PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Didn't get into ML this year, mostly been playing regular leagues and Iceland in the World Cup. When I play ML I never pick Liverpool as I always start with a lower team and prefer to rather play against Liverpool at some point. But since the latest update where you can actually play CL with Liverpool straight away, I started up a new league.

On top player / manual passing I was having a nightmare season for most of the start. Lost match after match and the CL group was in shambles. But I stuck with it, and eventually it clicked. I ended in 6th place in the League and have only the CL Final to play, which I have been saving since the end of April, as I don't want to play it half asleep from working in lambing 18 hours a day.

I played PSG and Barca on my way to the final and won both on away goals. Extremely tense and ultimately satisfying matches.

So yeah I am pretty happy with PES 18 right now. It did take a lot of time for them to get it mostly right, though.
 
slamsoze said:
Ok here is today's story. I know it has been retold many times but really the Exhibition mode plays so much better than Master League, that tempted me to do this post. Ok the main flaws of the game are still present, but the frequency of gameplay's bad aspects is reduced dramatically and with less annoying script you can even see some stats coming true on the field.
So as i was fixing my Option File today, after the last DLC "hurricane" that reverted most things in database, i decided to go on a match to check my edits as the old times. I went Guinea (me) VS Burkina-Faso(COM) in the VERSUS mode cause i also wante d to unlock some PS trophies. The game was 10 minutes, superstar.I got 1-1,but win was not the purpose of match.Even some momentum attacks from COM in the last minutes didn't annoy me at all. It went so good, compared to the bad Master League game pace, i really wish ML could be something like Exhibition. To give you examples, I even outrunned some opponent defenders with my WFs when in ML with Mbappe i can't run faster than the referee! There was a nice slow build up, i earned 2 free kicks from fouls, i can't remember the last time i earned 2 fouls in ML! The sad fact was i wanted to listen to Guinea's and Burkina-Faso anthems before kick-off, but it seems they don't exist in game as they are unlicensed national teams.National anthems before these matches is very atmospheric and representive of real life matches. :(
Here are some screenshots:
From HALF-TIME
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From FULL-TIME
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FY8F0hM.jpg

And from the VSCOM record screen
FzPg2BJ.jpg
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It’s so frustrating when exhibition/versus/league mode plays so well,probably the best I’ve seen in a Pes game for a long time,yet the ML is just a mess
 
It's such a shame ML plays so differently, thoughts on here have always put me off starting one.

Played a WC tonight with Argentina TP FM passing. Some great games with some great individual plays from Messi to beat 2-3 men with the simple flick of a button to the powerhouse Higuain up top. Love the creativity you can utilise with manual passing even if it does sacrifice player individuality. PA1 is too assisted.

If they could sort the ML scripting, have proper pace differences in players, revamp the shooting styles, speed and variety hinging on player stats, and sort the fouls etc this game could be brilliant.

Will start a league at the weekend to see how that plays. Haven't done much tinkering of tactics but it does seem to have good depth to create good variety.

I'm a nostalgic PES player at heart, still love PES 6 fully patched, but PES 18 still has brilliance somewhat at its core.
 
martyl2 said:
It's such a shame ML plays so differently, thoughts on here have always put me off starting one.

Played a WC tonight with Argentina TP FM passing. Some great games with some great individual plays from Messi to beat 2-3 men with the simple flick of a button to the powerhouse Higuain up top. Love the creativity you can utilise with manual passing even if it does sacrifice player individuality. PA1 is too assisted.

If they could sort the ML scripting, have proper pace differences in players, revamp the shooting styles, speed and variety hinging on player stats, and sort the fouls etc this game could be brilliant.

Will start a league at the weekend to see how that plays. Haven't done much tinkering of tactics but it does seem to have good depth to create good variety.

