Elanimator
Championship
- 5 November 2017
For sure. Looks good with these videos but when you see the whole game, totally different story. Highlight/compilations can be deceiving.
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
yep. thats why weedens prod videos are always so stunning! the animations and single situations can look superb!For sure. Looks good with these videos but when you see the whole game, totally different story. Highlight/compilations can be deceiving.
when you mix in TS, opponent AI and the one of your team mates, lack of attack pattern, animations not fitting each other when connected and such bad stuff, the score could go down from 9.0 to 7.5, kinda!
in the end: its down to each user if he or she can accept (not overlook) the bad stuff in PES and be happy with the good stuff.
last few weeks i was playing some matches and found me frustrated sometimes when repetative opponent AI kicks in once more. but hey, i made it to 2019, and played a lot PES2019 (will go on), but it is starting to get on my nerves slightly....
same time i am pretty sure that i will have more fun playing this over the spring/summer period towards this years release.
there where times (PES versions) when i was done playing in december! so my behaviour tells some story reg. PES2019, at least to me.
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Elanimator
Championship
- 5 November 2017
I think this is the reason why I switched from NBA games when I discovered PES. When I learned about and played PES, I can't enjoy NBA games anymore.what a lovely video!!!
see the pace of the crosses and the speed of the ball leaving the head after contact!?
this is what drives me nuts in the other game.
and how natural and real the player moves to the ball, the animation starts, he nods the head, legs and arms swinging so real, he heads it towads goal (down to ground, looping over keeper, soft next to the goal post, and so on...!!), its just a joy to watch, imo! and then i sink into my armchair and watch those scenes countless times in super slo motion in the replay mode!
sure this game has some construction sites, i dont forget that!
when i create one of these situations on full manual, its such a rewarding feeling! and its that rewarding to me because it does not happen all the time (like irl)! i do fail a lot, but i keep it up (like irl)!
and this is just the header part!
first there is the cross- or pass-part. where you do the first 50% of that attack move. cross it low, how, mid high, hard low, looping high, and so on....
then use the LS to add some more detail to it (mix all/some controll options available!) like, aim for short goal post, far away penalty area, outside the pen area, and so on....
you can also add some curl, away from goal or towards goal...
endless possibilities. it offers so much and can shine so bright!
guess i am repeating myself here! maybe its down to how much i like those parts of the game and/or i want others to expirience it themselves! dont get mad at me!
It's about being creative on how you can score or even just have a chance to have a decent attempt.
In NBA, you can force each player to have certain stats at the end of the game so that their season averages are all star level, not here.
I enjoyed PES a lot on assisted, in the past. I didn't feel like I'm missing anything, during that time.
I didn't switched to PA0 until last year, then FUMA this year.
And switching to manual adds new possibilities and freedom on what you can do on the pitch.
Yeah, I love that curl(away or towards certain directions) by simply making your player face a particular direction before making a pass/lob/cross. Yes, you can do it in assisted but it's different feel and control on manual.
But then yeah, there's some construction site, here and there. lol!
I feel like we have to mention that the game is not that good, even after praising it.
Lobbedball
League 1
- 14 July 2018
So unrealistic that pass and that first time shot, it never happens in real life
Schwarzenbeck
Premier League
I was surprised that he was able to score two headers in one match.
PRO_TOO made this into a problem I have, probably referring to an earlier post of mine where I pretty much said what @Elanimator wrote above (that it seems -to me - largely a matter of luck and that it is - to me - quite unsatisfying), thus effectively setting the tone for the whole conversation which is basically: everything is fine with the headers in this game, move on son.
Since I am not on this forum since only yesterday, I know how I have to read the posts of PRO_TOOL which are often overly enthusiastic where mine are admittedly often overly cynical. Bottom line, however, is: I don‘t like to be patronized.
I also never said that I don‘t score from headers. That‘s what you made of it, in another jump to conclusion that, I dare say, carries the whiff of an attitude that only what you experience in the game (or not) is what everyone else must experience (or not).
The truth is that this game is too inconsistent to declare any experience as definitive. Some find it too easy, some find it too hard, some find it too fast, some to slow, some find it the best PES evah, some think it hasn‘t progressed since PES 6. Who is right?
For all I know this could be the only game were TrueBrits scored with a header, or it could be a Manchester set-pieces trait (he also mentions that he scored 6 free kicks in close succession which is equally weird) or it could be an effect of the mode, the difficulty level, or the assistance settings that leads to our vastly different takes on the heading system or anything else. Why can‘t these different, partly contradictory, experiences just coexist?
