PES 2019 Discussion Thread (PS4, XB1)

[Danny Henry]

Well, its just about the basics of the sport and not about the game been a hardcore football sim. Perhaps they dont want to follow this path nomore. But this cant be called a Pro football game if it dont follow the basics of the sport. I cant imagine myself playing ie, NBA 2k and every CPU player suddently becames like Curry or Durant or James and stuff. Or on a F1 game, you can choose any car because its all the same.

Its not like you are playing DB FighterZ, and you choose Goku and you friend choose Krilin and you dont won the match with one blast because the game will level things up because its arcade. Its supose to be like this and supose to be fun! Sports games dont work like this!

Having said that, the only way I see PES 2019 is that its an arcade game.

Imo Konami only care about online and making money and thats all.

 

[Elanimator]

Is Konami still looking at these forums for feedbacks?

I just want to talk a bit about the problems of the basic triangle button (through ball), on full manual setting.

1) First of all, it's not really that manual. It finds a target player far too easily (easier than X)

2) It does very weird things to the defense. The defenders momentarily refuse to react to the ball. When u play against another human, it's very noticeable. U can actually tell which pass is triangle and which one is X or O. The problem only exists on the triangle (through ball button)

The problem it creates:

- defenders inability to react to the ball, in fact, it's like as if the defenders don't "understand" that the ball is there in front of them. This problem persists until someone takes a first touch on the ball

- defenders gets pulled by some "magnetism", automatically. I had moments when I point my stick the the right side, and the player moved to the left. This means u are forced to super cancel, every time your opponent use the basic triangle button. And even with super cancel, the defenders still don't quite understand where the ball is. U basically have to hold down super cancel and try to move your player to make his body touch the ball somehow. It's all very weird. Even if your body touch the ball, there's no animation from him to take control of the ball. It's like the ball is completely invisible to him. And like I said earlier, everything returns to normal, once someone takes a first touch on the ball.

So basically, if you are a defender, you are at a huge disadvantage, facing a basic triangle pass. Your first touch isn't really a first touch. You just happened to trip on the ball (because the defender's ball trapping animation is not activated anyway, he simply doesn't know the ball is there in front of him). This, of course, creates big problems in defense.

- Third problem. The player switching is locked, when your opponent uses basic triangle pass. You cannot switch players until someone takes a first touch

- Fourth problem. Sometimes the wrong players are programmed to come out to meet the ball. With player switching locked also, u can imagine big holes in the defense open up because of this

- Fifth problem. Basic triangle pass allows for 90-180 passing. Much easier to do big angle passes with triangle button, compared to X button. It kinda overrides body angle. X usually have errors when performing passes at unreasonably acute angles



So there's some really weird behavior with the basic triangle button on manual setting. A lot of people in divisions tend to use this button when they get into difficult situations (for example, trapped under pressure). The defensive reaction bug buys them more time. Bad passes seem to make it to the receiver easier, purely because defenders are unable to react.

If u play manual, online or offline against a human player, u must already know these sensations/reaction bugs I'm describing. It only happens when an opponent is using the basic triangle button.

It's been happening for a few years now. It's a weird thing that Konami never addressed. Take a look at this vid from PES17 for example. The ball can be right in front of a defender's nose, and there are no animation sets that u can activate, for him to retrieve the ball. Basically, he just treat the ball as if it's not there:

youtube.com/watch?v=yIj0QEWcIq4




I think the reason for this, is because the triangle pass is programmed as a "final pass" in PES.

And this creates problems in manual. In assisted, the pass paths are quite rigid and locked. The calculations to make the defenders react to a "final pass behind defense" traveling on locked path, is much easier. In manual, this triangle button pass could be under hit and fall in front of a defender. It's the degree of freedom that makes it go crazy. A "final pass behind the defense" suddenly played to feet, or played in front of defender instead of behind him, the game doesn't know how to deal with these situations. The calculations are not designed for something like that to happen. So the basic triangle does really strange things to defenders in manual setting.

I think the advance triangle does something weird as well. But the weird part is it confuses both the attacker and defender

I hope they can have a look at this and make some adjustments eventually. It's been going on for 5-6 years already


(edit: is something wrong with the youtube video embed feature? I'm getting a picture, not a video?)

