Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
OK, Lami. One more post like this one and I'll ban you until September 14th.
PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread
- Thread starter ThomasGOAL
- Start date
OK, Lami. One more post like this one and I'll ban you until September 14th.
curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
Should also probably say that the developers and those who are in charge of the brand or monitoring feedback will rightful focus on that which is offered to them by those who have played the game. Like it or lump it.
Not saying they are completely ignoring feedback from the videos released, but if folk are going to complain about animations, graphics or other assets in huge sweeping statements then they should ignore it when considering what they do have and intend to release. It doesn't matter how much PES you have played over the years or how far back you go; who you claim to represent when doing so. That sort of feedback has to be put in the "Well, I guess they just aren't going to buy it" category and move on from that for the time being. The stupidest thing they could do is give too much focus to that kind of feedback at this juncture. It would be like Anton Newcombe of the Brian Jonestown Massacre paying attention to feedback on his work in progress material (which he does all the time - he posts work in progress tracks on his youtube channel all the time) from people who want it to sound like Take That, or want everything to sound like the stuff off of the Pol Pots Pleasure Penthouse demo tape from over a quarter of a century ago, if I were to nod towards feverish hardcore fan feedback. There would be absolutely no value in that feedback for him whatsoever.
I know what I can expect in reply to a post like this. It will likely be something along the lines of "well if I am not impressed and will now buy FIFA then it is the end for them!", "they are making an ARCADE KIDS GAME!" which is, quite frankly, utterly ludicrous and smacks of delusion.
The fact is, and I can only speak for myself, I reckon there is a reason for the game being allowed to be shown early and freely, and it isn't pure arrogance. It isn't them utterly convinced that everything that is shown in the videos is completely flawless in their view. Nah, they will be taking some feedback from "viewers" (which is all we are at the moment) to go along with that from "players"
Would've been cool if this were to be the way of things moving forward, but I reckon this is both the first and last time we will see so much of PES game months before release. They teased it and then two weeks later hours and hours of gameplay was available. That is unprecedented.
Not saying they are completely ignoring feedback from the videos released, but if folk are going to complain about animations, graphics or other assets in huge sweeping statements then they should ignore it when considering what they do have and intend to release. It doesn't matter how much PES you have played over the years or how far back you go; who you claim to represent when doing so. That sort of feedback has to be put in the "Well, I guess they just aren't going to buy it" category and move on from that for the time being. The stupidest thing they could do is give too much focus to that kind of feedback at this juncture. It would be like Anton Newcombe of the Brian Jonestown Massacre paying attention to feedback on his work in progress material (which he does all the time - he posts work in progress tracks on his youtube channel all the time) from people who want it to sound like Take That, or want everything to sound like the stuff off of the Pol Pots Pleasure Penthouse demo tape from over a quarter of a century ago, if I were to nod towards feverish hardcore fan feedback. There would be absolutely no value in that feedback for him whatsoever.
I know what I can expect in reply to a post like this. It will likely be something along the lines of "well if I am not impressed and will now buy FIFA then it is the end for them!", "they are making an ARCADE KIDS GAME!" which is, quite frankly, utterly ludicrous and smacks of delusion.
The fact is, and I can only speak for myself, I reckon there is a reason for the game being allowed to be shown early and freely, and it isn't pure arrogance. It isn't them utterly convinced that everything that is shown in the videos is completely flawless in their view. Nah, they will be taking some feedback from "viewers" (which is all we are at the moment) to go along with that from "players"
Would've been cool if this were to be the way of things moving forward, but I reckon this is both the first and last time we will see so much of PES game months before release. They teased it and then two weeks later hours and hours of gameplay was available. That is unprecedented.
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Would be fair enough to observe the poor spelling then, at the same time as observing the potential quality of the book based on the paragraphs.
fantomas23
League 1
- 26 July 2003
all the aqua blue in the graphic layovers, menus and ui is absolutely giving me not the shits, but watery shits
Matt10
International
- 5 February 2004
Oh, absolutely. I'm not delusional enough to think everyone sees the same things. I just know what prevented me, and many others, from actually enjoying PES 17. People target the issues, but they don't target the solutions. That's what I do. My solutions are those that are out of sight, and out of mind, because being engrossed in a game takes over - until you realize you've just connected 20 straight passes against Barcelona, wondering how in the heck did you get to their defensive third so fast using the ML defaults.
