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PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

PRO_TOO said:
It was said in the podcast... it's for the long hair to look "in motion" when the player is moving. Looks kinda weird when standing.
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Ah well, I understand, that's actually no decent way to simulate hair motion.

Btw. I really hope those two WENB videos are just not captured with the best settings because they look a bit choppy and not as smooth as the videos we have seen before.
 
curdstar said:
While it is just a replay it is one of the most staggering things I have ever seen a football videogame replicate. Almost everything is perfect, if one were to look at it as and attempt to replicate how football looks when broadcast on TV.

That might sound like a cynical comment on the game (it'a all about gameplay/simulation etc.) but it is anything but. In all my 35 years of playing football videogames I have never seen anything quite like that generated by either franchise, and on any hardware.
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My thoughts as well. As you said, it's just in isolation, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't extremely impressed with that bit of play. It made me very giddy. It's also such relief to see that the animation stitching (seemingly) looks vastly improved compared to its predecessor. I noticed the difference with the E3 footage, and that GIF was further proof that the transitions while running/turning with the ball are superior. Like most, it had been a bugbear in recent years.

I've seen some people on Twitter poke fun at how the attacker immediately gets up to celebrate fouling a harsh challenge, but I've witnessed that sort of thing countless times over the years. Players take knocks or hard challenges while in the process of scoring and get right back up because adrenaline/rush of scoring takes precedent.

The seamless transition between scoring and celebration is a sight to behold. Not only that, but the player is starting from a prone position and it still looks fantastic. The little attention to detail that PES was always known for adds up to improve the user's overall experience and immersion. This seemingly insignificant, trivial inclusion will work wonders in terms of improving satisfaction from scoring. I just hope that shooting itself is up to snuff.
 
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Redhat said:
My thoughts as well. As you said, it's just in isolation, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't extremely impressed with that bit of play. It made me very giddy. It's also such relief to see that the animation stitching (seemingly) looks vastly improved compared to its predecessor. I noticed the difference with the E3 footage, and that GIF was further proof that the transitions while running/turning with the ball are superior. Like most, it had been a bugbear in recent years.

I've seen some people on Twitter poke fun at how the attacker immediately gets up to celebrate fouling a harsh challenge, but I've witnessed that sort of thing countless times over the years. Players take knocks or hard challenges while in the process of scoring and get right back up because adrenaline/rush of scoring takes precedent.

The seamless transition between scoring and celebration is a sight to behold. Not only that, but the player is starting from a prone position and it still looks fantastic. The little attention to detail that PES was always known for adds up to improve the user's overall experience and immersion. This seemingly insignificant, trivial inclusion will work wonders in terms of improving satisfaction from scoring. I just hope that shooting itself is up to snuff.
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From what I can see there is a lot of un-wasted animations. That is a real big plus.

However, the video, and pictures, continue to show lack of attention by AI and teammate AI (non-controlled). It's the ADD, attention deficit defending, that I coined for FIFA - and it royally screwed up FIFA's "marking" slider value for years.

What I've accepted though is that my concerns are very easily "out of sight, out of mind" type ones. Attention to detail is fantastic, but attention to where the ball, and players are, would make so much more of a believable difference, to me.

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I'm still hyped, but I just have to accept that some of the off the ball behaviors are going to stick out like a sore thumb.
 
Matt10 said:
From what I can see there is a lot of un-wasted animations. That is a real big plus.

However, the video, and pictures, continue to show lack of attention by AI and teammate AI (non-controlled). It's the ADD, attention deficit defending, that I coined for FIFA - and it royally screwed up FIFA's "marking" slider value for years.

What I've accepted though is that my concerns are very easily "out of sight, out of mind" type ones. Attention to detail is fantastic, but attention to where the ball, and players are, would make so much more of a believable difference, to me.