You wrote a while back that you gave FIFA another try, but you didn‘t like it because it played like basketball and too end to end (not quoting verbatim but from memory). Guess what? I absolutely disagree, especially with the end-to-end part, but I respect that this is your perception. Most importantly of all: I don‘t think it is you that is the problem, I genuinely believe that THE GAME is at fault here for not catering to your expectations.
That‘s pretty much how Elanimator approached the discussion. Since we both liked his post, I guess we agree to something.
- Staff
- #7,296
I do believe that headers power animation execution have an impact to the whole experience.
If we hold it longer, players are setting up for more powerful header. So they are longer on the ground, trying to create a more powerful jump in order to create more power (with the ball already approaching). When the ball reaches them, they are still at it, so they dont even have an atempt to jump.
The only way to get more powerful header is to press it very early (but in that case you often dont even see the position of your player), or to have a momentum (player running full speed for a header).
If we add to it players sometimes glued to enemy back (which came back again after last patch), we have majority of reasons for some people header problems.
Personally on @Elanimator I was very impressed with crosses. I dont use L2 coz my aim cursor is switched off. Had to switch it off, coz Advanced Shooting aim is linked to that settings and i hated it.
So my crosses are floppy lobs most of the time. So far only way to get something out of my crosses (that I found), is to use a lot of supercancel in penalty area.
@Rodchenko - Im sorry for the tone of my post. I thought you had a sarcastic swing at me. The more I was reading the whole conversation the more I wanted to edit my post.
Pes19 is inconsistent, I agree. It takes a lot of tips, tricks, advices and changes from our usual approach, to counter ballance some mechanisms of it, in order to make it enjoyable.
Me switching for the first time ever to PA0 and advanced shooting is just an example how I had to alter my approach to get some joy out of it.
But despite all the flaws, we are still playing it (a lot of us anyway). I think thats because we all agree, that underneath the rocky surface, there is a lot of potential.
For the moment it is what it is and we can only try to help each other to find some little hacks to help us enjoy it.
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
@Rodchenko as i was mentioned...
yeah, i am a very positive guy! like to see the glass always full, only a few drops missing because i stumble sometimes in life!
overly enthusiastic? i take that as a compliment, because to me its regular enthusiastic (dont confuse it with euphoric!). only a lot of people moaning and be negative (outside of video games too) all the time, makes my regular optimism look "overly".
anyway... i know about the flaws but i am tired of grinding them over and over again. because most flaws of 2019 are known and there are no new flaws coming to it, imo (only after some update fxxx's it up). but what does come to my matches here and then is new positive stuff! like when i find a new way to cross or find i new way of forcing the AI to change pattern!
another example: if my neighbours garden is rubbish, i say it once (even when i know it every day) and go on. still i am able to say his front porch is very nice decorated. and every time i come home, i can find it beautiful to look at his front porch again and again, knowing his back yard (garden) is a mess!!
but yeah, i dont want to always be right, even if my answer sounds like it. its not a fight here. there is not 100% right or wrong, i guess.
i'm just a positive realist!
bear hug, Rod!!
yeah, i am a very positive guy! like to see the glass always full, only a few drops missing because i stumble sometimes in life!
overly enthusiastic? i take that as a compliment, because to me its regular enthusiastic (dont confuse it with euphoric!). only a lot of people moaning and be negative (outside of video games too) all the time, makes my regular optimism look "overly".
anyway... i know about the flaws but i am tired of grinding them over and over again. because most flaws of 2019 are known and there are no new flaws coming to it, imo (only after some update fxxx's it up). but what does come to my matches here and then is new positive stuff! like when i find a new way to cross or find i new way of forcing the AI to change pattern!
another example: if my neighbours garden is rubbish, i say it once (even when i know it every day) and go on. still i am able to say his front porch is very nice decorated. and every time i come home, i can find it beautiful to look at his front porch again and again, knowing his back yard (garden) is a mess!!
but yeah, i dont want to always be right, even if my answer sounds like it. its not a fight here. there is not 100% right or wrong, i guess.
i'm just a positive realist!
bear hug, Rod!!
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
I do agree that headers are somewhat too random for my taste.
I scored some great headers but still felt like it wasn't about the player's stats, timing, power and human player skills.
