PES 2019 Discussion Thread (PS4, XB1)

Alx1234 said:
thanks pal ….. did you klash up the game before concluding its broken beyond repair?

if you did then i won't waste my time




no other pes allows you knock the ball in front of you like pes 2019.

if a klash-up works, its worth it for that alone.

... plus I recall there was a DP where the game played a decent game -konami obliterated the game in the end :( ....its a shame this has become an annual konami pattern
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IT played decently for a while,but that was Vs how bad it was from the start.
Low cross inferno,CPU refusing to shoot.
From start to finish it got better,to bad the start was awful.
Got no love for Pes 20 either,just to be clear on any comparisons!
But,you got me taking it out of its time out/shame corner!
Dribbling Vs 20 is enjoyable ,but my main issue with this game,put shitty gameplay aside,no D2!
That got me to stop playing it!
 
slamsoze said:
The only reason i tempted to boot up again PES 2019 until now to be honest, is the old-school R2 function . Special controls and most important better first touch and trappimg the ball and the "let L-stick" and pivot to face the goalpost move.
Since pes5 i was using R2 to pass and receive tge ball about 75% of my game. Having it completely "destroyed" in pes2020 made me loose the feeling of controling the attacking game.
Especially the pivot move is completely out of context, being implemented on the SPRINT button.
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Its still there in PES 2020. Its expanded though.

You MUST hold a direction to control the ball in that direction with R2

R1 now does what R2 used to do, so just hold R1 to control the ball dead in a stop.

Right stick now does what R2 used to do in movement with more depth.

On the streams we are still getting lots of Low cross backheel goals sadly, that's a game fundamental design flaw sadly but as i fine tune these classic team tactics them you will see the best elements of the game come out. I'm refining them so they can't be used for PES 2020 which is a better game and has better variety in AI.

The main issue i'm seeing with them on PES 2019 and its still an issue on PES 2020 is lack of fouls relevant to that era of football, there's were the gameplay mods come in. I need more fouls to make these authentic and realistic, these old tactics just don't work well with the game built for modern sanitized football.
 
Spursfan07 said:
Decided to revisit PES 2019 since a couple days, I'm having more fun than PES 2020 to be honest
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2020 is much better but PES 2019 is still good, has more flaws though like that Low Cross goal thing.

I felt as if football games where becoming very stale with PES 2019 tbh, FIFA is basically dead in terms of competitive simulation, its useless, needs a new engine and PES is just become stale with not enough budget invested into the game so it plays how it should out of the box.

PES 2020 gameplay has given me hope, but its got some huge revolutionary changes in gameplay so many having so many issues adjusting to. It has its problems also but really impressed with how the AI reacts in many of the CPU vs CPU tests I've done, even with the Striker bug with fluid formation on defence.

This is why i'm doing all the stream chill and uploads. I'm concerned and i don't want games to go backwards. We have been treading water for too long now.
 
klashman69 said:
Its still there in PES 2020. Its expanded though.

You MUST hold a direction to control the ball in that direction with R2

R1 now does what R2 used to do, so just hold R1 to control the ball dead in a stop.

Right stick now does what R2 used to do in movement with more depth.

On the streams we are still getting lots of Low cross backheel goals sadly, that's a game fundamental design flaw sadly but as i fine tune these classic team tactics them you will see the best elements of the game come out. I'm refining them so they can't be used for PES 2020 which is a better game and has better variety in AI.

The main issue i'm seeing with them on PES 2019 and its still an issue on PES 2020 is lack of fouls relevant to that era of football, there's were the gameplay mods come in. I need more fouls to make these authentic and realistic, these old tactics just don't work well with the game built for modern sanitized football.
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I know how every button works. That’s why I say I don’t feel comfortable.I reject it as an architecture. I have it as a racing muscle memory:
R1: sprint aka all the throttle related action
R2: special controls aka pivot move aka break related actions.
That’s just me although, we could just have the option to choose between classic and modern R2 function, as players from FIFA have the option to set “alternate” button settings.

As for the sweet ball receive-control I am doing the combination you described since the beginning, but I noticed two points.(I speak for 2020).
1) I don’t feel it so stable as in the older games 19-18-17
2) In each DAtapack I see some differences under similar circumstances, like the ball gets lifted to high for no reason and under no pressure or bad passing
3) (bonus) even if I achieved a sweet control towards the ball, if I try to make a sweet control but then turn my back to shield the distance of the ball from my player due to the animation sequence is so long that the CPU, that in higher difficulties has more magnetic marking abilities, steals the ball cause my players is more vulnerable.
 
