Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

compagnoni is my favourite comentator aswell... "RETE! RETE!! RETE!!!"
i love it :))

as for miccoli, he's been on "playstation mode" all season long :WORSHIP:

Jumbo said:
Hahaha I cant believe Milito didnt thank the guy who passed to him for the last goal and just ran off in the other direction!
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lol! didn't notice it before :D
poor palladino. seriously though, palladino really stepped up this season. i wonder if dominic wants him back at juve.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Abou sent me a pm asking me some infos about roma's finanacial situation and the future of the club (after last week rumours about a new owner who MIGHT take over the club).
i though it might be interesting for the whole serie a fan comunity to get some updates on roma's situation, so i'm gonna reply in here.

so here are the facts.

roma's financial situation is quite a mess. during the 90s franco sensi (former roma chairman, father of rosella sensi, who is the current chairman) spent a fortune. he built up an amazing team trying to keep up with the italian big guns (namely milan, juve and inter).

for many years roma (aswell as many other italian clubs, like fiorentina, lazio, parma, etc..) kept spending much more money than they could afford.
they built an amazing team.... and their overdraft grew.

mind u, their overdraft is still nothing compared to chelsea's or man utd's overdraft.
the thing is, banca intesa wants roma to pay off as soon as possible while chelsea's and man utd's creditors have no hurry (at the moment).

so, even though this overdraft is not so big (we're still talking about more than 80 millions euros btw), AS Roma, wich completely changed its "management policies" is trying to pay this debt with the club's incomes.

now this is a terrific task, of course, coz u have to mantain the team competitive, keeping up the growth process of the team (paying the players wages, sign new players, etc...) AND also save a huge share of your annual incomes to pay off the banks (and all of this just with your own funds... no more loans, of course).

the thing is keeping competitive a club like palermo (for instance) costs 5... while keeping competitive a club like roma costs 5000.
miccoli is our most expensive player.... and yet he wuld probably be one of the cheapests in roma.

and mind u, roma today has a pennywise management policy. in the early years of this decade most of serie a clubs were forced to face the consequence of their "uncareful" management. some of them faced bankrupt (like fiorentina or napoli), some others were able to survive (like roma, lazio and parma).
however each of theese teams completely changed its management style and today they all have a very clever and pennywise management policy (just to put things in perspective.... everyone in england keeps raving about arsenal's great "pennywise" management........ well arsenal looks like chelsea, compared to roma).

however, no matter how careful, clever and pannywise their new management is... it's still a top club we're talking about. de rossi, totti, aquilani, mexes, vucinic.... having top class players means paying "top class wages".

now i believe... actually i'm absolutely sure this team reached its best..... it's impossible, for this ownership to go further. the sensi family just can't afford to make the following step (to reach real top class clubs like man utd, chelsea or barca).

actually it's even worse than that. they can't even afford to mantain this club to its current highests standards.
that's becaus every season they have to assign a big share of their incomes to the banks.
and keeping the club to this level will cost them each year more than the previous. just to make an example, next season aquilani's contract is going to expire... in order to keep that amazing talent in roma they'll have to double his wage..
then they'll have to renew mexes contract, then vucinic.

even keeping the same players they already have (without facing new expenses) will cost them each year more than the previous.

however they're not risking bankrupt. roma's managers infact did a great job in the last 6 years and roma can afford to pay the remaining debts.
the big question mark is: will they be able to pay off the banks and keep the club to this level??

the answer is simple: NO, they won't. they're gonna have to weaken the team, by selling some of their big players in order to keep up. and this will have an impact on their league and european achievements, of course.

mexes is not gonna stay... and i believe aquilani too might leave. they're the most profitable assetts (since i can't see de rossi leaving) so they're gonna be sacrificed, in order to restore thge club's financial balance.

the thing is roma fans don't wanna face this sacrifice. when u're a mid class club fan, u're used to see your stars leaving for greener pastures. i wasn't upset for amauri's departure, for instance, coz i know top class players need a top class scenario, and palermo won't ever be able to offer "the big stage" to its players.

