PES 2019 Discussion Thread (PS4, XB1)

Chris Davies said:
Yeah @Chuny, sorry to disagree with you but every single game has limitations on realism. I mean, we're playing from a TV camera for a start, so immediately you're severely limiting how realistic the game's representation of playing football can be. We're not playing in VR.

On the "blimp" camera you don't need the radar, of course. But if you play on any other sideline camera, then... Not having a radar would be like playing from the player's POV and there being a terrible "draw distance", where you can only see players 60ft in-front of you, with everyone beyond that being invisible.

I'd play on "blimp" if it was like the "co-op" camera on the other game, where it's miles out (but not quite so high) and gently pans in and out depending on where the ball is. But "blimp" for me is too far away.

The radar is there to make up for you not having the player's vision (it's less of a "cheat" and more of a replacement for that).
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Coop is the camera I use in fifa with 20 height and 0 zoom. I love the feature they have, when the ball reach the attacking or defensive zone, camera slightly zoom in so you can see and experience better the football action. And zoom out when the ball is around midfield.

I wish we had a similar camera on PES. .
 
broxopios said:
Coop is the camera I use in fifa with 20 height and 0 zoom. I love the feature they have, when the ball reach the attacking or defensive zone, camera slightly zoom in so you can see and experience better the football action. And zoom out when the ball is around midfield.

I wish we had a similar camera on PES. .
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Funny thing is it used to be there! Just fire up pes 2011 and bam, there it is. Lots of stuff was in before and has simply been taken out. Pes 2010 master league is still the best career mode ever across both games, imo. Just taken out without any reason.
 
@SpoonyPizzas is reporting that DP5 has made the following gameplay changes:

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Man, I want to believe, but other than the bar colour change, I'm just not seeing it. That being said, he has played more PES 2019 than I have!

Also, there are lots of threads about the new "lag" popping up all the time over on Reddit (like this one), so it feels like there must be some truth to it!

Full video here:
 
spoony pizzas love the game so much that he sometimes overreacted
he also said pes2019 is one of the best football game ever and fifa is no way near pes
while I appreciate his passion about pes, he is sometimes too optimistic about pes and praise pes too much
 
As much as I really really like Spoony, this sounds like full on propaganda. Its all the things we wanted. So its hard to believe that he is only one seeing all this and people reporting here say "nothings changed" after few hours on a training ground..

As for stuff on your screen - radar is a must, like most people said.
But apart of that and scoreline - I agree with Chuny. There shouldnt be anything else.
Especially - COM tactics and their attacking/defensive mindset - i shoudnt know these things! Thats cheating! :LOL:
 
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hitmanuk said:
PES 2017 demonstrates Konami can make a great single player football game Pes2019 proves they just don't want to. The game is so bland, every player feels the same and every AI team attacks the same. It feels like since 17 they are simply dismatling team and player individuality to make it a level playing field online.
-Fouls and physicality dumbed down
-Player individuality all but gone
-Shooting pretty much the same
whoever you shoot with
Add PA3 to the mix and its purpose built for ESPORTS. Someone want to play as Stoke and the other Barcelona.. Doesn't really matter

If they carry on like this I can just see a free myclub version being the only release.
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It's certainly not a level playing field online.

My most played mode is online co-op, and while we're playing with real teams we play 99% of matches against those ridiculous MyClub teams and they have a massive advantage, especially defensively. The featured players have 95+ in all the relevant stats and often in speed/strength, plus all the relevant player traits...

They win everything in the air, sprint+pressure results in perfectly timed tackles or interceptions with massive reach (they claim anything in their postcode just by holding pressure), even from behind they charge through you and take the ball (usually no foul), perfect acrobatic clearances by mashing the shoot button...

Then on the counter they can mash the through ball button and run in a straight line with a 99 pace/accel Mbappe... A few lucky bounces a game and they bundle in a few goals with zero skill.
 
hitmanuk said:
Is this official changes.. I didn't notice any of it and conceded 2 goals by AI squaring in the box
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Not official changes, no. The official changelog lists no gameplay changes, and I haven't noticed any - BUT it must be said, it doesn't state that they've changed the colour of manual control power bars either, when they have.
 
