PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Tech, passing, freedom, 360 control, gk animations, etc...doesn't mean a thing if Ratings/Stats mean nothing. There is no identifiable difference in animation, or physics, from a player with 40 short pass accuracy to a player with 99. There is no gap. You might as well have values range from 89 be the lowest and 99 be the lowest, because that's essentially what it's like.

The formula to create an OVR has long been a priority for the recent versions of PES, and that's why we've lost a lot of what made the older games stand out. It's not about nostalgia or rose-tinted glasses, it's simply about having it one way where ratings/stats mattered, and now they really don't.
 
Dennis_87 said:
About backheels now...Because i see many here mention it all the time...In every real match i see on TV,whether it's two very good teams or average teams,i always see 3-4 backheels if not even more..In a Pes 18 match you'll see 4-5 backheels and not always and all the time like some are saying..So is this one more little backheel such a big deal and people start bashing the game?!..I don't understand some people man...

No offence to anyone...I think we're not here to be ''super polite'' and double check any word we say but to be honest and express our opinions.
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Dunno man, I haven't seen real life game with 2 consecutive backheels in a while, or one where a defenders clears the ball from his box doing a backheel to a team mate. I think that takes away from the realism. FIFA isn't perfect, but I dont think it's "a joke" if you compare it to PES's "realism".

I'm being honest and expressing my opinion. And I do understand if you find it OK, there's nothing wrong with ppl having issues with the game and nothing wrong with ppl not minding about these issues. Some people enjoy, some dont
 
Matt10 said:
Tech, passing, freedom, 360 control, gk animations, etc...doesn't mean a thing if Ratings/Stats mean nothing. There is no identifiable difference in animation, or physics, from a player with 40 short pass accuracy to a player with 99. There is no gap. You might as well have values range from 89 be the lowest and 99 be the lowest, because that's essentially what it's like.

The formula to create an OVR has long been a priority for the recent versions of PES, and that's why we've lost a lot of what made the older games stand out. It's not about nostalgia or rose-tinted glasses, it's simply about having it one way where ratings/stats mattered, and now they really don't.
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Lol what are you talking about man?In which game have you seen the animations or physics of passing being changed accordingly to stats?The only thing that was changed was accuracy but players always were passing with the same animations even if there were good or average players.This thing you say we'll probably have it in 10 years from now and if.I agree that stats representation on the pitch could be better in this game but to say they don't matter at all it's totally not true.You clearly can feel the very good player and the average player.
 
Madmac79 said:
I also liked immensely more Pes 2017 for this reason.. no tainted cpu (surely not to this 2018 extent), more fouls, more physical game, more cpu natural errors.. hence more variety.
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I actually really enjoyed PES 2017 on ps4 for the first time since the ps2 generation I had a good master league I can only think they either made the superstar level on 2018 this overpowered because of Myclub matches vs AI = Less chance of winning coins/points whatever you call them and the cynical part of me thinks they dumbed the AI down to force single players online to look for a better game
 
Dennis_87 said:
Lol what are you talking about man?In which game have you seen the animations or physics of passing being changed accordingly to stats?The only thing that was changed was accuracy but players always were passing with the same animations even if there were good or average players.This thing you say we'll probably have it in 10 years from now and if.I agree that stats representation on the pitch could be better in this game but to say they don't matter at all it's totally not true.You clearly can feel the very good player and the average player.
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Yes, this year in particular, i do feel more individuality in the game (although I play full manual). I haven't felt the same in previous versions. it's subtle but it's there, you can tell players that are more physical, better dribblers , etc.
 
el niche said:
Dunno man, I haven't seen real life game with 2 consecutive backheels in a while, or one where a defenders clears the ball from his box doing a backheel to a team mate. I think that takes away from the realism. FIFA isn't perfect, but I dont think it's "a joke" if you compare it to PES's "realism".

