Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season
- Thread starter Professor Nutmeg
- Start date
Dominic
Serie A
- 19 August 2003
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
I'd say it all ties in. He did lose the 'important' dressing room figures like DP, but it cost his football. It's difficult to explain, but his selections were very cowardly and when the 'bigs' started to complain things went from bad to worse. Though I think Ranieri never was in control of the dressing room. Buffon's desperation these last weeks was just a painful sight. I still dont understand Ranieri's reluctancy to play Giovinco.. Not even benching him in the last weeks was just ..
I mean take a look at this little statistic..
1) Sebastian Giovinco (Juventus) 1102 minuti giocati 7 assists - 1 assist ogni 157 minuti
2) Xavi (Barcelona) 6247 minuti giocati 33 assists - 1 assist ogni 189 minuti
3) Cesc Fábregas (Arsenal) 4016 minuti giocati 19 assists - 1 assist ogni 211 minuti
4) Michele Fini (Cagliari) 2770 minuti giocati 13 assists - 1 assist ogni 213 minuti
5) Mata (Valencia) 2944 minuti giocati 13 assists - 1 assist ogni 226 minuti
6) Andrei Arshavin (Arsenal) 3606 minuti giocati 14 assists - 1 assist ogni 258 minuti
7) David Beckham (AC Milan) 1643 minuti giocati 6 assists - 1 assist ogni 274 minuti
8) Andrés Iniesta (Barcelona) 4894 minuti giocati 15 assists - 1 assist ogni 326 minuti
Giovinco is THE assist-man of European football. He has the most assists per minutes played. Also note the lack of playing minutes he had..
Again though, the problem was far beyond not playing Giovinco. Just to illustrate.
got to say i'm a bit surprised by reading this mate, as it doesn't tie in with what people say here in italy.
they say the main problem was the relationship with the dressing room (specifically the leaders, like camoranesi, and del piero)...
while, from what u're saying, it looks like there was a "football issue".
now i can't really talk about juve's football, as i haven't watched the bianconeri very often lately.... but if that's the case (and of course i tend to believe u), then the situation might be different.....
it's a shame u don't post here as often as u used to, as i would really like to here more from u on this concern.
... and where is martin when u need him!?!
I'd say it all ties in. He did lose the 'important' dressing room figures like DP, but it cost his football. It's difficult to explain, but his selections were very cowardly and when the 'bigs' started to complain things went from bad to worse. Though I think Ranieri never was in control of the dressing room. Buffon's desperation these last weeks was just a painful sight. I still dont understand Ranieri's reluctancy to play Giovinco.. Not even benching him in the last weeks was just ..
I mean take a look at this little statistic..
1) Sebastian Giovinco (Juventus) 1102 minuti giocati 7 assists - 1 assist ogni 157 minuti
2) Xavi (Barcelona) 6247 minuti giocati 33 assists - 1 assist ogni 189 minuti
3) Cesc Fábregas (Arsenal) 4016 minuti giocati 19 assists - 1 assist ogni 211 minuti
4) Michele Fini (Cagliari) 2770 minuti giocati 13 assists - 1 assist ogni 213 minuti
5) Mata (Valencia) 2944 minuti giocati 13 assists - 1 assist ogni 226 minuti
6) Andrei Arshavin (Arsenal) 3606 minuti giocati 14 assists - 1 assist ogni 258 minuti
7) David Beckham (AC Milan) 1643 minuti giocati 6 assists - 1 assist ogni 274 minuti
8) Andrés Iniesta (Barcelona) 4894 minuti giocati 15 assists - 1 assist ogni 326 minuti
Giovinco is THE assist-man of European football. He has the most assists per minutes played. Also note the lack of playing minutes he had..
Again though, the problem was far beyond not playing Giovinco. Just to illustrate.
Last edited:
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
I don't suppose you could summarize their discussion, could you, lo zio?
, not sure what Mancini was thinking there) speaking of Pizarro, what do you think is his best position, attacking or deep-lying playmaker? He doesn't have that "cutting edge" (to play the ball at the precise moment to create scoring opportunity) to play as a trequartista. IMO he's better suited as deep-lying playmaker, where he can make use of his ability to spray pinpoint 40-yard throughball and cross field passes. THoughts? Speaking of trequartista's, what ever happened to them? Totti's a virtually a CF at Roma, Montolivo is playing as central midfielder, Giovinco is played out wide with Juve, the likes of Brighi, Hamsik, Perrotta and Stankovic are a different breed of player... I suppose there's Cozza but he's well passed his sell-by date IMO. Kaka's around but Ancelotti's keeps playing that stupid christmas tree formation (to accomadate Seedorf 
). Remember the days of Zidane, Fabian O'Niel, Fiore, Locatelli, Rui Costa, Hidetoshi Nakata and Totti??