but roma is not palermo. roma is a top class scenario. so it's hard for their fans to get used to it.
they already face tough moments, years ago, when the club was close to bankrupt. they already know how hard it is to see your stars leaving (emerson, samuel, zanetti, etc...).
they thought those days were over. they thought that now they were ready for a fresh start....
but the truth is that was just the first step... the debt is still there.... it's gettin smaller each and every year.... but it's not gone yet.

roma's management did a great job in the last 5 years. they were actually so great, tey gave their fans the illusion that bad period was over.

but there's a limit to what a great manager can achieve. u can get some great talents for a cheap price thanks to a great scouting network (like vucinic, mexes, taddei).... u can raise amazing talents thanks to a great academy (aquilani, de rossi, cerci, rosi... or petrucci, who was stolen by manchester utd)...
but once vucinic, mexes, aquilani become great players, after 2, 3, 4 years.. when their contract will expire and u'll have to renew those contracts... well u're gonna need money, a lot of money, coz u just can't pretend aquilani or mexes or vucinic will accept the same wage they got when they signed their first contract...

so a great management can bring to a good level, but in order to make the "following step", u will need loads of cash.

there are many "mistery millionaires" who showed interest in roma in the last 2 years (fisher, soros, some arabian lads, and now the Flick family, from germany).
the point is no one knows (except the sensi family) if this "interest" ever lead to real offers.
the sensi family can't say a thing about it, cos roma is quoted on the stock exchange, so they can't really talk about possible negotiations (to avoid insider tradings charges).

the fans believe those offers actually came and rosella sensi refused. and they're angry about it, coz they would love to see a billionaire to take over, pay roma's debts and buy some "big names".

now i don't know if there were real offers. but one thing is for sure. rosella sensi will always care about roma. and because of this, she won't sell the club unless she gets some guarrantees.

to put it simple she won't sell the club to abramovichs or glazers-like people.
she knows that if a billionaire will take over, he won't pay off the debts.... he will let roma's overdraft grow and grow and grow.
and since she knows which are the consequences of this kind of policies, she won't allow that. she won't sell roma to someone who will make the same mistakes her father did.

i'm a neutral fan and a reasonable person.... and i have all the faith in rosella sensi.
roma fans too used to trust rosella... till this season. coz she did a great job and they know how much she cares about the club..... but now, after such a disappointing season, the fans are getting blinded by the opportunity to become a "chelsea-like" club or a united-like" club....
they probably forgot what they went through.

thank god rosella didn't forget. she knows that is better to be one step behind the great european clubs and preserve a healthy management, rather than becoming giants... who could fall on the ground with a whisper.

it would be great if a millionaire would take over, pay off the debts and build a great squad.... but let's be realistic.... who would pay those debts?
those people who wanna buy roma, they just wanna "pump up" their image. they would buy the next fabregas, the next eto'o, the next kakà. sure they wouldn't clean that overdraft, coz paying off someone else's debts doesn't boosts your image.
and the banks, relieved by their solvency, wouldn't put the same pressure on them they're putting on rosella right now.
so the overdraft would keep growing.....

so abou, long story short, roma won't face bankrupt.... but unless rosella sensi will find a purchaser who will give her guarrantees not to ruin the financial balance of the club, the club is gonna have to face some sacrifices.

sorry for the longest post (as usual :)) )
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

What do you think about the Zarate saga Ben? I think Lotito is doing a great job paying off Lazio's debts in the last 3 years, even if he is unpopular. Zarate is a popular figure, and will be a huge merchandising player for Lazio. I think Lotito knows what hes doing - Zarate can bring in hope for the fans, money for the club, and a strong strike force next year.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

lo zio said:
however, no matter how careful, clever and pannywise their new management is... it's still a top club we're talking about. de rossi, totti, aquilani, mexes, vucinic.... having top class players means paying "top class wages".
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what do you think about Totti? In your opinion, it's normal he always say "I love Roma" but in fact he is the most (over)paid player of team, if i'm not wrong his wage is 5.5 Mln. In my opinion if he REALLY love his team, he HAVE to reduce his wage....Damiano Tommasi some years ago got 1500 €/month (the minimal a.k.a. "il minimo sindacale")... I bet 1.000.000 players will play for 0 € in a team like Roma, why their captain didn't give the right example?