I'm being honest and expressing my opinion. And I do understand if you find it OK, there's nothing wrong with ppl having issues with the game and nothing wrong with ppl not minding about these issues. Some people enjoy, some dont
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Well i have...I remember a Chelsea game about a month ago against Bournemouth away i think where they scored after two consecutive backheels.It was a great team effort and goal.I mean it happens...And i've seen defenders doing it also and even goalkeepers do some dangerous stupid shit and nearly have the ball stolen and concede a goal lol...I don't know why it's such a big deal...Yeah it's not realistic if it's happening all the time but i don't see it all the time like some are saying...I'm also not saying that it's perfect but it's a really good game(i mean gameplaywise,apart from that it has many issues with lack of depth on modes,poor presentation etc.)and i don't understand why it gets so hate for it's gameplay.Fifa is poor in representing the correct feel of weight for the player and the ball.It's all too cartoonish and light.But it has some other good elements that's why i also have it and play it from time to time for a change but in general i prefer Pes 18.For me it's the best ever until now.That doesn't mean that i find it perfect or that it hasn't things that frustrate me sometimes.Like you said there's nothing right or wrong,we're just saying our opinions and everyone has it's own.
 
saintric said:
I actually really enjoyed PES 2017 on ps4 for the first time since the ps2 generation I had a good master league I can only think they either made the superstar level on 2018 this overpowered because of Myclub matches vs AI = Less chance of winning coins/points whatever you call them and the cynical part of me thinks they dumbed the AI down to force single players online to look for a better game
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Superstar on Pes 17 was a joke that's why they changed it.It was very easy and i remember everyone saying to Konami to change it and make it more of a challenge.And now they say that it's very difficult...I guess you just can't please some people...In my opinion it's better and more realistic for it to be very hard than very easy.That's why it's called Superstar...I like it...I have wins,draws,losses and i enjoy the challenge.In 17 you could win easily the league with a mid table team.Now it's nearly impossible like it should be.
 
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Madmac79 said:
There is nothing "realistical" in the superstar and legend of this year. You may like the challenge and that's up to you, but having every team playing the same, overpowered game is like the opposite of realism.
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Still better than being able to win the league with West Brom like you could on 17...And i remember most teams in 17 also playing the same most of the time just that they were more easy to beat.I don't know how people say that 17's teams had better team id.In fact it was worse and i remember cpu teams spamming long balls from their defence all the time.At least now i see that they actually try to play some football.
 
Dennis_87 said:
Still better than being able to win the league with West Brom like you could on 17
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Your personal experience. You are actually the first person I read describing Pes 2017 as uber easy. To me and to many other people it was just a better balanced game.

Dennis_87 said:
At least now i see that they actually try to play some football.
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What I've seen for all these months it's Benevento or Spal playing the exact same as Juventus and Napoli, and this is as far from my conception of football as it can be.

I'm just scratching the surface because there are way bigger problems than the already atrocious copypaste IA, like spacing or lack of fouls. But to each his own I guess.
 
Dennis_87 said:
Superstar on Pes 17 was a joke that's why they changed it.It was very easy and i remember everyone saying to Konami to change it and make it more of a challenge.And now they say that it's very difficult...I guess you just can't please some people...In my opinion it's better and more realistic for it to be very hard than very easy.That's why it's called Superstar...I like it...I have wins,draws,losses and i enjoy the challenge.In 17 you could win easily the league with a mid table team.Now it's nearly impossible like it should be.
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personally I never found 2017 easy on superstar it was just about right for me and I have no problem playing difficult games where I lose and really struggle for wins but 2018 has taken a cheap way of making the game difficult

of course its a video game its going to need to nerf us a bit or AI boost their players to make it competitive but there comes a cross over point where you lose enjoyment because its all too obvious you are being hindered trying to pull off what you have in mind, not by lack of skill on your behalf, but because the AI have stopped you by basically cheating you

this isnt just a PES thing it happens in a lot of games but given where 2017 AI was I expected better in 2018
 
Dennis_87 said:
Well i have...I remember a Chelsea game about a month ago against Bournemouth away i think where they scored after two consecutive backheels.It was a great team effort and goal.I mean it happens...And i've seen defenders doing it also and even goalkeepers do some dangerous stupid shit and nearly have the ball stolen and concede a goal lol...I don't know why it's such a big deal...Yeah it's not realistic if it's happening all the time but i don't see it all the time like some are saying...I'm also not saying that it's perfect but it's a really good game(i mean gameplaywise,apart from that it has many issues with lack of depth on modes,poor presentation etc.)and i don't understand why it gets so hate for it's gameplay.Fifa is poor in representing the correct feel of weight for the player and the ball.It's all too cartoonish and light.But it has some other good elements that's why i also have it and play it from time to time for a change but in general i prefer Pes 18.For me it's the best ever until now.That doesn't mean that i find it perfect or that it hasn't things that frustrate me sometimes.Like you said there's nothing right or wrong,we're just saying our opinions and everyone has it's own.
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We get it, you have no problems with how mediocre the overall game is currently. By now everyone should've realized that our low expectations and not being able to hold Konami accountable for their low efforts got us mediocre and underachieving versions of PES over the last decade. If we keep going on the same track, it's not hard to find out what PES2019 and the following versions will deliver.
 