One final question, I notice Morimoto captains some games under Zenga. My question, when and how did this happen? This is only 3rd season in Italy, 2nd in the 1st team, has he made an impression that fast? Surely he can't have mastered the Italian language after only 2 years.
Oh man, this is why I need to learn Italian, and fast. Or maybe I should hook up with a fine italian lady, its certainly a more feasible alternative
I don't suppose you could summarize their discussion, could you, lo zio? True, but we're desperate for a creative player that will add another dimension to our game, and Modric is certainly the best out there that's attainable at a reasonable fee (I'm assuming we could trade him in for Muntari - a hardworker but not technical enough). Not sure about a deep lying playmaker, we already have Cambiasso playing in front of the defence, his most effective role, I'd rather just a playmaker behind two strikers. I'd like Ribery, although I'm not sure how easily he would adapt to Italian football. It's a shame we sold Pizarro, but I remember Mancini played him and Cambiasso together in the center of 4-man midfield (two slow pokes in midfield
, not sure what Mancini was thinking there) speaking of Pizarro, what do you think is his best position, attacking or deep-lying playmaker? He doesn't have that "cutting edge" (to play the ball at the precise moment to create scoring opportunity) to play as a trequartista. IMO he's better suited as deep-lying playmaker, where he can make use of his ability to spray pinpoint 40-yard throughball and cross field passes. THoughts? Speaking of trequartista's, what ever happened to them? Totti's a virtually a CF at Roma, Montolivo is playing as central midfielder, Giovinco is played out wide with Juve, the likes of Brighi, Hamsik, Perrotta and Stankovic are a different breed of player... I suppose there's Cozza but he's well passed his sell-by date IMO. Kaka's around but Ancelotti's keeps playing that stupid christmas tree formation (to accomadate Seedorf ). Remember the days of Zidane, Fabian O'Niel, Fiore, Locatelli, Rui Costa, Hidetoshi Nakata and Totti??One final question, I notice Morimoto captains some games under Zenga. My question, when and how did this happen? This is only 3rd season in Italy, 2nd in the 1st team, has he made an impression that fast? Surely he can't have mastered the Italian language after only 2 years.
Sorry, but never gonna happen. I suspect Napoli would rather sell Lavezzi to a club in another league, but I don't think they would sell, he is held in such high regard, it would almost be the equivalent of De Rossi or Totti leaving Roma. Unless, like lo zio pointed out, Liverpool come up with an outrageous offer, then its certainly worht considering.
matt1288
B4MF
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
I've always said why doesn't Ranieri play Giovinco when he chooses to play Marchionni or De Ceglie? That aggravated me from the start of the season. I'm not upset at Ranieri leaving, now hopefully we can sign Diego and another world-class player and continue from there.
Oh and it should be interesting seeing Ciro as manager this afternoon!
I've always said why doesn't Ranieri play Giovinco when he chooses to play Marchionni or De Ceglie? That aggravated me from the start of the season. I'm not upset at Ranieri leaving, now hopefully we can sign Diego and another world-class player and continue from there.
Oh and it should be interesting seeing Ciro as manager this afternoon!
Aboutreika18
Too Black, Too Strong
- 5 September 2006
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Seba was never given a fair chance by Ranieri IMO. Even when he was brought on, it was usually for only 10-15 mins, hardly enough time to make a big impact on a match. Also, he was usually isolated out wide, Ranieri should have adjusted the formation to give him a bit more freedom to roam inside.
Seba was never given a fair chance by Ranieri IMO. Even when he was brought on, it was usually for only 10-15 mins, hardly enough time to make a big impact on a match. Also, he was usually isolated out wide, Ranieri should have adjusted the formation to give him a bit more freedom to roam inside.
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
How old is he though? Its good to slowly bring in young players of the age of 17/18. I think next season he'll get lots of play time.
How old is he though? Its good to slowly bring in young players of the age of 17/18. I think next season he'll get lots of play time.
matt1288
B4MF
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
I think he's 22/23 right now.
Did anyone see Riise's free kick? What a rocket!
I think he's 22/23 right now.
Did anyone see Riise's free kick? What a rocket!
Jumbo_
-
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Yeah he's 22, his younger brother is 18 though I think He'll get his chance, maybe he should go on loan to another team for a season. I think Italians tend to bring through their youth a bit slower than England for example, particularly at the big clubs.
Yeah he's 22, his younger brother is 18 though I think He'll get his chance, maybe he should go on loan to another team for a season. I think Italians tend to bring through their youth a bit slower than England for example, particularly at the big clubs.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
for example Milan plays with Favalli (36 y.o.) instead a young Darmian, and that sounds very bad
that's absolutely true, Santon and Balotelli are the only 2 exceptions about big clubs
for example Milan plays with Favalli (36 y.o.) instead a young Darmian, and that sounds very bad
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Bloody hell! Just goes to show that standards for youth in England are much different, Someone like Nani who is also 22 gets lots of stick for not showing enough yet. This lad is extremely talented though and will probably go on to become one of the best in the world if he lives up to his talent.
