Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
thank u all guys for your kind words. also to u Zeem, for what u wrote in the man city thread... i'm replying to u in here just to avoid spamming on the man city thread... however i don't really feel like i could teach anything concerning football to anybody. it's just a fair opinions exchange... and there are plenty of great posters in here, like u
. speaking of our "high quality regulars"... where are abhi, sabac and dominic? haven't read anything from them since a while.
Jmg, i don't think we ever discussed torino in here. and actually it's quite weird as there would be lots to talk about. to be honest, torino is a big mistery to me.
i can easily understand why tottenham underperformed so far this season (just too many changes in the starting formation, and not enough patience... ramos should have been given more time imo). i can also understand why man city is underachieving, or, talking about last season, why lazio and sevilla underachieved... but torino (along with samp) is a big question mark to me.
they have quite a good team, with good options for almost every role, and also a very good coach.... but still they can't deliver... and it gets even more weird when u consider how teams like catania and bologna (which have a weaker roster) are doing better than them.
however let's start from the defence.
Jmg said:
First off is their backline. I really don't know if or how injured Diana is, but he NEEDS to be their RB. I saw them try to move him to LMF and Colombo to RB, and it was a disaster. Currently, Diana is out of the line-up and instead of having RB-Diana, CB-Di Loreto, CB-Natali, LB-Pisano like they were playing earlier in the season. Now I feel they are playing just about everyone out of position. RB-Di Loreto, CB-Natali, CB-Pisano, LB-Ogbonna. I thought Ogbonna was a natural(yet unseasoned) CB, and pisano is a natural attacking LB. Di Loreto looks really poor in space, and he is a decent CB. The most surprising thing to me is that Pisano has not looked bad at CB. His positional sense and quickness seem to make up for his lack of stature. I think it was a good idea to stop playing Pratali though. I don't think Dellafiore is the answer either.
i basically agree with everything u wrote. i guess Novellino is still trying (with no success so far) to find the best defensive formula, hence those continuous changes.. the defensive line is definitely their weak spot... but however, individually, the players aren't that bad. i mean, Natali has been fantastic in udine, di loreto isn't that good, but still i feel he could do much better than this, diana is a nice player, but he's not a proper fullback, imo..... the whole defensive package isn't that good, that's for sure, but still it's not worse than atalanta's (at least concerning the cbs... atalanta has very good fulbacks) or than catania's defence.... and yet those defences are doing much better than torino's one.
after 2 very good seasons at empoli, pratali badly disappointed in torino... he just doesn't seem the same player anymore. dellafiore is quality, but he's also pretty inconsistent and often commits silly mistake on the man marking (hence i don't think he was a good signing). i didn't even think pisano was a good buy, as i don't really rate him as a left back.... but then again i was really suprised by his performances as a cb lately (aswell as u, Jmg). of course it's still too early to express a fair judgement, but i guess he deserves a try as a cb (maybe in a 3 men defensive line?).
diana is a good player, no doubts about that. as an attacking sideback he's a consistant threat.... and it's marking is not that bad either. thing is, he badly lacks of positioning (wich of course effects his performances in terms of coverage).
this seems to me a new tendency in italian football... we don't seem to be able produce high quality fullbacks anymore. maggio, ferronetti, pasqual, diana, pasquale, dossena, vitale, balzaretti, de ceglie.... they're all wing backs, rather than fullbacks. they all have great offensive abilities, but quite poor sense of position. i see a lot of great wing backs growing in italy.... but none of em seems to be the new zambrotta or the new grosso, none of em seems to be complete as they are
and that's why i think it might be good for novellino to try a 3-5-2, like napoli's one. a 3 cbs set up (pisano-natali-ogbonna, maybe) with diana on the right and rubin on the left, both lined up 10 about meters ahead of the defensive line.
with this set up torino might get a better coverage of the box (with the 3-5-2 the cbs are much closer each others than with the classic 4-4-2). one of the cbs could (sometimes) detach himself from the line, pushing foward, pressing the ball carrier, with the others 2 staying deep on coverage.
and moreover this way, diana and rubin would be freed from the tipycal coverage duties of a proper fullback and could help the midfield keeping the possession line higher....
the thing is novellino (wich is a good coach i respect a lot) is very, very faihtful to his 4-4-2 interpretation.
and that's a shame to me, as i believe that with this line up diana and rubin could create a great partnership with abate and rosina (their overlaps could be damn effective as both rosina and abate like to cut on the centre).
