Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

hey Zio, what formation have Palermo been playing this season? Has it been something like a 4-3-1-2, with Nocerino on the R playing as DMF, and Bresciano playing wide on the L?

As for champions league places, I'd rather see Genoa qualify. Wouldn't mind the Viola, but they had their chance last season, and Genoa play better football. However they will need a lot of new players to come in, I don't see the likes of Rubinho, Juric (too old, too slow) and Sculli going far in Europe.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

rfU said:
hey Zio, what formation have Palermo been playing this season? Has it been something like a 4-3-1-2, with Nocerino on the R playing as DMF, and Bresciano playing wide on the L?
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yep, it's precisely a 4-3-1-2
that's the midfield shape

-------------simplicio

-bresciano----liverani-----nocerino

as for the dynamics though, this setup is something pretty unique.
a creative central midfielder playing as an advanced midfielder, a proper advanced midfielder playing as a..... well i can't really define bresciano's role.... maybe ballardini just invented a new role :))
and the upfront situation is even more surprising, as we basically hace no CF. cavani plays a role "a la rooney", while miccoli, well miccoli does what he does best: magic.

with cavani and miccoli continuously swapping their positions, bresciano and simplicio doing the same, and the 2 sidebacks pushing and overlapping for the whole damn match (mind u this doesn't happen each and every week, as we have our bad days aswell, like yesterday), from a tactical point of view, palermo looks like a well-organised chaos.
infact u can't really get an idea of what the hell is going on on the pitch, until u go to the stadium, and u get the chance to watch a match without being forced to follow the tv cameras point of view. it's just then that u realise there's a logic behind that chaos.
i remember the first time i saw ballardini's line up, i thought "this man is either an idiot or a genius".

As for champions league places, I'd rather see Genoa qualify. Wouldn't mind the Viola, but they had their chance last season, and Genoa play better football.
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yep but that's not really fiorentina's fault.... how many teams in europe play better football than genoa? barca? yes. man utd? yes (but not on a regular basis)..... and then? who else?.

i wasn't able to follow ligue 1 this season, but concerning epl, liga, bundes and serie a, i cannot think about any other teams which played (on a regular basis) a better football than genoa.
mind u, i'm not talking about the strenght of the team here. there's no doubt, real madrid, liverpool, chelsea, arsenal, inter are better team than genoa.
i'm just talking about the quality of the football. the beautiness of the shape of the schemes designed by gasperini is just unbelievable, and the precision showed by his guys in applying his schemes is remarkable.

fiorentina's football this season wasn't as exciting as last season, that's for sure. but as i said last week, prandelli went through a revolution at midfield. the departure of liverani amplified the pressure and the responsaiblities of montolivo and kuzmanovic.... and, no matter how good they are, those guys are just 2 young to carry an entire midfield on their little shoulders.
this was an experimental season for prandelli and fiorentina (their first season with no playmakers). and even though their football wasn't as delightful as last season, their results speak for themselves.
and however, i think prandelli is very close to find the right formula to display fiorentina's midfield (wich was they key to their high quality football). :))

However they will need a lot of new players to come in, I don't see the likes of Rubinho, Juric (too old, too slow) and Sculli going far in Europe.
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gotta disagree with u on that mate. sure they won't go far in europe next season (assuming they'll actually reach the 4th spot), but that won't be coz they're not good enough. that will happen because they won't be experienced enough to handle a champions league campaign.
and anyway that's cool. i mean they're not supposed to go through the group stage (for the reasons i explained 2 pages ago, talking about fiorentina's champions campaign this season).

and, concerning the signings, yes, they definitely need new players to come (not too many though, as that might have a bad impact on the dressing room... plus u don't wanna restart everything from the beginning, teaching your schemes, your football to 7,8 new signings).
and definitely those new signings must be better than the current players (that's the whole point of the growth process).

but not because the current players aren't good enough. afterall we all saw what theese guys can do. as a collective they're "top class". but also from the individual point of view they have nothing to complain.