That's the reason I think he's not a "perfect-captain" like Maldini or Zanetti, they have normal wages
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Interesting read Be, (as always).
Coïncidentally the Guardian's very good football podcast talked about Roma and Rosella.
Now that it seems that Roma will not play in the CL and that there is no serious candidate to take the club over (and James Richardson and his Italian correspondent also believe that Rosella does not lie and does what is best for the club) Roma probably wil try to sell the two players with highest wage: Totti and De Rossi...
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Does having your club host the CL final have any financial benefit or will UEFA eat up all that?
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

What's up with reports linking Buffon to Milan? I mean as soon as any player has trouble with his club, he is linked to Milan. But this one seems quite serious.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Apparently we are proposing a trade. Abbiati + Cash. Gazzetta (woah very nice new website design!) say that Juve have sealed the Diego deal.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Very long shot but great deal if it would happen. Same age but way different in terms on skill and leadership. Corriere dello Sport also mentioned it so there might be something.

Can anyone imagine what a team we will have if we get Mexes, Adebayor, and Buffon. Amazing :D
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Milanista said:
What do you think about the Zarate saga Ben? I think Lotito is doing a great job paying off Lazio's debts in the last 3 years, even if he is unpopular...
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i'm not really updated about the zarate deal. i don't know how many millions we're talking about here. i heard a rumour about 20 millions, but i hope that's not true as it would be a rip off. zarate is NOT a 20 million euros player.
it's quite a tricky situation coz now lotito will be basically forced by the fans to buy zarate, even if the arabs would ask for a ridiculously high ammount of money.
however zarate is an interesting player with a very good potential... there's hope he'll turn out to be a great player someday, so, if they'll pay the right price, he will be a good signing.

as for lotito, i think lazio fans should drop roses petals on his path as he's walking. what lotito did is even more impressive than what the sensi family did at roma.
coz lazio's overdraft was huge (can't remember the exact amount right now, but it was something between 200 and 300 millions euros...)
lotito could have bought the club after the bankrupt... then he wouldn't have been forced to pay cragnotti's debts.
but no, he didn't want to speculate on lazio's misfortunes. he didn't want lazio to loose its titles, its company name. he didn't want lazio to be sent in serie c (wich is the first consequence of the bankrupt).
so he bought the club, before the bankrupt and saved it. he took on his shoulders other peoples debts (cragnotti's debts), he arranged an instalment plan with both the banks and the tax office.

and in the meanwhile he was also able to rebuild the team... and what a team he built!

those idiots who don't respect and admire lotito for what he did for lazio, they don't deserve a president like lotito. those fools should have gone through what fiorentina and napoli fans faced..... maybe they would appreciate lotito then.
however (and this must be said) in the last 2 years most of lazio fans finally realised what a great man, great businessman and what a great chairman lotito has been.
it was fucking time!


Leo messi said:
what do you think about Totti?
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Totti might look overpaid today (for the italian standards i mean... 5 millions would be a fair wage for him in england), but u have to keep in mind in wich moment he signed that 5 millions deal with roma. when totti reached that agreement with franco sensi, he was (along with zidane) the unquestioned best player in the world in his role. 5 millions were a fair wage those days.
today the situation is different. he's not the best player in the world (of course), he's not even a midfielder anymore, his legs are a mess and he misses an awful lot of matches every season........
but u don't renegotiate a deal terms until that contract is about to expire. that's how it goes. so, when totti's contract will be about to expire, he will renew it and his wage will be lowered, as it happened with zanetti and maldini.

u mention damiano tommasi.... but how many players in the world would do what damiano did? damiano is unique, he's a kind soul with the purest heart. he is a special human being.... if other people would act like him... i mean... if even a gross person like totti would act like him, then damiano wouldn't be special anymore, don't u think? :))

and btw mate u're not really comparing an uncouth person like totti to maldini and zanetti aren't u? i mean they share the world class status, the icon status, but that's all. in terms of class, style, composure, Paolo and Javier are on another planet.

