PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

[Bond!JamesBond!]

is this new gameplay or just reuploaded stuff!?

 

[Ameppe]

How do you watch something like that and not think this aspect of the game is broken

Bhatti already admitted it's not working as intended and that they are still tweaking it. This is what tweeted me few days ago when i asked him if the few fouls were by design:

Not not by design at all. Just very difficult to get the correct balance without it becoming frustrating. For sure, we are working on

I will state I've spoken to the team a lot about it, something I will assess as we get closer to launch and let you know

I'll try and record a video with me and Masuda-san talking about it. I have a response, but very long winded. I'll try and explain quick...

Overall when we finalise a product all systems begin to work perfectly. One of the things that combat fouls is creating imperfect actions.

This in turn conflicts with higher difficulty AI success rate in passing, shooting etc. Finally, certain elements such as players evading...

Evading tackles and player possession logic creates major difficulties in making it happen often. Fouls occur, but they become rare based...

Based on all elements I mentioned. However, we are working on various elements such as referee calls and AI/player aggression. Let's see!

I honestly don't know anyone saying it's not an issue. Nobody is giving them a pass about fouls. The fact is i prefer to wait before considering the referees will be broken on release.

 

[Keith Houchen]

Nobody is giving them a pass about fouls.

They've been given a pass on fouls for 3 editions of PES on the trot now – and they will be given a pass again. The discussion here over the past few weeks is easily the most focused attention the issue has ever received. But I'm afraid the horse has bolted.

The time when 'the community' could have taken a stand over this is long gone. Another section of the PES-playing public now sets the agenda. They're the ones who play online all the time, or as close to all the time as makes no difference. They've got their fingers lovingly clamped on R1, Square, and X together, and they ain't letting go.

I don't believe for one moment that the fouls issue isn't a deliberately crafted outcome. It's a conscious decision to streamline the game for online play. Consider how the typical online player plays. Consider what he does, how he approaches the game. Maximum pressure, maximum speed, maximum slide-tackling.

PES now is made to meet onliners' expectations for fast, flowing fun. An edition of PES that was coded to yield an acceptable number of fouls in single-player (7 per side, say) would yield many times that amount in online play. The online players will never put up with anything approaching that. What they want and expect is what will be served up come release day. And so we have the situation that we have. Close to zero fouls in single-player. PES2018 will be the same, no question.

If the average fouls-per-match of my first 10 PES2018 matches is greater than 3, I'll acknowledge some improvement. If it's greater than 5, I'll admit there's been a substantial gesture to us single-players. If it's greater than 8, we'll be back in Classic PES territory, where the game needs to be, and I will sob like a baby.

I fear, though, it'll be the same as now, for the reasons above. A token 1 or 2 AI fouls per match, with the occasional fouls-filled extravaganza every now and then to make us feel a bit better.

 

[vialli82]

I've got more fouls personnally while i'm using double tap , like i use tactical defense when i play Fifa, and double/triple pressing too when it's needed.
But the AI computer seems to defend "perfectly", they rarely make a missed "double tap" standing tackle, and even rarely in penalty area.

Normal pressing needs to be less effective (but no tactical defending please) and making standing tackle more essential.
But it looks like people i've see on youtube video have forgot this "feature". For them it's like to play PES 6: pressing or double pressing and that's all.

 

[talucchesi]

Bhatti already admitted it's not working as intended and that they are still tweaking it. This is what tweeted me few days ago when i asked him if the few fouls were by design:



I honestly don't know anyone saying it's not an issue. Nobody is giving them a pass about fouls. The fact is i prefer to wait before considering the referees will be broken on release.

To be honest...

to me fouls are fine in PES 2017.
The frequency and strictness differ in every match.
Only thing which happens a bit too less is that fouls by the AI in the box are being called leading to a penalty.
Happens like 1 time out of 100 games.

But all in all to me they are fine the way they are now and I hope it'll stay that way in PES 2018.
Reading posts from people wanting to have more fouls....
Well I hope KONAMI won't listen because finding the right balance of something isn't easy for them...we know that.
Just remember PES 2014 where every little push was being called and you barely had a flow in the game.

To be fair, he's right. It's mostly a problem in the box where dribblers will do ANYTHING to stay on their feet rather than the opposite

 

[miguelfcp]

It would help a lot if people playing this game weren't sprinting all the goddamn time. I lost my sh*t when the guy tried to counterattack running with the ball using Godin...

