Dennis_87
Physics n' Animations Fan
- 27 September 2017
Illuminati confirmed.I always knew these Jap little wizards had sold their souls to the Devil.
PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread
- Thread starter ThomasGOAL
- Start date
slamsoze
International
- 28 September 2010
Or maybe it is their POV of tweaking/rebalancing the gameplay.
manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
BTW, I'm currently playing we9le, a game with too many fouls, but the pace of the game doesn't suffer at all. How? Well 99% of the time play resumes no more than a second later. No replays and cutscenes for every stupid foul (unless there's a penalty/injury, but you get the point). I don't understand this notion that fouls somehow hurt the gameplay. Respect the player's time, don't display the exact same cutscene for a billion times over and everything will be fine.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Of course Chris, these changes would make the game much better there is no doubt about that. I basically agree with 90% of what you think about the game.
The backheels? Would less backheels make the game better? IMO not. But it doesn't matter that much.
Slamsoze, it didn't mean to offend you.
Apart from that, i maintain everything i wrote in my post. Your post is only an example and yes i'm pretty sure Konami reads this forum or has read it. For their sake, and for the game i hope they don't anymore...
More than 50% of what is written in this thread (pro or con) hass the intellectual level of a 10 year old...
I know this sounds pompous, but it is my honest opinion...
The backheels? Would less backheels make the game better? IMO not. But it doesn't matter that much.
Slamsoze, it didn't mean to offend you.
Apart from that, i maintain everything i wrote in my post. Your post is only an example and yes i'm pretty sure Konami reads this forum or has read it. For their sake, and for the game i hope they don't anymore...
More than 50% of what is written in this thread (pro or con) hass the intellectual level of a 10 year old...
I know this sounds pompous, but it is my honest opinion...
Bravez
Championship
- 26 June 2005
Had a few games at the weekend after a long break from all football games. I hadn't played FIFA really this year but bought it this weekend after seeing it on sale on PSN and craving Old Trafford, licenses etc. After a fair number of games on FIFA it actually re-enforced my (positive) opinion on this year's PES.
Firstly, the game is FAR from perfect. Too end to end (same on FIFA for me) ball physics are underwhelming and shooting far too samey regardless of player (amongst other things) but on the whole I think this year's PES is very strong.
I've started playing 20min games with 0 pass assistance and have found this totally opens up the game. I'm getting a good amount of fouls and, somewhat oddly, since moving to 20min games i really notice the auto shielding. Maybe it's because i build up a lot slower and don't rush.
The patterns of play etc are still there of course but I find PES recreates the pace and flow of football far far better than FIFA this year.
Backheels also annoy me but it's something I'm able to overlook. I LOVE the dribbling and the way you can wrong foot players with the right move or feather the left stick and get a little drop of the shoulder. Mixed with 0 assist passing, i'm able to recreate some real wow moments which are still very realistic. If only the shooting was more satisfying
Firstly, the game is FAR from perfect. Too end to end (same on FIFA for me) ball physics are underwhelming and shooting far too samey regardless of player (amongst other things) but on the whole I think this year's PES is very strong.
I've started playing 20min games with 0 pass assistance and have found this totally opens up the game. I'm getting a good amount of fouls and, somewhat oddly, since moving to 20min games i really notice the auto shielding. Maybe it's because i build up a lot slower and don't rush.
The patterns of play etc are still there of course but I find PES recreates the pace and flow of football far far better than FIFA this year.
Backheels also annoy me but it's something I'm able to overlook. I LOVE the dribbling and the way you can wrong foot players with the right move or feather the left stick and get a little drop of the shoulder. Mixed with 0 assist passing, i'm able to recreate some real wow moments which are still very realistic. If only the shooting was more satisfying
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Remember having a tough time liking 17 for a while,until I started playing 20 min games,completely changed how the game flows,me and a few other guys tried it on 16 as well,but no dice,games ended 7-1 etc.Had a few games at the weekend after a long break from all football games. I hadn't played FIFA really this year but bought it this weekend after seeing it on sale on PSN and craving Old Trafford, licenses etc. After a fair number of games on FIFA it actually re-enforced my (positive) opinion on this year's PES.
