PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Dennis_87 said:
That's what i also said that accuracy was the thing that was changed between players in the past,not the passing animations like you said.They were always the same for all players.In fact this year i see some passing animations that in previous years you wouldn't see them.There's no point in repeating the same things,sure stat replication on the pitch must improve but it's not that it doesn't matter at all.I find difference on the pitch between very good and average players.Most of you don't even play the game anymore but somehow you're some kind of ''experts'' on it.Ok...
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I've been working on improving PES since I was 19. I'm 32 now. Digging deep into the stats/ratings is my home, and each year I try my best to determine if stats/ratings is the answer to some of the underlying issues. PES 16 thru PES 18, so far, have allowed me to conclude that player stats/ratings matter much less than they have previously, and can't necessarily be the gateway to fixing the issues - not without tearing away the multiple priorities such as preset tactics and attack/defense levels, etc. Editing stats was easier to use in order to "fix" some areas of PES in the older. For example PES 14's defender logic to follow an attacker all the way into the box regardless of line height (PES 18 has a lot of this, but not as obvious), and PES 13's easy through-passes, then before that PES 12's lack of covering from the outside midfield...the list goes on.

Regarding playing PES...it's tough. I want to play, but I can't really complete a whole match because the issues are too consistent, and the "beauty" is too inconsistent. The logic is baffling to me in many areas, and I have theories on why, but it doesn't mean I've just said "Hey, here's my theory, and that's that"...no, I've been working on improving PES since I was 19, lol. I just spent the last 3 hours dissecting this new update and determining if there is a placebo to this gameplay people are seeing.

Overall, the only difference I see is the collision detection has improved. It's less soft, and the referee acknowledges it once in a while. The question is, is the change based on the datapack update (squads/roster) or did we get an updated code overall? We'll never know because KONAMI never tell us.
 
Matt i think it' an updated code overall. The cpu is less perfect more errors on passes and shoots, more midfield game. It seems that cpu is less perfect but more organized in attack and defense. The flow seems slower a new ball phisics (heavy ball). I have red somewhere on twitter (sorry but I don' remember where) that Matsuda cooperates in the realization of this new 1.04 patch. Maybe it's all placebo (or maybe not) but now I like how cpu plays above all on superstar where I see less script and unreal player's game.
 
incas36 said:
Matt i think it' an updated code overall. The cpu is less perfect more errors on passes and shoots, more midfield game. It seems that cpu is less perfect but more organized in attack and defense. The flow seems slower a new ball phisics (heavy ball). I have red somewhere on twitter (sorry but I don' remember where) that Matsuda cooperates in the realization of this new 1.04 patch. Maybe it's all placebo (or maybe not) but now I like how cpu plays above all on superstar where I see less script and unreal player's game.
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Is this with the default dt18 inca? I might give it another try after all...
 
incas36 said:
Matt i think it' an updated code overall. The cpu is less perfect more errors on passes and shoots, more midfield game. It seems that cpu is less perfect but more organized in attack and defense. The flow seems slower a new ball phisics (heavy ball). I have red somewhere on twitter (sorry but I don' remember where) that Matsuda cooperates in the realization of this new 1.04 patch. Maybe it's all placebo (or maybe not) but now I like how cpu plays above all on superstar where I see less script and unreal player's game.
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To me it's all placebo.

I don't see improvements whatsoever and i don't know how can people say that Masuda is back developing this patch, like he didn't work on Pes 2018 before. He was always there, even when Pes 2018 released, look at the credits. He is assistant producer.
 
papinho81 said:
Is this with the default dt18 inca? I might give it another try after all...
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Yes with default.If you have parham or anything delete it and put back the default.Game plays surely better with this new patch.A little bit more smooth and fluid movement and better pass physics,heavier ball and in general feels more balanced.
 
Seems a new game. Less frustrating and cinic cpu. All SEEMS easier BUT a more organized cpu make the game more real. No more forced death through long ball with a sure goal by cpu or at least much more less of them. A new collision routine and a more efficient contrast with X. A more random rebounds of ball after collision (not always in cpu favour). I repeat, maybe it' only placebo but I don't think so.
 
