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PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

shilts said:
I still think the obsession with "responsiveness" these days is what's ruining football games.
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Bond!JamesBond! said:
good point when you think of it. Finishing the animations before action gives defense more time.
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Yes, just like PES 2014, the most frustrating PES game ever made...

I'm being facetious, but realistically, I'd rather a game was "too responsive" than watch my striker take four steps before kicking the ball, giving the defender just enough time to run in and nick the ball away. Fuck. That.

If defenders are as responsive as attackers - and the defending AI is intelligent (but with attributes defining that intelligence level and their ability to track a player) - then I don't see the problem in making all the players more responsive (after all, bad players make bad decisions and have poor judgement, rather than suffer from a three-second lag when they want to do something - they're not robots)...

I hate defending in the other game, because the balance between defence and attack is so heavily weighted towards attack. But it's not the responsiveness that does that - it's that the pressure button doesn't really do anything, especially against the better players. It's a forced, and fake, advantage for the strikers. A defender's ability doesn't really make much difference.
 
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PES2014 could have been a truly great game if they had brought it out 6 months later. Why every year a new game? A roster update would be fine for me, i would pay for that if the game was good enough?

The answer is money, of course...
 
zeemeister said:
Every year you post the same shit. Stop looking for every little fault. I saw that goal and knew someone was going to say that, just wondered who it would be.

I am surprised you didn't highly ght the eas with which Neymar did his fifa Street tricks.

The last thing you said that was positive here was around FIFA winning an award.
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You sound so upset, No need to single out people everyone is entitled to their opinion.
 
zeemeister said:
The great myth of our century.

Sorry if you felt victimised.
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No worries, It just breaks my heart to see you crying again just like last year. Let us try to communicate these issues before we end up with an inferior product for the 4th year in a row :)

zeemeister said:
Crossing is waaaaay overpwered and everyone online uses it.

It's one thing playing wide play and trying to trick your opponent but guys online play one tactic. Counter attack and cross that is all. I keep losing games by being outscored and it's atleast 70% of the goals are conceded after I have lost the ball and it goes wide and swung in for the header.

The shameful part is Konami must know this. It's not a matter of opinion or poor defending from my side. You can setup all the tactics and advanced instructions you want. The game forces you into one method of play and that's the killer online.

Not even putting a big burly CB to man mark the attacker he will still score and while you defend well and stop them on occasions of someone keeps trying he same tactic over and over with a 90% success rate they will keep trying it.
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zeemeister said:
https://twitter.com/zeemeister1/status/848511648637874177

How is that not a penalty. It's starting to really annoy me getting hacked down so blatantly and the crowd doesn't even react at home.
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*wink*
 
Chris Davies said:
giphy.gif
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Ha ha. Man I miss Steve Carell in that. Such a great show.:D
 
Freekicks finally look fun again, is everything with Left Stick?

and i hope they give us the option for another camera view, go to gameplay cam right after loading up
 
shilts said:
I still think the obsession with "responsiveness" these days is what's ruining football games. Everything has to be ultra-responsive. The trouble is that it's reaching a point where they're so responsive it doesn't look natural. And I'm sure that helps to bypass any midfield play.
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I always thought that way too.

Imo PES 2015 had a very good balance between player weight/movement/responsiveness.
 
ianni said:
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That's been the best thing I think I've seen about this game so far. If you've followed my posts, I've been pretty critical thusfar.

From the Keeper poking their head around the wall to see, to ter stegan not moving due to not seeing the ball when Koke went underneath the wall, to Guerreiro's knuckleball fk at 1:42. That was all outstanding and looked even better than the other games system.

Hopefully they're just not OP and Pes finds that right balance :PRAY:
 
Looks promising. The new FK system seems to be a big improvement.
I'm still not convinced that shooting variety will be improved, especially on CPU side.

A system where body position, stats, being under pressure, stronger foot, etc is all considered for the output of shooting.
What I have seen so far is still too many low shots to the sides almost always on goal, almost never above the crossbar.

Fingers crossed, that it will be addressed.