The last bonus is more technical almost aesthetic sometimes, when the CPU does not warp the ball,but it bothers me combines with how rigid are the animation timings in PES. It produces a turning sloppy move that looks awkward.
IE PES 2018 online beta that had the most free and responsive but smooth at the same time movement, which was chopped in the demo and then the final version, had a similar problem, when you were starting to sprint,sometimes the AI in the beginning was confusing the acceleration animation with the close control animation, producing a strange first step and then the sprint animation, something like the FIFA games which are hyper-responsive and multiple animations can happen one after the other, making the player movement look like a clunky robot in some given moments.
 
To conclude, cause I already derail the 2019 topic, without any mood to accuse KONAMi, I think I know what they wanted to do. They tried to give more options to players like FIFA has, but given the ergonomic problems, the buttons are still eight 8 and the old R2 thAt made so many outputs, they tried to reform the button mapping,in order to produce more combinations.
But IMHO they choosed to de-construct the wrong button (R2).
Finally to close, the trap feint for me has also more relation to Sprint actions (R1) than plain R2. I feel they could leave the control as they were up to 2019 and just implement the “Iniesta dribbling “ ,finesse dribbling or whatever it’s name is, to R2+L stick. I can’t see how this couldn’t work.Or R2+R stick.
 
@klashman69 By any chance, did you figure out how to make the defensive line to play aggressively and actually use frontline pressure tactics in PES 2020? I have it set up to those instructions and put it 8/10 to be high up the pitch, but it still plays conservative and deep, just not as deep as with the opposite tactics. I can see it in the actual matches and in monthly reports (this is ML). Is there any way at all to change the defense's behavior in this game? Or maybe it's something i have to do on the pitch? Right now my team sets up so that I'm doing most defending with midfielders. It's very hard to bring the defenders up, and it's only one at a time anyway.
 
klashman69 said:
2020 is much better but PES 2019 is still good, has more flaws though like that Low Cross goal thing.

I felt as if football games where becoming very stale with PES 2019 tbh, FIFA is basically dead in terms of competitive simulation, its useless, needs a new engine and PES is just become stale with not enough budget invested into the game so it plays how it should out of the box.

PES 2020 gameplay has given me hope, but its got some huge revolutionary changes in gameplay so many having so many issues adjusting to. It has its problems also but really impressed with how the AI reacts in many of the CPU vs CPU tests I've done, even with the Striker bug with fluid formation on defence.

This is why i'm doing all the stream chill and uploads. I'm concerned and i don't want games to go backwards. We have been treading water for too long now.
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Reason why I switched back to PES 2019 was just because I needed a new feel of the game, however been really enjoying my UCL Campaign with Liverpool in PES 2019, thing is, I never spent a lot of attention to setting up my tactics in game plan so what I did is transforming Liverpool into a counter attack team and it works really well, something I've not tested in PES 2020, but was a bit bored of the scripting act in PES 2020 with 20 shots on goal and 0 goals and then AI scores in last minute.

Hope the tactics thing will give me a similar feeling back to PES 2020, because script really demotivates me to play the game right now

On Fifa, yeah they really need a new engine, the only time when Frostbite was good, was the first 2 days FIFA 17 was released. After that they patched it and the game went never back to this feeling again. As long as EA doesn't understand a ball has a certain weight and a player has a certain weight, Fifa will never give an immersive gameplay experience
 
slamsoze said:
I know how every button works. That’s why I say I don’t feel comfortable.I reject it as an architecture. I have it as a racing muscle memory:
R1: sprint aka all the throttle related action
R2: special controls aka pivot move aka break related actions.
That’s just me although, we could just have the option to choose between classic and modern R2 function, as players from FIFA have the option to set “alternate” button settings.

