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PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Dirt 4 has the option to choose either simulation or arcade. I think that is what PES also should but with sliders.
The game out of the box should be a simulation, but with the sliders you should turn it into an arcade gamestyle.

What about online then? Frankly, i couldn't care less because i never play online...but it has to be solved since lots of people do play online.

People arre anxious for the demo tho have an idea about the game. Don't bother. Adam explained this in a podcast (WENB, i think). Demo's are made by separate teams and they put things in it that aren't in the retail. He said that after the PES2015 or 2016 demo. That demo was fantastic and the retail version was a disappointment after that...
So a demo does not necessarily give a good impression of what the retail version will be...it sounds very strange, but that is what he said...
 
Topaz said:
CPU misplace passes even in Superstar at 5:41. My friend wasn't lying!!


I am really satisfied with this video.

Edit: Now please for the love of god, don't change the gameplay on demo/release.
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still got the same terrible stumble animation during tackles..and a hint of slow motion keeping..could be the camera used
 
B-Man said:
http://www.footy-united.com
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Lol enjoyed the 40mins I have managed to listen to so far.
I am only getting up to date now with PES 2018 the trailer was pretty rubbish tbh so I am glad I listened to the podcast. I can only feel for the guys that get to play the game early, you are already classified as a fanboy who are in Konamis pocket. So trying to convince people on how genuine you are is a futile exercise. Stay strong !

One thing that does worry me is how you guys mentioned the difficulty with trying to pass the ball from the back. Does that mean the gegenpress is going to be owerpowered yet again. Not sure how I feel about this. As pressing has always been overpowered.
Edit : just listened to the podcast till 47mins and you guys then talk about being able to outplay the gegenpress! Lol please elaborate on this contradiction.

Will listen to to he rest when I have more time.

God help us with what came out of the fifa youtubers yesterday let's hope they don't screw things up.

As for the rest of my Evo web brethren .... be patient. We will see what happens when the beta is released and get a chance to give our impressions. Trying to discuss what we have now is not enough for anything meaningful to be upset or hyped about.

Lots of love zee
 
Bhatti said in a Pes 2018 presentation on youtube that 18' is the start of a new cycle going through to 2020. He said 18' is 'cut from a different cloth'.

One of the testers was saying that it is possible now to quickly change your actions during tackling. This coupled with the new 'shielding' is not promising from my perspective. In real futebol you cant defy the laws of physics if you commit to a challenge or action. It sounds like this may be an arcade type gameplay element that I would rather not have.

Animations look jerky compared with 17'.

Fortunately Pes 2017 does not suffer from either of these gameplay issues.

Will try the demo, but looks like it's not the game for me at this point. Pes 2017 modded will be my main it seems.
 
I think im just gonna go on a media blackout until the demo comes out, Ive only seen the teaser so far I dont think I'll bother with anything else
 
maybe there isn't enough time for big improvement anymore, but I think it will be really beautiful to add Broadcast camera to manual replays.
and shouldn't be hard at all to add this. :))
 
In real life football i could begin a tackle and then stop with it and i was pretty rubbish...this game emulates the best football players in the world...so i'm not so sure it is unrealistic (not saying it isn't either).

People have the right to complain about "bad defending" but what is bad defending. When a goal is scored, with hindsight the defending has always been bad, no matter how great a goal has been.

Two examples:

Coutinho's goal in the trailer of PES2018: somebody complained about the fact that there was a second defender nearby and that this defender did not step up to confront Coutinho. If he would have done that, Coutinho could easily have played a lateral pass to another attacker that was uncovered by the movement of the defender. That would also have been bad defending...and if i remember right this is exactly what also happened irl. Bad defending from the AI or realism?

Maradonna's famous goal in the 1986 WC in Mexico against England. And i mean the dribble, not the hand of God. In one of the movies about PES2018 that goals was brillinatly emulated. A fine example of one of the geniuses of football in his finest hour if you consider the glass half full. If you consider the glass half empty: bad defending from the AI. Oh, wiat a minute, this happened IRL at a World Cup against a team that is always considered among the press by the Murdoch bunch (the press)...oops.

My point: to Judge the game, one has to play it. And even then, very good football players also makes mistakes (but not always of course).