By the way they the started this stupid net design with 3 anchor points. Why? Fifa changed the nets for the good for Fifa 18, but generally both games try to implement such designs which are very rarely seen in European top leagues.
 
That free-kick video was pretty sweet. Would be cool if the set-piece routines weren't restricted to distance, presenting even more options to catch the opposition off guard.

Was thinking about foul frequency during a quiet moment at work today, after having seen that video. It has been mentioned before but an option to select referee strictness would be cool, but I think what the developers of a football game should do (maybe they are already, dunno) is code so as foul frequency fluctuates depending on the area of play, or maybe even fluctuates depending on match flow, home/away/crowd influence, even the individual players the ref is having to deal with regards rep for simulation.

For a start, when considering coding fouls based on area of play, I would bump up the frequency found in the penalty box, keep frequency in shooting range from a free-kick as it is (shooting range being central; left or right of centre, or just super close to edge of the penalty area) but increasing, considerably, the foul count everywhere else on the field.

Fouls should be more of a tactical thing in these games - should be something you actually want to do as well as be able to engineer in order to try win a free-kick. I think the middle or third (or just under that) should be where you see more fouls getting called. Having a considerable increase of a foul likely being called in this area is the perfect place to try to intentionally commit fouls; can slow the pace down; perfect area tactically to commit them in certain match situations. The centre of the field should be just that wee more niggly, but this would require continuous play to be the rule as opposed to exception. Just about free-kick awarded would need to allow for a quick restart and no resetting of the field. Personally, I would love that as I think it would encourage more midfield play as the player in possession might slow down a tad (match situation would be a big influence here), while the defending player really does want to slow it down if players are in danger of being out of position, or again the match situation means them doing so would benefit them. Other wee bonus is that it might, it might, help solve some positional issues; at the very least it would allow for the user to try do something about it. It is, after all, why professional fouls of the more niggly variety tend to get committed in that area. It would mean perhaps more in the way of animation and coding regards collision variety.

Let's be honest, every ref in the professional game applies different standards depending on where something happens on the pitch, rightly or wrongly.
 
Chris Davies said:
Yes, just like PES 2014, the most frustrating PES game ever made...

I'm being facetious, but realistically, I'd rather a game was "too responsive" than watch my striker take four steps before kicking the ball, giving the defender just enough time to run in and nick the ball away. Fuck. That.

If defenders are as responsive as attackers - and the defending AI is intelligent (but with attributes defining that intelligence level and their ability to track a player) - then I don't see the problem in making all the players more responsive (after all, bad players make bad decisions and have poor judgement, rather than suffer from a three-second lag when they want to do something - they're not robots)...

I hate defending in the other game, because the balance between defence and attack is so heavily weighted towards attack. But it's not the responsiveness that does that - it's that the pressure button doesn't really do anything, especially against the better players. It's a forced, and fake, advantage for the strikers. A defender's ability doesn't really make much difference.
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i don't know really, this is a very interesting thing to talk about. Response or fully cycled animations. IRL a player has to finish his movement / animations before he shoots / passes to maintain balance.
In PES 2017 the player will shoot as soon as you press the button but he doesn't finish his animation cycle making a hiccup in it. Reason for these unnatural looking animations in PES.
FIFA seems to do it better, i think there in the middle, you have a delay but slight and the animations look close to finishing there cycle.

curdstar said:
That free-kick video was pretty sweet. Would be cool if the set-piece routines weren't restricted to distance, presenting even more options to catch the opposition off guard.

Was thinking about foul frequency during a quiet moment at work today, after having seen that video. It has been mentioned before but an option to select referee strictness would be cool, but I think what the developers of a football game should do (maybe they are already, dunno) is code so as foul frequency fluctuates depending on the area of play, or maybe even fluctuates depending on match flow, home/away/crowd influence, even the individual players the ref is having to deal with regards rep for simulation.

For a start, when considering coding fouls based on area of play, I would bump up the frequency found in the penalty box, keep frequency in shooting range from a free-kick as it is (shooting range being central; left or right of centre, or just super close to edge of the penalty area) but increasing, considerably, the foul count everywhere else on the field.