rubinho and sculli are definitely champions league material.
yeah rubinho is no buffon, and he's not even as good as the likes of cech or casillas or julio cesar....
but the truth is that those monsters don't reprensent the champions league standards. they are the best u will find. 6 or 7 top class keepers.... out of 32 teams (those who partecipate to the champions league).
and as a matter of fact, most of those remaining 26/25 teams have goalkeepers who are on par, or maybe slightly worse (or slightly better) than rubinho. so he definitely deserves to be there imo.

the same goes for sculli. he's not a top class winger, not in europe, neither in italy. but he is (much) better than many wingers we see each year in champions league. sculli might not be top class, but he's definitely above average. and performance-wise, he's been one of the very best wingers in europe (not just in italy) this season.

coz at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter how good u are. it's all about how good u actually perform.
i can count many wingers who are "overall" better than sculli in italy.... the thing is none of em performed as good as sculli did this season. camoranesi and di natale (just to make an example) are just on another class than sculli.... but throughout the season, sculli played better than them (and that's why u see sculli and not di natale in my top 11 in the last page).

the same goes for juric. i mean sculli is not top class, but he's a very good player.... juric, well he's been below serie a's average for most of his carreer.
and looking at his age u would think he's way over his prime. but the simple facts are that juric has been fantastic in the last 2 seasons. he formed an amazing partnership with milanetto last season, and an amazing partnership with motta this season.

yes he's old, but age means nothing when u keep playing that well, when u play better than most of the other teams (younger) counterparts.
and yes, he's slow. but pace is by far the most overrated factor in football nowadays. u can be much "faster" than a more pacey player, as long as your reading of the plays, your positioning and your timing are good.
xavi and liverani are infact as slow as juric (actually liverani is even slower), but still, u wouldn't say they're not champions league material just coz they're slow. ;)

last week mourinho said something quite agreable, concerning cambiasso. he said he the fastest player he ever coached.
by saying that, he wanted to look smart, to surprise the journalists. he probably expected them to say "wait a minute how can u say cambiasso is faster than... essien, for instance".
then he would have come out with his magnetic smile, saying, "it's elementary, my dears and slow witted friends, u see the pace in football isn't just determined by how fast are your legs, but also by how fast is your brain".

thing is, the poor thing still didn't realise italian journalists are as tactically educated as he is... and so when a journalist replied "yeah, of course with that positioning and timing cambiasso has, he would be fast even without moving himself".... mourinho probablt felt like an idiot.

anyway, long story short, a couple of days ago i discovered (thanks to the link u sent me in a pm ;) ), taking a look at Gazzetta's stats, that juric is the 3rd best assistman in the league!!:CONFUSE::SHOCK:
this says it all imo. there's no question juric is not on par with the likes of aquilani, montolivo, dessena, migliaccio, guana, kuzmanovic (i'm taking as examples different kinds of central midfielders here).... etc...
but, performances-wise, he's been better than them this season. and at the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is the performance. i'm pretty sure liverpool fans don't give a damn about what dossena did in the last 3 years... their only concern is dossena's performance now (just to make another example).

btw welcome on the serie a thread, rfu! :BYE:
i'm sure u're gonna enjoy the conversation. besides we had no inter fans in here (till now) and that was no good at all :))
and sorry for forcing u to read such a long post, but if u'll become a regular here, u'll probably get used to it :P
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Wow Ben!!! Hell of a good read. :D

I must say I am obviously pulling for the Viola for the 4th spot ;)

I've never seen so much written about Juric, Sculli and Rubinho. It's really nice to hear someone discuss them to that level of depth.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

jmg721 said:
I've never seen so much written about Juric, Sculli and Rubinho. It's really nice to hear someone discuss them to that level of depth.
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thanks mate, but to be fair, that was everything but deep. infact, despite the lenght of the post, i just said sculli is a good player (and juric a below average player) who performed extremely well.
i didn't really analyse any of their features deeply (lucky u, as, given my standards, that would probaly bring me to write an elephantine post :P).

as for the 4th spot race, being a neutral, i think genoa need that 4th spot more than fiorentina.
even without champions league, Della Valle will keep making fiorentina a stronger team next season.
while for Genoa it will be very important to get champions league money and visibility, in order to keep growing. they are pretty much in the same situation fiorentina was last season, so the champions league will be very important for them to step up. :))
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Speaking of Halfredsson... anyone see his goal against Juve? Ceravolo's performance was awesome.

