Real football vs PES simulation ***Where has Konami gone wrong?***

[soyo]

While I'd be the first one to point out that the gameplay is way deeper and closer to the reality in PES 2011, this game brings me not even a fraction of the enjoyment and challenge that WE9LE does.

I'm glad more and more people are starting to recognise this amazing game, the most realistic game ever released.

ps. I don't know if I got you right, but if you said PES2011 is closer to reality than fifa11, I agree. But lets also agree that WE9LE is even closer to reality than pes2011 , or any other pes for that matter.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

But lets also agree that WE9LE is even closer to reality than pes2011 , or any other pes for that matter.

Let's not.

 

[soyo]

Let's not.

Alright.

Can you give me arguments to support your opinion?

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Alright.

Can you give me arguments to support your opinion?

I'd rather not if that's ok, I've done it to death. Lets just agree to disagree bud.

 

[soyo]

I'd rather not if that ok, I've done it to death. Lets just agree to disagree bud.

That's ok with me actually :]

Can I just ask if you ever played WE9LE?

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Yeah sure, I've played every PES and WE game since ISS 64. It's the only games I ever play. For the most part, I always preferred the WE games over the PES titles. But for me personally, next gen PES is light-years ahead in technical reproduction. I just couldnt go back. It's not about which is the easiest and most fun to play, it's about which game replicates football the most on a technical level. And for me thats's PES 2011 by a long way.

 

[soyo]

Yeah sure, I've played every PES and WE game since ISS 64. It's the only games I ever play.

Good.

Now, can you tell me what you think about it? I don't want to enter into a debate, so I will honour your request. Just say what's on your mind, either it's pros or cons of WE9LE, so I and others can hear your opinion.

But for me personally, next gen PES is light-years ahead in technical reproduction. I just couldnt go back. It's not about which is the easiest and most fun to play, it's about which game replicates football the most on a technical level. And for me thats's PES 2011 by a long way.

"Techincal reproduction"... can you explain it in more detail? I'm finding it hard to get what you mean. Thanks.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Good.

Now, can you tell me what you think about it? I don't want to enter into a debate, so I will honour your request. Just say what's on your mind, either it's pros or cons of that particular game.

If I'm brutally honest, I cant remember. It's a long time since I've played old-gen PES. I sampled PES 6 again before the PES 2011 release, but thats it. My take on that game is here ....

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=59837

 

[soyo]

If I'm brutally honest, I cant remember. It's a long time since I've played old-gen PES. I sampled PES 6 again before the PES 2011 release, but thats it. My take on that game is here ....

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=59837

Thanks for that. However... this is pes6, and it has nothing on we9le. PES6 is very arcade game with focus shifted a lot on offensive side of the game. WE9LE is miles ahead in this regard.

My question was about we9le specificaly. It's a little shame that it was so long time ago, you can't recall any good or bad points about the game, but that's ok. At least you're honest.

I would encourage you however, that if you want, or would like to make in the future, comparison between "old PES games", and "next gen games" you do it in comparison with we9le as this is the milestone of the "pre next gen" pes franchise, if you would like to divide it that way.

You might be quite suprised at what you'll find when you do it carefully. I'm old time gamer myself, and I can tell you for a fact. In terms of PURE realism, we're not speaking now about 360, or graphics, or animations(so visuals). In terms of pure realism of football game, there is simply nothing better than we9le till this day. And yes, I played both pes2011, and fifa11, as well as all the pes games after pes5, and also a few before that, and I know and am confident that what I'm saying is not an opinion, but a fact.

cheers

 

[kobayashi]

Thanks for that. However... this is pes6, and it has nothing on we9le. PES6 is very arcade game with focus shifted a lot on offensive side of the game. WE9LE is miles ahead in this regard.

My question was about we9le specificaly. It's a little shame that it was so long time ago, you can't recall any good or bad points about the game, but that's ok. At least you're honest.

I would encourage you however, that if you want, or would like to make in the future, comparison between "old PES games", and "next gen games" you do it in comparison with we9le as this is the milestone of the "pre next gen" pes franchise, if you would like to divide it that way.