I'm going to back off a bit though. Passion is being perceived as negative, and that couldn't be further from the truth. I desperately want to play a master league this year. Someone asked me in my PES 3 stream who my first signing will be...I couldn't even answer - it had been so long since thinking of buying a player.
Bond!JamesBond!
PS2 PES Greatness
the shooting power attribute in player are probably to high. iv'e noticed anything 70 or lower isn't a cannon. But iv'e also noticed that things look different from different camera angles. Konami has a lot of players set around 80 and attributes to close to notice enough difference in each player. i edited my teams now when i play and the individually is more noticeable.
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manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
I almost never post, but just wanted to say that I am silently agreeing with Matt10's (and others) observations about the game. So there are more of us. I love the DNA of the game and much prefer it to that other footy game and I want PES to sell well. At the same time I also find it more frustrating. Sounds funny, but it's because it's so sooo close to being the game we are waiting for, but almost always never get in the end.
Anyway, this is the perfect time to voice our concern. Months before release. Yes we don't know how the final product will turn up to be, but I'm sure if it turns out well we will all be ecstatic. All we have are videos for now, but when we have the full game we will be told that it's too late to voice our concerns, and rightly so.
BTW I don't think anyone wants to change the dna of the game so it plays just the way *we* want. The answer lies in the game options and modes. I don't want to ruin the game for people who like end to end 10 minute matches. But I expect something more slow paced, with midfield play and plenty of errors if I choose to play a 25-30 minute match. It's not wishing impossible things. In real life there's only 30 minutes of real action in a 45 minute half. So, stats-wise, we should be getting something closer to the real thing at that point. You can't have a real match condenced in 10 minutes sure, but on the other hand you can't have constant end to end action with no midfield for 30 minutes, and people's observations about the positioning might be key.
Cheers
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Unless your Man Utd last season. In which case there's only about 3 minutes of action in 90 minutes.
zeemeister
foxy engine
Guy likes an L1 + x every pass is followed up with a run. The AI pulls back automatically after a move though which is good.
The pace of the game looks fantastic indeed. Wonder how it will be when we play it. Loved the mane lob.
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shez
League 1
- 19 August 2005
The first goal highlight the gk issue IMHO, He can't be stuck to his line while the player is coming at him and lobs him as well, Looks really silly.
The second goal looks scripted and the goalie is very questionable
Very few fouls
Worrying indeed as these issues has made most of the community ignore the 2017 game after a couple of months
The second goal looks scripted and the goalie is very questionable
Very few fouls
Worrying indeed as these issues has made most of the community ignore the 2017 game after a couple of months
Hey guys, posted on WENB thought I'd post here as I have not posted in awhile. Didn't want to get involved in discussions about seeing the game in videos vs playing the game as I only played 2 matches vs the A.I. so I can't really comment. I do want to say seeing videos then remembering what I played-- the game with the controller hand feels different then how it comes across in videos...to me...just my opinion. I'm not going to tell you not to judge the game by the videos because if I didn't play the game thats what I'd be doing.
I am with you all I want the best A.I. possible and I still absolutely love PS2 A.I. but I personally don't know if we'll ever see that level of A.I. in the near future because of how the A.I. (this is just my opinion, obviously I'm not a developer or write code but just my feeling) is tied to the current tactical and advanced instructions system.
This goes back to PES 2015 Demo. I loved that demo even with its flaws because it had personality. What fans up to that point were clamoring for was to see Barca play like Barca and Real Madrid to play like Real Madrid etc. and it became a "be careful what you wish for" moment for me--Because I too was clamoring for that.
I remember initially loving it! Then realized, hold on, the A.I. will ONLY play this way? Thats so limiting! For example, Real Madrid's tactics were Long Ball counter attack. But if you are playing a team that sits deep and is compact you need to play a possession game just like Real Madrid has to play in real life when they play a lesser talented squad who sits deep, you can't just long ball counter attack your way through on goal! This is where the "oh shit be careful what you wish for" moment came for me. Because they A.I. didn't change how to play they stayed stuck on those tactics.
