PES 2019 Discussion Thread (PS4, XB1)

Emroth said:
Especially Cup Match in Europa League was dreadfull. Against Vittesse. Me - nearly 20 shots, half of them on target - 1 goal. AI - 3 shots - 2 goals.
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That's the big problem for me. People talk about "scripting"... I don't believe in it, or at least, I wouldn't call it that. But what is true (and repeatable) is that for every clear-cut opportunity I get against the keeper on 2019 (Top Player), using basic shooting, my world-class striker won't even hit a shot on target 8/10 times (I have to use manual shooting, and even then the keeper pulls a miracle save out of the bag half the time). No matter my aim (on basic shooting), no matter how easy the chance is.

The AI, however, score nearly every shot on target. PES has had this exact same feeling of AI cheating from day one. I remember writing a letter to Konami in the PS2 days (being an optimistic, stupid child) begging them to stop the AI cheating.

In the PS3 era I realised that it was probably a CPU limitation that meant it had to cheat in order to be a challenge. But now? There's no excuse - it's embedded deep in the core of PES and it's why I think I'll never truly love PES again.

Not unless it becomes something else entirely...
(Which I don't think most of us here even want!)

It's why every year, I love the other game, at least for a short period of time (sometimes more). Because it cheats nowhere near as much. At least, not against the AI - and after a year of being cheated, it's such a wonderful feeling.
 
Chris Davies said:
That's the big problem for me. People talk about "scripting"... I don't believe in it, or at least, I wouldn't call it that. But what is true (and repeatable) is that for every clear-cut opportunity I get against the keeper on 2019 (Top Player), using basic shooting, my world-class striker won't even hit a shot on target 8/10 times (I have to use manual shooting, and even then the keeper pulls a miracle save out of the bag half the time). No matter my aim (on basic shooting), no matter how easy the chance is.

The AI, however, score nearly every shot on target. PES has had this exact same feeling of AI cheating from day one. I remember writing a letter to Konami in the PS2 days (being an optimistic, stupid child) begging them to stop the AI cheating.

In the PS3 era I realised that it was probably a CPU limitation that meant it had to cheat in order to be a challenge. But now? There's no excuse - it's embedded deep in the core of PES and it's why I think I'll never truly love PES again.

Not unless it becomes something else entirely...
(Which I don't think most of us here even want!)
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Its possible to find a middle ground, tho. Of they balance it right it wont be as frustrating and in your face as it is now.
Im sure 17 has this mechanism as well, same as all previous games in series. Yet 17 is not half as infuriating as 19.
19 is by far most "scripted" offline Pes I have ever played.

Like we said before - they must have increased the input of this mechanism in 19 for some reason. Hopefully they used this year to find the right balance.
 
Emroth said:
Like we said before - they must have increased the input of this mechanism in 19 for some reason. Hopefully they used this year to find the right balance.
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But if that's true, surely we can't accept that it takes a whole year (and a new release) to tweak response times.

I just don't think it's possible to fix as it stands. I think PES's AI and the "cheating" is a limitation of the engine, and the only way we'll see the back of it is by ripping up the code base and starting again. Which I don't think will ever happen, because (from a CEO's perspective) there's too much of a risk that people who buy PES every year won't like how it feels when it's not PES any more.

I've been truly astonished playing 2017, 2018 and 2019 back-to-back this week and realising just how little difference there is between them all.
 
Chris Davies said:
Because it cheats nowhere near as much. At least, not against the AI
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Only reason i played more fifa 19 than Pes 19.
If they could have a "cleaner" game I'd play more Pes.
Haven't played a single game of fifa or Pes since early April,simply because they don't represent football at all.
Where's the ugly side and fierceness of a football match?
The wreckless challenges the pushing and showing?
The straight red cards,the multiple cards for a group of players etc?
Playing these games are like playing some dolled up and white washed version of football, completely uninteresting!

Booted up Pes 17 an hour ago,and a game from 2016 feeling more relevant and refreshing than Pes/FIFA's last two games says it all.
I have no faith in Konami or EA this year,same shit different year on the package,that's all!
 
Chris Davies said:
But if that's true, surely we can't accept that it takes a whole year (and a new release) to tweak response times.

I just don't think it's possible to fix as it stands. I think PES's AI and the "cheating" is a limitation of the engine, and the only way we'll see the back of it is by ripping up the code base and starting again.
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I dont need it gone. I want it to be more subtle. Like Pes17, at acceptable level. Challenging, but not infuriating.

