palermo 3-1 (2-0 Di Natale)
this kind of sensibility, is something u can't learn, no one could ever teach u to have such a touch.

watching quaresma playing i can definitely tell he has a very good sensibility, but not as good as di natale's or ronaldo's one. and there's no shame in that, as just a few players have such a terrific technique as the likes of camoranesi or di natale or ronaldo, of course.
so it doesn't mean that he's a poor player. it just means that there are some players across europe who are definitely on a different level..... and also that there are many players who are on his same level (or maybe slightly better than him).
players like miccoli, cozza, doni or taddei, they can do everything they want with a ball, they all can stop a 30 meters pass with a single touch or keep the ball close to their foot while running (even better than quaresma). but still u don't see many people comparing miccoli or cozza to del piero or taddei to ronaldo (and that's just talking about technique, coz if we consider their overall qualities, then taddei is much better than quaresma).

and let me tell u one last thing. technique is not effected by adaptation troubles. adaptation issues usually result in a lack of coolness on the pitch. this means passing mistakes, positioning mistakes, a general lack of accuracy.
but it doesn't effect your touch, your sensibility. if u can perform a stop like the one di natale did in that video i posted above, then u will always be able to do it, in every league, in every club and every country. because as i said before this is something innate.

anyhow, before moving to cagliari, Younggun, hope i didn't offend u. it's just an opinion exchange... and i do respect yours :BEER:. infact, maybe in 3 years quaresma will actually become a top player; then u'll come here and tell me "i told u".:))
i'ìm saying this coz i feel sometime people might misunderstand the "mood" of my posts and think i'm attacking them or something like that.... it's pretty normal given the language barrier.
so your thoughts are always wellcome mate ;)

however i promise i won't be talking about quaresma anymore :P and my next post will definitely concern cagliari :BYE:
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

I tell you what, if any of you saw Quagliarella's goal against Napoli at the weekend it was a really great strike, even if it annoyed me a lot to see one of our own sons striking against us...
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Good post Ben.
Technique is not fancy tricks, technique is that goal from Di Natale (and the guy who made the fantastic pass).

I haven't seen Quaresma a lot, so i can't judge him. But somehow i think he will do well in Chelsea because Chelsea need more "flair" players like him...they have too many Essiens (and i consider Essien a better player than Quaresma). They need a player who can pass opponents very often...the only one they have at the moment is Joe Cole and he's injured...
I have to fetch my son from his drum lesson but some time later i will come back to this post and talk about Ronaldo (who IMHO is far from the best player in the world).
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

gerd said:
Good post Ben.
Technique is not fancy tricks, technique is that goal from Di Natale (and the guy who made the fantastic pass).

I haven't seen Quaresma a lot, so i can't judge him. But somehow i think he will do well in Chelsea because Chelsea need more "flair" players like him...they have too many Essiens (and i consider Essien a better player than Quaresma). They need a player who can pass opponents very often...the only one they have at the moment is Joe Cole and he's injured...
I have to fetch my son from his drum lesson but some time later i will come back to this post and talk about Ronaldo (who IMHO is far from the best player in the world).
Click to expand...

On current form I agree but when he's at it only Messi can be argued to be better. He's just got everything in his game Consistency, Pace, Skill, Finishing, Positioning, Aerial ability.

He showed he can adapt his game, 06/07 Ronaldo could blow away teams while 07/08 version would inevitable find himself on the scoresheet with his great positioning and finishing. If he continues to play like he has over the last 2 seasons he will go down as a great.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Well One of the most interesting games I've seen was the Milan and Reggina's game yesterday. Very attack minded Milan who needed to finish the game early and a very defensive Reggina who are playing on counterattacks. I will talk briefly on some of Milan's players.

First I am going to start with Ronaldinho. Well, good, but not even close to his best days. Back in his day we used to wait for him to get the ball to dribble but now the minute he touches the ball he quickly passes to the player next to him. Opposite to the situation that used to occur at Barcelona. He had a moment when he passed 3 defenders but the old Ronaldinho would have finished that with a goal :(( .

As for Beckham, well he is a big threat on the right side with his crosses of course. Brilliant crosses all along the game and corners of course are now one of our strongest points. You can see how the opposing team gets frustrated every time Milan get a dead ball, but also you need a big guy upfront to finish. Pato is not that strong physically and Inzaghi, well he got 2 headers in the time he played.

Flamini, The guy is a fighter and kept running all the game, but attempted very brutal tackles. Plays like Rinno I would say.