I'm going to weight in on the defensive side of the game.

Spoiler

Right from the kickoff, there's absolutely no excuse for such a basic defensive positioning mistake. Saúl has the ball and he's facing the left side of the pitch, Firmino's applying pressure from the right side to make him carry the play to the other side. Then, one of the midfielders (Henderson?) runs from his position and applies pressure from the left in order to make Saúl play the ball either towards the middle or the right side...makes no sense whatsoever. I circled the right positioning for him in the screenshot. As seen on the image, there's an open passing lane to one of the strikers as soon as he leaves his position - and not allowing the ball to get to one of the opposition's strikers is absolutely the priority. From here on, the ball gets to the striker and seconds later, Liverpool concede the first goal.

Spoiler

Too many mistakes here. Atletico is able to find a passing lane through a goalkick. From there on, it's a defensive nightmare:

1st - The space between the defensive line and the midfielders is GIGANTIC. Seems to happen a lot in PES2018. Either the defensive line sits highter up (i presented a suggestion of positioning, considering the midfielders' original positioning) or the midfielders drop further back in order to close the passing lane to the two Atletico strikers, again it's the top priority here.

2nd - Two of the midfielders are dropping back, but if you watch their behaviour from the beginning of the play on, they don't have a clue of what their positioning should be and are always trying to catch up on what Atletico is doing; in this moment i captured them starting their run in order to position themselves in where they should already be (the beautifully drawn circles i made). Then again, the deeper the defensive line the more time those midfielders will need to correct their positioning.

3rd - Wijnaldum is marking Koke since before Oblak shot the ball, where Liverpool's left back is tucked between the two centre-backs for no reason. Because the leftback takes so long (too long...) to adjust and return to his original position, Wijnaldum is "kinda" temporarily closing Liverpool's left side, and i say kinda because he'll quickly run out of position and force Koke to pass the ball away, and because of the other horrible defensive behaviours i previously stated, there are 2 Atletico strikers completely open to receive the ball. I suggested a positioning for Wijnaldum, that way he could close the most dangerous passing lane and force Atletico to attack through the right side, which is the right behaviour to apply here - again, the priority is closing the middle. That way, Liverpool's frontmen will be able to catch up and join the backmen and together defend the play later on.

Spoiler

Again, from a goalkick...we're starting to see a pattern here. Liverpool tries to force Oblak to play a long ball from the goalkick by putting 3 players up front next to Atletico's defenders. It succeeds and Oblak plays a long ball forward, where 3 other Liverpool players try to cover the midfield, but fail. Wijnaldum just challenged the ball in the air, so he's understandably out of position but the other Liverpool midfield next to him runs out of his position to face a situation of 2x4, 4 Atletico players and only 2 nearby Liverpool's men. What's the priority here? Again, closing the passing lane to the 2 Atletico strikers. You're not gonna steal the ball away from 4 guys when you have only two, so you drop back, sit ahead of the defensive line and force Atletico not to play towards the middle.

And yet again the defensive line is too far away from the midfielders'.

Spoiler

Hey guys, the ball's over here! Massive black hole between the defensive line and the midfielders, inviting Henderson to run at will towards the box. For some reason the defensive line spends most of this play pushing back to cover Firmino's run, when they should've pushed higher up or stood still to put him in an offside position. I have strong feelings against a 3-man defensive line covering a single player's run, but if you do it the midfield has gotta keep up and cover the space between the two lines, midfield and defensive. But here one's pushing back and the other's pushing forward, pressing Atletico's midfielders...the longer the play runs, the larger becomes that space Henderson's about to take advantage of.

Spoiler

Another disgrace at the back. Atletico was counterattacking and by the time Gabi gets the ball, there were 3 defenders plus Lallana and Henderson sitting ahead of the defensive line. Gabi runs the ball up front ('cause everyone's running all the time in this game) and if you stop the video at 7:29, you'll see that CPU controlled Henderson stops his run towards the defence to go after an atletico's midfielder who hasn't arrived in Liverpool's half yet. Because of that horrible decision, Lallana is left with the 3 defenders...and holy Christ what are they doing. Matip has been following a Torres' run for several seconds and for no reason whatsoever, when he should've let him go past the defensive line and let him be offside. Because of his horrible positioning, you can see in the screenshot that the defensive line is no longer a line. The left back is only now catching up to the play, the other centre-back is actually not screwing up, Matip thinks he's a libero from the 1970s and Clyne is trying to somehow cover up some of the gigantic space Matip has created between him and what should be the last line of Liverpool's defenders. But should Matip adopt my suggestion of positioning, Clyne too would have to respect the defensive line and push forward a bit, not letting Carrasco have the amount of space he currently has.