YouTube - Reggina Juventus 2 2 sintesi rai barillÃ* del piero hallfredsson zanetti highlights 26 04 09

At around 2:38

Anyway, about my beloved Milan..... when Ancelotti plays those who are in form and fit, we seem to demolish teams. Flamini is AWESOME..... Ambrosini too - come on Milan... offer him a new contract!

But what I want to talk about mainly is Ronaldinho... he has become a toy. We use him to woo the fans and seem to only stick him on in the last 20 minutes of matches. He doesn't move much and seems to accept the fact that Kaka is better and more important than him... so he runs around and doesn't have much initiative. I would've liked to see him start ahead of Seedorf to see how he would play in a match right from the beginning.

I was a little disappointed by Palermo. The first penalty should have been an FK, but even before/after that, it was all Milan. We had incredible confidence and calmness, circulating the ball like the Milan of 2006. It was full control. Ambrosini was protecting Pirlo and running literally everywhere, allowing Pirlo to pass like he used to.

Flamini's initiative is just crazy! He runs down the line like a baboon but knows exactly where to be... although he can improve his crossing a bit.

Ben, that young Abel Hernandez guy looks promising. Quite confident on the ball when he came on.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

It's really a shame not see this Milan team in the CL. Our midfield is simply amazing and the only place we don't need reinforcements in. Pirlo got his form back, Ambrosini is a midfield monster, he defends, attacks, scores, simply outstanding. Beckham who is a temporary solution in midfield until we get the Rino back.

IMO, from next season, Seedorf should accept his sub role I would say. As for Ronaldinho, well if I am not wrong, he used to play more at Barca. You can totally see the difference when he plays from the start and when he enter 70 minutes into the game. I think he might leave as what will happen to him next season when Kaka-Pato-Striker play together.

As for the recent results, I will wait to test ourselves with the likes of Juve, Roma,...
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

milanista said:
Anyway, about my beloved Milan..... when Ancelotti plays those who are in form and fit, we seem to demolish teams
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if only berlusconi and galliani would let ancelotti do his job and get the players he NEEDS (instead of those players they want), milan would be back again a top club in the blink of an eye..... actually if they would have not interfered, the club would have never faced this downfall in first place.

and now it seems they might let him leave.... it's true what they say. u don't know what u got until u loose it.
i hope it won't happen, but if carletto will actually become chelsea's new coach, those 2 will regret it soooo much.

Ben, that young Abel Hernandez guy looks promising. Quite confident on the ball when he came on.
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yep, his touch is really sweet. and there's hope he'll turn out to be as good as he seems to be :))

btw zamparini said he will build a champions league worthy team next season.... and he also said that sabatini told him he expects to turn palermo into a title contender in 3 years........
LOL!!! :FAIL:

i guess zamaparini and sabatini got to know carrozzieri's pusher...
somebody do a drug test on those 2 please! :D
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

lo zio said:
a proper advanced midfielder playing as a..... well i can't really define bresciano's role.... maybe ballardini just invented a new role :))
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that said, Bresciano does an awful amount of defensive work. You know, I don't think there's a league that can compare to Serie A in terms of formation tinkering. You have teams like Fiorentina with a new formation every other week, Roma reinventing the 4-2-3-1, then you have teams like Chievo, lazio and Inter who have adopted new formations mid-season.