You might be quite suprised at what you'll find when you do it carefully. I'm old time gamer myself, and I can tell you for a fact. In terms of PURE realism, we're not speaking now about 360, or graphics, or animations(so visuals). In terms of pure realism of football game, there is simply nothing better than we9le till this day. And yes, I played both pes2011, and fifa11, as well as all the pes games after pes5, and also a few before that, and I know and am confident that what I'm saying is not an opinion, but a fact.

cheers

Ok, mate, I'll try get my WE9LE up and running when i get a chance as i still like PES.

What i mean I'm sure Jimmy means is that PES 2011 in technical standpoint, elements such as the dribbling system, passing (manual etc..) and individually are so far ahead in terms of depth of PES 5 or WE9LE it's too much to go back.

Certian things in WE9 LE which are very good still, tactics are blow away by PES 2011, look at the tactics thread. You will not believe the things the game is caperble of

not this is NOT a criticism of PES 5/WE9 at all man! in fact it's just a PS3 engineered game doing thing a PS2 engineered game can't. Si i won't criticize PES 5 for not being as realsitic in a pure sense.

So i understand, even for me it's hard to go back to a much easier, rigid drilling system and game which has loads of individuality in abundance but can't compete against something next gen.

PES 2011 is the ONLY football game which beats PES5/WE9 in pure realsim, So i almost agree with you. PES 2010 AI was good but the game was severely rigid and broken, FIFA 08 had great inertia and player momentum but was broken and the rest of the FIFA and PES games since then have been arcade games with numerous flaws and exploits.

PES 5/WE9 is still the greatest football game to ever be released. i say that in a overall sense as a complete product and how good it was at the time rather than in pure realism terms. I mean let's face it PES 2011 is still not the finished article like PES 5 WE9 was.


Anyway, we probably have to agree to disagree .

 

[soyo]

Anyway, we probably have to agree to disagree .

No problem man

I respect both of yours opinion, so there is no problem.

I see your point about those "technical stuff". Ofcourse, I can't deny that 360 is different than 8 directions(it's not 8 ofcourse, but you know what I mean). I also can't deny that on paper there is more tactical options, and the dribbling system might seem more free. (you had manual passing in we9le though)

So in terms of technical OPTIONS, pes2011 is better, ofcourse it is. I mean this is game from 2010, we9le is game from 2006, so it's more than obvious But keep in mind that more options DOES NOT make more realistic football game from the get go, and here is where the problem lays. Options are there, but are they utilised in the best way? Are they part of the BALLANCED game? You can answer that when you play we9le.

All I can tell you, is that because many, many, MANY people never heard of WE9LE before(around 90% of the people I drawn to my FB group, which was about 300 in 3 months, had no clue what we9le is before they saw my posts), and even more never played it(they heard it's great, but never had a chance to try it, and I had couple people like that who join our group and told me that), the bar was set much lower for pes2011 than it could if we take we9le in the picture.

So i understand, even for me it's hard to go back to a much easier, rigid drilling system and game which has loads of individuality in abundance but can't compete against something next gen.

PES 2011 is the ONLY football game which beats PES5/WE9 in pure realsim[...]

Wait with this untill you play couple matches of we9le with me online. You might be suprised

Trust me, there is a lot of people who played pes2011 before, had the same opinion just like you and probably many more who read my posts over past couple months, and thought PES2011 is the best game to play till date. Sufficient to say, once they tried we9le and played couple matches... they stopped thinking that anymore , and are playing mainly or only we9le, ever since.

 

[Escobar]

Wait with this untill you play couple matches of we9le with me online. You might be suprised

"I would give you a point that PES2011 is overally better, more realistic football simulation than WE9LE."

You've said it yourself the most realistic football game at the moment is pes2011. Which is understandable.

 

[Rob92]

I'm going to see what all this fuss is about with WE9LE - I played it briefly a few years ago due to the praise it received, but soyo has been very persistant to say the least .

I've managed to get the game to work, needed to put it on low detail in windowed mode to stop it crashing (strange problem nobody else seems to experience!). Looks crap but I'm not bothered about that .

About to give it a bash with my 360 controller .

 

[Rob92]

First impressions;

It's great for a foul to be called a foul .

Long passing + dribbling are useless.

The AI puts better attacks together in offline matches (5 star)

360 degree control and manual passing are sorely missed.

The R2 + direction first touch (stop and face direction) is great.

Super cancel is more responsive.

More to come later, will have to play online .