I could've picked some other situations, but most of the time it's just people endlessly running forward and backwards so not much can be said about the tactical side of the match.

 

[aliheidari2520]

about fouls: maybe it is an issue but honestly not a big one (at least for me)
I had some matchs with a few fouls (or maybe no foul) ... but also had matchs with 7 or 8 fouls from CPU.
I don't think this is that bad which somebodies mention ... when I am on my best try to win a game (including more focus on better dribbling and better passes) I mostly get a fair amount of fouls. (but of course less penalty than fair amount )
I think somebodies exaggerate about it. again I admit it as an issue but not that bad ...

about PES 5/6:
I think it's exaggeration too !
I was finding very very effective exploit in every single version of pes !! much more than pes 2017 (maybe the only one that I didn't find a super effective exploit was 2011 ... didn't play 2012,2013,2014 a lot, I was on fifa that years)
of course those days I was younger and was playing PES a lot and I was more expert player than now ... but I mean they had their own flaws and not far ahead of pes 2017 (I know ! I considered tech gap and said that)

don't remember exactly which exploit was for which version ... but I am sure it was between pes 5 and pes 6:
one them was R2 shots from anywhere !! (except very closed angles), it only needed right power gauge and aim about corner to guarantee a goal by 80-90% for good players (from 22-23 meter or less) and about 40-50% (from above 22-23 meter)...
another exploit was short pass from side to center (around the box) and first time shot with necessarily bad body position !!! to guarantee a goal by 80-90% ... player turning before receiving ball and first time shot was much more effective than stop the ball and shot with good body position !!

on pes 5 the most effective line-up was 5-2-3 !! with picking 4-3-3 and edit one of DM's to CB !!

how are they masterpiece and pes 2017 is so bad?

I know the game has a lot of flaws (every game has), but they showed they are trying year by year to make the flaws less and less ... you want more dev speed? me too ! (who don't?!) but I disagree with calling pes 2017: trash, garbage, etc ...

maybe the reason that make those game looks far better than pes 2017, is the fact that fifa was completely rubbish those years, and it isn't that bad now !

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

How do you watch something like that and not think this aspect of the game is broken

I had a look at that a few times. The defender has committed to a tackle and the striker jumps over the tackle who then makes contact with the defender. It's not that the defender has brought down the striker with the slide tackle.

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

They've been given a pass on fouls for 3 editions of PES on the trot now – and they will be given a pass again. The discussion here over the past few weeks is easily the most focused attention the issue has ever received. But I'm afraid the horse has bolted.

The time when 'the community' could have taken a stand over this is long gone. Another section of the PES-playing public now sets the agenda. They're the ones who play online all the time, or as close to all the time as makes no difference. They've got their fingers lovingly clamped on R1, Square, and X together, and they ain't letting go.

I don't believe for one moment that the fouls issue isn't a deliberately crafted outcome. It's a conscious decision to streamline the game for online play. Consider how the typical online player plays. Consider what he does, how he approaches the game. Maximum pressure, maximum speed, maximum slide-tackling.

PES now is made to meet onliners' expectations for fast, flowing fun. An edition of PES that was coded to yield an acceptable number of fouls in single-player (7 per side, say) would yield many times that amount in online play. The online players will never put up with anything approaching that. What they want and expect is what will be served up come release day. And so we have the situation that we have. Close to zero fouls in single-player. PES2018 will be the same, no question.

If the average fouls-per-match of my first 10 PES2018 matches is greater than 3, I'll acknowledge some improvement. If it's greater than 5, I'll admit there's been a substantial gesture to us single-players. If it's greater than 8, we'll be back in Classic PES territory, where the game needs to be, and I will sob like a baby.