and novellino also has the midfield to support such a system. barone and zanetti providing some hard work just behind the midfield line, and dzemaili (i've been impressed by this guy too, Jmg) lined up between those 2 guys, just a couple of meters ahead. and they would also have 1 good backup for each of them (samuel, vailatti and corini).
then there's the offensive set up. that's where torino has more options.
having amoruso and bianchi, novellino could choose every possible set up. bianchi and amoruso formed an amazing partnership in reggina... they just complete each others.... but unfortunately, since bianchi came back from his english experience, he doesn't seem the same (great) striker anymore....i'm still confident in his qualities though.
novellino could choose a 2 fowards system as those 2 guys could easily take care of the offensive phase just by themselves. this set up would be perfect for his 4-4-2. but that should imply a less mobile and pushing defensive line, especially on the flanks (wich would mean another rb instead of diana who is too offensive for this system, and that would be a shame). moreover this offensive set up would be "hungry of crosses", so no room for rosina (diana playing as right midfielder would be a better option as, unlike rosina, diana wouldn't cut on the centre and would provide all those crosses amoruso and bianchi need). no problem for abate, who would suit every possible formation imo (abate has a bright future!).
or maybe (and that would be my favourite option), novellino could display amoruso (or bianchi) as a lone foward with abate and rosina rambling around him. this offensive set up would suit perfectly the 3-5-2 system i was talking about before.... it could be like this.
---------------------------------amoruso
--------------------rosina----------------------abate
---------------------------------dzemaili
--------------------barone----------------------zanetti
------rubin-------------------------------------------------diana
--------------------pisano-------natali------ogbonna
i would really like to see torino playing this system. and even though bianchi should be the first option for the foward role, i'd put amoruso. amoruso is a very complete player, and even though he is a supporting striker, he could also play as a cf (with better results than bianchi, imo). afterall he played as a cf in reggina, since bianchi left.
bianchi played this system at lazio late last season (with pandev and rocchi moving around him). it worked pretty well, even though it forced bianchi to do quite a hard work. he had to lend support to pandev and rocchi. he was the benchmark foward, the target of the passes from the midfield, and his duty was to hold the ball (moving the ball possession line) and to distribute the ball to pandev or rocchi, who used to come from behind. that implied that bianchi didn't really score many goals, but still he was quite useful.
i think amoruso could do that job too... maybe not as well as bianchi could... but amoruso wouldn't offer any benchmark to the opposite defensive line, and that would make torino's offence much more mobile, unpredictable and tough to control.... at least imo.
concerning stellone, i admire his determination and hard work... but he just doesn't score enough to be a cf.... and even though he could be a decent solution working on the post (as u suggested), torino has better options (rosina or amoruso himself, with bianchi taking amoruso's spot as cf)... all in all i don't think stellone is serie a material to be honest.
one last note about rosina....he alone would be a good reason to choose the 3-5-2 rather than the 4-4-2. Not only that kid has an amazing talent (touch, technique, dribbling, shot, passing.. he really has it all).. what impress me most is his practical sense and his tactical awareness. he's not the usual talented winger\ss\advanced midfielder, who has absolutely no understanding of what should be his duty on the pitch (like quaresma)... neither he's the usual lazy winger who plays 5 good matches per season.
he always knows what's the right thing to do, when it's time to show his skills, and when it's better to go for a simple play. he doesn't try any tricks or fancy moves unless he realise those moves could be useful. and he doesn't "disappear" for 30 minutes from the match (as many talented wingers in europe often do).... he always gives everything he has for the whole match.
if i could choose between both quaresma and mancini (i mean both of them, altogether) and rosina, i would have no hesitations in picking rosina for my team.
once Sabac called carrozzieri the poor men's materazzi (wich was quite an appropriate and funny label)... well i'd say rosina is the poor men's c. ronaldo.
as u said, it's really a shame to see such a good team not being able to exploit is potential.... i hope novellino will find the right tactical formula before it's too late...... but not until palermo will play vs them, of course
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sorry for the long post.... as always
edit:
zeem said:
Anyway, Do you think gilardino will ever experience a big club again?
who knows. he's still pretty young afterall. but u also have to take into account that it's not so easy to leave a coach like prandelli.
besides, in 2010 the new "tv-rights money distribution agreement" will take place. this new formula could change completely serie a as we know it. it could decrease enourmously the gap between the top clubs and the mid- class clubs (i find it hard to describe fiorentina, udinese, lazio, genoa, napoli and samp as mid class clubs though).... however from 2010 on fiorentina might actually become a real top class club, aswell as milan, inter, juve and roma.... and that would allow gilardino to have another chance on the big european stage without moving to another club
quite an appropriate smiley...
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