Its like teasing my daughter. Sometimes I buy her chocolate egg and when she reaches out to take it, ill lift it up. She is pissed off, but laughing and trying to reach it. But it has to be possible for her to reach it. If I put it up on a top shelf and walked off she'd go fucking ballistic. :LOL: And thats Pes19. Once AI needs a goal its a top shelf (finishing and passing) and it just makes you wanna punch the heads of them.. :LOL:
 
Im reading Pes20 thread and didnt want to write it there, as its more related to this, but I think there is a chance for a decent offline experience next year.

I honestly hate the way they are tweaking gameplay with each Data Pack, without saying what they did, but they are definetely doing something.
Pes17 - you guys say it was dreadful on release. Now its the most praised new gen Pes. 18 got polished over time and its a decent game as well.

As for 19 - played more matches last night and I have to say - it was enjoyable.
I even saw some skill moves from AI, proper shocked I was.

The only two issues that I see now is AI laser guided frenzy after losing a goal and no shots from distance (user shots are very ineffective and AI doesnt even try, probably coz they know they are ineffective)

So coming from August, when this game was an absolute joke, low cross spam, Goalkeepers glued to the line, AI attackers stopping when 1on1 just to pass the ball to the wing....... the game now is standing on a pretty solid ground.
Ball also got more free after last update, there is more deflections and randomness.
Last night I had AI having a shot, ball deflected of one of my players shoulder, flew above my goalkeeper and bounced on the crossbar TWICE.
It was so random and surprising, I've never seen anything like this.

I just hope that they wont go for some revolution (on the pitch) next year, just build on the ground they prepared this year.

This gameplay, as it is, just needs small tweaks:

- more responsiveness, so we can defend effectively
- player/team ID
- long shots and shot variety
- more subtle AI momentum.
- some work on collisions and referees.
 
Only reason i can see for it is improving ball physics. Its very different from pes17. And once you have different ball physics - everything behaves differently. But with 19's physics they cant go much further, hence im hoping for building upon this base.
 
Like we've discussed before,on the ball Pes 19 .
Of the ball, absolute rubbish.
So yes and no pal.
They have to make a smarter and better AI.
I can understand why some don't have our opinion on this game,the ones that only play hum v hum.
I bet this game is great doing that
 
I'm more or less happy with the game on the field. It's on the right lines.

The biggest issue is the deep defensive line. And swarm the box tactics used by the computer, because this allows you to literally just walk through midfield with the ball. Nobody engages the ball carrier

As always I would like to see the AI play a more technical game to replicate possession heavy teams, as opposed to every AI controlled tram playing on the counter.

I think they need to look at keeper animations a little aswell. Some of the animations are great, but they need to get rid of the unrealistic diving animations where the keeper dives and catches the ball. When this happens, it sometimes looks like the keeper has begun his dive before the shot is actually taken. Looks too scripted.

And also please sort out the nets. Lmao they're terrible still.
 
rockstrongo said:
Like we've discussed before,on the ball Pes 19 .
Of the ball, absolute rubbish.
So yes and no pal.
They have to make a smarter and better AI.
I can understand why some don't have our opinion on this game,the ones that only play hum v hum.
I bet this game is great doing that
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Not really.. Mainly due to AI team mates, team mates running into each other and unresponsive defense. Dissing offline AI affected whole package. We do, however, got much more crap to deal with than online people.
 
Just played a game,won 4-0,but it's by far the worst of Pes 17-18-19.
Enjoyable game,but you still see the crap that's been plaguing this game all year long.
Not responsive enough,AI being one dimensional etc.
But a fun playing a one off game though
 
rockstrongo said:
They have to make a smarter and better AI.
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100% agree. But you did say you havent touched footy games for a long time, so you missed last two DP, like me.
AI has improved, if it comes to creativeness and attacking. It doesnt feel forced, fake and boring like it was. Thats why I was saying that the ground is pretty solid now.

Edit. Just saw you last post now. Ignore that one so. :LOL:
 
Emroth said:
100% agree. But you did say you havent touched footy games for a long time, so you missed last two DP, like me.
AI has improved, if it comes to creativeness and attacking. It doesnt feel forced, fake and boring like it was. Thats why I was saying that the ground is pretty solid now.

Edit. Just saw you last post now. Ignore that one so. :LOL:
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No worries brother.
I think it's miles better than before,CPU makes bad mistakes now,had a CPU free throw that missed the player and went out.
It's much better for sure.
I counted that the CPU had 6 chances this game,4 were one touch pass into the box and a shoot.

Maybe it was 6/6 of those before,so it's better,but they're still there,when other options are available for the CPU,and if I had played Inter instead of a fake Serie B team,they'd probably score in all of those.