Firstly, the game is FAR from perfect. Too end to end (same on FIFA for me) ball physics are underwhelming and shooting far too samey regardless of player (amongst other things) but on the whole I think this year's PES is very strong.
I've started playing 20min games with 0 pass assistance and have found this totally opens up the game. I'm getting a good amount of fouls and, somewhat oddly, since moving to 20min games i really notice the auto shielding. Maybe it's because i build up a lot slower and don't rush.
The patterns of play etc are still there of course but I find PES recreates the pace and flow of football far far better than FIFA this year.
Backheels also annoy me but it's something I'm able to overlook. I LOVE the dribbling and the way you can wrong foot players with the right move or feather the left stick and get a little drop of the shoulder. Mixed with 0 assist passing, i'm able to recreate some real wow moments which are still very realistic. If only the shooting was more satisfying
It’s no quick fix,but it makes it much better.
Did the same thing back when I started playing FIFA 15
Makes the cpu less itchy,and makes the games so much better
I don't really know why I can't play more than 3-4 matches in a row with PES 2018... It saddens me as I think it's all in all a pretty good game.
There are several things that are great, some that are not-so-great and a couple that are plain wrong and that just keep me away from playing it consistently (spoiler: yeah here we go again with a rant about backheels): I've seen a CPU-controlled defender, pressed by one of my strikers, get rid of the ball with a backheel to a teammate he would have never been able to see if it were a real life match, and it felt almost laser-guided. It happens way too often (not only with a backheel of course, also with normal passes) and this leads the CPU to have an insane amount of completed passes in a row at times.
The good thing is that those CPU passes aren't always perfect, once in a while they also go fully balls up: I've had a match (Italy vs. Germany) in which a completely wrong pass by Hummels (which was intended to reach Boateng I believe) resulted in my Immobile breaking through and beating Neuer one-on-one with a perfectly aimed low shot.
This is the kind of things that make me love PES for example (it truly was a "wow, I can't believe he didn't see it coming" moment like I hadn't experienced in a long time with a PES game), but at the same time these good things make me angry, because they remind me of how much potential this game has, a potential that is hardly ever exploited to its maximum.
Sometimes when I decide to play some PES I just fire up PES 2015 and play a couple of matches with it, honestly I still like it more than any other current-gen PES game.
There are several things that are great, some that are not-so-great and a couple that are plain wrong and that just keep me away from playing it consistently (spoiler: yeah here we go again with a rant about backheels): I've seen a CPU-controlled defender, pressed by one of my strikers, get rid of the ball with a backheel to a teammate he would have never been able to see if it were a real life match, and it felt almost laser-guided. It happens way too often (not only with a backheel of course, also with normal passes) and this leads the CPU to have an insane amount of completed passes in a row at times.
The good thing is that those CPU passes aren't always perfect, once in a while they also go fully balls up: I've had a match (Italy vs. Germany) in which a completely wrong pass by Hummels (which was intended to reach Boateng I believe) resulted in my Immobile breaking through and beating Neuer one-on-one with a perfectly aimed low shot.
This is the kind of things that make me love PES for example (it truly was a "wow, I can't believe he didn't see it coming" moment like I hadn't experienced in a long time with a PES game), but at the same time these good things make me angry, because they remind me of how much potential this game has, a potential that is hardly ever exploited to its maximum.