Although, I'm not affected by this because I don't use through-balls since Pes2016(PA1), but that's really unfortunate that issues like this exist.

If they can't/won't fix issues that is affecting majority of the players(non-manual), it's almost hopeless to think they'd do something on issues that only affects few players(manual). They've fixed manual headers somehow, so there must be hope even if little.

Right now, manual-R2 shots is what I want to get fixed but I'm not expecting it to get fixed anytime soon.
The manual-R2 shot is working okay on Pes15 but for some reason, they broke it the next year and haven't fixed till now.

 

[rockstrongo]

Rather play Pes 18 any day of the week than this piece of shit game.
It has fouls,that's it!
The rest is horrible,to bad because it didn't use to be that before the patch.
Worst football game in a very long time,the scripting is completely mad and unplayable
Anyone liking this,go seek counseling...

 

[Alx1234]

I bet Adam and Asim still think this forum is a bunch of hardcore retards as Asim agreed to say some time ago. Don't think they collect feedback from here, at all.

I still want my falsely advertised five free PES 2016 Anniversary permanent contracts from them.

Doesn't matter if they collect feedback from here. I will be back close to PES 2020 release.

Muhahahahahaha

 

[slamsoze]

And where do they collect feedback?WENB and pesfan are down/done/gone,pesgaming is mostly about editing and OFs,and the pes reddit and twitter are mainly posts abouts MC spins.

 

[Emroth]

And where do they collect feedback?WENB and pesfan are down/done/gone,pesgaming is mostly about editing and OFs,and the pes reddit and twitter are mainly posts abouts MC spins.

Id say they have spies everywhere. They themselves might even have some sneaky accounts in here. If they are smart that is. I would.
We can disagree on many levels but at the end we want the same thing.

Anyone liking this,go seek counseling...

That really made me laugh. Even tho i might need a bit of counseling.

 

[rockstrongo]

Id say they have spies everywhere. They themselves might even have some sneaky accounts in here. If they are smart that is. I would.
We can disagree on many levels but at the end we want the same thing.


That really made me laugh. Even tho i might need a bit of counseling.

True!
Anyone playing modern Pes games and liking them needs serious PTSD counseling

 

[Matt10]

Rather play Pes 18 any day of the week than this piece of shit game.
It has fouls,that's it!
The rest is horrible,to bad because it didn't use to be that before the patch.
Worst football game in a very long time,the scripting is completely mad and unplayable
Anyone liking this,go seek counseling...

Let's not go that far. It's much better than PES 18. PES 18 had no midfield, no sense of positioning, space for days and terrible saturated pitches.

I'm seeing more of PES 18 gameplay, in relation to the directness and player runs, randomly reintroduced into PES 19 for some reason.

 

[Isslander]

Slow ass movement, confusing menus, horrible shooting, dreadful controls, these are all in Red Dead 2 but y'all like to praise that game regardless, you damn haters, let's get Daniel back in here for some real convos

Just kidding. About getting Daniel back, not the rest.

 

[rockstrongo]

Let's not go that far. It's much better than PES 18. PES 18 had no midfield, no sense of positioning, space for days and terrible saturated pitches.

I'm seeing more of PES 18 gameplay, in relation to the directness and player runs, randomly reintroduced into PES 19 for some reason.

Well no matter what the intentions of 19 are it's washed out with scripting that hasn't been seen before.
Kick off games etc,great,ML unplayable
Doesn't matter how much better the positioning is in 19,since the last patch it's unplayable.
it has something good yes,but they pretty much ruined that.
And not one player dribbling?
It's pretty laughable really.
For my entertainment I rather have a game with shitty positioning than a script fest with absolutely no dribbling Matt
But yes they've incorporated the bad from 18,but forgot the good (dribbling shooting) which to me makes this worse,right now!

 

[Emroth]

Slow ass movement, confusing menus, horrible shooting, dreadful controls, these are all in Red Dead 2 but y'all like to praise that game regardless, you damn haters, let's get Daniel back in here for some real convos

If they (konami) were only able to see, that under all this filth we are such a lovely, gentle and beautiful people!