You make some good points about Genoa, lo zio, however what I think it will come down to is two things, strength in depth, and overall experience. Right now Genoa are making up for thier lack of quality with sheer enhusiasm, but stick any of thier starting 11 into another top side, the likes of Biava, Ferrari, Olivera, Mesto, Vanden Borre... But like you said, collectively, Genoa are to be reckoned with. But lets see how well that works when they're competing in three competitions at once. We saw it happen to Udinese, Napoli and Fiorentina this season in Europe. And with the likes Milito and Motta expected to leave, and perhaps even Bochetti, Ferrari and Cristico, Genoa will suffer in terms of squad depth. This in turn will effect their quality of play, morale and consequently results. With new players coming in to replace those gone, Genoa will effectively be starting anew.

As for Juric, I don't think we really appreciate how hard he works. With Genoa playing a 3-4-3 most games, Juric is therefore required to do a phenomenal amount of running, both destroying and creating (8 assits:CONFUSE:!). But as slow as he is, and a year older (next season) will he be able to keep up with the Aresnal midfield, for example? Xavi has two DMFs playing behind him, Cambiasso has two hrd running midfielders playing either side of him, Juric has two so-so wingbacks and the equally slow Motta. If Genoa do make it into Europe next season, I'm predicting a not-so-happy-ending for the Rossoblu :(( Perhaps it would be better if Fiorentina made it into Europe instead. We needs teams that can compete and the Viola can build on their recent succeses. Whatever the outcome, I'm just happy to see that serie A is returning to its ultra-competiive days. Remember when it was 7-horse-race (Fiorentina, Lazio, Parma, Roma, Inter, Milan, Juve - click me!)

I've noticed that there're quite a few Milanistas on here. Right after the Napoli game I got an earful about how Inter is going roll-over in the end, or how it will be 5 Maggio all over again. And unfortunately I know a lot of Juve and Milan fans :ROLL::LOL:
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

One can always dream :LOL:

But its very unlikely that Inter will drop points against the teams they're facing. Milan have to play Udinese, Roma, Catania and Juventus... we're going to lose at least one of these.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

rfU said:
You know, I don't think there's a league that can compare to Serie A in terms of formation tinkering.
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it's actually much more than that, mate. there's no comparing serie a to any other league, in terms of tactical sophistication and education.
it's the conception of "coaching" itself wich is completely different in italy.

the approach to coaching in every other league is something "amateur-like".
in italy u can't coach a football team (not even a serie c team) without a license.
there are 3 kind of licenses: a 1st degree license; a b degree license and an A class license.
if u wanna coach a serie a team u need to get all those 3 licenses.

and in order to get those licenses, u need to follow some courses (u might call them "masters").

now every league has its own coaching qualification process (the FA has its own for instance), but first, they're (almost) always optional (while in italy there's no way to skip this process if u wanna become a coach, unless u already won some trophies abroad, like the champions league). and, most important, there's no comparing those courses to the italian ones.

just to give u an idea, in order to try the final exam (the one which gives u the A class license u need to coach a serie a team), u have to go through 4 years of intensive study: psycology (men management), motivational aspects, training systems... it's pretty much a university of football.
but the most important part concerns the tactics. during those 4 years u learn everything there is to know about the tactical evolution history.
every gaming system, every tactical evolution experienced everywhere in the world in the last 80 years, gets deeply analyzed.

at the end of this process, u will get to know not only every tactical variation ever experienced in italy. u will know the british game better than an english "professional coach"... the spanish game better than a spanish professional coach, the dutch game better than a dutch an eredivisie coach, as none of them was forced to go through such an intensive and long education program.

just look at zola for instance. this summer there was a chance for him to get a job as west ham coach. he said "ok" and here it is west ham new coach.
during an interview a couple of months ago zola said "it's funny coz people here already consider me as a professional coach, while i know that a serie c coach is much more qualified than me. i realise my coaching preparation is extremely poor, but the thing is, here in england, i do represent the standard, as my knowledge isn't worse than most of the others epl coaches"

being a football coach is a matter of skill and education. as for the skill, well, if u're not talented enough there's no helping u. ignorance issues, instead, are something wich can be fixed, by studying.