As for the sweet ball receive-control I am doing the combination you described since the beginning, but I noticed two points.(I speak for 2020).
1) I don’t feel it so stable as in the older games 19-18-17
2) In each DAtapack I see some differences under similar circumstances, like the ball gets lifted to high for no reason and under no pressure or bad passing
3) (bonus) even if I achieved a sweet control towards the ball, if I try to make a sweet control but then turn my back to shield the distance of the ball from my player due to the animation sequence is so long that the CPU, that in higher difficulties has more magnetic marking abilities, steals the ball cause my players is more vulnerable.
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This is the main topic of concern i have, you identified. I feel more than ever people want these games to play like a better version of PES6, PES2013 or sme of the games as you mentioned 17/18/19 but for me i really love and agree with the changes Konami have made, they have expanded the possibilities of ball control so much in 2020 with this new setup but the key is to forget about whats been done in the past and come to embrace the new changes and master them.

I did this and i'm really impressed in what you can do, the big change i feel is just holding R2 to let the ball run, the inertia, body momentum is at a new height in football video games and the new settings really make you have to work to get players body positions right. there is now more depth in ball control and manipulation because of the right stick than ever before.

Where i do agree but interpret this different is the transition is a big step away from the past and Konami have completely failed to educate people on the changes.

Thing is you have Konami's then you have the propaganda war which Konami lost many years ago, this has created an issue whee an entire generation of teens, especially anyone below 16 years of age have grown up with FIFA and nothing else. All us old bastards have too many real world commitments and projects to show how good this game is so this has resulted in a horrible situation were we have this great game, with flaws and some AI cheating aspects which heavily relate to 'AI Cheese tackling' but few to nobody can play the game at a good level bar a number of e.sports players.

FIFA a steaming pile of shit in gameplay, matters not to this generation. the masses buy and want licences and atmosphere and a game easy to play, win and enjoy. This new gen doesn't even want to get good at the actually game. There are many tutorials around but few use them, few really experiment and practice and live by a 'win by any means' mantra. They rather pay $200 to buy a good team and win by cheap measures online than just learn how to play.

There's far too much groupthink right now within the community of football gaming. Things are stagnating, we are the hardcore we need to discus this, many of us getting on a bit like myself need to set a good plateau not just for our future enjoyment but the next generation.

I've been truly shocked at how crap the footage of both fifa and pes has been on youtube this year. this is summed up with mos of FIFA's best videos re fuckers buying packs, no gameplay, just buying packs. Have to raise a glass to thekingofpes, sifopes and others who still do some good skills content, there are a few others, legends like Spooky but he now does a variety of gaming things

Anyway at one point after i get more videos uploaded i will show you some skills compilations to show people what can be done, which is a problem right now.
 
Sobakus said:
@klashman69 By any chance, did you figure out how to make the defensive line to play aggressively and actually use frontline pressure tactics in PES 2020? I have it set up to those instructions and put it 8/10 to be high up the pitch, but it still plays conservative and deep, just not as deep as with the opposite tactics. I can see it in the actual matches and in monthly reports (this is ML). Is there any way at all to change the defense's behavior in this game? Or maybe it's something i have to do on the pitch? Right now my team sets up so that I'm doing most defending with midfielders. It's very hard to bring the defenders up, and it's only one at a time anyway.
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Yes i have, the key is the formation actually, you need to move your attackers high up the pitch. if you have a 433 move the wingers and striker very high up and maybe one midfielder. Dont leave anyone too deep in midfield.

Spursfan07 said:
Reason why I switched back to PES 2019 was just because I needed a new feel of the game, however been really enjoying my UCL Campaign with Liverpool in PES 2019, thing is, I never spent a lot of attention to setting up my tactics in game plan so what I did is transforming Liverpool into a counter attack team and it works really well, something I've not tested in PES 2020, but was a bit bored of the scripting act in PES 2020 with 20 shots on goal and 0 goals and then AI scores in last minute.

Hope the tactics thing will give me a similar feeling back to PES 2020, because script really demotivates me to play the game right now

On Fifa, yeah they really need a new engine, the only time when Frostbite was good, was the first 2 days FIFA 17 was released. After that they patched it and the game went never back to this feeling again. As long as EA doesn't understand a ball has a certain weight and a player has a certain weight, Fifa will never give an immersive gameplay experience
Click to expand...

The biggest issue with scripting is 'AI Cheese tackling' the 90 minute goal stuff is all tactics, the AI maybe with the crap konami setup, sit back like assholes all game then exploit you late on ins't scripting. AI clearly fouling in the box but you never get a penalty on superstar or legend is absolutely cheating.