EDIT - Still getting random crashes at the start of games .

 

[soyo]

You've said it yourself the most realistic football game at the moment is pes2011.

I never said such a thing and never will. With pes2012, or pes2013 or some other game, maybe I will, if I will have reasons to.

First impressions;

It's great for a foul to be called a foul .

Long passing + dribbling are useless.

The AI puts better attacks together in offline matches (5 star)

360 degree control and manual passing are sorely missed.

The R2 + direction first touch (stop and face direction) is great.

Super cancel is more responsive.

Rob, take it easy with those impressions :]

ps. Dribbling is not useless man, unless you expect it to be unrealistic and skip past 2-3 guys in every play you make

More to come later, will have to play online .

WHEN?

I'm waiting

EDIT - Still getting random crashes at the start of games .

That shouldn't happen. Also this thing you have that you can't play it fullscreen also is something new. Check if you installed everything properly.

 

[Escobar]

I never said such a thing and never will. With pes2012, or pes2013 or some other game, maybe I will, if I will have reasons to.

And there are no faults in PES2011? Because if it was like that PLUS 360degree system, I would give you a point that PES2011 is overally better, more realistic football simulation than WE9LE.

Here you go

 

[vivek1412]

Been playing we9le all this time... thanks to LUK..
i have to say this game is so so enjoyable!
i have to highlight some key points here:
1. People raving about 360 passing on pes2011, would know that u have the general passing in We9le game which directs the pass mostly, where you would want it to be, mostly, and for other situations u can always use super cancel.
2. the movement and the flow of the game is superb.
3. the defense AI is particularly good, not like the dumb-fucks of pes 2011 who jus let the ball roll in front of them.Thats the most annoying part there. With WE9le, you wont find ur defenders acting like fools. Infact the awesome part is how the wing back mark the oppostion wingers, they just get stuck to them
OK i know the freedom, individualism is not there like in pes 2011, but still its very enjoyable.

3.the attack and defence AI, both are good, forms a perfect balance between the two. although the field seems very small and you get less time for buildup, but for a 10-15 min game, this is what i would like.You can get hammered if you are not positioning yourself welland at the same time can hammer oppsition if he is complacent. With pes2011, setting the tactics ensure a certain amount of laxity towards the game..Also it encourages cheap play.

4.the aerial balls are just fantastic, the through balls are also good, wont say it is better than pes 2011, but its beautifully balanced.

5. The animations like muddy kits during okay, colliding animations, injuries etc all are great.

PS: Been playing this for over 2 months now, n desparately craving for new OF and patches. all thanks to Luk and team.
Also tried some pes 2011 lately, and it felt easy really. i mean just use the through pass button and mostly it gets to your player on the wings, these defenders just dont care about these through passes Also i can tackle the hell out of the player after he has passed the ball without getting punished,
bottom line is i like WE9LE more than pes 2011 as its more enjoyable!

 

[chopa]

this is a word from man who played ISS from the beggining and played 99.5% of his matches vs human opponent

Konami got it all wrong after 2 points...

first, I remember like today, when Seabass had look at WC 2006 in Germany and decided that "defenses" win games...thats why we got arcadish PES6 with similar goals all the way...because he cropped pes5/we9/we9le defence structure...all of sudden you were able to come in 3 passes in front of opponents goal, midfield game was non existant, star players aliens, and attackers always coming first when goalie rejects the ball, goalies animations suddenly became so unrealistic...

with pes6 lost his soul and became a arcadish game

second downfall was importing next gen...pes2008 was utter rubbish, pes2009 even worse with full sprint 90 degrees dribblings, pes2010 total crap with loads of AI mistakes and rejections that so lame preffer attackers...2011 was totaly random, who gives a heck about manual passing and 360 degrees when Your stupid defender doesnt move his leg 2cm to get to ball...it is just UNBELIEVEBLE to see, how your players react to balls and passing lanes in WE9LE/pes5 and how they react in game 5 years later...during the years i couldnt believe that KONAMI stripped so many good stuff from WE9LE that werent present at more modern games...the whole forum wouldnt have enough bandwith ...for example, you had an option, if You had skill, to decide how long and how high is going a lob shot...from pes6 they killed that and put l1+shoot and AI to decide in various situations how the lob will look...I could go with those examples for hours

ball pyshics, goalie reactions, duels, similarity to real life players style, shooting (what the hell with that all balls have trajectory like cr7 going up shoot?)...all together, major downfall from a game 5 years older...are You kidding me, KONAMI?