but that doesn't mean he's not the right leader for roma (u don't have to be classy to be a leader.. i mean take a look at keane at manchester utd). the only thing that matters is how your teammates look at u. being a captain is not a matter of image; is a matter of charisma and respect. and that's why the players are the only ones entitled to pick their own captain.

and the fact that totti wanna save as much money as he can (before his carreer will be over) doesn't mean that he doesn't love roma :))


Gerd said:
Coïncidentally the Guardian's very good football podcast talked about Roma and Rosella.
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good british football journalism? that sounds new to me! :P
do u mind sending me a link to that specific podcast, Gerd? it would be nice to hear a british football journalist who actually knows what he's talking about, for a change.

anyhow, if they actually said roma is gonna sell totti and de rossi, i don't think they deserve much of your trust. infact it's absolutely impossible that those 2 guys will leave.

totti is an icon in roma... he's pretty much like the colosseo... and even though his ankles too are as messed up as the colosseo, he's not going anywhere. he will follow the same path of Conti, namely end his carreer and become a manager (some kinda sport director)... wich is pretty much the same thing juve will do with del piero (on this concern, i can already see del piero becoming a great sport director... but can u imagine totti in that role?.... LOL!

anyhow roma didn't sell him when their financial situation was critical (6 years ago)... there's no reason to sell him now.
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i do realise i wasn't very accurate in my previous post. it's not like roma has to sell some of their best players in order to pay off those debts actually. they already have the cash they need, and they will have no problems in respecting the terms of the instalment plan they reached with banca intesa.
the thing is the club structure reached its limits. if u wanna be faithful to a financial strategy that allows the club to fund itself, then u can't go any further than that.
roma reached a treshold. in order to reach the following level (man utd, chelsea, barcelona level), they should abandon their strategies and follow those clubs strategies.
Imho it would be a shame.
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so it's not like the club desperately needs money. the thing is they will hardly be able to afford to renew all those contracts (as many of those players will obviously ask for higher wages).

as for de rossi.... that's even more impossible that totti leaving. de rossi has the same bond with the city, the club and the fans, that totti has. like totti (a few years ago) daniele is today the unquestioned best player in the world in his role (wich means that by selling him, roma would loose much of his value, talking about possible investitors).
he's gonna spend his entire carreer in roma and will get totti's captain armband as soon as francesco will retire.

mexes or aquilani are much more likely to leave.;)

YoungGun_UK said:
Does having your club host the CL final have any financial benefit or will UEFA eat up all that?
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nah mate, as stefano said, roma and lazio won't get a cent.:))
on this concern, i'll never understand what the hell were uefa people thinking when they picked roma to host this final....
i just can't understand what's the logic behind this decision.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

zio,you've written a great history of Roma's debts but you made a mistake talking about the current situation:Roma isn't in debt (not more than other clubs),Italpetroli is the society that has lot of debts.
AS Roma is the only brand of Italpetroly that actually goes well,that's why banks are so interested on it:it is the only "place" where they can find money from Sensi
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

actually i didn't make any mistake Gigi :))
yes roma's overdraft is no big deal... but i already pointed it out by remarking roma is not risking bankrupt and by saying that roma doesn't need to sell its players to pay off the debts, but because their financial strategy (the financial self-sufficiency of the club) won't allow them to renew all the contracts which are going to expire in the next 2 years. ;)

and yes, italpetroli plc (wich is the sensi family oil company) is facing some serious financial troubles, but the italpetroli overdraft will hardly have any impact on the club

infact even though both the oil company and the club belong to the same holding, they are still 2 different companies.
that means the sensi cannot pay italpetroli's debts with roma's incomes (as that's not allowed).
and they can't even sell the company to the bank (on this concern i noticed i mentioned banca intesa... that was a mistake as the sensi creditor is unicredit bank).
because the sensi family is the major shareholder of AS Roma, and they're not allowed to sell their shareholding without the acceptance of a specific (and high) percentage of the entire shareholders community (i'm trying to make it as simple as i can).