I'm still hyped, but I just have to accept that some of the off the ball behaviors are going to stick out like a sore thumb.
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Oh, most certainly. That's why I prefaced by discussing that GIF in a vacuum. Obviously a football game, or any sports game goes beyond locomotion and animations for aesthetic purposes. The defensive AI in PES and FIFA is lackluster and a bit daft, so hopefully it doesn't hamper the overall game too much. It's just nice to see movement, a fundamental aspect of any game, look vastly improved.
 
Redhat said:
Oh, most certainly. That's why I prefaced by discussing that GIF in a vacuum. Obviously a football game, or any sports game goes beyond locomotion and animations for aesthetic purposes. The defensive AI in PES and FIFA is lackluster and a bit daft, so hopefully it doesn't hamper the overall game too much. It's just nice to see movement, a fundamental aspect of any game, look vastly improved.
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Agreed. The movement, for movement's sake, is solid. On the ball, or just slightly near it, is superb. I've accepted that the game is just going to have to have those off-the-ball irregularities so not every game ends 0-0.
 
Matt10 said:
Agreed. The movement, for movement's sake, is solid. On the ball, or just slightly near it, is superb. I've accepted that the game is just going to have to have those off-the-ball irregularities so not every game ends 0-0.
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That's always the pipe-dream, right? To have decision making and off-the-ball movement mimic real life. Obviously we're a long way off from having it be indiscernible from real life, but I dare say it's paramount in taking football games to the next-level. Unfortunately, coding for such a dynamic sport while factoring in the second-to-second decision making of 22 individual players and a ball is tall order.

With that said, I believe there is always room for improvement, especially when some of the issues I see in FIFA and PES seem rectifiable because they're in a somewhat poor state. Granted, I'm no game developer. Simple, or in this context, fundamental aspects like awareness for loose balls, spacial awareness while defending, tracking player runs, cutting out passing lanes, providing outlets, and what have you can and should be a primary focus.

I hate to bring FIFA into the equation, but since this a discussion that's applicable to all football games, I figure it's acceptable. The amount of times I hurl obscenities at my screen when I'm on the ball and an AI teammate decides to sprint full pelt to within inches of the space I'm occupying/entering... well, it's high. Too high. How about when my teammate doesn't have the basic awareness to cover the most obvious of passing angles and it results in a preventable counter? My PES teammates and the player I control lack the basic awareness and anticipation to latch onto loose balls, or stick a leg in. Remember when your defenders used to track runners 15-yards offsides which resulted in them holding hands in your own box? I could go on and on about the off-the-ball issues of both games (you're aware of these issues more than most in the community), but you get my point. Both systems need to work in harmony to truly deliver a fantastic experience.

Like every year, it's all what ifs and hypothetical propositions, BUT, and it's a large BOOTY, if Konami finally more or less nailed the on-the-ball aspects for 2018, it'll make improving the AI/off-the-ball mechanics that much easier going forward. Theoretically, of course. Again, programming for all of these variable for a frenetic sport like football must be a nightmare. Developers have my sympathy. For me, unless the off-the-ball side of the game is broken beyond belief, I'll take a highly improved on-the-ball football game as opposed to the reverse offering.

I've rambled. Anyway, I just hope that the game is good. Please be good.
 
We'll get there Matt.
I'm sure PES 2019 will have Sliders.
They needed to have a rock-solid foundation. They got it with PES 2017. Now they took it to the next level and next year will be the year when they start adding the "toys". I'm sure of that. They are overly confident now. Confident enough to start innovating again.
 
Cesc Fabregas said:
Why that ugly white light around the hairs? :CONFUSE:
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It looks like a poorly implemented method of AA because it is more complicated to get rid of aliasing on hair than the rest of the character model (SSAO can also cause a similar glitch). Hopefully we can inject a better form of AA into the PC version to get rid of it.
 
I'm biting my nails for the anxiety of watching this video!
Broadcast cam....... drooling!
Does it still have that terrible, terrible, automatic zoom-in, in certain parts of the pitch?