To me the real test will be playing a ML without scripting, matches that you loose because the opponent is too good or because or because you make mistakes and not because the game has decided that you should loose a game at that exact moment...
 
Chuny said:
They have a hard time focusing on delivering a good solid game every year with only one approach in mind so far. Imagine if they had to add more layers to it for the users to mess around with.

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying Konami can't.
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Fifa has it, NBA2K has it, not sure what other game has it, why can't PES? I'm not a programmer, but I see other games having the option no problem. Which makes me think that PES code must be one hell of a complex mess? Either that or they simply just don't want to give us their tools, thinking they might be giving away too much? Maybe their Japanese culture is playing a big role?
 
curdstar said:
While it is just a replay it is one of the most staggering things I have ever seen a football videogame replicate. Almost everything is perfect, if one were to look at it as and attempt to replicate how football looks when broadcast on TV.

That might sound like a cynical comment on the game (it'a all about gameplay/simulation etc.) but it is anything but. In all my 35 years of playing football videogames I have never seen anything quite like that generated by either franchise, and on any hardware.

Sure, you could say that it might be the camera pointing at a screen running the game that is playing tricks on the eyes. Who cares? It works. In isolation, as purely an example of what these games can produce in terms of realism, that wee looping video looks...well, it looks like something I simply haven't seen before from these games.

The camera movement is perfect. Almost everything, bar a miniscule amount of missing frames/footplanting (both look miles better than previous PES', regardless) look perfect. The way the ball moves on the finish is perfect.

Even if the game were to turn out to be guff, this wee video suggests that so far as well budgeted football videogames production goes in general, there is going to be some major leaps still to come, because that video could trick anyone into thinking it was real even after numerous glances.
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Redhat said:
That's always the pipe-dream, right? To have decision making and off-the-ball movement mimic real life. Obviously we're a long way off from having it be indiscernible from real life, but I dare say it's paramount in taking football games to the next-level. Unfortunately, coding for such a dynamic sport while factoring in the second-to-second decision making of 22 individual players and a ball is tall order.

With that said, I believe there is always room for improvement, especially when some of the issues I see in FIFA and PES seem rectifiable because they're in a somewhat poor state. Granted, I'm no game developer. Simple, or in this context, fundamental aspects like awareness for loose balls, spacial awareness while defending, tracking player runs, cutting out passing lanes, providing outlets, and what have you can and should be a primary focus.

[…]

Like every year, it's all what ifs and hypothetical propositions, BUT, and it's a large BOOTY, if Konami finally more or less nailed the on-the-ball aspects for 2018, it'll make improving the AI/off-the-ball mechanics that much easier going forward. Theoretically, of course. Again, programming for all of these variable for a frenetic sport like football must be a nightmare. Developers have my sympathy. For me, unless the off-the-ball side of the game is broken beyond belief, I'll take a highly improved on-the-ball football game as opposed to the reverse offering.
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Chuny said:
Adam has Tweeted some very revealing info today regarding the direction of PES as a PRODUCT. As a Business product.
Don't expect PES to ever be a full football simulator. They need to sell it as wide as possible, appeal to as many public as possible. This means giving up some things from the sim world, and then giving up things from the pick-up-and-play world too. It is business before and after all. And they'll try to keep it as realistic as possible while making money out of it.
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gerd said:
Dirt 4 has the option to choose either simulation or arcade. I think that is what PES also should but with sliders.
The game out of the box should be a simulation, but with the sliders you should turn it into an arcade gamestyle.
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I agree with all of the above. “On the ball” PES 2018 really does seem utterly sublime, a far greater leap forward than what I thought possible in a year's time. This is a fantastic, wonderful base upon which to build. PES Productions deserves major credit for accomplishing this. I would say that the groundwork is now in place to create something truly spectacular in the years to come. Aside from a few possible areas in need of some tweaking (e.g. shooting, first touch), the focus should now turn on the “off the ball” dimension of gameplay. This should be development priority n.1 for PES 2019 onwards.

Bearing in mind all the business-side considerations that have been made, I still believe that it will be possible to fully satisfy both the arcade as well as the sim audience. And in my opinion the key to achieving this lies in harnessing the power of customisation. Sliders, sim levels, arcade vs sim modes—there are a number of solutions that could be adopted, each with varying degrees of flexibility/complexity. I think it is IMPERATIVE that we actively campaign & advocate this, no matter how many iterations it will take before our wishes be fulfilled.
 