Bloody hell! Just goes to show that standards for youth in England are much different, Someone like Nani who is also 22 gets lots of stick for not showing enough yet. This lad is extremely talented though and will probably go on to become one of the best in the world if he lives up to his talent.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dominic, those stats really surprised me! coz this season sebastian never played as good as last season (due to the lack of playtime, as u pointed out).
so it's absolutely insane to notice that, despite this, he still was able to deliver that much
anyhow i think i see your point.... but i still can't help thinking that not the players, neither the fans should pick the coach.... it's up to the board to take theese decision and to show some guts and protect the coach, when the situation gets tricky and the pressure on the coach raise.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
the thing is nani doesn't have to compete with the likes of nedved and del piero in order to get a spot.
i'm not implying that is easy top get a starter spot in man utd. that is arguably the best team in the world today, so of course it's tough to get playtime there....
but if c. ronaldo goes through a bad period, man utd fans wouldn't question sir alex cos he doesn't line him up for a few matches... and the same goes for giggs or rooney.
in torino the situation is different. if u don't line up del piero for 2 consecutives match, then u (the coach, i mean) are gonna face troubles. and it's ("almost") the same with nedved.
the "young players find it hard to get playtime in serie a" topic used to be absolutely true.... till 4\5 years ago.
i believe it's something related to our (distorted) conception of the game. football is something serious, so we can't risk any match (coz every match is extremely impotant) just to favour the growth of a kid.....
but in the last seasons this situation changed. i'm not talking about our horrible mentality, that didn't change.... but low and mid class clubs are today full of under 24 players.
and the result is, according to the uefa site data, serie a turned out to be the 2nd top league in europe wich fields more youngsters (right behind ligue un).... i almost couldn't believe it when i read it.
and the top clubs situation changed aswell. juventus is one of the youngest top clubs in europe today. marchisio (23), chiellini (24), molinaro (25), de ceglie (22), giovinco (22).
santon and balotelli just reached their 18th year and yet are both starters at inter.
and despite all the clichèes about milan being an old team (their defense is the only old sector) next season, with borriello and pato, they will line up of of the youngest offensive setups in europe (and they would have done it this season too, if borriello would have been fit).
the thing is, to get playtime in a top club at a young age, u really must be something special. and that's why, most of the times, top clubs youngsters move to mid class clubs (on loan or on a co-ownership).... wich is great...
great for the top clubs which can let their youngsters grow and get that playtime they would never get in a top club.
great for the youngsters themselves, who don't have to compete with "monsters" in order to get playtime.
great for the mid class clubs, coz they get a chance to improve the quality of their own teams. and lets not underestimate another factor.... often the mid-class clubs (expecially when they sign a co-ownership agreement) end up buying the whole player.
let's just consider genoa. they're probably gonna buy palladino and criscito. and this co-ownership agreements brought my team (palermo) to get bovo, gasbarroni and budan.
so this agreements are also a great way to level up the entire league.
i mean, just consider the team empoli used to display last season: giovinco, marzorati, abate, antonini, marchisio, bassi, moro, pozzi, volpato.... all starters (except volpato)... all under 25.... 7 of them were even under 23!!!
and parma were almost on the same standards.
and the same goes for this season: every top club has its youngsters getting some starters playtime somewhere. Inter has Acquafresca and Biabany. Milan has di gennaro, paloschi and abate. juve has pasquato, paolucci, mirante and venitucci.
mmm.. i can't see him doing well in that role honestly mate... not even as a temporary solutionAbhishek said:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dominic, those stats really surprised me! coz this season sebastian never played as good as last season (due to the lack of playtime, as u pointed out).
so it's absolutely insane to notice that, despite this, he still was able to deliver that much
anyhow i think i see your point.... but i still can't help thinking that not the players, neither the fans should pick the coach.... it's up to the board to take theese decision and to show some guts and protect the coach, when the situation gets tricky and the pressure on the coach raise.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
the thing is nani doesn't have to compete with the likes of nedved and del piero in order to get a spot.
i'm not implying that is easy top get a starter spot in man utd. that is arguably the best team in the world today, so of course it's tough to get playtime there....
but if c. ronaldo goes through a bad period, man utd fans wouldn't question sir alex cos he doesn't line him up for a few matches... and the same goes for giggs or rooney.
in torino the situation is different. if u don't line up del piero for 2 consecutives match, then u (the coach, i mean) are gonna face troubles. and it's ("almost") the same with nedved.
the "young players find it hard to get playtime in serie a" topic used to be absolutely true.... till 4\5 years ago.
i believe it's something related to our (distorted) conception of the game. football is something serious, so we can't risk any match (coz every match is extremely impotant) just to favour the growth of a kid.....