Chris Davies said:
Not official changes, no. The official changelog lists no gameplay changes, and I haven't noticed any - BUT it must be said, it doesn't state that they've changed the colour of manual control power bars either, when they have.
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True. But, one point especially gives me proper doubts.
"AI Passing around 6 yard box removed"
Thats like 98% of the goals we were conceding. Really hard to believe people didnt notice that AI scores in more random ways now (including alleged more frequent shots from distance)
This would be obvious to bits..
 
Robbery said:
I don't believe this PR Talk about a 3-years plan at all.
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Tbf when I mentioned that, I was more being hypothetical than anything. Idk what their internal discussions are like, what their plans are now and in the future, and how they'll go about implementing their plan.

I'm sure they have some plan for they want to do. It's kind of hard to make a game without one. Whether it's a good one/whether they can execute on it well in the coming years, we shall see.

Robbery said:
In my opinion, Konami is now all about online gaming / multiplayer only. PES 19 has the worst AI for years and Konami does not even bother to improve it. They don't need to because it is not that important for a reasonably good online gaming experience. Offline gaming is another story it depents on a good AI.
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Online gaming is a huge priority. That's not just with PES but with FIFA, Madden, NBA 2K, NBA Live, MLB The Show, NHL, UFC, heck even Black Ops 4 outright ditched singleplayer. Etc etc etc.

Online is always going to get a lot of focus as that's the general directive across the entire industry and is especially the case in sports games.

I have to say, the idea that the AI does not affect online play is a huge misconception. The AI massively impacts everything you do in game. At no point are you ever controlling more than 1 or 2 players at a time. You rely on the AI to stay in position, you rely on the AI to find space, you rely on the AI to make runs, you rely on the AI to follow your tactical instructions. If the AI is sub par, as it is in PES 2019, it can really be to the detriment of the overall gameplay experience.

Robbery said:
But now they showed us that they don't care by not patching the game to a good level, like the did in the last couple of years. Not patching the game tells everything in my opinion.
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Except they did patch the game. Were the patches satisfactory? Nope lol. But they happened. And given how fundamental to gameplay the issues with this game have been, I'm honestly not surprised. Because, and I'll reiterate my point again, major issues sometimes take more than a few months, heck more than a year maybe even longer, to fix. And when patches are released, they're usually nothing more than temporary quick fixes while they work towards a better long term solution.

'Not patching that game', even though they did albeit unsuccessfully, tells you nothing because a year in the cycle proves nothing.

Now you mentioned a few years so fair enough. The last few years have felt like the game has been in flux like when there was the jump to PS3/Xbox 360. So I wonder if and when they'll settle on a vision for the game and how they want it to play.

I too am not happy with the lack how things are offline. But I'd rather play the wait and see game and decide if I'll give them my money when the time comes that throwing around absolutes about the motivations of the people who actually make the game, as opposed to the people who make ask the decisions, because ultimately I know nothing about them or what goes on behind the scenes.

Robbery said:
Maybe there will be no singpleplayer anymore when the game appears on the PS5. Only online, only MyClub. That would not surprise me anymore.
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All I know is it's in the game right now. Although that thought has crossed my mind before, I'd be really surprised if offline got removed.
 
Chris Davies said:
Not official changes, no. The official changelog lists no gameplay changes, and I haven't noticed any - BUT it must be said, it doesn't state that they've changed the colour of manual control power bars either, when they have.
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No it was stated that the colour for manual control was changed. That was infact the only thing that was stated under gameplay adjustments when you read the changelist in game. Not even the usual "minor gameplay adjustments" was there...
 
Emroth said:
There shouldnt be anything else.
Especially - COM tactics and their attacking/defensive mindset - i shoudnt know these things! Thats cheating! :LOL:
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Actually find this feature quite useful, especially when they apply tight marking to one of my players and I can adjust my own tactics accordingly or when they switch to red and I need to get my defence in order.

I consider it less as cheating, more as the digital equivalent of an assistant (the one with the note pad) telling you what you should be aware of and adjust on the fly.
 
Rodchenko said:
Actually find this feature quite useful, especially when they apply tight marking to one of my players and I can adjust my own tactics accordingly or when they switch to red and I need to get my defence in order.