that's what we do in italy. whether u're talented or not, that's your problem. but u cannot become a professional coach, unless u know everything about the game (and i really mean everything).

this of course doesn't mean that the only good coaches are italians. as i said earlier, it's not just a matter of knowledge but also a matter of skill, natural talent.

well outside italy, coaches rely mostly on their talent. and, since talent is something quite rare, there are just a few good coaches.
there are some rare "gems", as wenger, or van gaal, who are 100% natural talent.
then there are some other coaches, who "voluntarily" decided to study football, like hiddink and benitez (benitez spent many years in italy following the footprints of the great master sacchi)
and finally there are some coaches who became knowledgeable by experience (as ferguson).

but they all have an handicap, compared to their italian counterparts.

here in italy we're not tactical genius by nature. it's not like "u're italian, then u must be tactically talented".
the real point is, here in italy, even those who are not talented, still have an encyclopedic knowledge of football, and this obviously gives them an enourmous advantage.
so, even those who aren't naturally skilled, know the game better than their british, spanish, german, dutch, french, brazilian, argentinian counterparts.

take papadopulo for instance, who is a coach i really admire. he's nothing special in italy. infact he spent most of his carreer in serie b. he's nothing special in terms of talent (he can't be compared to the likes of alleegri, ballardini, giampaolo, mazzarri, baldini.... and i'm not even mentioning the gods like spalletti, prandelli, ancelotti, capello, etc..). but his tactical knowledge is something insane.
he is nothing special here in italy. i'd say he's actually below average.
but, in england, he would be the 5th best coach, right behind ferguson, hiddink, benitez and wenger (and way ahead of the likes of moyes or redknapp).

and u can also reverse the situation. mourinho was considered a top coach in england, while here he's just average (and by saying he's average, i'm being generous).

and mourinho himself admitted it, many times this season. he admitted it after facing sampdoria (mazzarri), genoa (gasperini), siena (giampaolo), cagliari (allegri).
the inter-samp post match interview early this season (it was october, if i remember well) was actually quite funny.

he said "i've never experienced such a professional challenge in my entire carreer. Mazzarri changed his setup, during the match, like 5 times. he changed sampdoria's setup every time i did a tactical adjustment, just 2 minutes after... it was almost like he was reading my mind".

to be precise, mazzarri was not reading his mind. he was reading inter tactical display, by looking at the players movements, and then modified his own setup according to what he saw.

later this season, he said in another interview "in england every coach displays a specific gameplan, and sticks to it, whether that gameplan is working or not. u can see some formation adjustments, but not tactical adjustments, during the game. and this makes a huge difference"
----------------------------------------------------------------

but stick any of thier starting 11 into another top side, the likes of Biava, Ferrari, Olivera, Mesto, Vanden Borre... But like you said, collectively, Genoa are to be reckoned with. But lets see how well that works when they're competing in three competitions at once. We saw it happen to Udinese, Napoli and Fiorentina this season in Europe
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having to face both the domestic league and the champions league, makes all the difference in the world.
infact if genoa would reach the 4th spot and have a fiorentina-like season (namely out of the champions league at the group stage and fighting fot the 4 spot in serie a) that would be a great achievement.
as for the players, i think they have some players who could easily be starters in a top team: mesto, palladino, jankovic, motta, milito. and bocchetti and criscito might well become top class players in a few years.

genoa's future infact will depend by how many of theese players they will be able to hold in genova. and reaching the champions league would be very useful talking about this.

as for the "5 maggio" point, there's just now way inter will loose the scudetto this season, imo. the scudetto is already yours :))
but it's gonna be a great fight for both the 2nd and the 4th spot.

and finally, concerning the so called "glorious days", the golden era of serie a, when 7 teams were fighting for the scudetto each and every year (we used to call them "the 7 sisters"), well there is a lot of misinformation about what serie a was those days and what serie a is today.
infact, today the league is much, much better than those days.
today we are less rich, but the football is soo much better. :))
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