I fear, though, it'll be the same as now, for the reasons above. A token 1 or 2 AI fouls per match, with the occasional fouls-filled extravaganza every now and then to make us feel a bit better.

classic greatness, once again..

But the AI computer seems to defend "perfectly", they rarely make a missed "double tap" standing tackle, and even rarely in penalty area.

exactly the problem, also why should the AI have to foul if there given a catch-up process.
probably why they created it to begin with.

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

I had a look at that a few times. The defender has committed to a tackle and the striker jumps over the tackle who then makes contact with the defender. It's not that the defender has brought down the striker with the slide tackle.

in the box the defender slides into the strikers space missing the ball completely and causing the striker to jump over to avoid collision..... end result, contact initiated by defender. it's a penalty.

 

[PRO_TOO]

It is. Or better should have been!
The refs sure are under development. No other explanation (imo) when I watch the videos of the last 2 weeks. Still hopeful...!

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

in the box the defender slides into the strikers space missing the ball completely and causing the striker to jump over to avoid collision..... end result, contact initiated by defender. it's a penalty.

Should be. But maybe because he gets back to his feet right away it's not called. I'm just guessing. I was just expecting to see a two footed tackle go straight through someone when I read the comments on the other page. Anyway, bring on the beta.

 

[zeemeister]

in the box the defender slides into the strikers space missing the ball completely and causing the striker to jump over to avoid collision..... end result, contact initiated by defender. it's a penalty.

no shit sherlock. You went through the trouble of analysing what we all knew.

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

no shit sherlock. You went through the trouble of analysing what we all knew.

sorry bud, didn't mean to hurt your feelings ..... just responding to CalcioCalabrese post... not you, sherlock.. ............. bye the way, that's the second time you made a shit comment aimed at me........ don't read my shit if you don't like my outlook. bro!

 

[hitmanuk]

I also wonder if they somehow alter the balance of the players once in the box to force them not to go down. The above is blatant penalty regardless if he went down or not but Id argue any 99% of players are hitting the deck with that challenge

 

[Deco]

I also wonder if they somehow alter the balance of the players once in the box to force them not to go down. The above is blatant penalty regardless if he went down or not but Id argue any 99% of players are hitting the deck with that challenge

Unless Konami can't work out how to implement the difference between fouling inside the box and outside it. .. if they used the same system for both we could probably have the same frequency of penos as you would have normal fouls . .a weird system of 5 penos in a match. .. but yet they give penos for fouls in the box that aren't fouls?

 

[zeemeister]

sorry bud, didn't mean to hurt your feelings ..... just responding to CalcioCalabrese post... not you, sherlock.. ............. bye the way, that's the second time you made a shit comment aimed at me........ don't read my shit if you don't like my outlook. bro!

Calm down it was a joke. Guys are far too wound up.

 

[broxopios]

about PES 5/6:
I think it's exaggeration too !
I was finding very very effective exploit in every single version of pes !! much more than pes 2017 (maybe the only one that I didn't find a super effective exploit was 2011 ... didn't play 2012,2013,2014 a lot, I was on fifa that years)
of course those days I was younger and was playing PES a lot and I was more expert player than now ... but I mean they had their own flaws and not far ahead of pes 2017 (I know ! I considered tech gap and said that)

don't remember exactly which exploit was for which version ... but I am sure it was between pes 5 and pes 6:
one them was R2 shots from anywhere !! (except very closed angles), it only needed right power gauge and aim about corner to guarantee a goal by 80-90% for good players (from 22-23 meter or less) and about 40-50% (from above 22-23 meter)...
another exploit was short pass from side to center (around the box) and first time shot with necessarily bad body position !!! to guarantee a goal by 80-90% ... player turning before receiving ball and first time shot was much more effective than stop the ball and shot with good body position !!

on pes 5 the most effective line-up was 5-2-3 !! with picking 4-3-3 and edit one of DM's to CB !!

how are they masterpiece and pes 2017 is so bad?

I know the game has a lot of flaws (every game has), but they showed they are trying year by year to make the flaws less and less ... you want more dev speed? me too ! (who don't?!) but I disagree with calling pes 2017: trash, garbage, etc ...

maybe the reason that make those game looks far better than pes 2017, is the fact that fifa was completely rubbish those years, and it isn't that bad now !

I'd like to answer you but it's not a topic about PES 5-6 .

