PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

tobi said:
The 'article' is written by someone with an agenda doing a bad job of masking their true feelings about a group of people he's supposedly trying to bring together.
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Agree with what you've said but Alan is not trying to bring people together, he's trying to antagonise like he always does
 
Chris Davies said:
For discussion...

Alan (AKA Curdstar) has posted this article on WENB about being a "PES-casual".

I have a great deal of respect for Alan, truly, he's a decent poster and a decent guy too. But I totally disagree with the article - to me, the other game literally exists for the casual audience - it may as well be called "Mass-Market Sports Title #1" - and PES used to be considered closer to a simulation (not entirely sim, but a lot closer to that than an arcade experience).

If anything, the game is already more casual now than ever before (by which I mean, assisted settings are becoming more assisted - and a player's stats can only be demonstrated to their fullest when you're playing with assistance, otherwise you'd be able to make any defender pass like Beckham with enough practice).

However - the only reason I'm bringing this up... Adam has responded to the article on Twitter, saying he's "smashed it" and agrees with it. Which is pretty concerning to me, as someone who buys PES because I want a serious football game.

Am I being closed-minded?
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That guy (Alan) has lauded every single PES since PES 2008. He hasn't got a clue. Stopped reading his opinions years ago. Agree with the bolded part.
 
So, I've been thinking...

February is right around the corner. The game was released in September. So that means it has been out for almost 5 months. Unbelievably though, Konami has put out only one real gameplay patch and 2 DLCs. The gameplay patch hasn't really improved or fixed anything so we can consider it to be actually a fake patch. And those 2 DLCs weren't as good and content-full as those for PES 2017.

So this year has been a massive letdown. Konami just keeps disappointing. Doesn't matter where they send Adam to live. He could be in the UK, Japan, or fucking Jamaica for all I care because it's just not working.

We should get monthly patches fixing stuff back and forth based on user feedback, so by the time we hit 6 months we got a polished game, ready to be played for another 6 months until the next game comes out. Otherwise it's just a scam. You get a broken. half-baked game and they patch it every 3 months or so, so you never end up being fully satisfied with the product you bought. The answer? Not buying the next one? Get it illegally? So they (Adam/Konami) can complain later about how piracy kills companies, so they punish the PC version by downgrading it? Instead of just fucking upping their game, stepping up to the times we live in and DELIVER?.
 
As if the hardcore PES crowd needed further proof that Konami considers them no longer the target audience for its game...
You elitists need to understand your time is up. You need to understand that us casuals don't care about realistic gameplay, we don't care about deep, challenging single-player modes, we don't care about innovative introductions to the game. We just want a cheap distraction.

Rest in peace, Pro Evolution Soccer.
 
miguelfcp said:
As if the hardcore PES crowd needed further proof that Konami considers them no longer the target audience for its game...
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Got to admit, with Adam being given a more prominent role, and then giving his support to an article that essentially says "let's not be so serious about gameplay" and "try MyClub"... I take that as a huge sign about the direction of the game. The Footy United podcast guys have said goodbye to PES and so have a lot of us - with each release, less members come back.

They're after a new wave of fun-loving fans - particularly the ones with some spare cash to gamble with on MyClub spins - and the message is "join us". A third competitor (who isn't just trying to copy everything EA does) is desperately needed now. In my opinion.
 
PES 2013 was the last good football game konami produced imo. It was a bad PES though, as was PES 2012. But at least, i could enjoy playing football with it. Actually, i'd play PES 2008 over PES 2018, and that game was a big mess, but it had traditionnal PES values (individuality, single player-focused).Some people here should consider playing the old ones. Especially, the ps2 ones. 5 and 6 have great modding communities here, with patches up-to-date. I don't miss any features from the new ones, and if i did i would play FIFA which is a lot better in what it tries to achieve, a "fun" multiplayer game of football for kids.
 
Chris Davies said:
Got to admit, with Adam being given a more prominent role, and then giving his support to an article that essentially says "let's not be so serious about gameplay" and "try MyClub"... I take that as a huge sign about the direction of the game. The Footy United podcast guys have said goodbye to PES and so have a lot of us - with each release, less members come back.

They're after a new wave of fun-loving fans - particularly the ones with some spare cash to gamble with on MyClub spins - and the message is "join us". A third competitor (who isn't just trying to copy everything EA does) is desperately needed now. In my opinion.
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Adam unfollowed me on twitter...we had Popeyes chicken together in LA...you don't unfollow someone on twitter whom you had Popeyes chicken with...