I think it was more to do with the attacking players of those era's were probably more "big names" who had amazing reputations, like Baggio, Del Piero, Ronaldo, Vieri, Crespo, Nedved, Zidane, Weah, Batistuta etc.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

You know I'm seriously considering taking up Italilan just so that I can listen to the post match comments, particularly in the big games. If Mourinho can pick it up in just a season (although I'm certain his fluency in Portugese and Spanish more than helped), I'm sure I can manage one or two words.
lo zio said:
and finally, concerning the so called "glorious days", the golden era of serie a, when 7 teams were fighting for the scudetto each and every year (we used to call them "the 7 sisters"), well there is a lot of misinformation about what serie a was those days and what serie a is today.
infact, today the league is much, much better than those days.
today we are less rich, but the football is soo much better. :))
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Better perhaps because all the big teams have monopolised the top talent (remember when Parma had Buffon, Veron, Thuram, Crespo? and Lazio had Nesta, Nedved and Stankovic). Thnakfully we have Genoa and Napoli, hopefully they can keep their squad together and maintain competitiveness without going bankrupt. However, once you contrast this with the mega rich english clubs (Newcastle, Tottenham, Westham) what these piss poor Italian clubs have achieved in recent years is quite staggering and proves that money doesn't equate to success or trophies (you reading this Moratti :MAD:)

Going back to an earlier discussion, Jason listed the following midfielders as this seasons most impressive:

1.Esteban Cambiasso
2.Daniele De Rossi
3.Thiago Motta
4.Fabio Liverani
5.Gaetano D'Agostino
6.Cristian Ledesma
7.Angelo Palombo
8.Andrea Pirlo
9.Felipe Melo
10.Blerim Džemaili

Looks pretty much on the ball, although I can't say I would probably include Simplico instead of Pirlo. And if these are ranked I would have D'Agostino ahead of Liverani and Motta. And I think perhaps Hamsik, Inler, Blasi and Juric deserve an honorable mentions.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Serie A and B are now officially separated.... not sure if this is the right move. 19 out of 20 Serie A clubs voted for this move.... will this just worsen Serie B?

If it works out like the English Football league, it might gain sponsors and independence. Serie A teams will probably get more money, therefore can develop more.

MILANO - Antonio Matarrese usa l'ironia per commentare la scissione tra Serie A e B decisa oggi in Lega. ''Probabilmente la ricchezza disgrega le famiglie e, quando arrivano troppi soldi, qualcuno si ubriaca - ha detto il presidente della Lega -. Enunciare e' un conto, realizzare e' un altro: il percorso e' lunghissimo. Beretta dovra' impegnarsi molto perche' non e' un'operazione facile, vediamo dove salta il banco. Questa e' una giornata triste''.
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President of the Lega Calcio thinks its a sad day - too much money around makes some people drunk.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

It will be like the Premiership and Championship, but I don't really know how wealth is distributed in those leagues. From some of the things being said, it seems like Serie B will suffer.

With the current system, Serie A teams must share revenue with Serie B... but now that Serie A will be independent means they get a lot more, and Serie B will get less.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Only Lecce didn't vote yes. Even relegated teams said yes even if it is going to affect them. Maybe this will attract more sponsors and tv coverage.

Well Galiani always says that Serie A must be more like EPL. Hope this made him happy. New stadiums is next on his mind.

Is this the case in Spain though?
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

So there trying to copy the English leagues? Didn't expect that...
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

I think its mainly down to the fact that English teams are receiving a lot of TV revenue through their current system. Soon Sky will have as much power in Italy as they do in the UK for controlling match times. They already had a trial matchday that followed the English time table.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Genoa - Sampdoria today was monumental:APPLAUD::WORSHIP:. Is there a league with more intense derbies?? Sampdoria - Genoa, Juve - Torino, Milan - Inter, Juve - Inter, Lazio - Roma, Inter - Roma, Palermo - Catania...
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Oh man, one of the best football matches I've seen this season. Genoa-Sampdoria was absolutely awesome! The atmosphere, the tension and the pace of the game was mad!!!
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