But game is much better now,if they can build from this,go for it.
 
Emroth said:
And... you had a clean sheet. ;)
So AI didnt go as mental as they did before...
To get a clean sheet few months back was borderline impossible.
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Yeah I was surprised having a clean sheet,if I continue my ML I have Real Madrid/juventus/inter coming up,let's see how that holds up.
Thing is it was probably because they missed every shot or saved by my keeper,not due to good defending,that's what's worrying me.
 
rockstrongo said:
Yeah I was surprised having a clean sheet,if I continue my ML I have Real Madrid/juventus/inter coming up,let's see how that holds up.
Thing is it was probably because they missed every shot or saved by my keeper,not due to good defending,that's what's worrying me.
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Takes a while to adjust back to defending after 17. Took me few matches to get my head around it again. Its so unresponsive to clear the ball and so difficult to tackle..
On a flip side - its good to see AI errors.
 
It's like, why oh why is this a thing that can be done? Would be ok if there was any downside to it but you aren't punished for this sort of formation. It just works for some reason. Disgusting.20190608_212532.jpg
 
Gale Kast said:
It's like, why oh why is this a thing that can be done? Would be ok if there was any downside to it but you aren't punished for this sort of formation. It just works for some reason. Disgusting.View attachment 16467
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Yeah it's because midfield play is not as important as it should be especially online.It favors end to end and counter attack more and doesn't punish you enough for playing with only one cdm.Also pressing is op and they're able to press and steal the ball even with the attackers so no need to have 2-3 midfielders.I personally still prefer and use the 4-4-2 flat though with Marcelino and having two players on the centre of the pitch.

Santos is the most op coach in myClub with his 4-1-3-2 system and nearly everyone has him and playing only with one cdm and 5 attackers.But you still don't get punished for this approach but it favors you because of how the gameplay is.
In real life the midfield part is the most important of a match and if a team plays with only one cdm will get destroyed in every match.The funny thing is that Santos in real life is a defensive minded coach who cares about not conceding first more than playing attractive football.But in the game it's the opposite lol.

I'm thinking that one reason that they go for this end to end approach is because the match is only 10 min so it has to be ''fun'' and exciting and being able to have enough chances in this short time.
I would prefer it if they make the default match a 15 min one if it meant a more balanced approach where the midfield play has an essential role and someone who doesn't respect it would get punished.
 
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After returning to all my ML (Pes 17-18-19) I have exactly the same opinion on this game that I had before patches.
It's an awful game.
Same non stoppable AI scoring whenever they want,doesn't matter if it's a good or bad team the ball just goes around/through/over you and a direct shot in goal.
More variation in top or low finishing though,but still the same method of operations.
Really awful game.
Seriously hope the revamp the AI for Pes 20.
 
rockstrongo said:
After returning to all my ML (Pes 17-18-19) I have exactly the same opinion on this game that I had before patches.
It's an awful game.
Same non stoppable AI scoring whenever they want,doesn't matter if it's a good or bad team the ball just goes around/through/over you and a direct shot in goal.
More variation in top or low finishing though,but still the same method of operations.
Really awful game.
Seriously hope the revamp the AI for Pes 20.
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Yeh i couldnt agree more.
I have been trialing a ML(Top Player,Basic Shooting PA1,bELGIUM) where i would keep my TS deliberatley under 65 to see what would happen.
The first 7 or 8 games were really enjoyable, we had some realistic scores and was mainly 2-0 ,2-1 1-1 wins and losses etc. It went well for the first 7or8 games and i was touching mid table. But then carnage. About 7 straight pumpings by 3-0 4-1 etc.
The only conclusion i can draw is that the CPU teams TS gradually increases and if yours does not then it will be really tough and the AI will have the majority of the game in a power play momentum boost. Its a shame because the early league matches were great, realy enjoyable gritty matches. So rewarding when i managed to score because your having to work hard and not being assisted by some momentum thing.
So PES2020 needs to tone down the momentum thing majorly , and stop the ping pong pass pass pass shoot high into the top corner laser guided stuff. Let us have tackling , running with the ball, proper fouls and not fouls from 2 seconds after the ball is gone collisions, some penalties please, and sort out the defensive side of the midfield its embarrasing the way AI stands and watches you run half the length of the pitch.
Couldnt care less about haircuts and tattoos as long as the teams rosters are up to date and strips are fine .
 