Sometimes when I decide to play some PES I just fire up PES 2015 and play a couple of matches with it, honestly I still like it more than any other current-gen PES game.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Pes 15 is still a fantastic game,even if we’re the only ones thinking so
Had a tough time liking it until I started paying attention to marking etc,but it’s a good game when set up right,and for me on Xbox one,the last fully licensed Serie A,which makes it a dream compared to 16/17/18
Dennis_87
Physics n' Animations Fan
- 27 September 2017
In a real game when a team has the possesion and their backline are high and then they suddenly lose the ball and the opponent forward runs on them you see that their defence are backing up and run backwards to protect their territory.Don't you see that in real games?What are they supposed to do?Stay high and risk being dribbled and then the forward will be alone with the keeper?I think that this is natural and must be in the game.The problem is that your forwards also in some situations are suddenly immediately start running back when you lose the ball on final third instead of staying up and trying to win it back unless you play Geggenpress.They have to find a better balance in this aspect as it's not realistic for them to turn and run back immediately in such a spastic way nor to stay up front always and not having their mind at all on the defensive part.I don't think that these things can be fixed so easily as it sounds.There are 22 people on the pitch and in this generation of games i think we're not still at a point where we can expect from each of them to behave super realistic.I think it's normal for this time to see in the game some general patterns and scripts in terms of AI.But it surely can improve.I just don't think that it can improve in huge revolutianary steps yet.I played a couple of newly created ML games with the new add on. I agree with Matt that collisions seems better, also Superstar truly feels generally a lot less frustrating but there is still space for some big bullshit so I really don't know.
I have no idea if this is a placebo as Konami, like already pointed out, is notorious for not giving proper patch notes, so we are in the land of the "impressions" as always. Even if the above improvements are true, I don't think it can turn around this title for the unsatisfied people anyway. The incredibly terrible spacing is still there in all it's glory, as the defenders running backwards from the forwards, just to name two big problems that despite months they still didn't addressed.
Uhm? Where does this come from? I'm italian and I swear to you it's the first time I hear about it. As far as I know italian fans don't particularly care for backheels or spectacular tricks in general.. not more than the normal by the way..
(that said I'm personally not particularly bored by backheels, I'm annoyed there isn't more variety in trajectories and errors in the pass itself, if only we had the latter I wouldn't mind the backheels)
Dennis_87
Physics n' Animations Fan
- 27 September 2017
Pes 15 had very arcady movement and chopped fake animations.I don't get it how someone can find it better that Pes 18 unless he's an arcade fast gameplay lover.Pes 14 instead was great and revolutianary for it's time.When 15 came out and i saw it i couldn't believe what they had done and ruined all Pes 14 sim gameplay elements.I ended up playing Fifa 15 that year.Pes 15 is still a fantastic game,even if we’re the only ones thinking so
Had a tough time liking it until I started paying attention to marking etc,but it’s a good game when set up right,and for me on Xbox one,the last fully licensed Serie A,which makes it a dream compared to 16/17/18
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Just like every other game it became better with patches
And who are you to define what’s arcadey or not?
14 was the “no rain” game right?
Kinda wrecked it for me and I passed on it,felt unrealistic and very arcade like to play without it...
But hey I’m a fast arcade gameplay lover,so I don’t know what I’m saying
Dennis_87
Physics n' Animations Fan
- 27 September 2017
You may be a fast arcade gameplay lover or not,that doesn't mean that you don't know what you're saying.Everyone has his preferences.And i just said my opinion,it doesn't mean that my opinion is the global holy truth or something.
Also i don't think that a game can be called arcady for the fact that it has rain or not.The movement and animations is what you first look to call a game arcady or not but anyway.
Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
No, it's not realistic AT ALL for a defender to actually MARK a forward only to let him calmly turn around and going backwards once he has the ball. This doesn't happen when the defending team suddenly lose the ball, it happens every single time a midfielder pass the ball to a striker.
And for the sake of dialogue, don't pretend that asking for teams that actually cover the field properly,or at least decently, is the same as asking for some revolutionary, incredible super AI because it is not, is something they nailed in the past and if they aren't now it's just for lazyness or negligence.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Yeah,your opinion isn’t the global holy truth,neither is mine
And nobody was claiming 15 to be a better game than 18 either.
But t you know how this works,people tend to praise older games more than the current ones.
We had a long discussion around Pes 13 here before,and people claiming it to be the the holy grail.and when it came out,it was a great game,played it a few months ago and it’s horrible outdated.