so they can't pay italpetroli group's detbs (i mean the holding's debts) by giving AS Roma to the banks.
but they could sell roma to someone else (with the assent of the others shareholders) and then use those money to pay unicredit bank.
and infact unicredit put a lot of pressure on the sensi family, providing them some purchasers who might be interested in AS Roma.

but as i said before, the sensi family still didn't find someone they feel they can trust, someone who will guarrantee to preserve roma's future and roma's financial stabillity.... and they won't sell the club until they find a serious person (or group).

they would sell their other assetts rather than compromising roma's financial stability.
and infact that's what they already did. they already sold their shareholding in the "aeroporti di roma plc", and Rosella said many times that if the italpetroli group won't be able to clean its overdraft, then they'll solve the situation once for all, by property disposals.
the sensi family infact isn't focused just on the oil industry. they're also in the property market.
they have this huge compound in roma they are ready to sacrifice (about 200 millions euros value).

this compound is like a safety jacket for roma... even if the italpetroly group would sink, roma wouldn't suffer any consequence, coz selling that compound, the sensi family would be able to clean its overdraft. :))

Dominic said:
@ zeem Keep imagining
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oh come on u lazy dutchman!!! :RANT:
the battle between juve and milan for the 4th spot, the upcoming big match, the troubles in the dressing room, the future of ranieri, the rumours about juve's coach next season, the diego signing.......

all this stuff to talk about... and u think u can get away with a simple one liner!?!
get back here and drop your thoughts!
:DD
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

lo zio said:
the battle between juve and milan for the 4th spot, the upcoming big match, the troubles in the dressing room, the future of ranieri, the rumours about juve's coach next season, the diego signing.......
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Simple as that, I think:

- Milan will get the 2'nd place and Juve will have a hard time maintaining the 3'rd :D.
- Milan will crush Juve due to the totally diffrent forms both are passing through. But this will be the first game for Milan in this form against a top team. They always have good times were they score 4-5 goals a game against not so big teams, but that soon sheds. Also would be nice to know if Flamini took Jankulovski's spot as full back.
- Well it's a phase every team passes through, kinda funny happening this late with 4 games left and many changes expected to happen in Juve. Look to the future. I mean Juventus will be just mad to lose their CL place.
- Ranieri will be sacked
- Spaletti will follow.
- Diego is 100% a Juve player. He and his agent said it. Still Bremen and Juve have to sort out the fee which will be after the end of the season as Werder have a UEFA cup final which Diego will not feature in. More restraining for Giovinco.


Leo Messi said:
it seems a man called Angelini is interested to buy Roma
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If I am not wrong he is a rich Italian. Also some German and American guys interested. We'll just have to wait and see.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

I got the comparison from another forum but looking at the current lineups in the Milan v Juve game is quite depressing compared to how they were a few seasons ago.

The lineups tonight are:

Milan: Kalac, Flamini, Maldini, Favalli, Zambrotta, Beckham, Pirlo, Ambrosini, Seedorf, Kaka, Inzaghi.

Juventus: Buffon, Grygera, Legrottaglie, Chiellini, De Ceglie, Camoranesi, Poulsen, Zanetti, Marchionni, Iaquinta, Amauri.

Compare that with:

Milan 04/05 : Dida, Cafu, Nesta, Stam, Maldini, Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf, Kaka, Crespo, Shevchenko.