Matt10 said:
I've been working on improving PES since I was 19. I'm 32 now. Digging deep into the stats/ratings is my home, and each year I try my best to determine if stats/ratings is the answer to some of the underlying issues. PES 16 thru PES 18, so far, have allowed me to conclude that player stats/ratings matter much less than they have previously, and can't necessarily be the gateway to fixing the issues - not without tearing away the multiple priorities such as preset tactics and attack/defense levels, etc. Editing stats was easier to use in order to "fix" some areas of PES in the older. For example PES 14's defender logic to follow an attacker all the way into the box regardless of line height (PES 18 has a lot of this, but not as obvious), and PES 13's easy through-passes, then before that PES 12's lack of covering from the outside midfield...the list goes on.

Regarding playing PES...it's tough. I want to play, but I can't really complete a whole match because the issues are too consistent, and the "beauty" is too inconsistent. The logic is baffling to me in many areas, and I have theories on why, but it doesn't mean I've just said "Hey, here's my theory, and that's that"...no, I've been working on improving PES since I was 19, lol. I just spent the last 3 hours dissecting this new update and determining if there is a placebo to this gameplay people are seeing.

Overall, the only difference I see is the collision detection has improved. It's less soft, and the referee acknowledges it once in a while. The question is, is the change based on the datapack update (squads/roster) or did we get an updated code overall? We'll never know because KONAMI never tell us.
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It's an updated code for sure.How can squads/rosters change anything lol?I see difference in passes,ball feels heavier and if you notice the ball lifts from the ground more when you pass and looks more realistic and don't stay glued to the pitch like pre patch.Also movement feels a bit smoother and gameplay more balanced in general.

I know your work and i respect it.I have used your sliders for Fifa and especially for 16 the last update you did was great and played very good.I just hope EA would have stayed in that gameplay and improve it furthermore...

It's just that somehow i don't like to see everyone bashing the game with all it's negatives and no one saying something positive about it,because it also has many positives for me.But i agree that it also has many problems that must be resolved and most of the issues that are discussed here are true and i also see them,i'm not blind.But i still like the game.In the end of the day we all want the same thing,Pes to progress and to be as realistic as possible in every aspect.
 
@Ameppe i thin this game must be played in a different way respec older pes games:
1 Less, much more less, use of R1 (cpu takes you in counter time and fly away);
1 GREAT use of R2 for dribbling and move in less spaces;
3 stop your player, look the pitch and where are your players how your players move before, to make an efficient pass;
4 when you have the ball not allways run alone to the goal, stop, study the position of your squad and if cpu attack you use protection of the ball or try evading with dribble.
Didn' you see, at least, a better cursor?
 
Keith Houchen said:
.......

Which means that something else is coming on 15th Feb:

"The game feels different, not something I can put my finger on, it just does. The ball is heavier/lighter and player turns are faster/slower, and is it me or are the pitches definitely greener/browner? Shooting has more/less weight to it too! And guess what, in my first match I got FOUR fouls. Only one game of course, but I think it's safe to say this Data Pack has definitely changed the game again. "
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Your prediction has come true.
 
Maybe a bit better on cursor switch, but it's so unnoticeable that i can't say for sure. But playing against CPU at Top player level in Master League is the same frustrating experience as before because of low rated teams playing with ultra fast passing and being far too precise compared to the stats of the players.
 
Dennis_87 said:
It's an updated code for sure.How can squads/rosters change anything lol?I see difference in passes,ball feels heavier and if you notice the ball lifts from the ground more when you pass and looks more realistic and don't stay glued to the pitch like pre patch.Also movement feels a bit smoother and gameplay more balanced in general.

I know your work and i respect it.I have used your sliders for Fifa and especially for 16 the last update you did was great and played very good.I just hope EA would have stayed in that gameplay and improve it furthermore...

It's just that somehow i don't like to see everyone bashing the game with all it's negatives and no one saying something positive about it,because it also has many positives for me.But i agree that it also has many problems that must be resolved and most of the issues that are discussed here are true and i also see them,i'm not blind.But i still like the game.In the end of the day we all want the same thing,Pes to progress and to be as realistic as possible in every aspect.
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I think the bashing is just what you get to see with a mix of feedback. You just have to filter out who you think is bashing and what is seemingly, to you, as constructive criticism. I'd say Evo is good place for about 90% constructive criticism. However, there will be that day where we just need to let it out, and Evo is a good place for that too. If you see PES/Adam/Asim social media from PES 2018, a lot had to walk on eggshells, and follow the format of... "[item 2,3,4] are good, but [item 5] is not. Here's why:"; at some point it becomes robotic and I think the message can be lost.