I agree...what a match. Can anyone tell me something....what has happened to Cagliari's Defense. 8 goals in 2 matches :shock:

And if anyone saw the Catania v. Milan match. What was Catania's gameplan? They were totally owned in the MF, and they had Silvestre almost playing a sweeper role...running forward to try to challenge Kaka, and all it did was leave a massive whole that Milan was able to attack ALL MATCH. Why didn't Catania adjusting, and was it just Silvestre going rogue....or a lousy plan?
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

But to be fair, at the start of the season their goal was a CL finish, and considering how far they've gone, I dont think its really a failure. So I think some fans are a bit harsh on Ranieri.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

YoungGun_UK said:
I think it was more to do with the attacking players of those era's were probably more "big names" who had amazing reputations, like Baggio, Del Piero, Ronaldo, Vieri, Crespo, Nedved, Zidane, Weah, Batistuta etc.
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yeah, but u see that's the point. the number of "stars" has absolutely nothing to do with the average quality of an entire league.

10 years ago we had a few stars more than today (10? 15? 20? it definitely can't be more than that. and 20 players are about a grain of sand, compared to the +400 serie a players) and our top clubs were much much better than today.
but we're still talking about just 7 teams. 7 out of 18 (those days serie a had 18 teams). it's not even half of the league.

so what about the other 9 teams? what about the majority of the league.
well those teams were absolutely annoying to watch.
and it's not even a matter of quality (some of those teams were better than today's teams, some others weren't).
it's about their attitude on the pitch.

let me make a premiership example. aston villa and everton. 2 of the biggests assets in the epl growth process.
both those teams are very, very good roster-wise. they have many talented players and also the depth a "right behind the top 4" club needs.

but what happens when aston villa and everton face a top side on the pitch. what would u say about the quality of their football (and not the players quality, wich means nothing if the team's football quality isn't good)?. what would u say about their approach to the match, about their gameplan?

that is rubbish. maybe it's a matter of personality, maybe it's about tactical incompetence. probably it's a bit of both.
however it doesn't matter wich is the reason. the result is utterly poor. every time a "non top club" face a top club the show isn't worthy at all.

i know, now u'll tell me about the last aston villa-man utd match. but let's be honests. man utd fielded a "b team", u were worried about the upcoming champions league matchups.... and u were even playing on villa's turf.
so let's consider every other match except that. or let's consider the everton-liverpool matchups.

u get 1 team displaying an appalling, annoying "8 men beind the ball line" strategy, and another team struggling to create a single chance in 90 minutes (and then they say we italians are conservative! :CONFUSE: )

i tried to explain this simple undeliable truth to t_buthcer fan some time ago (with no success): the quality of the football played in a league is given by the average quality of the football played by ALL the teams.
u can't just consider the top 4 and keep the remaining 16 teams out of the equation.

i tell u, manchester utd is my favourite team to watch (i rate man utd even more than barca, wich says it all).
but the thing is, u don't get to watch man utd playing vs the likes of arsenal or chelsea or liverpool week in week out.
most of the times is man utd-fulham or man utd- wast ham or man utd-everton.

and to be honest, if i have to choose between a man utd-fulham and a milan-atalanta or a lazio-udinese, or a cagliari siena.... well, despite my enourmous admiration for man utd, i'm not gonna watch the premiership match, coz i know that each of the others matches i mentioned here will be much, much more fun to watch.

serie a 10 years ago was pretty much like epl today. we had even more top teams than epl has today and less non-top teams, as the total was 18 teams (so our top clubs used to represent the 40% if the whole league, while epl top clubs today represent just the 20%).
however the end result was the same. most of the matches were quite boring as every time a "non top team" used to face a "big gun" their tactical approach to the game was always the same.

in england this probably also has to do with the coaches incompetence. in italy instead the factor were the chairmen and the fans.

as i already said before in this thread, we italians have a pathological lack of "sport spirit" (u might even call it lack of fair play)... especially compared to the british culture.
the british mantra is "go out there and give everything u have".
the italian mantra instead is "just get a result, fuck everything else".