Maybe I should give 14 a better and more fair look,problem is it came out when switched from 360 to XB1,and it’s not available for me.
I think we all have preferences on what’s our favourites,maybe they represented something when playing and therefore means more to certain people than others.
All new editions gets slaughtered in here,same with 17 when that came out,then a few of us stuck with it,and updates made it better and better,that’s what I felt with 15;played it more now than when it came out.
Same thing happens over at FIFA,prefer 17 over 18;and in my eyes,even though presentation has become better and better,still believe 14/15/16/17 being better than current.
But then again,that’s me
Nah, I don't think I am. Or, at least, I am (loved Virtua Striker 2002 on the GameCube) but that kind of gameplay is definitely not what I look for in PES.
Despite being pixelated to death, thr Xbox One version of PES 2015 played at -2 speed still is a great footballing experience to me.
I don't hide that some things that were great in PES 2014 (like shielding the ball with the right stick) are missing from PES 2015, but all in all I still find it better than 2014 overall (and yes, PES 2014 was hardly playable at release to the extent that I refused to buy it, eventually it got better with patches and I bought it once the season was over).
My main gripe with PES 2015 is that Superstar level is insanely boring: not because it's easy, but because the CPU always uses the same low controlled shot on the far post from right inside the box (this is a thing I see more in the PC version of the game than I see in the Xbox One version to be honest though).
But hey, Top Player (I believe it's called so, the level just below Superstar anyway) is pretty entertaining and definitely good. Despite everyone saying that all the shots are rockets, I also managed to score from some sweetly dipping volleys and yes, it was a hell of a satisfaction.
My favourite FIFA ever is still FIFA 12, go figure.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Ha ha,didn’t touch FIFA before 14 actuallyMy favourite FIFA ever is still FIFA 12, go figure.
Might get some older games on my PS3 (Pes 14 being one of them) but they’re getting harder to find.
My Pes 15 got broken last year,found a copy for €4,now that I search for it it’s getting tough to find.
Haven’t really played 18 in ages,just the odd game,but will get some gaming in today,see if it feels better now
Dennis_87
Physics n' Animations Fan
- 27 September 2017
So some are complaining because defenders leave lots of space behind and don't cover properly and some are complaining that they don't mark high properly and run backwards to cover.So what's the issue afterall?Because if the first is happening then the second can't be happening and vice-versa.I don't know about you but in the real games i see when great dribblers like Hazard or Messi takes the ball even from the middle of the pitch then the defenders who's near to them almost always try to go backwards until some point and then they try to mark them or tackle them or something and with this strategy they also buying time for their teammates to come back and help.Rarely i'll see them not doing this and try to challenge the ball higher on the pitch because they know that they'll probably get dribbled or make a foul and maybe risk a yellow or even a red card if the player would be after in a scoring situation and they were the last man.In many games that i play i even have players pressing me in all the pitch and don't let me even breath to the point where it becomes unrealistic because of the constantly marking and pressing so i don't know where you find all this crazy space that you say.Also i remember some time ago on your posts you were saying that you find difference amongst good and average teams when you play against them and now you say that it doesn't matter and they all play the same.Well i still find difference between them and i think it's not the same playing against Spal and PSG.
Chuny
-
- 11 December 2007
Yesterday I came to a realization: Not Konami or EA are or were ever unaware of how flawed their games are.
We are only fooling ourselves if we think Adam is choosing not to hear us, or if he thinks everything's alright with PES.
We are kidding ourselves if we think they don't test and re-test and re-re-test the game every day as they are working on it.
They know exactly what we're going to complain about months before they release their product and they know what they need to say.
Do you think the developers of FIFA don't realize how fast FIFA is? How quick the ball goes from one player to another, or from one side of the pitch to the furthest?. You don't think they watch football AS they work on the game enough to say "hey, this is like football but times 2x"? They decide this stuff for a reason.
They probably test hundreds of builds: Very slow ones, slow, normal, etc. And they probably get bored playing those, so they say "the masses aren't going to like the game this way. We need to make it more rushy to make it exciting".