but in the last seasons this situation changed. i'm not talking about our horrible mentality, that didn't change.... but low and mid class clubs are today full of under 24 players.
and the result is, according to the uefa site data, serie a turned out to be the 2nd top league in europe wich fields more youngsters (right behind ligue un).... i almost couldn't believe it when i read it.
and the top clubs situation changed aswell. juventus is one of the youngest top clubs in europe today. marchisio (23), chiellini (24), molinaro (25), de ceglie (22), giovinco (22).
santon and balotelli just reached their 18th year and yet are both starters at inter.
and despite all the clichèes about milan being an old team (their defense is the only old sector) next season, with borriello and pato, they will line up of of the youngest offensive setups in europe (and they would have done it this season too, if borriello would have been fit).
the thing is, to get playtime in a top club at a young age, u really must be something special. and that's why, most of the times, top clubs youngsters move to mid class clubs (on loan or on a co-ownership).... wich is great...
great for the top clubs which can let their youngsters grow and get that playtime they would never get in a top club.
great for the youngsters themselves, who don't have to compete with "monsters" in order to get playtime.
great for the mid class clubs, coz they get a chance to improve the quality of their own teams. and lets not underestimate another factor.... often the mid-class clubs (expecially when they sign a co-ownership agreement) end up buying the whole player.
let's just consider genoa. they're probably gonna buy palladino and criscito. and this co-ownership agreements brought my team (palermo) to get bovo, gasbarroni and budan.
so this agreements are also a great way to level up the entire league.
i mean, just consider the team empoli used to display last season: giovinco, marzorati, abate, antonini, marchisio, bassi, moro, pozzi, volpato.... all starters (except volpato)... all under 25.... 7 of them were even under 23!!!
and parma were almost on the same standards.
and the same goes for this season: every top club has its youngsters getting some starters playtime somewhere. Inter has Acquafresca and Biabany. Milan has di gennaro, paloschi and abate. juve has pasquato, paolucci, mirante and venitucci.
Last edited:
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
well u need a player in that position, i agree. not necessarily a creative player though... it could also be a phisical player with a good technique and a great timing\positioning (someone a la stankovic or a la lampard).
but that wouldn't be on top of my priorities anyhow. an advanced midfielder would be my second signing, after a deep-lying playmaker (a pure regista).
that is what inter needs most today. that is their main weakness and there is where u need creativity the most.
i already said this, talking about juve a few weeks ago (and juventus situation is pretty similar, on this concern). advanced midfielders have an impact on the finalization of the plays. and even though a proper replacement for an ageing stankovic would be nice, it still must be said inter already has some high quality players who can make the difference in that "no man's land" between midfield and attack ibra, balotelli.... not to mention quaresma.... (
)
what u really need now is someone who can "create" football. and advanced midfielders don't do this, they finalize the plays with a shot or an assist... they don't start the plays.
inter today is incredibly strong.... but it's also extremely predictable, as their gamplan is pretty "flat".
many times during the season when inter was struggling to open the opponent's defences, mourinho went on "psycopath mode" and switched to that crazy 4-2-4 formation wich was all about pushing and nothing about logic.
the truth is to open up the defences, u need 2 offensive players who stay wide and a brain at midfield. that's what u really need.
cambiasso can't do this. sure he's much more than a simple defensive midfielder...... but a metodista can't create football. a metodista can give structure and order to the team... a world class metodista (like cambiasso and thiago motta) can even dictate the tempo of the plays.... a world class metodista with great passing game and vision will also be able to design the shape of the plays......
.. but no matter how good he is, he's still a metodista, hence won't ever be able to do what pirlo, xavi, xabi alonso, liverani, d'agostino, conti do... or at least he won't be able to do it as good as they do.
let's try to picture inter as a car. the metodista is the chassis (and with motta and cambiasso, now u have a great chassis). ibra is the engine, milito is the tyres (wich are vital to take advantage of a good engine).
what u need most now is a clutch. something wich can actually let the car moving... something wich can allow inter to change gear (wich was inter's main issue this season).
a few weeks ago i was watching an inter match with a friend and he told me "can u imagine what an amazing team this inter would be with a regista in the middle of the midfield... not necessarily a world class regista, even a liverani, a d'agostino, a conti". he's absolutely right. with a proper "tuning fork" (or a clutch, if u perfere the car comparison) this team would get in a completely different dimension.
i wrote about this topic a few months ago....
it's a shame indeed... that's one of the worst consequences of the raise of the pace of the game.
sorry for double posting, but the 2 topics were completely unrelated, so i thought to divide them in order to make team easier to read
man, u're an inter fan!!! u don't have to worry about fees!! i do!rfu said:
i see why u came up with modric then.