Dennis_87 said:
Lol what are you talking about man?In which game have you seen the animations or physics of passing being changed accordingly to stats?The only thing that was changed was accuracy but players always were passing with the same animations even if there were good or average players.This thing you say we'll probably have it in 10 years from now and if.I agree that stats representation on the pitch could be better in this game but to say they don't matter at all it's totally not true.You clearly can feel the very good player and the average player.
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The fact that there is no discernible pass rating like there was before is the problem, "man".

Look here:

PES 2018

http://www.pesmaster.com/l-messi/pes-2018/player/7511/

Low pass (combines pass accuracy and speed)

PES 2013

http://www.pesmaster.com/messi/pes-2013/player/7511/

Short Pass Accuracy
Short Pass Speed

That example alone should tell you that the values that should be identifiable and at a high enough gap should stand out, but they don't.

In PES 2013, you drop short pass accuracy to "1" (because 40 wasn't the low then) and literally the regular pass will feel like a through pass with no control. In PES 2018, you drop it to 40, you literally see NO difference, to pass speed or pass accuracy. It meets the intended receiver's feet every single time.

So yeah, that's what I'm on about. Need more proof, I'd be glad to provide it. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about solving problems that are so obvious - and the more you choose to ignore them - the more we take steps backwards.
 
Matt10 said:
The fact that there is no discernible pass rating like there was before is the problem, "man".

Look here:

PES 2018

http://www.pesmaster.com/l-messi/pes-2018/player/7511/

Low pass (combines pass accuracy and speed)

PES 2013

http://www.pesmaster.com/messi/pes-2013/player/7511/

Short Pass Accuracy
Short Pass Speed

That example alone should tell you that the values that should be identifiable and at a high enough gap should stand out, but they don't.

In PES 2013, you drop short pass accuracy to "1" (because 40 wasn't the low then) and literally the regular pass will feel like a through pass with no control. In PES 2018, you drop it to 40, you literally see NO difference, to pass speed or pass accuracy. It meets the intended receiver's feet every single time.

So yeah, that's what I'm on about. Need more proof, I'd be glad to provide it. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about solving problems that are so obvious - and the more you choose to ignore them - the more we take steps backwards.
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Hey mate,
Have you tried the new DLC? Did you notice any gameplay changes?.
I haven't but there are several people (as usual, I think) claiming there are some noticeable ones.
 
superleeds1 said:
Troll is that you ?
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This is sarcasm* not trolling and sir @superleeds1 I do not accept the label of "troll" since i am 14 years in online communities defending the game i love aka Pro Evolution Soccer/Winning Eleven. I find it extremely rude.

*When all users give examples like pass accuracy-pass speed/low pass are working to OP how stats work and he does only appeal as KONAMI's advocate.Far far far from trolling
 
slamsoze said:
This is sarcasm* not trolling and sir @superleeds1 I do not accept the label of "troll" since i am 14 years in online communities defending the game i love aka Pro Evolution Soccer/Winning Eleven. I find it extremely rude.

*When all users give examples like pass accuracy-pass speed/low pass are working to OP how stats work and he does only appeal as KONAMI's advocate.Far far far from trolling
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You were prepared to have a go at another member,why call him Adam? its always the same when someone gets pulled up.
We have the " I have been here dozens of years comments played like a get out of jail card."
Sarcasm or trolling, why pick up on someone like that?
Its not smart . Just get over it.
 