 

[Danny Henry]

PES 2019 have none midfield also. CPU gets on the box with two passes. Well, at least on TP and SS. I refuse to play on Professional or bellow.

 

[rockstrongo]

If they (konami) were only able to see, that under all this filth we are such a lovely, gentle and beautiful people!

Like said above a few posts ago,konami has the opportunity of a lifetime to be something different,not FIFA light,yet they choose it.
Gameplay has so much potential,and some TLC for the offline and I'm sure people would play this more.
But.
Shitty patching
No D2,which means ML shit.
No updates on ML at all.
It's all Coins instead

 

[miguelfcp]

(...)
Those MyClubs and FUTs will not be enough to keep both titles going in long run.
Single player is not dead. Sooner or later theyll wake up.

I hope you're right. While I was excited when UT came out in 09 - I believe -, because the premise of the game mode seemed interesting, it and its cheap copy that is myClub morphed into shameless money-grabbing beasts. I've said this before, how both PES and FIFA are PEGI +3 when both games revolve around a platform of gambling (which is even heavily advertised in offline game modes...) is beyond my comprehension, and absolutely criminal. In my country, if I want to enter a casino I have to be +18 years old - that's right, entering the building itself, let alone play a game...-; yet I can have a football game introducing me to gambling as a 5-year-old.

As for offline, single player gaming in football games, I don't see a future. I assume most of us here grew up in the glory days of PES, back in the PS2 era, but the younger generations now have grown in the online age of gaming, and are growing up witnessing the offline game modes' slow but obvious decay. Check out PES/FIFA's subreddits, it's all about myClub/UT, and understandably so: it's where the 'buzz' is. myClub/UT is for these generations what the ML was for ours back then.

In the nearest future, I expect PES to keep on adjusting its game to the e-sports era that is already upon us, furtherly ignoring the offline, single player, because he's just not cool anymore. And by cool, I mean, they haven't found a way to make him as profitable as the UT/myClub or the e-sports player. Occasionally they'll throw a bone to keep him engaged with the series ("hey, new pre-season competitions on ML! Hooray!!!"), but forget about going back to the PS2 days where he was the center of the developers' attention. That ship has sailed and we're on uncharted waters now.
In theory, it'd be possible to satisfy both types of players, but football game developers realized that they could make a f*ckton of money - much more than they ever hoped to - with little effort. Why put in more effort to attract the likes of me - who'll only spend money on the game itself, not ever on online modes - if with much less effort they can still get people to spend hundreds, sometimes thousands after the purchase of the game?
"What, miguelfcp is not spending 60 bucks for to buy my game? Oh my. I'll be crying my heart out and wiping my tears with 10,000 dollars spent by this particular sucker."

Here's the options that player has in this environment:
1 - adapt to the times. Bye bye offline, hello brave new world of UT/myClub. It's a reasonable choice, as nowadays PES is more "myClub19" than anything else really.
2 - make the most out of the offline game modes anyway. This is a tricky one, as they're becoming more and more depleted.

If neither option satisfy you, then...3rd option: don't buy or play the game. Why are you supporting the decay of your once-beloved football game?

Anything else is just barking at the clouds. 4th option: build your own game with blackjack and hookers.

 

[Ameobinho]

Nice discussion but the bottom line is that Konami have failed to fix the following issues for years:

Injuries
Penalties
Fouls (Broken in FIFA too so I guess it's by choice)
Broken AI (low cross.Backheel BS)
Catch up bug
Goalies stuck to their goal line (They patched it by dropping the def line deeper!)
Obvious Scripting on all modes

For each issue I can lead you to two or three promises by their PR teams that they'll either be fixed next year, Or in a patch, Yet nothing is changed if not getting worse, Pure lies.

What stops them from giving us a higher replay camera angle? Is it really that difficult that it takes them 10+ years to do something that was available in PES 3 and is pretty much a standard in all sports games?

If it wasn't for the great work of modders (Incas/Evoswitcher) this game would be dead by this month, Specially on the licensing front for people who want authenticity.