well u need a player in that position, i agree. not necessarily a creative player though... it could also be a phisical player with a good technique and a great timing\positioning (someone a la stankovic or a la lampard).
but that wouldn't be on top of my priorities anyhow. an advanced midfielder would be my second signing, after a deep-lying playmaker (a pure regista).
that is what inter needs most today. that is their main weakness and there is where u need creativity the most.
i already said this, talking about juve a few weeks ago (and juventus situation is pretty similar, on this concern). advanced midfielders have an impact on the finalization of the plays. and even though a proper replacement for an ageing stankovic would be nice, it still must be said inter already has some high quality players who can make the difference in that "no man's land" between midfield and attack ibra, balotelli.... not to mention quaresma.... (
)what u really need now is someone who can "create" football. and advanced midfielders don't do this, they finalize the plays with a shot or an assist... they don't start the plays.
inter today is incredibly strong.... but it's also extremely predictable, as their gamplan is pretty "flat".
many times during the season when inter was struggling to open the opponent's defences, mourinho went on "psycopath mode" and switched to that crazy 4-2-4 formation wich was all about pushing and nothing about logic.
the truth is to open up the defences, u need 2 offensive players who stay wide and a brain at midfield. that's what u really need.
cambiasso can't do this. sure he's much more than a simple defensive midfielder...... but a metodista can't create football. a metodista can give structure and order to the team... a world class metodista (like cambiasso and thiago motta) can even dictate the tempo of the plays.... a world class metodista with great passing game and vision will also be able to design the shape of the plays......
.. but no matter how good he is, he's still a metodista, hence won't ever be able to do what pirlo, xavi, xabi alonso, liverani, d'agostino, conti do... or at least he won't be able to do it as good as they do.
let's try to picture inter as a car. the metodista is the chassis (and with motta and cambiasso, now u have a great chassis). ibra is the engine, milito is the tyres (wich are vital to take advantage of a good engine).
what u need most now is a clutch. something wich can actually let the car moving... something wich can allow inter to change gear (wich was inter's main issue this season).
a few weeks ago i was watching an inter match with a friend and he told me "can u imagine what an amazing team this inter would be with a regista in the middle of the midfield... not necessarily a world class regista, even a liverani, a d'agostino, a conti". he's absolutely right. with a proper "tuning fork" (or a clutch, if u perfere the car comparison) this team would get in a completely different dimension.
indeed u're right.Rfu said:
i wrote about this topic a few months ago....
me last year said:
it's a shame indeed... that's one of the worst consequences of the raise of the pace of the game.
i ran out of time mate.... but i'll try to remember the main topics of that conversation and put them here in the upcoming daysrfu said:
sorry for double posting, but the 2 topics were completely unrelated, so i thought to divide them in order to make team easier to read
Last edited:
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Talking about playmakers (regista as you like to call it). Don't you think there's a genuine lack of them around the world (as there as a lack of genuine wingers around). I mean, let's talk about the very best, Pirlo, Xabi, Xavi, Fabregas (can you call him that?). Then you have Carrick, Liverani, Conti, D'Agostino, Pizarro.
I mean apart from that, who else is there? As you say, I think having one is so crucial for a team. There's so many top teams who need one. Juventus, Inter, Real, Chelsea (to a certain extent). I mean, there's so few players, who actually specialize in that, teams will struggle to find those players. I mean, Inter would do well to get one, but really, given how lucky they are to have someone like Cambiasso (who can do both), there's no real need for them. Teams are finding a way to play without such players.
Talking about playmakers (regista as you like to call it). Don't you think there's a genuine lack of them around the world (as there as a lack of genuine wingers around). I mean, let's talk about the very best, Pirlo, Xabi, Xavi, Fabregas (can you call him that?). Then you have Carrick, Liverani, Conti, D'Agostino, Pizarro.
I mean apart from that, who else is there? As you say, I think having one is so crucial for a team. There's so many top teams who need one. Juventus, Inter, Real, Chelsea (to a certain extent). I mean, there's so few players, who actually specialize in that, teams will struggle to find those players. I mean, Inter would do well to get one, but really, given how lucky they are to have someone like Cambiasso (who can do both), there's no real need for them. Teams are finding a way to play without such players.
matt1288
B4MF
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Well when Diego comes (I hope he does in the end) He will be the creative force in the midfield.
Well when Diego comes (I hope he does in the end) He will be the creative force in the midfield.
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
He passed the medical today. Great signing.
He passed the medical today. Great signing.
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
http://juventus.com/site/ita/NEWS_newsseriea_B3C14195FD84453E8EDB4E34B6091781.asp Official.
http://juventus.com/site/ita/NEWS_newsseriea_B3C14195FD84453E8EDB4E34B6091781.asp Official.
Zeem
Wonder Boy
- 15 July 2006
- AC Milan
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Great signing by Juve and a good deal also. 14 mill upfront.