Like i said above, its just me and a few others trying to help the community, if we don't do our bit there's nothing from Koanmi. We can make a change.
 
In the video of klashman it truly looks fantastic, almost like rush football, imho way better than 2020. However I could never go back to play it, I hated every single thing about AI.
 
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Reinstalled it.
Master League
Professional PA0 20 min.
First game Milan(me) vs Juventus
I was 4-0 down after 22 min.
3/4 goals the same way,no way to get hold off the ball outside my own box,4-5 fast passes,then a quick one in to space,top corner finish!
I've could have been 7-0 down but my GK saved a few.
Incredibly overpowered CPU even on that level!

Next try was League mode.
Same settings/same teams
A bit better,not as untouchable as on ML,managed to get a few good attacks going.
But CPU pretty much just stole the ball when shielding/dribbling.
Got caught almost every time sprinting on the wings.
Got a little bit better when going from 0 to -2 game speed,but the CPU still feels impossible at times,just nicking the ball from me.
And I play TP/SS on both 17/18.
To sum it up for me.
Still consider this to be a very bad game
CPU is a one trick pony attacking,and OP in defence.
Uninstalling it again
Rubbish!
 
rockstrongo said:
Reinstalled it.
Master League
Professional PA0 20 min.
First game Milan(me) vs Juventus
I was 4-0 down after 22 min.
3/4 goals the same way,no way to get hold off the ball outside my own box,4-5 fast passes,then a quick one in to space,top corner finish!
I've could have been 7-0 down but my GK saved a few.
Incredibly overpowered CPU even on that level!

Next try was League mode.
Same settings/same teams
A bit better,not as untouchable as on ML,managed to get a few good attacks going.
But CPU pretty much just stole the ball when shielding/dribbling.
Got caught almost every time sprinting on the wings.
Got a little bit better when going from 0 to -2 game speed,but the CPU still feels impossible at times,just nicking the ball from me.
And I play TP/SS on both 17/18.
To sum it up for me.
Still consider this to be a very bad game
CPU is a one trick pony attacking,and OP in defence.
Uninstalling it again
Rubbish!
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I know were your coming from. Its a game u really have to play perfect to win. look here:
Skip to 3:51:50 to watch me vs Juventus 02-05

I swear and if people want to criticize me, feel free, overall i still have PES 2020 in my head so i did have to get back used to 2019 but in that match i made maybe 3 mistakes, sorted the defence out properly unlike in previous games where i got whooped but look how clinical the AI was. The AI scored from 2 of the 3 mistakes i made.

I enjoyed it, i really got into it again but it's just not enjoyable for some people. But yesterday i see why you don't like this game. The AI can be insane at times.
 
klashman69 said:
I know were your coming from. Its a game u really have to play perfect to win. look here:
Skip to 3:51:50 to watch me vs Juventus 02-05

I swear and if people want to criticize me, feel free, overall i still have PES 2020 in my head so i did have to get back used to 2019 but in that match i made maybe 3 mistakes, sorted the defence out properly unlike in previous games where i got whooped but look how clinical the AI was. The AI scored from 2 of the 3 mistakes i made.

I enjoyed it, i really got into it again but it's just not enjoyable for some people. But yesterday i see why you don't like this game. The AI can be insane at times.
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Lovely classic teams @klashman69 !
Thing is I enjoy Pes 19 until the CPU decides to attack/score,when the ball goes past your legs in your own box,and you can't stop them,if you manage to break their cut back pass,their attacker will still steal the ball and score.
It's such a badly coded so/cheat.

I know from experience I'd tackle the CPU bs easier if I played on PA1 than PA0,my team is much more on their heels,reacting than on PA0.
But in general I can't play this game,having problem with 20 as well.
One thing that stands out is that playing a league mode Vs a ML in these two games is "ok",ML isn't acceptable how bad your own team performs due to the bs TS.

I'm going to give Pes 20 another try with your tactics,and maybe @isureaper31 fix,but right now I'm much more interested in 17/18.
To me they're far better as a whole package
 
slamsoze said:
@Sany023 do you play both 19 and 20? Which do you like more?
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Yes, I play in both games.
I don't know exactly which one of them i like more or less.
PES 19 and PES 20 every of them have own + and -.
Just trying to have some experience and pleasure (or hate when scripting mode is on) from process of gameplay and virtual soccer.
 