Lami said:
Fifa has it, NBA2K has it, not sure what other game has it, why can't PES? I'm not a programmer, but I see other games having the option no problem. Which makes me think that PES code must be one hell of a complex mess? Either that or they simply just don't want to give us their tools, thinking they might be giving away too much? Maybe their Japanese culture is playing a big role?
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I don't like sliders. Besides, sliders fix one thing and ruin another. It's up to them (dev team) to create a football game that has balance between arcade and simulation.
 
For the Podcast and what B and Adam says about OP shooting:

I don't think that lowering the shooting power would screw up anything or you would have to adjust 1000 other things to balance IF ITS ALREADY OP! Don't even need to touch the keepers/their animation. But even if you have...well just adjust the animation speed in general. You can do it in FIFA with sliders with ease so I don't think that a senior programmer would start to change values by values. There is a tool for that 100% sure.
 
Lami said:
Maybe their Japanese culture is playing a big role?
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I think that it is their perspective to assume their game for what it is. But since the issues with japanese devs (on PS360 already, Capcom exception) they've changed their way to works, inspired by bigs companies from occident.

Personnally i don't like that much that sliders things neither, the game is already different from on- to off-line, but having a "too much" different game when i switch to online mode... Not for me.
The game is what it is for everyone, and from my point of view i still with that "old" japanese conservative culture
 
zeemeister said:
The day they start putting sliders into PES is the day I stop buying it.

No thanks, I don't have time to figure out your game. :TTTH:
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Different way of looking at it. i think PES 17 was desperate for sliders, 1 to help the catch up method by reducing acceleration for AI and im sure matt 10 would have sorted out the wide open spaces. i look at as moulding into what i want out of a football game. I think FIFA 17 after latest patches with community sliders is a great game of football
 
Ameppe said:
I don't like sliders. Besides, sliders fix one thing and ruin another. It's up to them (dev team) to create a football game that has balance between arcade and simulation.
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zeemeister said:
The day they start putting sliders into PES is the day I stop buying it.

No thanks, I don't have time to figure out your game. :TTTH:
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Well providing sliders is just an option for people who are not satisfied with the vanilla gameplay. You don't need to touch them and just leave it on default if you don't like it. But it will help a lot of people who wants to tweak the game a little
 
Ameppe said:
I don't like sliders. Besides, sliders fix one thing and ruin another. It's up to them (dev team) to create a football game that has balance between arcade and simulation.
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vialli82 said:
Personnally i don't like that much that sliders things neither, the game is already different from on- to off-line, but having a "too much" different game when i switch to online mode... Not for me.
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zeemeister said:
The day they start putting sliders into PES is the day I stop buying it. No thanks, I don't have time to figure out your game. :TTTH:
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As a PES old timer fully I understand where you're coming from; personally I would also prefer a PES with no sliders that is 100% sim. But what if due to business-side reasons that simply cannot happen? The point I'm trying to make is that, insofar as videogames development priorities are obviously informed by “real-world” business-side considerations (whatever those may be), KONAMI's vision, as a profit-driven company, need not necessarily align perfectly with the sim aspirations of the hardcore PES fanbase. The final product will therefore always be something of a compromise. In my view, customisation options such as sliders etc. would be a smart way to “rebalance” the scales by empowering players to have some degree of control on where the boundaries of such a compromise are set. In other words, more customisation options have the potential to minimise if not entirely remove constraints deriving from “real world”, business-side concerns.
 
You are right in a way but do you think devs will be more or less careful read lazy if they put sliders in place?

Like I said no way not for me.

I remember when I use to play on PC people released all sorts of patches and stuff that I got into one after the other and in the end wound up with a broken mess that I had no joy in trying to fix.

OCD is a real thing people.

Hell I still don't have a full option file on PES 2017 because of it.
 
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GiogiPogi said:
In other words, more customisation options have the potential to minimise if not entirely remove constraints deriving from “real world”, business-side concerns.
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To me that's not true at all. Sliders are not the feature that fixes all the isssues a game has. If a game has an arcade core (like Pes and Fifa) you won't even obtain a 100% simulation trying to tweak them.