Since then, I've been clamoring for either PES 2011 tactical system or PS2 style system with attempts to code the A.I. in the way it was back then--varied A.I. with a focus on Individuality--it may not have team styles anymore but that type of A.I. was better IMO.
Personally, I find the current tactical system and current advanced instructions system limiting and tied into the A.I.... I very much dislike them lol . Versus the A.I. the past few years emphasis seems to be trying to score team passing goals and whats been completely lost is the individuality of players when controlled by the A.I. Remember when you used to double man mark Henry and he'd still find a way to skin you? That shit was incredible. Unfortunately that aspect of the A.I. has been sorely missed.
I personally feel until Konami change the tactical system they can only do so much to make the A.I. as dynamic. I spoke with Tayason at E3 and Konami likes the Advanced Instructions so I think they are here to stay. When I spoke to him about A.I. changing tactics when winning or losing he said they wanted it to be more subtle using the attack/defense levels. So I don't think we are getting those end of match scenarios where the A.I. changes from a 4-5-1 to a 3-4-3.
With that being said, I personally, don't want them to try to do too much with the A.I. right now from what I've seen in the videos. I thought PES 2017 was too defensive and too cagey and purely not fun for me. I felt like you couldn't break the press and then take advantage of space I constantly felt hounded by the A.I. for 90 min. I don't want the game to revert back to that.
The best part of PES 2018 is how free it feels when playing.The weight of the players etc. If Konami gets this constant feedback from the videos of too much space, A.I. positioning, A.I. aggressiveness etc, we could lose the most important aspect of the game..its freedom... because I don't think with how the A.I. and tactics are interconnected that they can just tweak some things and all will be fine. I think the tweaks that would need to be made will indirectly affect the freedom.
I hope this all makes sense to everyone
. I want the same thing as all of you when it comes to the A.I. offline. But I'll take freedom in 2018 over the very structured and constantly frustrating 2017. I really really really enjoyed what I played so much so that I don't even care about kits I'm going to jump into master league day 1.
Even in the True Brits video, which I thought he did a nice job pointing out things that needed improvement, the A.I. had more shots and better chances just didn't finish even though the human player had more possession and seemed like more space to work with.
So yea just my personal opinion on the matter but I can also see the perspective from Matt, Chris and some of you.
I am with you all I want the best A.I. possible and I still absolutely love PS2 A.I. but I personally don't know if we'll ever see that level of A.I. in the near future because of how the A.I. (this is just my opinion, obviously I'm not a developer or write code but just my feeling) is tied to the current tactical and advanced instructions system.
This goes back to PES 2015 Demo. I loved that demo even with its flaws because it had personality. What fans up to that point were clamoring for was to see Barca play like Barca and Real Madrid to play like Real Madrid etc. and it became a "be careful what you wish for" moment for me--Because I too was clamoring for that.
I remember initially loving it! Then realized, hold on, the A.I. will ONLY play this way? Thats so limiting! For example, Real Madrid's tactics were Long Ball counter attack. But if you are playing a team that sits deep and is compact you need to play a possession game just like Real Madrid has to play in real life when they play a lesser talented squad who sits deep, you can't just long ball counter attack your way through on goal! This is where the "oh shit be careful what you wish for" moment came for me. Because they A.I. didn't change how to play they stayed stuck on those tactics.
Since then, I've been clamoring for either PES 2011 tactical system or PS2 style system with attempts to code the A.I. in the way it was back then--varied A.I. with a focus on Individuality--it may not have team styles anymore but that type of A.I. was better IMO.
Personally, I find the current tactical system and current advanced instructions system limiting and tied into the A.I.... I very much dislike them lol . Versus the A.I. the past few years emphasis seems to be trying to score team passing goals and whats been completely lost is the individuality of players when controlled by the A.I. Remember when you used to double man mark Henry and he'd still find a way to skin you? That shit was incredible. Unfortunately that aspect of the A.I. has been sorely missed.