when playing pes2011, im getting a feeling that im playing a "fixed game", that my defenders or goalie got "some money" to lose a game for a bookies ...

yes, we got nice graphics, but somehow we lost gameplay that used to be fun and REAL...i will always remember this sentence from PES guru, my friend Juce, creator of Kitserver

I simply cant believe how many situations are present in modern PES games that look like You dont have impact at all, so much random stuff...in we9le that feeling is almost non existant and that is why that game is BEST EVER!

 

[sattan_hussein]

I can see soyo opening The Church of WE9LE any day. So many followers already.

 

[Farrou]

can messi's first goal be repeated by anyone in pes 2011??
YouTube - Highlights 3-1 Barcelona FC vs Arsenal - Champions League 08/03/2011

 

[angelzbl0od]

Hey guys I have to jump into the convo here.......... I must agree with Luk ... I have been playing pes and we games since we7 and have spent many hundreds of hours playing. Me and some buddies have done many leagues and tournaments. Starting with we7 I went on to we8 and then we9 then to pes5 then pes6 and pes2008 after that I stopped buying soccer games and only playing the demos. Mind you these are the only ones that i have put MANY hours into i have played many others also including many fifa titles. After speaking to Luk and hearing about we9le i was very skeptical also but having now played well over 150 matches online and offline i must admit Luk is correct we9le is the most balanced, realistic, and entertaining game in the series. Yes the graphics may not be as good and 2011 may have some more features but as far as gameplay goes there is no comparison we9le wins in almost all catagories. So if you just dont like the graphics or have never played it i seriously reccommend playing we9le for at least 25 games before badmouthing it just give it a chance its amazing.

(and btw I SUPPORT NEW GAMES VERY MUCH IM NOT JUST SAYING THIS CAUSE I ONLY PLAY OLD GAMES, I AM NOT ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO IS AFRAID OF ANYTHING NEW I LOVE ALL GAMES AND THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST"

 

[Musy]

Saw Luk's 'most realistic football' gameplay videos. Looks fun. Question is, in Luk's church of we9le do you guys play much 2vs2 matches on that game server thing? That's my only addiction when playing online pes.

 

[kobayashi]

Also tried some pes 2011 lately, and it felt easy really. i mean just use the through pass button and mostly it gets to your player on the wings, these defenders just dont care about these through passes Also i can tackle the hell out of the player after he has passed the ball without getting punished,
bottom line is i like WE9LE more than pes 2011 as its more enjoyable!

Yup, definitely playing on 10 minutes!

I never play 10 minutes it's too short for the sim factors to kick in enough and through balls are too effective, it's a different game on 20!

Yes the graphics may not be as good and 2011 may have some more features but as far as gameplay goes there is no comparison we9le wins in almost all catagories.

Really, if you say that i don't think you understand just how good the tactics, dribbling, individuality and passing is in PES 2011.

If you get a very good understanding of these factors it's amazing in PES 2011, way, way beyond WE9LE but i mean in everything else i think you have very much a case and argument to say its better but those 4 categories i mentioned are vital.

 

[ap7]

first of all, i think we are going off-tppic, this thread is about comparing pes 2011 with real football, not with other pes games in the series

anyway i remember when i first played we8le and i have to say, with a good patch, i had loads of fun in my beloved PS2, i remember ximelez macco and almost every player could perform a flip-flap, that couldn't be performed by all players in the "regular" we9

don't have a lot of memories about the game tbh, but i do remember most of the old-gen pes games were kinda arcadish, which i hate, but i do remember long-range shooting was harder than in pes 2011, i mean, i almost get a 30 m goal every match, and not even with the greatest long range shooters; i remember defending was a lot better, for yourself and the com, i don't really know why has konami made defending so poor and lame in the most recent game, even pes 2010 was very acceptable, when you press the pressing button or the com pressing button, your defenders will just chase tha player in possession but won't even try to take the ball away from him; i remember goalies had less animations, but they were a bit more effective than in pes 2011; i also remember collision animations worked perfectly, not like in pes 2011 when you slide tackle from behind and the player jumps like a homo and falls on his butt, the animations when the players were shoulder to shoulder were also way more realistic than in pes 2011; i remember small details like the ones you guys mentioned about the mud in the players' socks and shorts, or the chance to make a player wear short socks like totti for example, or when you were playing a match, you could actually hear the chants of BOTH the home and the away team, i also miss the feature that allowed you to wear the home shirt with the shorts of the 2nd kit; anyway, i won't mention all the features i miss because it will take me the whole damn day