Regarding updated code, there isn't any notes of it, and no notes of pes stats affecting either. Squad/rosters can definitely change if their database manager modifies the effectiveness of attributes, such as a 40 no longer playing like a 40 and plays more like a true 20 or 10. They may mask that 20 as a 40 so it doesn't affect the OVR value. KONAMI are a bit mysterious with their notes, and that is where I would like them to be more like EA so they can provide a legitimate changelog so it's not placebo vs reality.
 
So what is this patch update ? 1.04 ?

I have not been playing PES latelty so I have no idea what is the current update.

Edit: oh I see it. Dowloading it. Lets see..
 
I tried the new patch. Why not?
I havent touched the game for months as i barely have time for gaming and i would rather jump on rocket league with friends nowdays on a rainy sunday afternoon.

1. Visuals
So no doubt about it that this is still the best looking footy game ever created. The animations are spot on, the ligthing, the color palette is perfect and the replays are gorgeous. Not to mention the players both face and player model wise. I read somewhere this patch upgraded the graphics, well im unsure about it but the game looks dope.

2. Gameplay
As there are issues with the hectic, counter attacking oriented gameplay with less midfield battles and with rather an easy to reach the final 3rd aspect, the game still flows like real life footy. And recently i tried older PES games from ISS2 to PES5 and the game havent flowd this perfectly ever. Including the player movements and the ball speed. Picking up Italy vs Argentina and instantly i felt that Insigne is the trickster of the team and Bellotti is the powerhouse. You can utilize players by their physical attribute very well. Dribbling is the best thing ever.

So the hectic game wouldnt even be a problem but here comes the first major issue. Its really easy to break down teams and to have a shot on target. At least you really easy can get to the final 3rd and altough its really hard to score becasue A, the keepers are superb (havent mentioned best keepers ever created!) B, theres always a feet in the way of your shot or a last time tackle, theres no joy in attacking and breaking down any team. Which is sad because you could do such a wonderful build ups in this game. You can see all of them as the cpu varies its attack very cleverly with build ups, crosses or lunching long shots at you.

But most of your attacks end up shooting from just outside the box in desperation as why not if any of your players can hit perfect hard shots from any distance and any angle. As there are no variation of the shot error almost and there are no effects of the surrounding elements on the shooting players. You can shoot perfectly even when 3 defenders are on you, altough all the PS2 PES games had that thing that only (!) if the angle is wrong you will struggle with your shot even with Ronaldo (R9) but still that guy was a guaranteed scorer at one on ones ... well only if you didnt mess up something badly.
Shooting is a very weird thing for PES2018 as attacking headers seem to be perfect and are having a wide range of variety! So i rather ended up winning my games hitting (hard) shots at the keeper to get a good rebound goal. Wasnt really satisfying. But having a header goal it was.
Bit of a controversy.

As for fouls you will see 3 fouls at most per games if only you are not playing a derby where the cpu commits more sliding tackles from behind. Too bad since i saw two beautiful fouls too. One where the runaway players one leg was pulled back simply just a tiny but, putting him off his balance yet it was awarded by a free kick. It was a beautiful animation. Another was where Bellotti and Rojo went for the same high ball to head it but both missed the header and the two bodies collided in the air with Bellotti smashing Rojo in the ground. Both were amazing during replays.

As for the tactics and players positioning yes i still do think older games got it far more better this aspect with the player instructions included. No wonder FIFA stole that from PES and still use it today. But still teams much rather play like real teams in PES 2018 than in ie. PES4. But the best example would be FIFA 17 in this regard as there all the tactic sliders work flawlessly. That game is the only one where i could replicate real life tactics.

As a summary PES 2018 i still think is a revolutionary game graphic and presentations wise, and some gameplay elements such as keepers and dribbling, player physique was never done so perfectly ...but what all this worth if you cant enjoy ultimately the most important thing in football, scoring?