Great signing by Juve and a good deal also. 14 mill upfront.
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Funny read:
Funny read:
matt1288
B4MF
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
concerning our tendency to see conspiracies everywhere... well that's undeniable... it's just in our dna....
however the byron moreno thing.. well i'm not really sure we made up that one.
i mean, it's a fact that he became rich from one day to another (right after the end of the world cup (some american journalists made a reportage about moreno's financial situation)... and just 8 months after the world cup mr. Moreno was involved in another bribing\match fixing scandal in the ecuador league......
it must be said however, i'll never blame the ref for our disappointing 2002 world cup campaign. trap was the one to blame. he had one of the best italy teams in history, with world class players (all in their prime) in almost every role.... and yet never took advantage of the strenghts of the team.
his gameplan was so unbelievably conservative.
as for our bad defending.... well that is mostly due to the decline of the italian school. since our coaches stopped teaching man marking techniques, we lost our supremacy in defending. today the italian average cb has basically the same marking education of a premiership cb (well maybe we're still slightly better, but anyhow that huge gap between us and the rest of the world is almost vanished nowadays).
it's really a shame, if u ask me, but that's it.
concerning the diving issue, yes english players too dive a lot today. the thing is, when a players dives in the epl, the fans complain about it..... in italy.... well i wouldn't say nobody cares, but definitely it's a seen as a minor issue.
so there's still a deep mentality difference between english and latins (italians, spanish, portuguese, brazilian and argies).
but that depends by the game. in england the game phylosophy has always been focused mostly on the phisycal aspects, while in italy and argentina, historically, football has always been a matter of geometries and "art".
however today there are so many contaminations in our national schools... the english game made some huge progresses in the last 10 years in the tactical\technical area. the pace of the game itself is going down and the quality of the football is consequently getting better.
yes there aren't many deep-lying playmakers in england, but as soon as u look back (let's say 10 years ago), u can see the trend is actually pretty good.
in italy instead the european contaminations brought to a general raise of the pace.... today in serie a u can see some teams playing a very british-like football (like napoli and samp, for instance.... and it's no coincidence if both teams don't have a regista).
however we still have quite a lot of registi... almost every team has its own. atalanta (cigarini), bologna (volpi), cagliari (conti) catania (ledesma), lazio (ledesma), milan (pirlo), palermo (liverani), roma (pizarro), udinese (d'agostino).
and btw i like fellaini's hairstyle
edit:
there are rumours genoa is gonna sign crespo and quaresma.
apparently moratti told preziosi "ok dude, i'll give u hernan for free, as long as u take quaresma aswell"
poor little thing ricardo! now he'll have to fight with jankovic, sculli, palladino..... odds are he won't see the ball for the whole season.
concerning our tendency to see conspiracies everywhere... well that's undeniable... it's just in our dna....
however the byron moreno thing.. well i'm not really sure we made up that one.
i mean, it's a fact that he became rich from one day to another (right after the end of the world cup (some american journalists made a reportage about moreno's financial situation)... and just 8 months after the world cup mr. Moreno was involved in another bribing\match fixing scandal in the ecuador league......
it must be said however, i'll never blame the ref for our disappointing 2002 world cup campaign. trap was the one to blame. he had one of the best italy teams in history, with world class players (all in their prime) in almost every role.... and yet never took advantage of the strenghts of the team.
his gameplan was so unbelievably conservative.
as for our bad defending.... well that is mostly due to the decline of the italian school. since our coaches stopped teaching man marking techniques, we lost our supremacy in defending. today the italian average cb has basically the same marking education of a premiership cb (well maybe we're still slightly better, but anyhow that huge gap between us and the rest of the world is almost vanished nowadays).
it's really a shame, if u ask me, but that's it.
concerning the diving issue, yes english players too dive a lot today. the thing is, when a players dives in the epl, the fans complain about it..... in italy.... well i wouldn't say nobody cares, but definitely it's a seen as a minor issue.
so there's still a deep mentality difference between english and latins (italians, spanish, portuguese, brazilian and argies).
registas have always been something quite rare to find outside italy and argentina.abhishek said:
but that depends by the game. in england the game phylosophy has always been focused mostly on the phisycal aspects, while in italy and argentina, historically, football has always been a matter of geometries and "art".
however today there are so many contaminations in our national schools... the english game made some huge progresses in the last 10 years in the tactical\technical area. the pace of the game itself is going down and the quality of the football is consequently getting better.
yes there aren't many deep-lying playmakers in england, but as soon as u look back (let's say 10 years ago), u can see the trend is actually pretty good.
in italy instead the european contaminations brought to a general raise of the pace.... today in serie a u can see some teams playing a very british-like football (like napoli and samp, for instance.... and it's no coincidence if both teams don't have a regista).
however we still have quite a lot of registi... almost every team has its own. atalanta (cigarini), bologna (volpi), cagliari (conti) catania (ledesma), lazio (ledesma), milan (pirlo), palermo (liverani), roma (pizarro), udinese (d'agostino).
and btw i like fellaini's hairstyle
edit:
there are rumours genoa is gonna sign crespo and quaresma.
apparently moratti told preziosi "ok dude, i'll give u hernan for free, as long as u take quaresma aswell"
poor little thing ricardo! now he'll have to fight with jankovic, sculli, palladino..... odds are he won't see the ball for the whole season.