We don't owe Konami anything and they've been doing a really poor job, Shutting down valid criticism despite it coming from their most loyal friends. People who used to get into fights defending the game/Adam and Konami are now repeating the same complaints from PES 2014!

 

[Jimi_Zuko]

I'm so pumped for Cyberpunk. You know it's going to be good, CD Projekt Red delivers and then some. I regard The Witcher 3 as THE best game of all time and best of all, there is NO online component to the core gameplay. None whatsoever. Old-school single player gaming at its very best.

Yeah mate, I’m hanging bad for this game, had a look at there twitter feed and there’s strong rumours game could be out by the end of this year, which makes me think if the Konami bosses decide to pull another joke of a game this year could be catastrophic cos cyperpunk will attract a very large crowd and as you said the game will be top end quality

 

[Sany023]

Let's me introduce some free imagination

1) Just come on, no talking about game now. Offline in danger.

2) Where did you get this beautiful simulator ?

1) It's not a simulator - it's a scripting rubbish, baby.

2) What's happen to my favourite soccer game ?

1) I am sorry, they had to lose all accomplishments of game, it's money grinding thing now.
Comon honey, they must earn as much money as possible. I am so sorry.

2) Who's this game from ?

1) It's KONAMI's PES.

2) What is happen with PES ?

1) PES dead, baby, PES dead ...

Inspired by Pulp Fiction fragment.

 

[vxcmplx]

Just going by 2019's gameplay, looks like the only feedback they look for are from Twitter monkeys.

Wasn't there a patch early November tho? It addressed a lot of the issues mentioned here, such as excessive AI low cross and keeper staying on the goal line for 1v1 situations. I thought I saw the forum being optimistic that they were collecting feedback here

 

[Matt10]

Well no matter what the intentions of 19 are it's washed out with scripting that hasn't been seen before.
Kick off games etc,great,ML unplayable
Doesn't matter how much better the positioning is in 19,since the last patch it's unplayable.
it has something good yes,but they pretty much ruined that.
And not one player dribbling?
It's pretty laughable really.
For my entertainment I rather have a game with shitty positioning than a script fest with absolutely no dribbling Matt
But yes they've incorporated the bad from 18,but forgot the good (dribbling shooting) which to me makes this worse,right now!

Well, I wasn't refuting a remake of the game shouldn't be in order. I'm just saying it's not as bad as PES 18.

 

[rockstrongo]

Well, I wasn't refuting a remake of the game shouldn't be in order. I'm just saying it's not as bad as PES 18.

Each to their own I guess,playing a ML on this game right now is a horrible experience,as bad as Pes 18 was before they made it more playable in the end than this is right now.

 

[Lami]

Wasn't there a patch early November tho? It addressed a lot of the issues mentioned here, such as excessive AI low cross and keeper staying on the goal line for 1v1 situations. I thought I saw the forum being optimistic that they were collecting feedback here

That excessive AI low cross is still happening every game for me, many times, and I block most of them. I actually stand in their way to stop that low cross and leave space for an easy cross and they still wouldn't cross and pass instead even if it hits me. Stupid.

 

[vxcmplx]

It's a shame that manual passing does not apply to through passes, and really weird that there isn't a manual setting for through passes. Shouldn't be that hard to implement. Advanced through passes are usually way too slow for the snappy passing that is most often required for that often crucial through ball.
Also, have they somehow effed manual headers again? They were fixed at a point, after their 'big fix' patch, but lately my players have this weird tendency to just stand still when a cross comes in and not even attempt to head it.

I don't know if the through pass concept is even necessary in manual. A through pass is just "a pass played slightly adjacent to the defense, but into the space behind him, so that your receiver moves into that space to receive it"

Well, many of the X passes can do this too.

Triangle (through ball) button just makes it crazier. It is a designated "pass to space, behind defense" button. When it's used in manual environment, the pass paths are so loose, I guess what's happening is that it makes the calculations very difficult to do, to tell the defender where to go to in order to meet the ball.

U can imagine, in assisted, when u use the basic triangle with your stick pointed to a defender, the game will always take a defender's location, and then decide on how to create this pass path. Assisted passing, it's rigid, there's a lot less freedom, so you don't have hundreds of permutations.