I consider it less as cheating, more as the digital equivalent of an assistant (the one with the note pad) telling you what you should be aware of and adjust on the fly.
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And thats fair enough.
Thats why its good to have an option to switch it on/off. I have it all off, apart of the radar and scoreline.
Jim Beglin is telling me all about who is being market anyway.. :LOL:
 
Rodchenko said:
Actually find this feature quite useful, especially when they apply tight marking to one of my players and I can adjust my own tactics accordingly or when they switch to red and I need to get my defence in order.

I consider it less as cheating, more as the digital equivalent of an assistant (the one with the note pad) telling you what you should be aware off and adjust on the fly.
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It's like a manager giving their team tactics to the opponent's manager before the match so that they can prepare or counter it.

I don't like it. It's nice to figure out what the other team is doing by the way they play not because they already showed you what they're going to do.
 
Emroth said:
There shouldnt be anything else.
Especially - COM tactics and their attacking/defensive mindset - i shoudnt know these things! Thats cheating! :LOL:
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Elanimator said:
I don't like it. It's nice to figure out what the other team is doing by the way they play not because they already showed you what they're going to do.
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Rodchenko said:
I consider it less as cheating, more as the digital equivalent of an assistant (the one with the note pad) telling you what you should be aware of and adjust on the fly.
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Another element to this is that you're seeing everything over a really short time period. You're not observing something for 90 minutes. You're observing it for (by default) 15 minutes.

If someone starts marking a player at some point in the second half, you might have five minutes or less to spot it - and the first couple of times you spot a defender marking someone particularly tightly, you'd be within your rights to think it was a coincidence. On the third occasion, when you think "time to make a change", the ref might be about to blow for full-time.

I would argue that's not realistic...

This is (another!) example of something that might sound realistic on paper (i.e. not telling people when this stuff is happening), but in the context of a video-game where you're viewing everything from a TV position, where the length of a match is much shorter, where something "has to give" in order to create a result that would make sense (i.e. defenders can't be as good as real-life or the highest scoreline you'd ever see over 15 minutes would be 1-0)... It just "feels" better.
 
I see guys. I was not judging any of you though. I just find it extremely uncomfortable to have so many hud thingies on my screen. I like it as clear as possible. Only Scoreboard + TV Logos.
I've even edited the player indicator above their heads to make it a lot smaller (did it for FIFA 18 last year too).

But at least now I understand why you'd want all of that.
Peace and love.
 
aderow said:
I have to say, the idea that the AI does not affect online play is a huge misconception.
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I did not say that. I just said that a good AI is more important for the singleplayer offline gaming than for the multyplayer online gaming.

aderow said:
The AI massively impacts everything you do in game. At no point are you ever controlling more than 1 or 2 players at a time. You rely on the AI to stay in position, you rely on the AI to find space, you rely on the AI to make runs, you rely on the AI to follow your tactical instructions. If the AI is sub par, as it is in PES 2019, it can really be to the detriment of the overall gameplay experience.
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Of Course it is so and you are right. No doubt!
But there are very important things that do not matter at all in multiplayer!

For example, the dribbling. Offline the AI never dribbles. Never. They always pass the ball. It is passing, passing, passing.

If you play against a user online that does not matter, because dribbling is a 100% user desicion. You do not have to program a AI that is capable of dribbling to make the online game joyful.

For example, the shooting. Offline the AI almost always shoots high in the corner. There is also no variety at all if it comes to shooting.

If you play against a user online that does not matter, because shooting is a 100% user desicion. You do not have to program a AI that is capable of shooting with a lot of variety to make the online game joyful.

For example, the attacking plays. Offline the AI always tries to get into the penalty area, almost everytime. There are no shots from distance. There is no attacking in many different ways.

If you play against a user online that does not matter, because attacking is a 100% user desicion. You do not have to program a AI that attacks in many different ways to make the online game joyful.

I think it is a very strange coincidence that just the things that would be important for a good offline experience are so damn worse. Don't you think?

I hope i could make my thoughts a little bit clearer. It is not so easy to argue in a foreign language. So please be patient. :) Thank you.
 
Chuny said:
I've even edited the player indicator above their heads to make it a lot smaller
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I need to do this myself. I dont know why the hell I have player names above their heads On..
Most of the time, in the heart of battle I cant fucking see it anyways.. :LOL:

Edit: @Robbery - id like your post twice if I could. This is perfect summary of this years AI. And clear proof that they designed the game focused purely on multiplayer and ignoring every single aspect of AI that matters in offline modes.
 