Last edited:
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Yep Quaresma's gone to Genoa. I think he should have stayed in the Premiership, his style of play would suit this league better or even La Liga.
Yep Quaresma's gone to Genoa. I think he should have stayed in the Premiership, his style of play would suit this league better or even La Liga.
Zeem
Wonder Boy
- 15 July 2006
- AC Milan
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
What?? Genoa must have sold Milito and Motta for 40 mill to get all these players. Very smart move. They still have extra cash also.
Aquilani also renewed with Roma. Didn't see that coming. Which means Mexes is a definite sell. I doubt De Rossi will go.
Still waiting on Milan to announce something. Leonardo is first choice, but he doesn't have his coaching license yet I think.
What?? Genoa must have sold Milito and Motta for 40 mill to get all these players. Very smart move. They still have extra cash also.
Aquilani also renewed with Roma. Didn't see that coming. Which means Mexes is a definite sell. I doubt De Rossi will go.
Still waiting on Milan to announce something. Leonardo is first choice, but he doesn't have his coaching license yet I think.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
And what of Maldini's send off after the Roma game? How disappointing that one of the most accomplished defenders of all time gets jeered off the field in his final home game after 2+ decades of service. Even Cannavaro recieved a better send off against Mallorca on the weekend. And he had a very poor game
! I understand some of the ultra's were upset with Maldini for dubbing them mercenaries, but that was one episode out of thousands of mostly commanding perfomances! How many one-club players are out there at the moment? Even Kaka looks ready to move on. Disgraceful. You know what Maldini needs to do now? Continue playing for one more season... as an Inter player... that'll show 'em 
. Grazie Mr. Maldini, a true legend of the game, from a diehard Interisti 
What about Palombo?
So what happens with Giovinco? And this years 4-4-2 formation? And any thoughts on Juve's recent win against Siena under Ferrera? Interesting to see Iaquinta instead of Amauri. And good to see Del Piero and Nedved at thier best before the seasons end.
And what of Maldini's send off after the Roma game? How disappointing that one of the most accomplished defenders of all time gets jeered off the field in his final home game after 2+ decades of service. Even Cannavaro recieved a better send off against Mallorca on the weekend. And he had a very poor game
! I understand some of the ultra's were upset with Maldini for dubbing them mercenaries, but that was one episode out of thousands of mostly commanding perfomances! How many one-club players are out there at the moment? Even Kaka looks ready to move on. Disgraceful. You know what Maldini needs to do now? Continue playing for one more season... as an Inter player... that'll show 'em . Grazie Mr. Maldini, a true legend of the game, from a diehard Interisti 
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
I feel for Paolo (legend #3).
I feel for Paolo (legend #3).
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
it was disgusting. really there aren't any other words to describe it.
and btw, when maldini attacked some milan ultras, years ago (wich is the reason why they did what they did sunday).... he was absolutely right!
anyhow it must be said it was just an ultras thing. the rest of the people at the stadium cheered Paolo for the whole match.
we're just talking about a few hundreds people.... out of 70 thousands fans...
it's still a shame to see though.
classy paolo, interviewed after the match:
"what about that sad episode Paolo?"
"i'm just glad i'm not like them"
he's a metodista a la de rossi. sure he has very good passing game and he can't interpretate and even anticipate the flow of the game. but he still remains a metodista. Volpi was samp playmaker till last season... him and palombo used to form a partnership pretty similar to the pizarro-de rossi one.
it was disgusting. really there aren't any other words to describe it.
and btw, when maldini attacked some milan ultras, years ago (wich is the reason why they did what they did sunday).... he was absolutely right!
anyhow it must be said it was just an ultras thing. the rest of the people at the stadium cheered Paolo for the whole match.
we're just talking about a few hundreds people.... out of 70 thousands fans...
it's still a shame to see though.
classy paolo, interviewed after the match:
"what about that sad episode Paolo?"