In manual, u can play with the basic triangle, 1 yard behind the defense, 3 yard behind the defense, 5 yard behind the defense. Or even to feet. Or in front the the defense (hitting it under powered)

Just what kind of calculations are required to get the defender to react properly? I'm not sure. It's one of these features that's broken when taken into the manual environment.

In my 10v10 team, and some of the 1v1 manual leagues I've played in, we set it to advance. So that none of use would play utilizing the bug's unfair advantage

If u go on online divisions, you'll find a lot of people playing only with one button. Just like the video I showed. Like I said, defense reaction is "locked" until first touch is taken by someone on the field. So you'll meet people in 1v1 division games, and all they do is chain this basic triangle button. If u keep passing on first touch, defenders will never wake up. It doesn't necessary win them games, but it's something people do to abuse the game nonetheless. That's why in the past so many leagues have banned basic triangle in their full manual setting requirements, just not the kind of etiquette people want to deal with

 

[vxcmplx]

Although, I'm not affected by this because I don't use through-balls since Pes2016(PA1), but that's really unfortunate that issues like this exist.

If they can't/won't fix issues that is affecting majority of the players(non-manual), it's almost hopeless to think they'd do something on issues that only affects few players(manual). They've fixed manual headers somehow, so there must be hope even if little.

Right now, manual-R2 shots is what I want to get fixed but I'm not expecting it to get fixed anytime soon.
The manual-R2 shot is working okay on Pes15 but for some reason, they broke it the next year and haven't fixed till now.

U play offline v COM right? I don't know how the COM reacts to it if u use basic triangle pass.

The problem is noticeable, as a human defending against another human using it. I'm not sure if the COM play in manual with basic triangle pass, u know what I mean? COM is COM, they might be doing a mixture of things in their passes, it's a different environment, so I don't know if you'll ever experience this defensive reaction bug

 

[Pagi84]

The more you play this game the more you realise it's rubbish and it favours no skill, no variety, counters and only 1 way of playing. Cos headers are nerfed so crossing is pointless, long shots are nerfed so long shots are pointless, no variety in shooting animations or goalie animations so scoring is boring. Can't play manual as finesse shots and headers are then broken. Defensively pressing and x pressing is way OP meaning you can't shield the ball sufficiently even with really strong players. This results in no skill at all needed to defend as you just hold press all game and your player will just run and take the ball. You feint and double tap sprint or do whatever and it doesn't matter the defender just homes in on the ball and takes it 90% of time. You can't even pass it or turn away from defenders quickly enough online as the game usually lags so online is pointless too. Then play the COM instead? Nah, every team and player plays the same so it's boring...back to PES6 & 13 and WE9LE I go.

 

[Ameobinho]

Wasn't there a patch early November tho? It addressed a lot of the issues mentioned here, such as excessive AI low cross and keeper staying on the goal line for 1v1 situations. I thought I saw the forum being optimistic that they were collecting feedback here

Just like the “monster” patch from 2018, It was a lie and nothing was fixed.

They also made small tweaks with every data update to ruin the game even further and doing the opposite of what their patches were claimed to change.

Again tbf EA are doing the same thing to FIFA so they’re both at it trying to milk money making scams instead of serving a more dignified product.

 

[normazimuth]

Rather play Pes 18 any day of the week than this piece of shit game.
It has fouls,that's it!
The rest is horrible,to bad because it didn't use to be that before the patch.
Worst football game in a very long time,the scripting is completely mad and unplayable
Anyone liking this,go seek counseling...

Speaking solely as a fixed-cursor player, I completely agree. 18 is still a great game for me on fixed-cursor, I still have many really enjoyable matches that play out very well and realistically. And it has fouls and even penalties.

19 on fixed-cursor is unplayable and the AI is broken beyond belief, particularly the human team's AI - worst I've ever experienced in PES. On a scale of 1 to 10, I would score the AI 0.

 

[Emroth]

Speaking solely as a fixed-cursor player, I completely agree. 18 is still a great game for me on fixed-cursor, I still have many really enjoyable matches that play out very well and realistically. And it has fouls and even penalties.