 

[superleeds1]

Guys, spend as much time as You like lovingly typing out posts for PES5, pes history, fifa whatever.

I will just nuke them as they arrive, THIS THREAD IS PES2018 .

If You want retro discussion , why not open a thread for retro discussion.

 

[*aLe]

I will just nuke them as they arrive

I see!

No problem though, I agree that if we kept on comparing PES 2018 videos to old PES memories and such this thread would quickly drift into unreadableness (is this even a word?)

 

[aliheidari2520]

easy guys ... my post was about people whom keep mentioning pes 5/6 and praise it against current pes (pes 2018 videos or 2017)
so it is related to pes 2018.

 

[superleeds1]

easy guys ... my post was about people whom keep mentioning pes 5/6 and praise it against current pes (pes 2018 videos or 2017)
so it is related to pes 2018.

Just don't post pes5/6, don't even mention it . We can all make analogies with a tenuous link to PES2018 and then boom the thread attracts retro discussion.

 

[romagnoli]

https://mobile.twitter.com/KurosakiCarlos2/status/884122135748333568/photo/1

How do I embed the gif from this? On my phone so it's a bit of a nightmare...

 

[*aLe]

It's good to see first touch errors can get pretty blatant at times... Like it sometimes happens in real matches after all.
Also, be prepared to the s*!tload of people complaining because "first touch error is yet another way for the CPU to cheat, I should've been through but the CPU decided that I should lose the ball instead, PES sucks".

Having played FIFA for several years, I've seen it happen countless times already.

 

[Chuny]

I just finished listening to the Podcast.
If Adam's lying, he's a hell of an actor. You can really feel the enthusiasm in his voice.
Of course in previous years there was also some sort of excitement from him. But this year he sounds genuine. And let's be clear about something: I haven't seen NO ONE who PLAYED the game saying it isn't as good as the rest say it is. On the contrary, everytime I read a new message from someone who played it commenting on it, they just keep making it bigger and bigger.

So yeah, I think we can all nitpick whatever we want (Positioning, Free-Kicks, First-Touch Error, etc) but the fact remains: If you play it, you feel it, you love it.

 

[Danny Henry]

So, instead of talking about old games, lets compare PES to its competitor shall we? Just play that game this weekend by the way and It delivers a way better package.
Cmon man. If we talk about PES 4/5/6 is because we are loyal fans.

 

[Chuny]

It's good to see first touch errors can get pretty blatant at times... Like it sometimes happens in real matches after all.
Also, be prepared to the s*!tload of people complaining because "first touch error is yet another way for the CPU to cheat, I should've been through but the CPU decided that I should lose the ball instead, PES sucks".

Having played FIFA for several years, I've seen it happen countless times already.

Let's not underestimate the average PES player. Remember, PES fans usually are older than FIFA fans, because we come from the 90s and because we aren't in it for the licenses, we are there for the sport itself. So we appreciate natural human errors as much as we love scoring spectacular goals.

 

[PRO_TOO]

https://mobile.twitter.com/KurosakiCarlos2/status/884122135748333568/photo/1

How do I embed the gif from this? On my phone so it's a bit of a nightmare...

that so reminds me of myself IRL...!!!
#errorftw

 

[hitmanuk]

https://mobile.twitter.com/KurosakiCarlos2/status/884122135748333568/photo/1

How do I embed the gif from this? On my phone so it's a bit of a nightmare...

thats quality that , i just hope its stat related and the touch is somewhat down to a difficult ball and not forced. For example id expect better players such as messi, neymar controlling more difficult balls and the more poorer player it getting away from them

 

[Deco]

I just finished listening to the Podcast.
If Adam's lying, he's a hell of an actor. You can really feel the enthusiasm in his voice.
Of course in previous years there was also some sort of excitement from him. But this year he sounds genuine. And let's be clear about something: I haven't seen NO ONE who PLAYED the game saying it isn't as good as the rest say it is. On the contrary, everytime I read a new message from someone who played it commenting on it, they just keep making it bigger and bigger.

So yeah, I think we can all nitpick whatever we want (Positioning, Free-Kicks, First-Touch Error, etc) but the fact remarins: If you play it, you feel it, you love it.

Best and most revealing podcast. . .as you say Chuny he did sound genuine and gave straight answers.