I personally feel until Konami change the tactical system they can only do so much to make the A.I. as dynamic. I spoke with Tayason at E3 and Konami likes the Advanced Instructions so I think they are here to stay. When I spoke to him about A.I. changing tactics when winning or losing he said they wanted it to be more subtle using the attack/defense levels. So I don't think we are getting those end of match scenarios where the A.I. changes from a 4-5-1 to a 3-4-3.
With that being said, I personally, don't want them to try to do too much with the A.I. right now from what I've seen in the videos. I thought PES 2017 was too defensive and too cagey and purely not fun for me. I felt like you couldn't break the press and then take advantage of space I constantly felt hounded by the A.I. for 90 min. I don't want the game to revert back to that.
The best part of PES 2018 is how free it feels when playing.The weight of the players etc. If Konami gets this constant feedback from the videos of too much space, A.I. positioning, A.I. aggressiveness etc, we could lose the most important aspect of the game..its freedom... because I don't think with how the A.I. and tactics are interconnected that they can just tweak some things and all will be fine. I think the tweaks that would need to be made will indirectly affect the freedom.
I hope this all makes sense to everyone
Even in the True Brits video, which I thought he did a nice job pointing out things that needed improvement, the A.I. had more shots and better chances just didn't finish even though the human player had more possession and seemed like more space to work with.
So yea just my personal opinion on the matter but I can also see the perspective from Matt, Chris and some of you.
I don't think so. Maybe the so called hardcore one, yes.
It seems this game has nothing good on it when I read things like this over and over again. And it's not even out yet. But I respect these points of view, of course. It's just that I prefer to be optimistic, haha
Bond!JamesBond!
PS2 PES Greatness
The people playing here actually show you some great things that need fixing. Passing as fast as you can, makes AI defense look like training dummies, and the keepers have to stand on there head every game with 10 saves to keep scores lower.
at 1:14 to 1:20 look at the run from #11. It just looks unnatural and squeezing between two defenders like that.
at 1:14 to 1:15 (to see it in detail run video at .25 speed) #11 what's going on there? before he receives the pass he miss steps....is that caused from being free and then going on a rails/track? You see this unnatural movement often.
at 3:35
#20 just skates in.
at 7:32 why doesn't the keeper continue to come out and smother the shoot?
Another thing i can't stand is the one touch in the air Crane Style Kung Fu foot to foot passing.
So my 5 things that i think need fixing :
1. AI defense passing lane awareness
2. Skating dribbling and unnatural movement
3. Inconsistent foul system.
4. Crane Technique foot to foot passing.
5. Keepers come out and smother the shoot.
at 1:14 to 1:20 look at the run from #11. It just looks unnatural and squeezing between two defenders like that.
at 1:14 to 1:15 (to see it in detail run video at .25 speed) #11 what's going on there? before he receives the pass he miss steps....is that caused from being free and then going on a rails/track? You see this unnatural movement often.
at 3:35
#20 just skates in.at 7:32 why doesn't the keeper continue to come out and smother the shoot?
Another thing i can't stand is the one touch in the air Crane Style Kung Fu foot to foot passing.
So my 5 things that i think need fixing :
1. AI defense passing lane awareness
2. Skating dribbling and unnatural movement
3. Inconsistent foul system.
4. Crane Technique foot to foot passing.
5. Keepers come out and smother the shoot.
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Chelsea4ever
League 1
- 12 March 2003
I'm pretty sure the player changed to manually control the keeper, I don't know why people do this though!
shez
League 1
- 19 August 2005
I don't think so. Maybe the so called hardcore one, yes.
It seems this game has nothing good on it when I read things like this over and over again. And it's not even out yet. But I respect these points of view, of course. It's just that I prefer to be optimistic, haha
Of course no one is trying to convince the other of anything, It's different opinions and each to their own as long as it's respectful. Some people like an arcade approach and some others will want the boring sim approach and would play 25 minute matches lol
We come across as pessimistic because this is the only time we can make our voices heard, The development cycle when there's still time to change stuff hopefully. The overly pessimistic view could be because a lot of people have been bitten so many times by the fake reviewers and their over hyping where they gloss over essentials like fouls,stats,poor AI and make false claims for the past 4 or so years.