Well, actually... now that I think about it, most of the goals in PES do feel like they are totally unrelated to the skills one has a player holding the gamepad.
It would be easier for me to count the times that I actually felt like I had something to do with the goal I just scored, than to count those that didn't.
And that problem is hard to solve IMHO. How do you add the "satisfaction" component to a football game?.
Something as abstract as that, is very hard to achieve.
I scored some great headers but still felt like it wasn't about the player's stats, timing, power and human player skills.
Well, actually... now that I think about it, most of the goals in PES do feel like they are totally unrelated to the skills one has a player holding the gamepad.
It would be easier for me to count the times that I actually felt like I had something to do with the goal I just scored, than to count those that didn't.
And that problem is hard to solve IMHO. How do you add the "satisfaction" component to a football game?.
Something as abstract as that, is very hard to achieve.
- Staff
- #7,299
Oh man, I've said this for literally years, and I never hear anyone agreeing. So, I'm not insane! Thank you.
It's the #1 reason I can't play the game - I always feel that the game has let me score, never that my shot input was exclusively the reason why I scored.
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
Yeah. It's more about memorising the spot, the power and the direction. Once you score from certain spots several times, then you know you're going to score regardless of where you aimed EXACTLY with your stick, and player's stats. That's what it feels like to me.
PES code is sodding dirty. That's why they need to wipe the state clean.
Whenever they decide it's time for a new engine, they really should just keep the newer animations ONLY, and ditch everything else entirely.
PES code is sodding dirty. That's why they need to wipe the state clean.
Whenever they decide it's time for a new engine, they really should just keep the newer animations ONLY, and ditch everything else entirely.
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
I've played half of the games in 2019 with manual passing and advanced shooting.
And I always felt like the game wasn't really prepared to be played like that. Not because I was missing too many passes (I was getting pretty good by the end of that journey), but because it feels like the game actually ADDS error to your input, instead of translating what you did with the gamepad into actual actions to the game.
Shooting felt too floaty and I think they way they programmed the directions (back for low shots, forward for high shots) is a bit uncomfortable. I prefer FIFA's way for that.
I still firmly believe this game could benefit from having a new pass assistance level: Something between Manual and PA1. And also a new gameplay speed setting: Something between -1 and 0.
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
keeping all as it is right now.... imo, what would help is better AI movement on the pitch. that unnatural start/stop mentality of players need to go. in combination with -1 (what i play) and more natural standing, walking, sprinting, walking and standing again... animations wich connect better (better "stiching"), i bet the whole AI behaviour would benefit from it. not saying its the holy grail of making gameplay and movement of players more life like, but i could think of this beeing one way to optimize stuff!
this plus adding some more organic team behaviour! so the teams moves as a whole. contract and expand... like a heart!
have a look at a real life match from above. its like a freaking organism pulsing (if its done right)!i know, i'm repeating again!
sorry.man, i need to up my english vocabulary skills!
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I never came across the feeling there was an "additional" error as the direction matched my stick input whenever i checked it. Maybe you mean the occasional player switching/awareness which come along in manual play, which can destruct your whole attack. But as FIFA is suffering exactly in the same department, it doesn´t seem to be too easy to get it spot on.
Schwarzenbeck
Premier League
this plus adding some more organic team behaviour! so the teams moves as a whole. contract and expand... like a heart!
It would be nice to have something like in FIFA where the tall CBs (Boateng, Van Dijk etc.) come to the front on set pieces and corners. I guess you could emulate this using tactics but would be nice if it was automated. Or does anyone know how to achieve this?
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
You can set that up from the Tactics/Strategy menu. You can send up to 3 defenders for set pieces.
Schwarzenbeck
Premier League
I meant them to be receivers (hang around the box on corners, not actually kick the corners). Is that what you mean? If yes, where would I adjust that?
- Staff
- #7,308
Yes I think the option is there and its called "players to join the attacks".
Again, with Konami lack of proper explanation, I was using it wrong for a very long time. I was choosing 3 MF to increase offensive force. But that option is specifically for corners and free kicks.
Schwarzenbeck
Premier League
- Staff
- #7,310
Thats another thing that really pisses me off.
There is, and always was, a lot of options in Pes that people dont know about, or using them wrong. Strategies, all advanced settings, what strategy should be paired with what, what is the best formation to what strategy... there is barely any explanation for any of those for a regular players. Instead they are giving us "Tips" on a loading screen like "press O for lob pass".. ridiculous. If you dont dig through the internet, or tens of videos on youtube, you wont know half of what you can do. Im still finding out new options or understanding old ones.. thats not how it should be.