chickenhawk said:
Yeh i couldnt agree more.
I have been trialing a ML(Top Player,Basic Shooting PA1,bELGIUM) where i would keep my TS deliberatley under 65 to see what would happen.
The first 7 or 8 games were really enjoyable, we had some realistic scores and was mainly 2-0 ,2-1 1-1 wins and losses etc. It went well for the first 7or8 games and i was touching mid table. But then carnage. About 7 straight pumpings by 3-0 4-1 etc.
The only conclusion i can draw is that the CPU teams TS gradually increases and if yours does not then it will be really tough and the AI will have the majority of the game in a power play momentum boost. Its a shame because the early league matches were great, realy enjoyable gritty matches. So rewarding when i managed to score because your having to work hard and not being assisted by some momentum thing.
So PES2020 needs to tone down the momentum thing majorly , and stop the ping pong pass pass pass shoot high into the top corner laser guided stuff. Let us have tackling , running with the ball, proper fouls and not fouls from 2 seconds after the ball is gone collisions, some penalties please, and sort out the defensive side of the midfield its embarrasing the way AI stands and watches you run half the length of the pitch.
Couldnt care less about haircuts and tattoos as long as the teams rosters are up to date and strips are fine .
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Spot on brother.
I've returned to Pes 18 for now,were I can control the Bs better.
And obviously a better and more fun AI.
Had high hopes for Pes 19 after a disappointing Pes 18 (at launch)
It must be a very good game for me to buy,and D2s of course!
 
ono5985 said:
I'm more or less happy with the game on the field. It's on the right lines.

The biggest issue is the deep defensive line. And swarm the box tactics used by the computer, because this allows you to literally just walk through midfield with the ball. Nobody engages the ball carrier

As always I would like to see the AI play a more technical game to replicate possession heavy teams, as opposed to every AI controlled tram playing on the counter.

I think they need to look at keeper animations a little aswell. Some of the animations are great, but they need to get rid of the unrealistic diving animations where the keeper dives and catches the ball. When this happens, it sometimes looks like the keeper has begun his dive before the shot is actually taken. Looks too scripted.

And also please sort out the nets. Lmao they're terrible still.
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the things u mentioned are the top things i ve been asking for and complaining about since pes 2016, pes 2019 feels a lot like an updated version of 2016, every similar passing and movement on the pitch, leave the ball physics apart this is an updated game from 2016, i guess an engine change should be implemented
 
rockstrongo said:
After returning to all my ML (Pes 17-18-19) I have exactly the same opinion on this game that I had before patches.
It's an awful game.
Same non stoppable AI scoring whenever they want,doesn't matter if it's a good or bad team the ball just goes around/through/over you and a direct shot in goal.
More variation in top or low finishing though,but still the same method of operations.
Really awful game.
Seriously hope the revamp the AI for Pes 20.
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You know dude, I recently discovered not-Greg guy from peschronicles , after a post read somewhere by @miguelfcp .
This not-Greg is one of us, has similar approach to ML, the only difference is he starts with the ML defaults. I read almost all his trip, he concluded after 15 seasons in the same team, starting fro EFL. What he wrote in his last post and all his Master League journey, concludes pretty much what we all have said all the previous months. You can check his journal and his YouTube videos here:
http://peschronicles.co.uk/2019/06/07/the-double/

To summarize his adventure and what possibly I will have or I would if I did not restart my save after each DLC. (If I add all my seasons in each save in 19, they are sure more than 15, with best moments 2xLigue 2 wins, 2xEFL wins, 3-4 PEU super cups and 4-5 bloody ICC wins, still searching for a domestic League or Cup win since 2018).
So back to summarize not-Greg, after 15 seasons, having a team full or all-star regens, he achieved to win the EPL in his last 15th season, while during the years he lost a CL the 13th season and won a EL final against Fulham , which is a power house in his future!!!! And he lost many times under forced circumstances, in CL and EL knock-out games. Except from all this he got tired, of the goal variety, noting that long shots are effective 1/100 and he found that the most acceptable and successful way to score is walk with the ball inside the goalpost, something that we all do since pes4, but which gets really boring after 15 damn seasons. Finally the forced-cheating AI was an arrow on the knee too, while you have the same group of players after 9-10 seasons and the cpu makes the game 2-2 from 2-0 ,out of nowhere, because they can!!!
All these conclude why PES2019 is a problematic Version.
What I want to say; we all knew already that, but a person having gone 15 seasons away is the best experiment, to fade away our illusions. No it does not worth to : wait for TS to go high, to wait your players to improve, to wait some seasons pass. The AI is lazy programmed and cheats it’s ass whenever it likes. Whenever it likes it let’s you Win too. It is nothing we deserve or not, everything seems given and predetermined.
 
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