Fouls should be more of a tactical thing in these games - should be something you actually want to do as well as be able to engineer in order to try win a free-kick. I think the middle or third (or just under that) should be where you see more fouls getting called. Having a considerable increase of a foul likely being called in this area is the perfect place to try to intentionally commit fouls; can slow the pace down; perfect area tactically to commit them in certain match situations. The centre of the field should be just that wee more niggly, but this would require continuous play to be the rule as opposed to exception. Just about free-kick awarded would need to allow for a quick restart and no resetting of the field. Personally, I would love that as I think it would encourage more midfield play as the player in possession might slow down a tad (match situation would be a big influence here), while the defending player really does want to slow it down if players are in danger of being out of position, or again the match situation means them doing so would benefit them. Other wee bonus is that it might, it might, help solve some positional issues; at the very least it would allow for the user to try do something about it. It is, after all, why professional fouls of the more niggly variety tend to get committed in that area. It would mean perhaps more in the way of animation and coding regards collision variety.

Let's be honest, every ref in the professional game applies different standards depending on where something happens on the pitch, rightly or wrongly.
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you bring up a good point here, i think Konami needs to give the player more control over fouls. A more manual foul system that works off more defensive engagement options (two styles of soft, medium, and hard engagements). Should allow for more control of how many fouls you get or want to get.
 
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Another idea I had. Injury time should be in "real time" in that if the on-screen display says two minutes, it really does mean two minutes. Just a small thing that I believe could ramp up the tension in a close game. The clock just ticking by at an accelerated speed can feel a wee bit misleading, maybe even misrepresentative of the time that should be awarded for injury and stoppages.
 
I don't mind the skating too much.
And I think one of the reasons PES lost many fans along the way to FIFA, specially from 2014 is the how responsive FIFA got and how unresponsive PES stopped being until 2016. I remember getting PES 2014 on day one and inviting one of my friends over (who was a FIFA player) to try it with me and how disgusted he was. I almost felt embarrased for still supporting PES.

I think it's impossible to get footplanting and responsiveness both together in the same game. FIFA doesn't have as many skating problems as PES but it's still nowhere near perfect in that regard. But what FIFA does have is some small linking animations that kind of smooth out the skating and transform that into a shorter animation specially when you go from running with the ball to kind of shift one side to get past an opponent, that's when these transitional animations come up so you don't notice skating. Hard to put into words.
 
I don't know if it has been commented in here, but apparently if you win X amount of games on Superstar difficulty, you'll unlock a new one, the hardest one ever.
 
Honestly, that would be amazing if true. I sort of hope it is quite a number of matches that need to be won too. I'm also hoping, somewhat forlornly, that VERSUS match can allow us to increase match time to more than ten minutes. A combination of both those things could see the longevity of the game increase rather drastically.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
i don't know really, this is a very interesting thing to talk about. Response or fully cycled animations. IRL a player has to finish his movement / animations before he shoots / passes.
In PES 2017 the player will shoot as soon as you press the button but he doesn't finish his animation cycle making a hiccup in it. Reason for these unnatural looking animations in PES.
FIFA seems to do it better, i think there in the middle, you have a delay but slight and the animations look close to finishing there cycle.
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The answer I think should generally be response, with the intention of improving animations to handle the responsiveness. It's never as cut and dry as that - as a defender you need to be able to rely on the animations of your opponent to indicate whether or not you should put a foot in or stand off and wait for your moment. But often you need to have a certain level of compromise to compensate for situations where there simply isn't the right animation to cater for transition from one situation to another, or an otherwise simple improvisation based on foot and body position. Football is so much faster and more intricate than it used to be, foot speed is generally much higher and there is frequently much more improvised manipulation of the ball than I think a modern football game's animation system could represent without hiccups.

I've been quite vocal in the past about foot planting and the importance of consistency of movement. But I also think that responsiveness and fluidity is key to creating an enjoyable and immersive football experience, and I do think a lot of arguments about foot planting are obsessed more with the aesthetic than the relevance of it to the feel or the timing aspects of the gameplay. Nowadays I'm certainly less dogmatic about it than I used to be.
 
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