Juventus 05/06 - Buffon, Zebina, Thuram, Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Camoranesi, Emerson, Vieira, Nedved, Ibrahimovic, Trezeguet. (As well as Del Piero and Mutu on the bench)

:(
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Buffon and Kalac are 2 totally different keepers
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

The problem with Juventus is obviously the manager that doesn't want any more big names in his team, too bad the big names he already has are over 30 and aren't really improving imo.
They should do an all around new era, hire a good manager, make some solid transfers, and be the Juventus that has 28 Serie A titles (sry if im mistaken) and was a real threat in the Champions League.
Milan is barely the same, they buy players that aren't really young, and build a quite bad "Galacticos" squad.. Having a first team with players over 30 and 1 with 40 years old, reveals a complete lack of youth to cover the empty spots. Who will replace Maldini, Pirlo, Seedorf and the other grandpas on that team? Serie A lost his 1st place in the Best league in the World because of that, they kept using players of 30 years old, and didn't come up with a solution for it. Nowadays Serie A is just has much fun to watch as the Portuguese League, except for the big names, some boring games, some good too but the bad ones outnumber the good ones, old tired teams Big 3 strugling to win an easy match cous they aren't competitive enough, etc. And BTW Inter didn't win cous they were better then AC or Juve, they won cous Ac Juve and the rest of the teams were beyond awful, so you can say that every team is inconsistent in Serie A, Inter won cous they were a bit less inconsistent then the rest of them. This is my point of view.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

The stuff you say about Milan and Juve are true, but re-building isnt a one summer job. We've slowly started.

Attack we are already rejuvenating: Pato (19), Borriello (25), Inzaghi (35) - but he still scores, Shevhenko (Loan... never plays anyway)

We have Paloschi out on loan - he's 19. We also are linked to strikers such as Adebayor who is around 25. But anyway, our attack would've been different if Borriello was fit this season... he's what we lack. A strong center forward.

Midfield: Flamini (24), Pirlo - doesnt rely on pace to do what he does, so he's got like 2-3 more years of top level football, Gattuso - injury (31) and Ambrosini (31) - both offer aggression and aren't slow players - still playing very well, so no need to stop, Kaka (26) - no need to explain, but injury plagued season, Ronaldinho (28) ... no one knows whats happening with him...

Gourcuff is out on loan, but theres a chance hes back.... hes 23. Abate is out on loan and will return, young winger.

Emerson left, Seedorf is the weak link but the only reason he's here is because Ancelotti loves him and Ronaldinho doesn't offer the link between midfield and attack. But Seedorf can play well when he turns up.

Defense. Maldini and Nesta are out of the team, and Favalli will remain as a tutor/backup. Zambrotta (31) still has it, Bonera (26) is reliable and Jankulovski (31) isn't necessarily a starter anymore.... but is a weak link. We already signed Thiago Silva (24) who is highly rated and we are linked to some strong defensive talent such as Agger (23), Mexes (27), Kjaer (20) and Felipe (24).
We've also got Antonini (26) and potentially a new full back.... Also Astori is probably returning.. hes around 22..?

So potentially:
GK - Abbiati (32)
RB - Flamini (24)
LB - Zambrotta (31)
CB - Mexes (27)
CB - Silva (25)
CM - Pirlo (31)
CM - Gattuso (31)
CM - Gourcuff (23)
AM - Kaka (26)
AM - Pato (19)
ST - Borriello (25)

This is all speculation... but I don't think youth necessarily means results. Look at Man Utd's defense and midfield core... its full of experience and middle age. its about hunger and motivation... something we're lacking of late... and injuries dont help. We also need to find consistency. Look at teams like Arsenal... inconsistent season due to the inability to maintain motivation and momentum....
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Who do you think will win the Coppa Italia. It's probably the most important match left in the season in Italy now! There are a few other things, like which team will go down (Bologna / Torino etc) and the race for the last CL or Europa League place (via Serie A) - but this is the most important Coppa Italia final for years! I hope it's a good game both teams are high quality and have players that are exciting to watch in Europe!