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Alx1234 said:
Server switch off : For each PES the servers switch off after 2 years (so online play won't be possible in PES 2019 after approx. Aug 2020; and PES 2018 servers will switch off later this year).

My interpretation of 3 year plan explained here

To me, its logical to be hopeful that year 3 is devoted to offline play as the online component is lost.

However its only speculation because year 3 could also just be :
Adam : "Hey Tony, I'm going to hype this game up. How long does it to take for people to forget my lies?"
Tony : "2-3 years, boss."

We'll only be able to tell in year 1 of PES 2020 whether konami care about offline by going back to see if PES 2018 (year 3) has improved significantly and continues to improve over that year.

I hope that makes sense.
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Mate,the last patch that came out for Pes 2018 and could change the gameplay was in April-May of 2018.
From there on there is no more patches for this game so it can't be changed after that.And that is the case with every Pes version.So this thing that you say about how Pes 2018 will play in the third year etc after the online servers stop,don't make any sense.
It will always play like it played when the last patch was implemented,even if you play it 5 years after.
The online servers being stopped has nothing to do with it.

I think you watch many sci-fi movies..lol
 
Emroth said:
I need to do this myself. I dont know why the hell I have player names above their heads On..
Most of the time, in the heart of battle I cant fucking see it anyways.. :LOL:

Edit: @Robbery - id like your post twice if I could. This is perfect summary of this years AI. And clear proof that they designed the game focused purely on multiplayer and ignoring every single aspect of AI that matters in offline modes.
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Just unlike it and like it again tomorrow.
 
Regarding whether or not gameplay has changed after the last patch, I have to say I felt it different.
I'm not a friend of placebo (@Placebo sorry dude) but I played about 10 games yesterday night and I definitely thought it was different, long before reading what was detailed in the image posted in the previous page of this thread.

I'm not saying I like it more than pre-patch. I'm just saying it felt different. At least, in Cup Mode.
 
Chris Davies said:
This is (another!) example of something that might sound realistic on paper (i.e. not telling people when this stuff is happening), but in the context of a video-game where you're viewing everything from a TV position, where the length of a match is much shorter, where something "has to give" in order to create a result that would make sense (i.e. defenders can't be as good as real-life or the highest scoreline you'd ever see over 15 minutes would be 1-0)... It just "feels" better.
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This is what I believe to be the biggest obstacle to creating a good football simulation game. I remember a few years ago watching a video with one of the FIFA devs talking about just this, getting the proper balance so that a game can be played in 12-15 minutes but still show an accurate representation of a full 90 minute match, and how difficult it is to achieve. For them I believe it's truly a no-win situation, if they make it full simulation most games will have a average of like 0.5 goals unless players want to play a literal full 90 minute game and while I'm sure there are some crazies here that would be up for that, it's just not realistic for the rest.

Or on the flip side (and as we've seen in both games over the years) more arcade to increase the amount of chances, goals and shots which will of course lead to criticism over the lack of realism. I honestly don't know a solution, the only thing I can realistically think of to appease both sets of fans would be to have sliders, and possibly preset game modes: arcade and simulation with suggested match time for each. For example there could be an default arcade mode with suggested time of 12-15 min, semi simulation suggested 25-30 min, and full simulation suggested 45-60 min matches.

Personally I wouldn't mind playing a 45-60 min match as I do it already with NBA 2k19 (full 12 minute quarters). 2k is a great example to follow with the amount of sliders they have and shows that people are willing to play much longer matches / games if it means real simulation gameplay.
 
Robbery said:
I did not say that. I just said that a good AI is more important for the singleplayer offline gaming than for the multyplayer online gaming.
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That's fair. Apologies if I've misunderstood anything.

Robbery said:
I think it is a very strange coincidence that just the things that would be important for a good offline experience are so damn worse. Don't you think?

I hope i could make my thoughts a little bit clearer. It is not so easy to argue in a foreign language. So please be patient. :) Thank you
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It isn't a coincidence. Everything is by design or lack of. It just shows what they prioritized in the production of those titles but it doesn't always means it's indicative of the production of future ones.

And don't worry mate your English better than a lot of the lads I grew up with :DD

And I think of it less of an argument and more of a discussion. Appreciate it mate.
 
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