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rockstrongo said:
Lovely classic teams @klashman69 !
Thing is I enjoy Pes 19 until the CPU decides to attack/score,when the ball goes past your legs in your own box,and you can't stop them,if you manage to break their cut back pass,their attacker will still steal the ball and score.
It's such a badly coded so/cheat.

I know from experience I'd tackle the CPU bs easier if I played on PA1 than PA0,my team is much more on their heels,reacting than on PA0.
But in general I can't play this game,having problem with 20 as well.
One thing that stands out is that playing a league mode Vs a ML in these two games is "ok",ML isn't acceptable how bad your own team performs due to the bs TS.

I'm going to give Pes 20 another try with your tactics,and maybe @isureaper31 fix,but right now I'm much more interested in 17/18.
To me they're far better as a whole package
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I noticed and i think this remained since but the AI becomes easier when you use PA0 than PA1, same with PA3 which i never use but the AI its changed regarding difficulty regarding PA settings. I stopped using PA0 vs the AI because of this and only use full manual vs humans..

Anyway its one of those things, I not happy with the whole low cross cheese which happens too much in PES 2019, thing is once you defend against it consistently, its when the game comes alive, I've noticed on most new PES games on this engine, there's like 2=3 cheap AI methods of scoring, once you defend against them then the game for me becomes very challenging and enjoyable because they really keep you guessing then work some creative openings.

I did lose a lot of games in that livestream as my defending was poor, but it got me alert and i started to get more into it and enjoying myself more with the challenge and i was getting some wicked matched by the end.

As for @isureaper31 fix on 2020. I have much respect to these guys for the work they do. What i will need from these guys and myself is mods to fully create classic football. I need more fouls from the AI and more leniency for fouls so i can play in past eras. i need the AI to be more aggressive. Modern football in general is total sanitized and has fewer fouls than ever in history.
 
klashman69 said:
noticed and i think this remained since but the AI becomes easier when you use PA0 than PA1, same with PA3 which i never use but the AI its changed regarding difficulty regarding PA settings. I stopped using PA0 vs the AI because of this and only use full manual vs humans..
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So true,we had a discussion when Pes 20 was released,and probably every Pes game since 15,that the CPU plays differently when you play PA0 Vs them.
That discussion obviously got fucked up because people who play PA1 didn't agree.
I'm all aboard on what you're saying,I'm probably playing 90% PA0 and 5-10% PA1,and I know it's not in my head that it's playing differently,it does play differently,I've always had an easier time drawing fouls on PA0 for instance.

Yeah CPU is very one tack minded when scoring in both 19 and 20.
I don't know what went wrong from Pes 18 to these two games.
I still regard Pes 18 as the last good Pes game Vs the CPU,it's very lose,the freedom of player movement is brilliant,though I prefer 17 for it's very good and unpredictable CPU,still like 18 a lot.

Would be a dream having a retro Serie A from its golden era 91-95.
That's why I was so glad seeing that old Juve team you had!
Any tips making 19 playable/enjoyable?
Or is it "it's the way it is..sorry man!"
 
rockstrongo said:
So true,we had a discussion when Pes 20 was released,and probably every Pes game since 15,that the CPU plays differently when you play PA0 Vs them.
That discussion obviously got fucked up because people who play PA1 didn't agree.
I'm all aboard on what you're saying,I'm probably playing 90% PA0 and 5-10% PA1,and I know it's not in my head that it's playing differently,it does play differently,I've always had an easier time drawing fouls on PA0 for instance.

Yeah CPU is very one tack minded when scoring in both 19 and 20.
I don't know what went wrong from Pes 18 to these two games.
I still regard Pes 18 as the last good Pes game Vs the CPU,it's very lose,the freedom of player movement is brilliant,though I prefer 17 for it's very good and unpredictable CPU,still like 18 a lot.

Would be a dream having a retro Serie A from its golden era 91-95.
That's why I was so glad seeing that old Juve team you had!
Any tips making 19 playable/enjoyable?
Or is it "it's the way it is..sorry man!"
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The addition to new realism levels in terms of body positioning and player physics i think is the key difference. This changed the AI and made it more difficult for them to behave like they did in 2017 and 2018.

This was the key differences between 2018 and 2019
Dribbling animation and fluidity is now based on a variety of factors, such as player and ball positioning along the defensive line, precise feint movements to make a break around the sides, and awareness of the close proximity of the opposition while turning.