Zaraté is a great player to watch!
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Neoexodus said:
Nowadays Serie A is just has much fun to watch as the Portuguese League, except for the big names, some boring games, some good too but the bad ones outnumber the good ones, old tired teams Big 3 strugling to win an easy match cous they aren't competitive enough, etc.
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i think if you watched some games that arent between the big teams you'd have a different opinion, serie a is a great league to watch. the big 3 or 4 are weaker these days but the rest of the league is very entertaining, if i have the choice between a serie a match or any other league ill watch the serie a unless its united.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Serie A's middle and lower sides are the best in Europe but the top sides aren't at the level that "Top" sides should be at. If the top sides can improve to the level then the league will probably be the strongest, At the moment I think PL is the best league but Serie A and La Liga are good also.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

it depends how you look at it, if you consider being the strongest league the one with the most balance and entertaining football team to team than serie a is probably it, maybe la liga(i prefer italy). if you think the strongest league is represented by its best teams only, pitting the best teams of the PL against the best teams of the serie a then england is stronger.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

got to say it was kinda refreshing to read your points young gun and phat. :))

however i'm pretty sure neoexodus point of view (wich, and there's no need to say that, is completely wrong) reflects pretty well the opinion of the majoity of the people out there. and in some way neoexodus post just made my point...
ME about 2 weeks ago said:
so bottom line, to judge the quality of a league u don't have to look at the number ot top class players (inter and juve have their good share of star players.... but still siena, wich has no stars at all, plays a much more beautiful football than those teams), u don't have to look (just) at the top teams.
u must look at the average quality of the football displayed by all the teams. there's no other way.
we faced a financial downfall, we faced an "image" downfall (the empty stadia, the moggi scandal etc..)...

but the things that matters most, the quality of the football, grew up a lot.

the problem is most of the people outside italy won't ever notice it. because they just watch the italian top sides (wich are definitely weaker).
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that's the point. let's take last week for example. i'm sure 10 foreign broadcasters out of 10 would have shown the milan-juve derby.
that match was soo boring. just horrible (at least for the first 30 minutes... after half an hour i turned of the tv and went out)

but then again we ALL knew how poor that match would have been don't we?
infact if someone last week would have asked me "hey which match should i watch this week?" i would have replied...

samp - reggina.... mazzarri finally found the right formula to display that amazing team sampdoria is and this match vs reggina is gonna be great as, samp will have to test his weapons for the upcoming coppa italia final, while reggina will be forced to push, coz they badly need the 3 points to survive.
lazio - udinese. udinese is finally out of its long bad period (and that's already a good reason to prefere to watch udinese rather than any other team in europe except barcelona, genoa and manchester united).
lazio will line up a b team to preserve the starters for the coppa italia final, wich means that those guys will give everything they have to get a chance to actually play in that final.
cagliari - roma. no reason to explain why this was supposed to be a great match ;)

but, for God's sake, do not watch the milan-juve game!!!

those 3 games (as expected) were amazing. but how is neoexodus supposed to know that?
how is neoexodus supposed to know that the 2nd and the 3rd most attractive teams in europe this season were 2 italian teams.... 2 teams which won't even reach a champions league spot at the end of the season (wich says a lot about the quality of the league imo).

infact what really surprises me is not our friend neoexodus here, what surprises me is to see that many other people (like dominic, sina, abhi, jason, younggun, phat j22, abou, sabac and many others) were able to get a good idea of what serie a is about today.

neoexodus, sorry for using u as an "example". it was not really classy. but mind u, i'm not having a go at u ;)
and in some way, i also replied u. it's not about your point of view being wrong. is more about the informations u're basing your point of view on. those info are clearely blatantly insufficient. and that's why u came up with so many unagreable points (not only about the league, but also about juve, i'd say).
if u don't have enough infos, enough knowledge, u won't be able to put things in the right perspective.

if i would watch just the top 4 epl clubs, then i would definitely consider the epl as the best league in the world... (and by a huge gap). but if i would watch all the remaining 16 teams and not the top 4, then i would probably rate the epl as one of the the worst leagues in europe, as having so many good players, and yet playing such a poor football is inexcusable.
it's just by watching the whole league that u get "the big picture."

and serie a is exactly the opposite.
u watch almost every team outside the top 4 (i'm saying "almost" coz torino, lecce and bologna were pretty disappointing this season... while last season even the teams who got relegated displayed some nice football) and u think "holy crap this is football's heaven"... then u watch the top 4 and the perspective changes.
of course the truth is in the middle, as always. perspective :))

and perspective tells me that it's impossible to establish wich is the best league in europe right now, as each of the top 5 has something more and also something less than the others.