I WILL NOT GIVE IN.
 
From what I heard in the podcast, defending will be rewarding as it will require timing instead of button mashing in this years game, I hope it doesn't get automated come release, cos il agree with Brian if it does than the game has no chance of going sim and Iv given up hope too cos that the direction konami will want to go and no point giving feedback anymore.
 
Adam has Tweeted some very revealing info today regarding the direction of PES as a PRODUCT. As a Business product.
Don't expect PES to ever be a full football simulator. They need to sell it as wide as possible, appeal to as many public as possible. This means giving up some things from the sim world, and then giving up things from the pick-up-and-play world too. It is business before and after all. And they'll try to keep it as realistic as possible while making money out of it.

Honestly, can you blame them?.
 
curdstar said:
While it is just a replay it is one of the most staggering things I have ever seen a football videogame replicate. Almost everything is perfect, if one were to look at it as and attempt to replicate how football looks when broadcast on TV.

That might sound like a cynical comment on the game (it'a all about gameplay/simulation etc.) but it is anything but. In all my 35 years of playing football videogames I have never seen anything quite like that generated by either franchise, and on any hardware.

Sure, you could say that it might be the camera pointing at a screen running the game that is playing tricks on the eyes. Who cares? It works. In isolation, as purely an example of what these games can produce in terms of realism, that wee looping video looks...well, it looks like something I simply haven't seen before from these games.

The camera movement is perfect. Almost everything, bar a miniscule amount of missing frames/footplanting (both look miles better than previous PES', regardless) look perfect. The way the ball moves on the finish is perfect.

Even if the game were to turn out to be guff, this wee video suggests that so far as well budgeted football videogames production goes in general, there is going to be some major leaps still to come, because that video could trick anyone into thinking it was real even after numerous glances.
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You can quote me on this: this little 5 second clip will finally replace pes 5/6 and PS2 cgi intros as points of reference for years now when the usual frustration and waiting for the next version season begins (if the games don't deliver).
 
Chuny said:
Adam has Tweeted some very revealing info today regarding the direction of PES as a PRODUCT. As a Business product.
Don't expect PES to ever be a full football simulator. They need to sell it as wide as possible, appeal to as many public as possible. This means giving up some things from the sim world, and then giving up things from the pick-up-and-play world too. It is business before and after all. And they'll try to keep it as realistic as possible while making money out of it.

Honestly, can you blame them?.
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Just give me sliders then. Keep the default version for the mass appeal and leave us SIM heads adjust with sliders. Like @gerd said, nba2k can, why can't pes?
 
Topaz said:
CPU misplace passes even in Superstar at 5:41. My friend wasn't lying!!
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In pes 2017 cpu also sometimes misplace passes in the latest patch.

Chuny said:
I'm biting my nails for the anxiety of watching this video!
Broadcast cam....... drooling!
Does it still have that terrible, terrible, automatic zoom-in, in certain parts of the pitch?
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It still has the auto zoom, it's there in the video
 
PES94 said:
^
What's up with the GK positioning!
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There was a tutorial screen in the video about 'having the GK make a step' to guess the right direction: I believe you could manually move the GK on the line during FKs... Maybe I'm wrong though and it only works when the opponent shoots.
 
Lami said:
Just give me sliders then. Keep the default version for the mass appeal and leave us SIM heads adjust with sliders. Like @gerd said, nba2k can, why can't pes?
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Or have an option to turn on "sim" mode which is disabled by default. The "sim" mode will basically change the gameplay like it was on E3 whereas they can do whatever they want with the "arcade" mode.
 
Lami said:
Just give me sliders then. Keep the default version for the mass appeal and leave us SIM heads adjust with sliders. Like @gerd said, nba2k can, why can't pes?
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They have a hard time focusing on delivering a good solid game every year with only one approach in mind so far. Imagine if they had to add more layers to it for the users to mess around with.

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying Konami can't.
 
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