Finally, Kaka', not much space for him to move today. He is already restricted when Ronaldinho is playing, He had to deal with 5+ defenders today. Still was really missed when he was substituted. Where is Sheva when you need him.

Kaka looks like he is going to miss the derby :((. Still we have to deal with fitness as basically all our team is going to play in the Brazil Italy friendly. Still expecting an interesting match next week. :))
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

I thought Ambrosini and Jankulovski were poor last night. Jankulovski made a mistake in every 2nd pass he made. Such a frustrating match for us. In the last few games they mark Kaka with 3 or 4 defenders.... he can't do anything.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Good post on Quaresma, I think he's the type
of player that is a "Big fish in a small pond".

Twice now that he has failed at big clubs and not
just any big clubs and it all has to do with his
attitude rather than ability.

The Milan derby will be shown on BBC3 live next
weekend.

I wonder why that is...
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Sabac Red said:
The Milan derby will be shown on BBC3 live next
weekend.

I wonder why that is...
Click to expand...


Just shows how easy it would be for BBC to show Serie A, would be a nice little slot on BBC3 on a Sunday night.

Really annoys me this stupid Beckham circus, as if Serie A didn't exist in england till he went there.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Well the derby is coming and Milan are in bad form I would say. Especially defence. Any idea who is going to partner with Maldini? Bonera is suspended, Nesta is not fully fit, Kaladze I don't know if he is going to be available, and Favalli has disappeared from the squad lately. I don't want to see Senderos partner with Maldini. He will surely get hammered by Ibra since both defenders are slow. Even Favalli is a much better choice for me.

For Ronaldinho, I think this is his chance to prove himself. He will play a more attacking role now that Kaka' is not available and Seedorf can play behind him.

Beckham, well his long high crosses are not working. He needs a big guy upfront, Ambrosini will have to enter the area lots of time I would say. That is why I would say Inzaghi is needed. Pirlo is going to be there which is a big plus for him.

The possible Milan formation is well known except Ronaldinho in Kaka's place. But I would REALLY LIKE to see this formation in the Derby:

---------------Abbiati------------------
Zambrotta--Favalli--Maldini--Jankulovski
---Beckham-----Pirlo---Flamini----------
------Pato---------Ronaldinho-----------
-------------Inzaghi--------------------

But we all know that is impossible with Ancelotti :)
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

I want Flamini to man mark Zlatan. He'll go home with a leg in his pocket.

This article (http://milanblogclub.splinder.com/post/19807303/Un+pò+di+chiarezza+è+doveros), in Italian, sums up exactly how I feel about Milan. I will translate the key points:

The season began with 2 projects in Milan's agenda: Berlusconi's which dreams of Kaka-Sheva-Ronnie up front and Ancelotti's that realistically desires Borriello-Pato with Kaka supporting them.

Ancelotti has always favoured a 'real striker', Borriello. In the second game of the season against Genoa, when we were down 2-0 after starting with Ronnie-Sheva, he put on Pato-Borriello, his REAL project. He wants his team to use a playmaker, a half striker (Pato) and a real striker (Borriello). Much like the Milan of 04' with Sheva-Pippo and Kaka behind.

These are the games where Ancelotti's team started:

Milan 4-1 Lazio: Kaka, Pato, Borriello
Reggina 1-2 Milan: Kaka, Pato , Borriello
Milan 3-0 Sampdoria: Kaka was rested, so Ronaldinho, Borriello, Pato.

At this point of the season, Galliani and Berlusconi wanted Ronaldinho to play, so Pato started making the bench instead of starting.

Atalanta 0-1 Milan: Borriello, Kaka, Ronaldinho
Milan 1-0 Napoli: Borriello, Kaka, Ronaldinho
Lecce 1-1 Milan: Borriello, Kaka, Ronaldinho. - Borriello was injured, so we saw Kaka-Pato-Ronaldinho. Kaka was reduced to becoming a central attacking midfielder, so he wasn't as free and attacking as we all love him to be, like against Reggina at San Siro. Pato was creating space for Ronaldinho to exploit, but Ronnie just isn't as good as Kaka (Speed, finishing, finding space). This Ka-Pa-Ro lasted until november, when Kaka openly said he's being constrained by Ronaldinho... there are interviews about this.

Ancelotti understands Kaka, so Ronaldinho started playing deeper with Kaka being further up... but Ronnie just can't defend or run, so eventually makes the bench. Kaka and Pato explode and now Kaka has 11 goals and Pato 10. Both are free and are playing amazing football.