And thats a big downside for me. Its just as big as very bad keepers or very bad servers (sorry for no online talk, im not into it).

7/10 if you dont mind the scoring part of football.
 
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slamsoze said:
The years ,not dozen btw, was not my jail card. Trolls just have a lifespan of some months.Im not that type of person.
If you want to explain more about "Adam", albeit i'm against personal references and Adam is a name not a "bad word", there are some people since PES 2008 that act as "PR" or "weekend soldiers " that come every year and quoting "PES this years is the best of the best" without any standard facts or points, people who will not play PES next year or the year after next.
For justice sake Master League COM AI is the more broken then ever this year in superstar, off-line modes are on the dark side of the moon, despite playing an Exhibition match in superstar is really good, but MasterLeague has the RPG factors that makes you play again and again.
Finally i am over since the begging, it was nothing personal with anyone, it was just a sarcasm quote.(now that i explained, it is not a sarcasm anymore). Thats all and i rest my case.Have a nice PES day.
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What a silly reaction.
If you are against personal references, why use them?
If you don't like ML on superstar, then play it on a lower level (but yes, it is broken).

One of the reasons why Konami don't listen to people with a negative opinion are posts like yours. Post with personal references...

Among the thousands of post with drivel, there are soms gems with people who really try to make their point, but they are like a needle in a haystack of shit opinions. IMO that conduct is as bad as the people who only talk about PES in extremely positive words...
 
Dennis_87 said:
Well i have...I remember a Chelsea game about a month ago against Bournemouth away i think where they scored after two consecutive backheels.
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Just to make a quick point. This is the kind of response that really frustrates me as someone who buys the game every year and therefore supports it, but has valid criticisms ("valid" as in, the community has reported it en masse).

What you're saying there is "I saw it happen in real-life once, so what's the problem". The problem is that in PES, it literally happens every game - and every team does it.

When someone like @Matt10 uploads a video of the AI's basic errors in defence, someone will say "that sometimes happens in real life". When someone talks about the backheels, you see a response like "I saw that happen a while ago".

But I've never played a match where the AI hasn't hit super-accurate backheels - nor have I played a game where the attack/defence levels haven't resulted in basic mistakes and really weird movement (like this).

If any of this stuff happened sometimes, or it was restricted to a certain level or type of team, then it'd all be part of the variety.

But that doesn't mean you can't enjoy the game, and it doesn't even mean it's a bad game - there's plenty that's worth playing for and everyone has an opinion, of course. I just feel like some of the discussion is in two different languages sometimes, which prevents a deeper discussion and things then go downhill.
 
That's right. The fact that something happens from time to time (or has happened once back in the day) doesn't mean it should be happening on a regular basis in the game.
I mean, I remember lots of people moaning about the bad goalkeepers in the past years (and I've seen some hideous things at the release of PES 2012 and PES 2014) but we shouldn't have been complaining... Keepers not saving a single shot should've been alright because Taibi made a blooper once while playing with Manchester United (and don't pretend you forgot that, I KNOW you haven't), am I right?

I'm not bashing the game, mind you, I really believe it's a good game after all. Yet, it's pretty evident that it isn't perfect.
The lofted through balls to the wingers that happened a lot at release have been toned down a little fortunately, but I also think that we see too many perfect backheels, often with the ball passed to a player that the ball carrier should never be able to see in real life.
 
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Ha the backheels are back (this pun was not intended at all, but it's a very good one).
I'm the first to concede that there are too many backheels. But (and i already wrote this in this thread, but why can't i repete myself?) it seems this is cultural. A couple weeks ago (precisely after the backheel festival that was the Chelsea match against Brighton. Chelsea's best match, the one with the fantastic Michy Batschuayi, the player most Belgian football fans prefer to Lukaku) was talked about in two different podcasts (Richardson an Marcotti). Both presenters love Italian football and both stated that English people don't like backheels. In a country where people are ecstatic for a corner and rave about "tackles" (minor crimes in other countries) this is normal.