I'm a nostalgic PES player at heart, still love PES 6 fully patched, but PES 18 still has brilliance somewhat at its core.
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Couldn't agree more on the brilliant player individuality when playing outside the ML,I'm still at the beginning of a league campaign (10 games,and 5 on a different save) but I haven't seen the bs you see in ML yet,plays very very good,only reason I'm not further in is that I gave up on this game in Octoberish, returned back a month a go,but still pushing my ML on 17 quite heavily,3 games left on it this season,then I'll pick up my league again

To bad they messed up the ML,I've had a string of really good games though,but the horrible ones makes you quit
And manual is absolutely the way to go with this one
 
It seems they reached the limit for their AI so scripting and handicapping are the only paths for more difficulty. I remember in pes 2015 & 2016 ML superstar the same scripted difficulty, but back then it was applied only in Rival matches. Still recall how it took me 3 seadons with Leeds to achieve a draw against Chelsea when in the same time i won PL,CL and cup.All the catch up ,stupid defending,miss passing and the crazy come back logic were there.It seems that since then they implemented in more games in ML season, remember in 2017 the first two seasons, i lost in CL and EL semifinals in thw 2nd leg both times i won 1-0 home match and lost 3-1 away against Atletico Madrid and i couldn't achieve 3 consecutive passes in that games.So in 2018 it was expanded since many players demanded a "better" challenge and we got what we got , a 2018 ML full of RNG like games where all your players are playing like they have -50% in all stats and COMs players like +90 OPR.
As for 2019 possibly will remain the same AI for COM as i haven't read any news about improved AI.And the focus is unfortunately MyClub.This is something i have accepted since if you notice the ML UI is the same the last four years,the only change is that it goes horizontal to vertical the one year and vice-versa the other.
 
slamsoze said:
It seems they reached the limit for their AI so scripting and handicapping are the only paths for more difficulty.
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My theory on this - the changes in code that have improved the "flow" of the game (most reviews point to this new flow being the biggest improvement of the game), have had a major impact on the AI (teams now play more similarly to each other than in any previous PES, IMO).

What creates that flow? A) More freedom in movement, B) faster input response time. Which means the AI A) has more variables to process in its positioning, B) has to react more quickly itself.

To counteract this, you've now got heavier ML scripting, and (excluding manual) passes that are more laser-guided than ever before. The AI would collapse otherwise.
 
It is weird to me as i am not a programmer how the AI can't outplay a human fairly and i explain:As a human is more clear that you have the "freedom"of choise when the AI plays according to an algorithm based on your input.By freedom i don't mean you can do whatever you want,it is still a game but you can be more unpredictable like going one on one with the opponent keeper and instead of shoot do a manual pass tou your own goalkeeper something that the AI is not programmed to do and will never.
So based on this my opinion is the AI could use its advantages which are: it can control more than one player at a time when human can control one player hardly two or three with [ ] pressure or the complex manual of-the-ball when attacking with L1×R stick.To be honest that was the script for me in the early games PES 3-6.The stats mattered but the CPU used to take better positions depending on situations and when playing better by controlling more players than human player who always controls one.At least that's the situation as i have it in my mind.Since 2011 it seemed to me that they changed this pattern and made it more simplistic and binary for them.The 90 player outplays the 85 player.And since this year we have the paradox the 70 ovr CPU player outplays the whatever ovr human player.
 
slamsoze said:
It is weird to me as i am not a programmer how the AI can't outplay a human fairly
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Many people will say that this is pretty hard to do, and I won't disagree with that, but konami are not making it any easier or even bothering too much. A problem in recent years is how the game can be radically different year after year. You really need incremental fixing and updates to reach a good point but they seem to throw last year's game in the bin all to often as if they are in a constant state of panic. The fact that 2018 is the follow up to 2017 makes ZERO sense. The gameplay is completely different, of course now the AI has to be done from scratch. So they rush something that is barely fit for purpose. "Is the AI hard to play against and does it score goals? Check! Ship it!".

pes2016 was not much better either. 99% of AI goals were through balls followed up with a low shot in the far corner...

Now, if pes2014 was a fresh start in the fox engine and they could just stick with their vision and tweaked and improved the game just by 10% every year... That could be great.
 