There is, and always was, a lot of options in Pes that people dont know about, or using them wrong. Strategies, all advanced settings, what strategy should be paired with what, what is the best formation to what strategy... there is barely any explanation for any of those for a regular players. Instead they are giving us "Tips" on a loading screen like "press O for lob pass".. ridiculous. If you dont dig through the internet, or tens of videos on youtube, you wont know half of what you can do. Im still finding out new options or understanding old ones.. thats not how it should be.
normazimuth
League 1
- 18 May 2013
I think it's also used when you go to all out attack mentality. I used to notice my central defender joining my attacks in open play and wondered what the hell he thought he was doing, then realised that the "players to join the attack" setting was also affecting this.
- Staff
- #7,312
See thats what im talking about...
Most of us started playing Pes 15+ years ago and we still say "I think it also does this or that..."
There never was any official advanced manual that would explain exactly what settings affect what and how they work.
Its basically us trying to decode their game...
normazimuth
League 1
- 18 May 2013
See thats what im talking about...
Most of us started playing Pes 15+ years ago and we still say "I think it also does this or that..."
There never was any official advanced manual that would explain exactly what settings affect what and how they work.
Its basically us trying to decode their game...
Back in the halcyon days of PES, there used to be an official guide book you could buy that explained how it all worked. I never bought it so don't know how good it was.
I just checked to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks but there's still an entry for it in Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-Evolution-Soccer-Official-Guide/dp/1903511771
Actually, just reading one of the buyer's quotes:
"I still feel that PES5 lacks integrity & frequently favours the CPU against the player, but at least this books gives you a good insight into the workings of the game."
You see, the game always had cpu cheating, even in its glory days.
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
You used to never stop discovering things in PES. Even months after it was released you kept figuring stuff out.
They simplified it and dumbed it down a long time ago.
Schwarzenbeck
Premier League
Oh my god, don‘t get me started on this. To this very day I haven‘t been able to figure out what‘s fluid in fluid formations, what it actually does and what exactly the difference is to the three formations you can create „at kickoff“ etc. Redundant and weird translations into German don‘t make it any easier.
Worst thing is they explain (rudementally) what „swarm the box“ is and does, but not WHEN you should use it. You have to tune into youtube to find out.
It‘s such a pity they are underselling this the way they do.
normazimuth
League 1
- 18 May 2013
Don't wish to patronise if you were just being sarcastic, but fluid formations change your teams formation automatically, depending upon whether you are in possession or not. It does demonstrably work to a degree in that for out "out of possession", I sometimes drop a DM into a CB position to help shore up any gap that (the game deliberately makes) appear in the centre of your defence when the cpu is attacking. It was quite effective in PES18 (19 is too scripted to be as effective) and you could clearly see a back 5 form when the cpu had the ball.
It's different to the 3 formations in that they're more for an outright change in formation, like if 4-4-2 isn't working, you can try switching to a pre-prepared 3-5-2 at the click of a button, or if you're trying to hold onto a narrow lead going into the last 10 minutes, you can click to switch to a pre-prepared 5-4-1 and have your defensive strategies set to all-out-defence, etc.
You can still have fluid formations work on top of this, so when you're playing say ultra-defensive 5-4-1, you can set it so when in possession, you can have one or two of your midfielders push up a bit to help the lone striker try to snatch a break-away goal.
It's one of the most fun parts of PES, imo and also why I find playing fixed cursor (player-manager) good fun (at least in 18).
- Staff
- #7,317
I'll jump in if you dont mind.
I do get the whole "in possession" and "out of possession" options. Its a bit messy (personally I dont use it anymore), but it works to some point.
But whats the story with "at kick off"??
The way I understand it, the second ball is kicked, they swap to either in possession or out of possession. Does that not only creates chaos in the first moments of the match?
Starting lineup should be automatically adjusted to "in possession", when you have the ball, or "out of possession" if they are starting.. or am i missing something?
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
How much does "ordinary" gameplay differs from fixed cursor.
Is it only in BAL you can use it?
I'm using fixed cursor on 2k,but I've never tried it out on Pes
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Always wondered that to.
So many great features not being explained,and strange stuff not needed over explained
It is somewhat assisted. Best way to see that is try to use the O button at the top of the box, rather than from the wide areas. The O pass behavior is locked/changed to a crossing behavior