French, Italian, Spanish and (even more) South American football fans love backheels and i must say i love them too...i'm well aware that there are too much in PES, but i frankly love them...after all it is supposed to be the beautiful game...I frankly think that lots of people are going way too far in their call for a simulation...there is a valid alternative for those freaks: play football, you know in the park and with a real ball and jumpers for posts (ouch, that is not real enough).

I'm sorry Chris, i'm well aware that is a very, very sarcastic post and don't take it personal (even if it is a reaction to your post, i'm sorry for that, i do love your commitment and share some of your criticisms, you don't deserve this sarcasm), but there are much worse issues than the backheels in the game...the lack of fouls and penalties for example...that is a real shame!

One day i'll make it up to you, Chris...(and the two last paragraphs are way more serious than the previous ones).

PS: and this post isn't directed towards ale either...
 
@gerd, I appreciate that's a sarcastic post, but try to understand my personal frustration at how genuine issues are so easily shrugged off (and therefore Konami never get around to giving a shit about it).

My point applies equally to the lack of fouls, which you think is "more serious"; you don't have to look far to find posts like "I watched a game last night where the referee barely stopped the game", or "if there were fouls the game would suffer" (but this is supposed to be a football game), or - even worse - "well I get plenty, you must be playing the game wrong".

I feel like there are facts about the game - whether you call them an "issue" or not is up to the person, but things like a lack of fouls, an abundance of backheels, shots being cannonballs 99% of the time - that are dismissed as fiction because someone saw a game on TV last night and "all the shots were cannonballs".

To the people who love the game, I'd say - don't you think changes to this stuff would make it better? To the people who don't notice it (or care), I'd say - in that case, surely you wouldn't notice changes to it, then!
 
gerd said:
What a silly reaction....
One of the reasons why Konami don't listen to people with a negative opinion are posts like yours. Post with personal references...
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I accept this as complete nihilism against me. Furthermore i replied to a a member in a forum, i didn't give a report feedback to KONAMI so whatever i was saying was irrelevant to any feedback , and for sure i am not responsible why a multinational company do not listen to people.
On your second point i'm playing on lower level now, but i was in the gap between Top and SuperStar, somehow winning most matches 3-1,3-2 hardly but winning in the end on TopPLAYER and losing unrealistically most matches in Superstar. I also dropped back to PES 2017 as i found it more interesting for the complete feeling it gives me in ML, 2017 is scripted too but not in such a level as 2018.

As for your last fact about me my "post with drivel" my posts this year 99% include:
Gameplay wise: The AI cheating (scripted), CPU unrealistic play-style of low level teams in Tp and SS,the absence of collision systems, the fast-rushed gameplay, the bad defense awareness,the one dimension shoots, lack of fouls and offsides the lat two years.
ML: The bad implemented challenge mode and the inaccurate negotiations system
EDITING issues(almost every year): The duplicate players that are face-locked for edit this year like Gyan A., Paulinho, Japan national team players in AFC,the lack of more editable leagues and teams especially in Europe and Latin America, the lack of hairstyles and base preset faces etc, etc,etc,etc.

So which of these points of mine is shite for you and you offend me like this, without having ever read any of my facts and deciding to stick in one and only post?

P.S.: I will never judge somebody if he is permitted to post his opinion or not even if i disagree 1000%. Thats what are you doing by blaming me personally you are UNDEMOCRATICALLY taking me out of the point which is criticism for PES. Maybe the truth is in the opposite side of the coin and people like you are responsible for defaming others and make them not criticise the game's bad points.

P.S 2: The first step to disagree with someone with respect is to read or listen first to his opinion, something you have clearly skipped or missed.

P.S3: KONAMI and every company IMHO takes serius feedback only from "celebrity" reviewers and members and not from a "common man" like me
 
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Chris Davies said:
Just to make a quick point. This is the kind of response that really frustrates me as someone who buys the game every year and therefore supports it, but has valid criticisms ("valid" as in, the community has reported it en masse).

What you're saying there is "I saw it happen in real-life once, so what's the problem". The problem is that in PES, it literally happens every game - and every team does it.

When someone like @Matt10 uploads a video of the AI's basic errors in defence, someone will say "that sometimes happens in real life". When someone talks about the backheels, you see a response like "I saw that happen a while ago".