"i'm just glad i'm not like them"
palombo isn't a deep-lying playmaker.rfu said:
he's a metodista a la de rossi. sure he has very good passing game and he can't interpretate and even anticipate the flow of the game. but he still remains a metodista. Volpi was samp playmaker till last season... him and palombo used to form a partnership pretty similar to the pizarro-de rossi one.
jmg721
League 1
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Sorry I haven't had much to comment on lately. But been a pleasure to read this thread as always. I love the Playmaker talk
lol
BTW. It is interesting Ben how you mentioned Argentina along with Italy are the only leagues that really feature playmakers. I jsut started getting into Argentine Football...and now it makes sense. What I have really noticed even more than them having a "regista", they have players like Giovinco & Rosina....on almost every squad. An AMF/WF/SS versitile type players (i.e. De Federico, Papu Gomez, Buannanote, Maxi Moralez...to name a few). I was thinking those players would probably be most sucessful in jumping into La Liga vs Serie A....what do you think?
Sorry I haven't had much to comment on lately. But been a pleasure to read this thread as always. I love the Playmaker talk
lolBTW. It is interesting Ben how you mentioned Argentina along with Italy are the only leagues that really feature playmakers. I jsut started getting into Argentine Football...and now it makes sense. What I have really noticed even more than them having a "regista", they have players like Giovinco & Rosina....on almost every squad. An AMF/WF/SS versitile type players (i.e. De Federico, Papu Gomez, Buannanote, Maxi Moralez...to name a few). I was thinking those players would probably be most sucessful in jumping into La Liga vs Serie A....what do you think?
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
it's "buonanotte" mate . however i didn't say italy and argentina are the only countries who "produce" deep lying playmakers... i said that pure deep-lying playmakers are rare to find outside italy and argentina...
there are some registas in spain and (a few) in england aswell.
but definitely it's more of an argentinian and italian thing.
about your second point, yes, argentina produces an awful lot of numbers 10s and numbers 7s. an army of creative offensive players with sheer technique, poor tactical discipline and a pathologic lack of practical sense.
when they move to spain, they usually reach an high profile status pretty soon. la liga perfectly fits their features, there's lot of free space on the 3\4 of the pitch and the pressing-rate is pretty low.
when they move to italy, they don't reach that high profile status that soon.... but they grow faster. and this happens precisely because italy doesn't fit their features as much as spain. they're forced to grow, to improve their game and to work on their weaknesses in italy.
serie a is a nightmare for a number 10 or a number 7. the pace is not as high as the british one... but it's still way higher than the spanish one. and this forces them to learn how "to think quick and react quick".
and in terms of tactics, timing and positioning, serie a represent the ultimate test for a trequartista or a winger.
so, to reply to your question, it all depends by what the player wants.... if u wanna become famous as soon as possible, then choose la liga. if u wanna become a better player as soon as possible, choose serie a.
.... if u wanna become rich as soon as possible, chose the epl.
personally, if i were a talented argentinian trequartista, i would go for the latter
it's "buonanotte" mate
. however i didn't say italy and argentina are the only countries who "produce" deep lying playmakers... i said that pure deep-lying playmakers are rare to find outside italy and argentina... there are some registas in spain and (a few) in england aswell.
but definitely it's more of an argentinian and italian thing.
about your second point, yes, argentina produces an awful lot of numbers 10s and numbers 7s. an army of creative offensive players with sheer technique, poor tactical discipline and a pathologic lack of practical sense.
when they move to spain, they usually reach an high profile status pretty soon. la liga perfectly fits their features, there's lot of free space on the 3\4 of the pitch and the pressing-rate is pretty low.
when they move to italy, they don't reach that high profile status that soon.... but they grow faster. and this happens precisely because italy doesn't fit their features as much as spain. they're forced to grow, to improve their game and to work on their weaknesses in italy.
serie a is a nightmare for a number 10 or a number 7. the pace is not as high as the british one... but it's still way higher than the spanish one. and this forces them to learn how "to think quick and react quick".
and in terms of tactics, timing and positioning, serie a represent the ultimate test for a trequartista or a winger.
so, to reply to your question, it all depends by what the player wants.... if u wanna become famous as soon as possible, then choose la liga. if u wanna become a better player as soon as possible, choose serie a.
.... if u wanna become rich as soon as possible, chose the epl.
personally, if i were a talented argentinian trequartista, i would go for the latter
Last edited:
Zeem
Wonder Boy
- 15 July 2006
- AC Milan
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
We just lost Ligue 1's best player!
Stupid Stupid Administration. Was really looking forward to seeing him again in Serie A.
Why the hell do we keep players like Seedorf, Ronaldinho, and Beckham who are way past their primes and leaving out the player thought to be the next Zizou for 15 mill. Selling Ronaldinho and Seedorf will make more than that.
If Milan don't get some players this summer then BYE BYE Milan!
We just lost Ligue 1's best player!
Stupid Stupid Administration. Was really looking forward to seeing him again in Serie A. Why the hell do we keep players like Seedorf, Ronaldinho, and Beckham who are way past their primes and leaving out the player thought to be the next Zizou for 15 mill. Selling Ronaldinho and Seedorf will make more than that.
If Milan don't get some players this summer then BYE BYE Milan!