New shooting mechanics with unique varied animations have been introduced, including the motion of the ball slipping past the goalkeeper's outstretched hands, reactions of the attacker who just slightly missed, and more intense/joyful reactions around the goal area.

A significant introduction is Visible Fatigue, which is a reworked, rebalanced stamina system. Players will give clear visual indications when they are tired, with their stamina level impacting how they play. How you manage players during a match and when you make substitutions could be the difference between winning or losing.

Improvements have been made to make the movement of the ball more natural and varied. The trajectory of the ball is now based on posture and how the ball was kicked. Also, situations like the ball bouncing off the goalkeeper's body or hitting a defender during a block have more realistic outcomes.

Full body touch introduced last year has been further enhanced. How the ball is controlled depends more on the surrounding situation, allowing for smoother and contextual trapping of the ball.
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Again, best way to describe it. with 2018 shots, passing, dribbling, etc.. had less realistic variables factored along with added fatigue compared to 2019 and 2020, so this allowed 2017-2018 to have better consistency from the AI to make choices in attack which were varied.
When 2019 was released there was a serious issue with the AI and their low cross obsession which still stayed all throughout, they added in these perfect top corner shot goals and the rest of the variation we really had to get good at the game to see. One thing which i saw especially at the beginning of PES 2019 was how hard it was for the AI to be effective just running into space with all these new variables added in as mentioned in their gameplay features release. I have this video of Henry just totally fucking up and almost falling over when clear on goal to score with so much time and space. All goals on PES 2019 at the beginning of the game cycle from the AI were through passes, either low cross or some through ball.

In simple terms. The more realistic variables you have the harder it is to make AI consistently competitive.

I think this shows how hard it is to fine tune a game when you try to enhance the fundamentals. Its one thing i seriously still do respect about PES team, this is something where i do see the always put a big effort in. Shame the guys who do the tactics and ratings shit on everything but they really want to make the best gameplay they can.
 
Since returning to this game (League mode) I can't really believe how much fun I'm having playing it.

CPU plays a great and varied attacking football,but most of all,the way I can play!

Responsive,being able to string together dribble moves (not FIFA rainbow flick bs but realistic moves) and connecting with my AI controlled players.
It's so responsive,without it being arcadish,not having proper body positions etc.

I'm still playing this on professional difficulty,and I fear to play it on TP and all is lost.
But so far this game shines,bonus being the best looking one out there.
Would really recommend people giving it a 2nd chance.
Can't speak for ML,but league mode,brilliant!
 
My gut feeling is this was pretty much the worst PES of all, although that is largely because I had been converted to fixed-cursor mode in 17 and 18, which were both excellent, but in 19, your team-mate AI was utterly broken on fixed-cursor and was never fixed by Konami - it remains the same crock of shit in 20.

However, I gave 20 a decent chance using normal switching-cursor mode and quite liked it (although that game has way too many issues) but I don't think I gave switching-cursor mode much of a go in 19, so will maybe try reinstalling this one at some point....given we now have 18 months to kill until a new PES.

One thing I specifically recall from 19 was the obviously nerfed headers - it was like Konami had feedback that heading was too easy in 18, so decided that 95% of all headers in 19 will now be nerfed, no matter context, player stats, etc. I even bumped the heading stats of my players to be 99 and still the glanced header just high and wide recurred with monotonous regularity.
 
normazimuth said:
One thing I specifically recall from 19 was the obviously nerfed headers - it was like Konami had feedback that heading was too easy in 18, s
Click to expand...

True,getting headers properly is tough,probably had one in 8 goals (4 games)
It was way to easy on 18,maybe to hard here,feels like the CPU defenders are very tight on you when crosses comes in!
 
Stepped up to TP (PA1 20 m) for my SPAL league mode, and my game Vs Sassuolo played pretty hassle free,I know I'd lose it if I played the same game on ML,but here players are reacting properly,you can steal the ball,you win 50/50 battles,you don't get bullied off the ball etc.

I'm really liking what I'm seeing and playing
2-2 draw at home and I managed to sneak in a header from a free kick in the 87th minute.

Btw @normazimuth heading is way better on TP and PA1 than on PA1 and professional
Isn't heading pretty bad on 20?
Remember playing PA0 there and I couldn't head for shit!


Liking this game alot!
 
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