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superleeds1 said:
You were prepared to have a go at another member,why call him Adam? its always the same when someone gets pulled up.
We have the " I have been here dozena of years comments played like a get out of jail card."
Sarcasm or trolling, why pick up on someone like that?
Its not smart . Just get over it.
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The years ,not dozen btw, was not my jail card. Trolls just have a lifespan of some months.Im not that type of person.
If you want to explain more about "Adam", albeit i'm against personal references and Adam is a name not a "bad word", there are some people since PES 2008 that act as "PR" or "weekend soldiers " that come every year and quoting "PES this years is the best of the best" without any standard facts or points, people who will not play PES next year or the year after next.
For justice sake Master League COM AI is the more broken then ever this year in superstar, off-line modes are on the dark side of the moon, despite playing an Exhibition match in superstar is really good, but MasterLeague has the RPG factors that makes you play again and again.
Finally i am over since the begging, it was nothing personal with anyone, it was just a sarcasm quote.(now that i explained, it is not a sarcasm anymore). Thats all and i rest my case.Have a nice PES day.
 
Matt10 said:
The fact that there is no discernible pass rating like there was before is the problem, "man".

Look here:

PES 2018

http://www.pesmaster.com/l-messi/pes-2018/player/7511/

Low pass (combines pass accuracy and speed)

PES 2013

http://www.pesmaster.com/messi/pes-2013/player/7511/

Short Pass Accuracy
Short Pass Speed

That example alone should tell you that the values that should be identifiable and at a high enough gap should stand out, but they don't.

In PES 2013, you drop short pass accuracy to "1" (because 40 wasn't the low then) and literally the regular pass will feel like a through pass with no control. In PES 2018, you drop it to 40, you literally see NO difference, to pass speed or pass accuracy. It meets the intended receiver's feet every single time.

So yeah, that's what I'm on about. Need more proof, I'd be glad to provide it. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about solving problems that are so obvious - and the more you choose to ignore them - the more we take steps backwards.
Click to expand...

Yeah, many attributes like passing and shooting have definitely been more and more reduced to useless numbers.
Top speed is much less important than before, too.

You can understand the direction they want to follow is not realism or simulation when a game 5 years old has more indepth attributes system than Pes 2018.
 
wkhalil said:
lol.. funny how this forum is so critical of konami and picks on them every step of the way. I just think Konami creates a decent game, despite the flaws. Certainly would't want to have fifa as my only choice for a football game. Is there anyone else here OK with this game, or is it just me who thinks that it's not bad at all.
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The game its not that bad. I only wsh that the gameplay was more stat based and less scripted. Playing offline, It really dont matter if you play a home match agaist a low rated team, the game handicaps your team and the CPU attacks like Barca and defends like A Madrid with any team. In other way, your defenders plays like low rank league players and sometimes for no reason, you just cant score with a good striker. This goddam handicap and scripted matches that are pissing me off.

Sorry for the bad english.
 
You knew the moment when they got rid of passing accuracy and speed it was gonna go down a more arcade route where every player could do everything with a pass and that’s the direction they will continue to go unfortunately cos it attracts the masses and obviously the dollars
 
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miguelfcp said:
We get it, you have no problems with how mediocre the overall game is currently. By now everyone should've realized that our low expectations and not being able to hold Konami accountable for their low efforts got us mediocre and underachieving versions of PES over the last decade. If we keep going on the same track, it's not hard to find out what PES2019 and the following versions will deliver.
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No you don't get it.I have problems with how mediocre the overall game is currently i just think that the gameplay is good.Could be better but it's good.This rule applies to every game.I'm sure it will be even better in the near future.You people act like it's the worst Pes ever.Anyway you won't achieve anything or improve the game when you're just bashing it.
 
Matt10 said:
The fact that there is no discernible pass rating like there was before is the problem, "man".

Look here:

PES 2018

http://www.pesmaster.com/l-messi/pes-2018/player/7511/

Low pass (combines pass accuracy and speed)

PES 2013

http://www.pesmaster.com/messi/pes-2013/player/7511/

Short Pass Accuracy
Short Pass Speed

That example alone should tell you that the values that should be identifiable and at a high enough gap should stand out, but they don't.

In PES 2013, you drop short pass accuracy to "1" (because 40 wasn't the low then) and literally the regular pass will feel like a through pass with no control. In PES 2018, you drop it to 40, you literally see NO difference, to pass speed or pass accuracy. It meets the intended receiver's feet every single time.