Therefore, there are 2 important things to consider:
1) Until Borriello got injured, Ancelotti's attacking lineup and project was successful and its clear he never wanted Ronnie. This shows that our administration is a joke, and that without Borriello we have no alternatives, and this was clear against Reggina when we had NO PLAYERS THAT COULD HEAD THE BALL OR SUPPORT PATO. This also limits Ancelotti because he's not getting the freedom to build HIS Milan. Shevchenko? Fucking joke.

2) In my opinion, Ricardo Oliveira isn't the biggest Milan flop, its Ronaldinho. Economically and tactically.

It should be noted that Ronnie has scored some important goals when he is motivated, but the point is that when he started, Pato was relegated to the bench, and Kaka was limited to his abilities. As soon as Carlo benched Ronnie, Kaka and Pato were scoring crazy amounts of goals, justifying Ancelotti's lack of control over Milan.

Therefore its unfair to blame these problems on Ancelotti. He has faults, but its difficult to get results with limited options and players that ruin the equilibrium of the squad. Stats show that when Ancelotti's Milan played, we won convincingly. This is why Borriello is central to our future attack, and that Ronaldinho is a damaging economic signing.
Click to expand...

Completely agree with this post, I was never for the Ronaldinho signing - I was happy, but I knew it wasn't the right thing. We needed a striker and a defender. Ronnie can't play in the same team as Kaka, it just doesnt work. Last weekend against Reggina Kaka was disappointing and so was Pato.... because Ronaldinho started. Ronaldinho would've been useful if Kaka wasn't in the team, but unfortunately Kaka is a god at Milan, so its one or the other.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Well, we need a coach like Mourinho to force what he wants. But I would'nt say Ronaldinho is making a mess since he lately has been always benched and is a very good replcament for Kaka' who's injured and happens very often. Especially for the derby. :DD

But the thing that worries me is that Milan is that Milan keep buying old players and play them as regulars.Beckham is good now since Gatusso is injured but when Gatusso gets's back and Beckham's move becomes permenant , we will have Ambrosini,Flamini, and Seedorf benched, which makes Gourcuff's comeback VERY VERY hard :(( and he has really impresed me lately as he can build a good partnership with Kaka like Seedorf did...
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Ancelotti says he's going to stay, even in the summer. I'm not against this, but I really wish he grew some balls and just told Galliani and Berlusca to back off.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

lo zio, your post about Quaresma was very interesting. ;)
Me, as a portuguese league follower, couldn't agree more with what you wrote. I never rated Quaresma or Nani as a top player, as I did for Simão or Lisandro Lopez. If you watch one of those youtube videos about Quaresma, you'll get impressed but the fact is that he was really irregular in Porto. Even Porto fans spent a lot of time whristling him... First he never had a defensive mentality, he's weak emotionaly, plays often for himself and his trademark move (shoot/pass with the outside of his foot), being unique (nobody uses it as much as he does), gets him so many wrong results before getting the eurosport goal of the week, and it's that one that will fit the highlights that all europe will see.
Being said that, I think he isn't enough competitive to settle in a league like Serie A. His ability to cross and shooting with the outside of his foot with such ease could have been an huge plus for a winger, as a defender could never guess if the was going for the touchline or cross for the inside..but despite other opinions, I don't think he's very good dribling to get the space to do that. I always prefered those guys like Simão that can drible a player with a single touch and then gain 5 meters for being fast.
About him settling in the Premier League..it would be a lot easier with Scolari on the team...Now I think it will be hard. Anyway, I think the english league fits him best (as to most portuguese players) because usually british teams give a lot of space for these players (compared with other leagues). So, Im sure I'll see some great goal or cross by him this season...

Funny that you mention Miccoli..I noticed that you're a Palermo supporter and I was about to ask you about him. It's my favourite player..and one of the best I've seen in my club. I think that, if he wasn't so injury prone, he could play for any of the best teams in the world. GREAT player! Speed, acceleration, nice vision, technique, shooting technique with both feet, nice free taker, charisma, and a LOT of skill!
I still hope he'll join us somewhere in the future before ending his career in Lecce.
For now we have David Suazo, you can see he's a 'monster' but he still has been strugling to score often. It's not easy here...almost every match ends 0-0 or 1-0.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

mls rejects becks bid of 3 million, hahahah what a laugh, us got 1.5 million for bobby convey, does milan think there idiots?
 
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