u wanna have a complete football experience (high individual technique, unmatchable tactical variety, variable tempo of the plays)? then watch serie a. but if u wanna enjoy football at its best (wich means the best teams playing the most advanced football), then serie a is not the league to look at anymore.

u wanna watch football at its finest? then watch man utd, chelsea and liverpool.... not the whole league though, just those 3 teams.

u wanna enjoy some cracking plays? then follow la liga. but don't watch a liga game right after a serie a game or a premiership game, coz then u will notice that most of those nice spanish plays are allowed by the spanish "calm" mentality (wich is allergic to pressing and to any form of tactics).

u wanna enjoy the most exciting race for the title in europe? then bundesliga is the league to follow. always.

this is definitely a nice era to live for a football fan :))

oh and btw Edmundo, u have no idea how high are my expectations on the coppa italia final :))
i might be wrong, but i got the feeling that lazio-samp match is gonna be fu***ing immense!
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Not much I could add to the fantastic post above from Lo Zio, but what he said about the big matches is very true and this applies to some big teams in the Premiership (example) as well sometimes. A lot of the smaller clubs play fantastic football and people all over the world dont know a thing about it. Majority of the fans I know have seen Milan, Inter, Juve play and a lot have seen Inter play against Man Utd for the UCL and they all said Inter were playing boring football.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Hmm, what about the rumors of Diego to Juve? Is it done?

Also, are any Italian teams interested in Dossena? Can't see him having a future at Anfield with the emergence of Insua. I take he's still highly rated in Italy?
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Great post Ben!! Another fine read. I must say, I have a friend who I've been trying to convince to watch a Serie A match with me that is not a top club(as I have informed him that the best football is not with the top 3). But whenever he gives it a chance, it is like the 1st half of Lazio v. Udinese...which was a snooze fest. At halftime he asked me for 45 minutes of his life back, and then left. Then in watching the awesome action in the 2nd half, I couldn't convince him that is was as good as it was. I really wish people especially in the States were able to just casually have a football match in the background. But since they play at poor times for me usually, I end up recording them, and have to watch them in an area where all the focus in on the match. So if it is a stinker....there is more emphasis on the fact :(

But for me it is fine, because I take notes for stats purposes anyway. Just wish I could convince more American fans there is more to Milan, Inter and Juventus matches.

Side note: I noticed that there is a major problem with the word "Intent" being used to describe any sort of ruling in a sport. With fouls or hand balls. It just tends to seem very subjective and difficult to really get emotionally involved in result when it can come down to a man's opinion in a split second that can determine the result. It is okay for me, because I generally enjoy watching the game disregarding the result. But with the most important matches of the year about to occur, I'd hate to see a team relegated because of a lousy call in the last fixture. How many goals would Milito or Gilardino have had this season if not for incorrect offsides calls? When will football go to having robots and machines making the calls like American sports have :P

Last point: I think the tie for Torino vs. Bologna was an aweful result. It was their best opportunity to get 3 points, and might now seriously be looking at relegation. Especially considering their terrible form. The race for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place is really intriguing. Genoa is in 5th place but play 3 of the bottom 4 teams. Which really should be a minimum of 6 points. Fiorentina had a big win on the road vs catania and are now only 3 points behind Juventus. But they end their season vs Milan I believe.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Abhishek said:
Hmm, what about the rumors of Diego to Juve? Is it done?

Also, are any Italian teams interested in Dossena? Can't see him having a future at Anfield with the emergence of Insua. I take he's still highly rated in Italy?
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It said on Gazzetta.it that we have signed him, however, Juventus cannot announce the signing officially due to their presents in the stock market, so they must wait until May 31st I think.

Diego's representatives have said Diego has signed for Juventus, however, the newspaper BILD in Germany claims he will sign for Bayern Munich.

But if the reports are true, he'll be coming for a 2m per year contract and the transfer fee being around 20m Pounds.
 
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