We're trying to control reality LoL
Edit : Crane style passing hahaaha
Guess I'm better off banning myself from this thread til the demo.
That was Moi
Even after having bought, rebought and eventually memorised the same republished-for-the-nth-time book from cover to cover with all its many unacceptable fundamental grammatical errors and forwarded them to said people in charge pointing out all the errors with image proof with as much detail as possible to make it as easy as possible for them to fix in the nicest way possible time and again for years out of nothing but sheer passion because you know there is a gem in there, to simply be ignored and be told these errors are the least of their concerns, only to see the new edition out with a more colorful cover and fancier paper, still riddled with the same fundamental grammatical errors, and being told this is what the people wanted. How crushed, upset and disappointed would you be? You don't know whether to be upset with the publishers who are strictly after money, or the superficial "fans" who aren't helping and only making matters worse?
But I guess I know which camp you're in.
gerd
Retired Footballer
I've watched that last video.
People who played the game all say that the pace is one of the strong points. This video seems too quick, but people s that this is often the case in these clips.
Not the best players in that clip?
One thing is certain. The French commentary is great. The best i ever heard. Was that live commentary or ingame commentary? Must be live. I think i heard him mention the name of the players (Weedens and Kun)?
People who played the game all say that the pace is one of the strong points. This video seems too quick, but people s that this is often the case in these clips.
Not the best players in that clip?
One thing is certain. The French commentary is great. The best i ever heard. Was that live commentary or ingame commentary? Must be live. I think i heard him mention the name of the players (Weedens and Kun)?
So only hardcore fans are true fans, they are always right, the other fans are bad and the game is always a bad game because of these issues not being solved. And they do not change anything, only the graphics and faces. Wow.
zeemeister
foxy engine
Every year you post the same shit. Stop looking for every little fault. I saw that goal and knew someone was going to say that, just wondered who it would be.
I am surprised you didn't highly ght the eas with which Neymar did his fifa Street tricks.
The last thing you said that was positive here was around FIFA winning an award.
papinho81
Champions League
Yep, I am french and I agree with you the commentary in that video are really great. It took me few seconds to realize it was live commentary during which I thought damn it what an upgrade in the French commentaries.
- Staff
- #2,127
Great and insightful post as always. Makes sense to me, and I 100% agree.I remember initially loving [PES 2015]! Then realized, hold on, the A.I. will ONLY play this way? Thats so limiting! For example, Real Madrid's tactics were Long Ball counter attack. But if you are playing a team that sits deep and is compact you need to play a possession game just like Real Madrid has to play in real life when they play a lesser talented squad who sits deep, you can't just long ball counter attack your way through on goal! This is where the "oh shit be careful what you wish for" moment came for me. Because they A.I. didn't change how to play they stayed stuck on those tactics.
I hope this all makes sense to everyone.
The "advanced tactics" are powerful tools that create more team individuality than we've ever seen before - but also render teams totally one-dimensional in their approach (ironically enough, turning into the "robots" that Adam mentions when discussing that TTB Superstar difficulty video with you yesterday).
We're all going around in circles now - the optimists and the PESsimists (see what I did there?) who haven't played the game yet, and I think both groups make good points. Hopefully some feedback will trickle through to the developers (stuff from the playtests surely will, so let's all hope it was largely sensible).
Either way, we can start to settle down now. There's only another ... THREE MONTHS?! THREE MONTHS MORE OF THIS ROUNDABOUT OF HOPE AND DESPAIR?! SERIOUSLY?!
I still think the obsession with "responsiveness" these days is what's ruining football games. Everything has to be ultra-responsive. The trouble is that it's reaching a point where they're so responsive it doesn't look natural. And I'm sure that helps to bypass any midfield play.
Bond!JamesBond!
PS2 PES Greatness
Idea 
They need to bring back PES 2 beautiful game menus. Fire it up and admire that artistic masterpiece. It would increase sales just from that..
They need to bring back PES 2 beautiful game menus. Fire it up and admire that artistic masterpiece. It would increase sales just from that..good point when you think of it. Finishing the animations before action gives defense more time and nerf this ping pong passing.