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manmachine said:
...from scratch. So they rush something that is barely fit for purpose. "Is the AI hard to play against and does it score goals? Check! Ship it!".
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I believe the prerelease dialogue is:
-MyClub?
-check
-pay-TO-get legends?
-check
-Offline/ML?
-Ehmm..Needs some more testing!
-Who cares about offline! Check! And ship it!
 
I personaly like the PES 2018 difficulty. Ok, the AI could be more creative and the matches less scripted but, its better than choose an high stats team and beat up everybody, even playing as visitors. Imo, its just a matter of tweak things a little bit. Decrease handcap, add more lines to AI or something, to make AI variate their formations and tactics and make the stats really matter.

I really like the agressive and the pressure on mid field. I wanted to be more difficult, to trap the ball with less skilled players and to ping pon passes. Offcourse, CPU should play by these rules too.
 
How's the penalty situation in 18's ML?
I just played my CL Semi Vs Spurs on 17,I've put together a little clip I'll be putting up later in the ML thread.
But to compare what they've missed on 18 Vs 17.

A short recap on my game.
Harry Kane,diving,got booked (serves him right
Three shooting chances from fk,one goal,one in the crossbar
7 yellow cards for spurs.
One penalty for me.
Put all those together,and it would take 10 ML seasons to tick all those boxes.
Plus two chipped goals for me.
Insane game,to bad they screwed it up on 18
 
The only year that it felt like Konami put REAL effort on gameplay was PES 2013, and the result is this: this is the ONLY game that is virtually praised by everyone out of all pes game released after ps2 era, despite all the limitations of the engine.

Do I need to say anything else ?

If they really focused on gameplay like they did with pes 2013, Im sure we would have a very fun game to say the least.

But we are now on the era that Myclub and legenda are all that matter for Konami. Fuck this shit!
 
Chris Davies said:
To counteract this, you've now got heavier ML scripting, and (excluding manual) passes that are more laser-guided than ever before. The AI would collapse otherwise.
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I don't think it's a case of helping the AI to not collapse.
It took me a long time to understand what you were saying during first weeks or months of PES 2018: PES takes a lot of shortcuts.
You stated this since day one. I thought you were wrong. Now I think you are absolutely right.

So, the laser-guided passes, the lack of fouls, the perfect first touch passes/shots, the perfect ball control, all serve to the very purpose: A pick-up-and-play game. Not much to master. No learning curve. Simple. And, of corse, it helps to make the game an attack-oriented game which is much more appealing to the casual player.

Can't you see? It's the shortcuts you were talking about since this game came out.
 
It's really deteriorating.
It's all about pick up and play,not much to master now a days really.
When playing the much hated Pes 16 last night,that game has some amazing ball physics,error in passing from the CPU,pace being spot on.
If they hadn't screwed up the keepers and very little foul that game would be one of the best.
First time playing it in ages,and take away the screws ups mentioned,Konami were close on that one,and Vs 18 it feels fresher and much more responsive.
Don't know what they do to their games nowadays
 
rockstrongo said:
It's really deteriorating.
It's all about pick up and play,not much to master now a days really.
When playing the much hated Pes 16 last night,that game has some amazing ball physics,error in passing from the CPU,pace being spot on.
If they hadn't screwed up the keepers and very little foul that game would be one of the best.
First time playing it in ages,and take away the screws ups mentioned,Konami were close on that one,and Vs 18 it feels fresher and much more responsive.
Don't know what they do to their games nowadays
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The more you point your product towards a specific type of consumer/costumer, the more you're limiting its sale.
That goes for any type of product/service you're trying to sell.

So if you think about it, by making an easy to play game, which doesn't make you go bananas over how to control the ball after a long cross, or how to position yourself to take a good shot at goal instead of kicking the ball straight to Row Z, and end to end with a lot of action, you're more appealing to the overall public, hence more sales. Throw nice Neymar and Ronaldo faces on top of that and you've got yourself a very eye candy product.
 