Let's face it, 60% of the people wouldn't enjoy the complexity and 'boringness' (is that even a word?) of a true football simulator.
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Dennis_87
Physics n' Animations Fan
- 27 September 2017
Sadly true.
A solution would be if they could bring two versions or two exe or something for the game.One arcady and one sim.This way we would all be happy and everyone would play what he likes more and they would had even higher sales probably.But i don't know if that's possible or maybe it is but they're just too lazy to consider bringing these solutions as they have major profits even with the current situation.The fact is that the sim audience always gets overlooked.
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Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
Not sure who says they leave a lot of space "behind", or maybe you aren't explaining properly what you mean. The main problem with the way the cpu is putting players on the field is that they essentially compress backwards whenever you attack, making the game an enormous attack vs defence. @Matt10 did a lot of detailed videos and posts about this issue, go see them if you haven't.
In real life, at you never see a defender marking a forward only to let him turn around for free. In real life the midfield isn't also the joke of Pes 2018. And, for final, picking up Hazard and Messi (aka the 1% of players) to make a general point on how defenders behave doesn't make sense to me.
Well I was mainly playing top player, so it mitigated the effect, otherwise the more you play the more you realize the bullshit the cpu was at superstar and legend (a least pre patch). There is virtually no variety in the way CPU plays.
p.s. have some respect for your interlocutor as I do and format your posts, please. This should be a rule honestly, wall of texts like the ones you are doing hurt the eyes.
Dennis_87
Physics n' Animations Fan
- 27 September 2017
Well i have seen many posts and comments here and over the internet of people complaining that their defenders don't react correct behind against cpu long balls and leave huge spaces so the cpu strikers run and go first to the ball.In fact it's one of the big issues many people wanted from Konami to address with their patches along with cursor change etc.
I'm surprised that you say that you hear this for the first time and i think i'm explaining it good,it's not something difficult to understand.Now after the patch i think this issue improved and defenders are more aware in that aspect.
About Messi and Hazard it was just an example.You can put any fast enough player you want in that sentence and my point is the same.So it's not only 1% of players.Also most of the times i don't see defenders let me turn around for free as you say but instead marking and pressing me like maniacs and the cpu in general chasing me in all the pitch which honestly also looks bad and unrealistic sometimes because it looks like they're constantly Geggenpressing.All of these on Superstar of course.
Listen,i'm not here to play Konami's advocate.I'm aware that the game in general has issues in some aspects and they must improve it and i never said that it's perfect or near perfect.But for me,i repeat for me,when i consider the whole package that it delivers,the gameplay,the feel of weight of players and ball(which feels even more great and realistic because i play on -1 speed),the superb fluidity,the animations,the graphics,the player models and faces,the lighting etc.,all of these combined,makes it the best football game that has ever released until now for me.And i repeat it for the 100th time.I don't find it perfect and i'm waiting from them to improve it furthermore.
You're right about the wall texts.I'll try to write more correct.
Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
W/E, it's useless to keep repeating the same points. Agree to disagree.
Thanks for the formatting, appreciate it.
Thanks for the formatting, appreciate it.
ZeRoberta
Premier League
- 30 September 2009
EA or Konami will never bring out a perfect Football Game like we want to have. When they bring out a perfect Football Game nobody wants to buy the Game that would come out the next Year. And think about the Updates of Squads and Players and all the Stuff they give you with their DLCs and Updates. The only Thing they wanted you is to stay on status Quo.
I personally think that EA and Konami could do much better but they will not. Selling every Year an Update generates so much Money. So it's foolish for them to make a Game that is State of the Art...
I personally think that EA and Konami could do much better but they will not. Selling every Year an Update generates so much Money. So it's foolish for them to make a Game that is State of the Art...