I've never played a match where the AI hasn't hit super-accurate backheels - nor have I played a game where the attack/defence levels haven't resulted in basic mistakes and really weird movement (like this).

If any of this stuff happened sometimes, or it was restricted to a certain level or type of team, then it'd all be part of the variety.

I feel like some of the discussion is in two different languages sometimes, which prevents a deeper discussion and things then go downhill quickly.
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I agree that these things happen more often than they should in the game.I also dislike the arcade elements that it still has and wish that they would disappear.My example about the Chelsea game was because someone said that he never seen two consecutive backheels in a real match.Well obviously it happens in real life also sometimes,not once,sometimes.In my game i don't see these things happening in EVERY match,to a frustrating point at least.I don't know maybe because i play on -1 speed and the gameplay is slower and more calm.On 0 it's too hectic and there surely when these things happen they'll look more ridiculous.About the gif you put yeah it looks very weird and bad but i haven't seen this happening so obvious in my games.I don't think that it's fair to say that this happen in every game at least in this laughable way.I've said many times that the game has many things that bother me also and sometimes i even stop playing it for some time.But it also has many very good things for me like it's sense of player and ball weight,it's fluidity,it's graphics,it's lighting,it's animations and many other things.I can't overlook all these just because i've seen three more backheels in a game,which i say again i wish they would be less or even disappear from the game.And it's not that we have five football games to choose from.It's even this or Fifa and i personally prefer Pes for it's gameplay in general.It's also what priorities someone has when he wants to play.Someone may still play Pes 5 or 6 for any reason he thinks and don't give a damn about faces,graphics,boots,balls and all of that and someone else may find these things important.I personally find these things a big part of the total experience together with the modern fluidity,improved animations,feel of weight etc and i wouldn't leave all these things to play an old game just to have less backheels or something.I don't even keep players with generic faces in my ML and i always sell them to buy original players with real faces because it ruins the visual part for me.Everyone makes his choice considering which package ''fills'' him more in general cus unfortunately we can't have a super perfect game in all aspects at least for now.And maybe we'll never have it so we must enjoy the next best thing.Well for me the next best thing as a package until now is Pes 2018.
 
I played a couple of newly created ML games with the new add on. I agree with Matt that collisions seems better, also Superstar truly feels generally a lot less frustrating but there is still space for some big bullshit so I really don't know.

I have no idea if this is a placebo as Konami, like already pointed out, is notorious for not giving proper patch notes, so we are in the land of the "impressions" as always. Even if the above improvements are true, I don't think it can turn around this title for the unsatisfied people anyway. The incredibly terrible spacing is still there in all it's glory, as the defenders running backwards from the forwards, just to name two big problems that despite months they still didn't addressed.

gerd said:
French, Italian, Spanish and (even more) South American football fans love backheels
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Uhm? Where does this come from:D? I'm italian and I swear to you it's the first time I hear about it. As far as I know italian fans don't particularly care for backheels or spectacular tricks in general.. not more than the normal by the way..

(that said I'm personally not particularly bored by backheels, I'm annoyed there isn't more variety in trajectories and errors in the pass itself, if only we had the latter I wouldn't mind the backheels)
 
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Chris Davies said:
@gerd

My point applies equally to the lack of fouls, which you think is "more serious"; you don't have to look far to find posts like "I watched a game last night where the referee barely stopped the game", or "if there were fouls the game would suffer**", or - even worse - "well I get plenty, you must be playing the game wrong".

**Which could well be a valid point - but isn't it supposed to be a football game?
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Don't forget the evergreens:
"But how much fouls do you want in a game anyway?"
"You must search for fouls yourself by plays"
And my favourite, undisputed "They break the flow of the game" (therefore I guess we should get rid of throw ins and goal kicks.. you know.. they break the precious flow too.. maybe by playing a giant version of fifa 98 indoor with the walls around the field it would be safer.. pardon the sarcasm)
 
Superstar seems really less frustrating but still far from enjoyable. I noticed a weird routine in about 7/10 matches ,despite the pass accuracy of CPU is still too high, aprox. ~90%, their total successful attempted pass is always close to my total attempted passed like if i have attempted/total 70/95 they will have something like 97/108. maybe it is a coincidence.
 
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