Chuny said:
The more you point your product towards a specific type of consumer/costumer, the more you're limiting its sale.
That goes for any type of product/service you're trying to sell.

So if you think about it, by making an easy to play game, which doesn't make you go bananas over how to control the ball after a long cross, or how to position yourself to take a good shot at goal instead of kicking the ball straight to Row Z, and end to end with a lot of action, you're more appealing to the overall public, hence more sales. Throw nice Neymar and Ronaldo faces on top of that and you've got yourself a very eye candy product.
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Sadly it's the future for all of our sports games right now,on FIFA (not always) you can at least get a decent offline gameplay vs Pes ML,but then you have to fight a career mode with strange coding( teams winning leagues on 72 p,big teams in the relegation zone) that gets frustrating after a few seasons.

So were left with two football games that really doesn't deliver anything exciting anymore.
Or we have to take what's served for us.

I've stepped out of the overpowered Premier league on fifa,playing BL,and enjoying it.
Same thing on Pes 18,no ML,just league mode,and enjoying it.
That's how I survive these games
 
Lami said:
Not realistic.
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Hahahaha thankfully. I battered them first half, couldn't score and got done on the break.

Replayed the game and was 4-0 down after 65mins. I've never been battered like that on PES especially on professional. I quit in embarrassment.
 
All your posts make me wanna play league mode so bad.
I'll do that when I get back home.
I believe all your impressions, just can't wait getting my own ones.

There should be a petition or something.
ML's gameplay has to be the same thing as in all other offline modes.

What the hell are they doing wrong there??
 
i have now gone from full manual professional to 1 assisted passing and advanced shooting on superstar.
As much as i enjoyed the game on full manual it was really lacking in goal variety and also individuality feels like it killed. I've scored some goals from tight angles using advanced that i just wouldn't see on full manual.
Appreciate its a fine balance as if you go too assisted then it takes away the joy of scoring. Going up to superstar makes it harder to create the chance so the sense of achievement is not just putting the ball in the net but getting the chance in the first place.
 
hitmanuk said:
i have now gone from full manual professional to 1 assisted passing and advanced shooting on superstar.
As much as i enjoyed the game on full manual it was really lacking in goal variety and also individuality feels like it killed. I've scored some goals from tight angles using advanced that i just wouldn't see on full manual.
Appreciate its a fine balance as if you go too assisted then it takes away the joy of scoring. Going up to superstar makes it harder to create the chance so the sense of achievement is not just putting the ball in the net but getting the chance in the first place.
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Top player fully manual passing & basic shooting is the sweet spot for me, though the shooting really needs to be overhauled, and indeed have way more variety
 
martyl2 said:
Top player fully manual passing & basic shooting is the sweet spot for me, though the shooting really needs to be overhauled, and indeed have way more variety
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Have you noticed that your players react slower when switching between them on manual,and also being further away from opponents when defending vs Assisted passing.
This is evident on Professional difficulty,I wonder if it is the manual or the difficulty?

When I play PA1 my players react faster and are closer to the opponents
Haven’t played manual TP yet though
 
slamsoze said:
Better no more data packs and live updates please,so we can start working for our OF final form. On the other hand gameplay patches/fix updates are always welcome, although seems that KONAMI is finished supporting pes 2018.
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Quite frankly Konami stopped supporting PES in the PS2 days. Since then all they've done is churn out a budget effort every year and mugs keep buying it.
 
Since you brought this subject, yesturday I was watching some videos on youtube then I ended watching a funny video about some pro Fifa player rage quiting on a tornament. So, I dont have Fifa, long time didnt see a gameplay video of that game and you know what? Fifa looks arcade to me. It way too frenatic. Animations are too fast. Its all instantaneous. Theres no momentum between the input, the motion of the player and the ball contact. It looks choppy and ultra fast IMO. Dont know how to explain. How fifa players call that a sim? Again, IMO, today comparing PES with Fifa its like comparing Nba 2k with NBA Live.

To me konami is on the right track again. Perhaps we should be more careful with our feeds so they dont screw this up.
 
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