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
I'm glad I spend more time playing the game than reading posts in here. Talk about depressing lol. thankfully, the updates didn't overwrite my kits so I can continue playing my league campaign and maybe start a Master league soon. For what it's worth, I think the keepers are finally really good after years of complaining.
miguelfcp
Premier League
- 27 June 2009
We're all passionately discussing if the gameplay should be more simulation-based or arcade-based, whether this player should be able to do this or that with the ball, or whether there are giant gaps in the midfield or not...that's all great but the problem is, even if Konami somehow "pulls a PES5" in the following years and delivers a realistic, mind-blowing-ahead-of-its-time simulation - wouldn't bet on it!....- the game would still...be poor.
The game is poor. Besides Konami's version of Ultimate Team, what else is there? Every game mode is dead in the water and purposedly so to make people get on with myClub. In the past, Konami got away with the lack of licenses and few innovations off-the-pitch because of its great gameplay, but as soon as the quality of the gameplay decreased, people began tolerating less of their obvious mistakes and just overall laziness on their behalf. The thing is, this is not 2005 anymore and expectations for any game, sports or not, are much higher than ever considering the kind of hardware you get to work with now.
The game is poor. Besides Konami's version of Ultimate Team, what else is there? Every game mode is dead in the water and purposedly so to make people get on with myClub. In the past, Konami got away with the lack of licenses and few innovations off-the-pitch because of its great gameplay, but as soon as the quality of the gameplay decreased, people began tolerating less of their obvious mistakes and just overall laziness on their behalf. The thing is, this is not 2005 anymore and expectations for any game, sports or not, are much higher than ever considering the kind of hardware you get to work with now.
sir_mamont
Conference
- 16 September 2016
Guys, how to score in ONE on ONE situations? Why the f*ck my players always shoot in the middle, so the Goalkeeper can save?! Can someone explain me how to easily score if you are one on one with goalkeeper?? Watch the short video, it happens almost always. This makes me cry.
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chiefrocka4real
Champions League
Had a few games at the weekend after a long break from all football games. I hadn't played FIFA really this year but bought it this weekend after seeing it on sale on PSN and craving Old Trafford, licenses etc. After a fair number of games on FIFA it actually re-enforced my (positive) opinion on this year's PES.
Firstly, the game is FAR from perfect. Too end to end (same on FIFA for me) ball physics are underwhelming and shooting far too samey regardless of player (amongst other things) but on the whole I think this year's PES is very strong.
I've started playing 20min games with 0 pass assistance and have found this totally opens up the game. I'm getting a good amount of fouls and, somewhat oddly, since moving to 20min games i really notice the auto shielding. Maybe it's because i build up a lot slower and don't rush.
The patterns of play etc are still there of course but I find PES recreates the pace and flow of football far far better than FIFA this year.
Backheels also annoy me but it's something I'm able to overlook. I LOVE the dribbling and the way you can wrong foot players with the right move or feather the left stick and get a little drop of the shoulder. Mixed with 0 assist passing, i'm able to recreate some real wow moments which are still very realistic. If only the shooting was more satisfying
Guess I need to try that 20 mins setting as well. Mine is on 12 mins.
Overall I´m okay with the game. Once in a while I keep continuing my ML, whenever I feel like to.
Haven´t played this game for weeks, since my boys convinced me to play Rainbow Six with them.
Maybe that´s a key for not getting too frustrated with the game than playing it every day.
I can live with the backheels, I can live with the lack of called fouls (even from time to time that really makes me mad), I can live with the unrealistic transactions in ML (signed, Mbappe to Derby County 2nd division team, Ballack, Michael Owen, easily got Dybala on loan and so on and so on...), actually with a lot of flaws of the game because of one thing:
It represents football very well and I still have many WOW moments when I play.
The only thing that really pisses me off is that unbalanced team strength. I don´t have any problem to beat Barca or Bayern in the champions league but small teams in the league bash me like there´s no tomorrow in matches that feel like that I´m not granted to win those.
That was present in former PES releases as well...but this year it feels very strong.
It´s not that I wanna win EVERY game....hell no. Even CPU scores beauiful goals from time to time.
But it´s mostly in such stupid situations which feel like scripting is way too obvious.