now how does this logic applies to football?
well, i won't say that our coaches were forced to display such a boring, consiervative tactical gameplan by the chaimen and the fans.
but the pressure those 2 elements used to put on the coach shoulders was immense.
it was something like that "sure u can display an attacking formation and a creative gameplan...... but if u do it and loose 2 matches in a row, then u're fired".
our coaches didn't have many options then.

in the last 5 years something changed. we still have a poor "sport mentality", but our coaches have much more freedom than 10 years ago.
today giampaolo (siena), mazzarri (samp), del neri (atalanta), marino (udinese) they all can exploit their creativity and their knowledge. they all can give their imprint to their teams and display some nice footbal, without loosing their jobs after a couple of bad results.

cagliari offers us a great example. Cellino (cagliari chaiman) is one of the scariests "coach-eaters" in italy.
but still, even though allegri (cagliari coach) had an awful start (cagliari lost something like 5 matches in a row at the beginning of the season), Cellino didn't fire him. he kept saying "i trust allegri. we 're playing some great football and i'm sure that sooner or later results will come". (and look at the great season cagliari had!).

so bottom line, to judge the quality of a league u don't have to look at the number ot top class players (inter and juve have their good share of star players.... but still siena, wich has no stars at all, plays a much more beautiful football than those teams), u don't have to look (just) at the top teams.
u must look at the average quality of the football displayed by all the teams. there's no other way.
we faced a financial downfall, we faced an "image" downfall (the empty stadia, the moggi scandal etc..)...

but the things that matters most, the quality of the football, grew up a lot.

the problem is most of the people outside italy won't ever notice it. because they just watch the italian top sides (wich are definitely weaker).


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YoungGun_UK said:
So there trying to copy the English leagues? Didn't expect that...
Click to expand...
in terms of "financial management" we have a lot to learn from the english leagues (i'm not talking about the clubs management here, i mean the league management).

however in this case we didn't really copy a specific model (like the english one). we just adapted our league to the european standards (the english, the spanish, the german etc...)

milanista said:
But to be fair, at the start of the season their goal was a CL finish, and considering how far they've gone, I dont think its really a failure. So I think some fans are a bit harsh on Ranieri.
Click to expand...
yep. i completely agree with u stef ;)

moving on, what a great week end this was. the spanish clasico sathurday and the genova derby sunday. 2 of the craziests matches in europe this season :BOP:
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

lo zio said:
u get 1 team displaying an appalling, annoying "8 men beind the ball line" strategy, and another team struggling to create a single chance in 90 minutes (and then they say we italians are conservative! :CONFUSE: )

......

serie a 10 years ago was pretty much like epl today. we had even more top teams than epl has today and less non-top teams, as the total was 18 teams (so our top clubs used to represent the 40% if the whole league, while epl top clubs today represent just the 20%).
however the end result was the same. most of the matches were quite boring as every time a "non top team" used to face a "big gun" their tactical approach to the game was always the same.

......

as i already said before in this thread, we italians have a pathological lack of "sport spirit" (u might even call it lack of fair play)... especially compared to the british culture.
the british mantra is "go out there and give everything u have".
the italian mantra instead is "just get a result, fuck everything else".
Click to expand...

Completely agree with these points. I remember once an interview with someone like Legrotaglie and Corradi, where they were saying in Italy footballers, well apart from the usual Adrianos, Zlatans and Ronaldinho, in Italy are considered to be people just doing a job, rather than being a class of their own. I think that already says a lot about the way football is approached here.

Speaking about Palermo.... boy Miccoli sure is on fire... some of the things he was doing with the ball were unreal!

edit - Pippo Inzaghi is officially the second coming of jesus :LOL:
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season

Hahaha I cant believe Milito didnt thank the guy who passed to him for the last goal and just ran off in the other direction! :LOL:

And Palermo's 3rd goal was sexy! :WORSHIP:
 
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