19 on fixed-cursor is unplayable and the AI is broken beyond belief, particularly the human team's AI - worst I've ever experienced in PES. On a scale of 1 to 10, I would score the AI 0.

What camera do you play on fixed cursor?? Thats a main reason i could never play BAL or fixed cursor. Player camera is shit. On normal camera you have two options
- either it follows the player and you cant see where the ball is
- or it follows the ball and you cant see your player.

Its absolutely ridiculous that after so many years they didnt introduced some dynamic camera, that would zoom out when ball is far away, to allow you to watch both ball and your player. And it would zoom in gradually as the ball was getting closer to you.
Again - so fucking simple..

 

[philla]

PES 2019 have none midfield also. CPU gets on the box with two passes. Well, at least on TP and SS. I refuse to play on Professional or bellow.

I don´t what formation you are playing with, but with a high line and just situational pressing the CPU aborts many attacks and rebuilds. Regarding the comparison to 2018 i see PES2019 miles ahead.

 

[Elanimator]

U play offline v COM right? I don't know how the COM reacts to it if u use basic triangle pass.

The problem is noticeable, as a human defending against another human using it. I'm not sure if the COM play in manual with basic triangle pass, u know what I mean? COM is COM, they might be doing a mixture of things in their passes, it's a different environment, so I don't know if you'll ever experience this defensive reaction bug

I play vs COM(exhibition only)... but I mostly play online-friendly against my cousin who don't use throughballs also.

I might have played against other Fuma players(very rare) before that uses throughballs(and have score against me because of the bug) but I didn't think about this issue during that time, so I didn't notice. I remember you posted about this issue a few months ago but I didn't really try to look into it as rarely play against another fuma player besides my cousin.

 

[Chuny]

What makes you wonder:

Let skip the obvious parts in which we punch Adam, Asim and the rest of the gang in the face.
But let's say you work at Konami/PES and, as we all know, they let you play the upcoming version every now and then.
Not very often. But every other month. You go into the PES 2020 booth. And stay there for a few hours. It's a very early version:
You play against another human. You think the little changes they done to the game are great.
A few months go by. They let you in to play a newer build. Which feels even better. More refined. Oh, look... they have even improved the graphics!. Love the little details! You play 5 games against your work partner. You come out of the booth feeling like "OK this is it!". Last time you played you enjoyed it but after a couple of days you were thinking to yourself "perhaps I overreacted a little. I don't know if the changes were really that big and that good. I might have been too excited". But now, it's so obvious! You have no doubt about it. The game is great!

When you talked to other co-workers who have also played against each other, they all agree. "We have a great football game this year". Dribbling? It's there. Fouls? They're there (Hey, you got two red cards in one game and I scored a great free-kick against you, remember?". Player individuality? Yup. Graphics? Awesome. So when you're asked to fill a form with feedback, you really find it hard to tell them anything bad about the next game.

But then what happens? Demo hits. People have the chance to play for hours and days. Non-stop.
But this time, it's not against another human. It's against the AI. Which they barely tested at the office. It's so evident. As evident as it is that they barely tested the game at the office against the AI because they do not care how the AI plays. Because they want you to play ONLINE. And when you play ONLINE, and the lag doesn't get in the way, you do feel it's a great game. Because another human WILL tackle you and foul you. Hell, they'll even commit penalties! And you WILL be able to wrong-foot the, and dribble past them. So the game does feel very good. So Konami wasn't lying.

They are just partially lying.

They are not dumb. EA are not dumb either.

How long did it take people here at EVO-WEB to start noticing the first glaring issues and annoyances when the Demo came out?. 24 hours? 48? Shit, I'll give you a week!
What were we saying back then? Slower pace, I like it!. Some new animations are great! Turfs are great!.
But... most of us were already talking about repetitive AI behaviour (low crosses), catch-up bug, laser-guided passes, no first touch errors, no poor controls, the AI never making a "human" mistake.

So, who's going to convince me that over at Konami (or EA for that matter) they don't know every single thing that happen and will happen with their next game beforehand? It took us less than a week. And they have the game right there to test it every day and pass it on. If they wanted to release a better game for offline players, they could do it. I'm sure of it. They just don't want to.