So yeah, that's what I'm on about. Need more proof, I'd be glad to provide it. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about solving problems that are so obvious - and the more you choose to ignore them - the more we take steps backwards.
Click to expand...
That's what i also said that accuracy was the thing that was changed between players in the past,not the passing animations like you said.They were always the same for all players.In fact this year i see some passing animations that in previous years you wouldn't see them.There's no point in repeating the same things,sure stat replication on the pitch must improve but it's not that it doesn't matter at all.I find difference on the pitch between very good and average players.Most of you don't even play the game anymore but somehow you're some kind of ''experts'' on it.Ok...
 
We won't get anywhere with this exchange, Dennis. You weren't able to convince me to drop my opinion in favor of yours, and vice-versa. If the product Konami releases is good enough for you, well...good for you. I'm not pleased and until it meets my standards, I'll keep on holding Konami responsible in any way I can. Whether you think my approach is overtly aggressive or not is at this point irrelevant, each one is responsible for their actions and I 100% believe this is the way you're going to be closer to convincing whoever may be watching the community's discussions deliver a better game.
 
I don't want to convince you for anything.I also think that the game must improve in many aspects,i just don't think that it's gameplay is such trash like people saying.If someone from Konami reads these comments,which i highly doubt,we're not helping in any way by just saying the game is trash etc.If he saw this he would be like ''fuck them,i'm not doing anything for them''.We must say which are the good elements of the game that they must keep and improve furthermore and other issues they must fix.Anyway...In the end of the day it's just a game and it will never be perfect.Many people like arcade and many people like sim and it's not an easy thing to bring out a game that everyone will find great.They have to find a balance and i agree that they haven't find it yet in the degree i would want it but still it has some very good elements for my liking.I prefer the more sim route and i hope all the arcade elements will dissapear one day.For now i kinda like it,i play on -1 speed and i find it good and enjoy it,nowhere near perfect but good.I think they keep impoving every year as i liked 16 more than 15,17 more than 16 and now 18 more than 17.I'm pretty sure i will like 19 more than 18 also.I don't take all of these too seriously,i just play some games have some fun and life goes on.
 
Dennis, gameplay isn't trash.
It's just... inconsistent.

It has some very good ideas thrown in on it, but it's too basic. Too back and forth, too hectic. No first-touch errors. CPU makes perfect passes like 90% of the time. Shooting outcomes are more or less always the same. There's no in-depth strategy or tactics. There's barely any midfield. There are plenty of positioning misconceptions. But it isn't trash. It's just not good enough for a football that SHOULD be 'simulating' the real sport. And it's certainly not good enough for a game they've been working on for 5 years with the same engine. They should know better by now...
 
Chuny said:
Dennis, gameplay isn't trash.
It's just... inconsistent.

It has some very good ideas thrown in on it, but it's too basic. Too back and forth, too hectic. No first-touch errors. CPU makes perfect passes like 90% of the time. Shooting outcomes are more or less always the same. There's no in-depth strategy or tactics. There's barely any midfield. There are plenty of positioning misconceptions. But it isn't trash. It's just not good enough for a football that SHOULD be 'simulating' the real sport. And it's certainly not good enough for a game they've been working on for 5 years with the same engine. They should know better by now...
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I agree with everything you say.It's just that we haven't something better to play(atleast for my liking) for now so i play it and try to enjoy it for what it is and appreciate it's good elements.On 0 speed it's ridiculous but on -1 much better and not too hectic.I think now after latest patch gameplay is better,smoother and passing and shooting became more free and variable.Sometimes i can't help it and also put much attention on it's negatives and stop playing it for some time and then i come back.I also play Fifa for a change sometimes but it also has many issues like all teams play like Barca with 90% passing and i also don't like the feel of player and ball weight on it,they feel light.It's true that for the time we live now for 2018 both games aren't on the level they should be.But also we can't expect from them to make super huge steps in 1 year or so.I don't think it's so easy.It's not a shooter where you control 1 character and things are more simple.You have 22 people on pitch and they all have to behave very realistic.I think some years more will pass until we reach a spot where we'll be very satisfied with it.Atleast for 19 i hope they can make shooting system better and in general less arcady in movement etc.I still think that with all it's problems it's the best Pes in general gameplaywise until now.But that's just my opinion.
 
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