Elja said:
Well providing sliders is just an option for people who are not satisfied with the vanilla gameplay. You don't need to touch them and just leave it on default if you don't like it. But it will help a lot of people who wants to tweak the game a little
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You just said it:"tweak a little". If a game is arcade at its core you can't really make it a 100% simulative game.

I honestly don't care if they add it or not, but i will never use them. Considering most of my time i play online i won't even notice the tweaks...
 
zeemeister said:
You are right in a way but do you think devs will be more or less careful read lazy if they put sliders in place?

Like I said no way not for me.

I remember when I use to play on PC people released all sorts of patches and stuff that I got into one after the other and in the end wound up with a broken mess that I had no joy in trying to fix.

OCD is a real thing people.

Hell I still don't have a full option file on PES 2017 because of it.
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Exactly. Had the same experience on pc. Wil say far away from that from now on.
 
Cool little add
DC6b5EzXgAAartp.jpg
 
zeemeister said:
You are right in a way but do you think devs will be more or less careful read lazy if they put sliders in place?

Like I said no way not for me.

I remember when I use to play on PC people released all sorts of patches and stuff that I got into one after the other and in the end wound up with a broken mess that I had no joy in trying to fix.

OCD is a real thing people.

Hell I still don't have a full option file on PES 2017 because of it.
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Ameppe said:
To me that's not true at all. Sliders are not the feature that fixes all the isssues a game has. If a game has an arcade core (like Pes and Fifa) you won't even obtain a 100% simulation trying to tweak them.



You just said it:"tweak a little". If a game is arcade at its core you can't really make it a 100% simulative game.

I honestly don't care if they add it or not, but i will never use them. Considering most of my time i play online i won't even notice the tweaks...
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I'd obviously love to play the game SIM right out the box, but what if that never happens? In that case, I'd take sliders to try cater for my SIM needs.
 
zeemeister said:
You are right in a way but do you think devs will be more or less careful read lazy if they put sliders in place?

Like I said no way not for me.

I remember when I use to play on PC people released all sorts of patches and stuff that I got into one after the other and in the end wound up with a broken mess that I had no joy in trying to fix.

OCD is a real thing people.
Click to expand...

Ameppe said:
To me that's not true at all. Sliders are not the feature that fixes all the isssues a game has. If a game has an arcade core (like Pes and Fifa) you won't even obtain a 100% simulation trying to tweak them.

You just said it:"tweak a little". If a game is arcade at its core you can't really make it a 100% simulative game.

I honestly don't care if they add it or not, but i will never use them. Considering most of my time i play online i won't even notice the tweaks...
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LOL I can definitely attest that OCD is indeed a real thing, I've lost count of how many hours I've wasted tagging my music collection… :LOL: But just as no-one forced me to plow through thousand of albums to ensure All Words Are Capitalised, no-one would force PES players to spend hours fiddling with sliders and whatnot. No-one would compel you to use the sliders, but for those who like them, the option would be there should they want to take advantage of it. Once again, I would personally prefer a PES that is heavily sim oriented, but if that is not realistically possible due to broader factors (i.e. arcade “sells” better), then rather than settling for a more arcadey “second best” I would prefer having the option to tailor the game to suit my needs and make it as sim as possible. Moreover, my idea of what makes a football videogame a simulation, as well as where I place the sweet spot between realism and fun, might differ from yours, therefore having the option to “adjust” some gameplay elements would be beneficial in my opinion. So I'm not talking about taking a purely arcade game and turning it into a sim (a purely conjectural scenario anyway since PES' DNA has never been prevalently arcadey, if anything the opposite), but of finding a realistic way to allow KONAMI to make a game that is not so challenging as to alienate large chunks of buyers and hence fail to sell, whilst enabling hardcore sim players such as myself to adjust the gameplay in ways that would increase our enjoyment. I think this might be the only realistically practical way for KONAMI to have their profit cake, and for us sim players to eat it too, if that makes sense.
 
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Looks great, ball physics and animations

But looks like the guys never made sliding tackle and have some difficult to defend/press, many open breach when they switches with the players.
I don't know if that's the game which makes them playing like this or if the def. system lacks of responsiveness (like PES 2014)

We can't say without a pad
 
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