if only we could have a new pes 2012 with these small but very delightful details back, plus fixing the defending, shooting and all those rubbish animations, i think we could finally have the perfect football game

 

[vivek1412]

if only we could have a new pes 2012 with these small but very delightful details back, plus fixing the defending, shooting and all those rubbish animations, i think we could finally have the perfect football game

IF and thats a big IF.. Konami could easily bring back those lovely details which made us fall in love with pes! but thats how the Marketing, sustainability of any product works. They would always take away/give you things in small packages! The idea of a perfect game would never be reached.

but as that famous Lombardi's saying, - "Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence".

 

[ccshopland]

Don't care if we've all gone a bit off-topic, loving this thread.

I too, have ditched PES2011 too many unplayable things in it. Had a copy of PES2011 PS2, was okay but again not for me. PES6 for me is the best footy game out there and am still playing it like mad -

BUT - I'm interested in the WE debate.

Particularly to Soyo - is WE9le like PES5, I have PES5 in my closet and am willing to give that a month or two to get converted.

If it's not like PES5, then where do I get my hands on a copy of this WE9le?

Am open to anything, like I said for me it's PES6 ALL THE WAY, but you never know...get back guys

 

[vivek1412]

Don't care if we've all gone a bit off-topic, loving this thread.

I too, have ditched PES2011 too many unplayable things in it. Had a copy of PES2011 PS2, was okay but again not for me. PES6 for me is the best footy game out there and am still playing it like mad -

BUT - I'm interested in the WE debate.

Particularly to Soyo - is WE9le like PES5, I have PES5 in my closet and am willing to give that a month or two to get converted.

If it's not like PES5, then where do I get my hands on a copy of this WE9le?

Am open to anything, like I said for me it's PES6 ALL THE WAY, but you never know...get back guys

WE9LE is more balanced than pes5 and definitely better than pes6.
Soyo and team have updated files and patches, which makes it even more enjoyable.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

So what is this game available on? PC only? Where from?

 

[soyo]

Here you go

You don't see "IF" condition that I gave there?

Been playing we9le all this time... thanks to LUK..

Don't mention it

I simply cant believe how many situations are present in modern PES games that look like You dont have impact at all, so much random stuff...in we9le that feeling is almost non existant and that is why that game is BEST EVER!

I can see soyo opening The Church of WE9LE any day. So many followers already.

Naaah, there is actually some portion of people who play this game, it's just that they ain't very vocal about it.

So if you just dont like the graphics or have never played it i seriously reccommend playing we9le for at least 25 games before badmouthing it just give it a chance its amazing.

Saw Luk's 'most realistic football' gameplay videos. Looks fun. Question is, in Luk's church of we9le do you guys play much 2vs2 matches on that game server thing? That's my only addiction when playing online pes.

I'm afraid you're out of luck my friend. WE9LE is based on PES5, and as you know PES5 offers only 1vs1, unless you have a friend sitting next to you on the chair.

However if you still play 1vs1 games from time to time, there is nothing to think about here

If you like what I saw on those videos, you just have to try we9le.

If you get a very good understanding of these factors it's amazing in PES 2011, way, way beyond WE9LE but i mean in everything else i think you have very much a case and argument to say its better but those 4 categories i mentioned are vital.

Kobayashi, did you manage to run we9le yet?

If it's not like PES5, then where do I get my hands on a copy of this WE9le?

Check PM mate.

So what is this game available on? PC only? Where from?

There is a PS2 version as well, from what I know. However we are playing only PC version, as this only supports online.

As for where to get it from... check your PM.

cheers

 

[kobayashi]

yeah, i've played a few games on WE9LE, played about 6 or so games.

I'm going to put it in the other thread, his is getting too off topic here. let's stick to PES 2011 and what it could and should be doing better!