Anyway I know myClub is getting an overhaul for 2019. It makes perfect sense from a business decision and the state of the sports gaming marketplace is online gaming and eSports. And Chris, I agree with you on everything but at the same time I am ok with that. I understand that is the gaming world we now live in.

What bothers me and I'm sure it bothers you, is I'm just tired of the false hope from Konami. 10 years of false hope. You aren't fooling anyone anymore with the talk of "big gameplay changes for next year." Just be honest and come out and say "We are focusing on myClub and the online experience as it is the mode most fans play from the data we gathered. We aren't a big company like those that make other sports games so we have to allocate resources differently." BOOM, now you are honest about what the fans can expect. It just feels like Konami is going to milk this myClub thing for as long as revenue is streaming in. But when you are trying to out FIFA FIFA, is that really a sustainable business model long term?

I really feel Konami had a window, they had an opportunity around the time of PES 2014 to create a more sim-like and deeper experience. Give footy gaming fans an alternative for FIFA at a time when the hype from FIFA 09,10,11 was starting to wear off. You go on various FIFA forums now and the hate is real. But even still 14-17 million ppl buy FIFA every year. You don't think there is a segment of that fan base yearning for a different and deeper experience? That's how PES would have carved out their new niche in the footy gaming landscape. Be the Footballers game again. Instead they went the FIFA business model. How long till a lot of those ppl still playing PES religiously (more power to ya btw) see the competitor and PES are trying to be the exact same thing and now doing the exact same thing-- except the competitor offers a shitload more to its gaming package and more stable online?

To the guys like Jimmy-G who are still playing PES and enjoying it I want you guys to know I am happy you are happy. Honestly. I don't post much on forums anymore because everything seems to end up as confrontational elementary school bullshit over a video game but I do read through pages from time to time and I see the videos guys post and how passionate and excited they are about what they are playing and it makes me happy to see that passion. I just want a deeper experience which in turn will make even those guys still playing the game MORE happy with a deeper experience.

The days of me trying to "be in the know" so I can share info with the community is over. The days of regular posts and podcasts are over. It feels good to be removed from it all. Will miss the relationships I've developed but at the same time gotta ask myself "For who? For what?" All history does is repeat itself. Listen guys, I am always down to talk footy gaming and do podcasts with anyone who has a passion for it whether they are enjoying or not enjoying PES. I love the discussion especially with differing points of views. Feel free to reach out if anyone wants to chat I am always down.

Smooches
 
B-Man said:
Adam unfollowed me on twitter...we had Popeyes chicken together in LA...you don't unfollow someone on twitter whom you had Popeyes chicken with...

Anyway I know myClub is getting an overhaul for 2019. It makes perfect sense from a business decision and the state of the sports gaming marketplace is online gaming and eSports. And Chris, I agree with you on everything but at the same time I am ok with that. I understand that is the gaming world we now live in.

What bothers me and I'm sure it bothers you, is I'm just tired of the false hope from Konami. 10 years of false hope. You aren't fooling anyone anymore with the talk of "big gameplay changes for next year." Just be honest and come out and say "We are focusing on myClub and the online experience as it is the mode most fans play from the data we gathered. We aren't a big company like those that make other sports games so we have to allocate resources differently." BOOM, now you are honest about what the fans can expect. It just feels like Konami is going to milk this myClub thing for as long as revenue is streaming in. But when you are trying to out FIFA FIFA, is that really a sustainable business model long term?

I really feel Konami had a window, they had an opportunity around the time of PES 2014 to create a more sim-like and deeper experience. Give footy gaming fans an alternative for FIFA at a time when the hype from FIFA 09,10,11 was starting to wear off. You go on various FIFA forums now and the hate is real. But even still 14-17 million ppl buy FIFA every year. You don't think there is a segment of that fan base yearning for a different and deeper experience? That's how PES would have carved out their new niche in the footy gaming landscape. Be the Footballers game again. Instead they went the FIFA business model. How long till a lot of those ppl still playing PES religiously (more power to ya btw) see the competitor and PES are trying to be the exact same thing and now doing the exact same thing-- except the competitor offers a shitload more to its gaming package and more stable online?

To the guys like Jimmy-G who are still playing PES and enjoying it I want you guys to know I am happy you are happy. Honestly. I don't post much on forums anymore because everything seems to end up as confrontational elementary school bullshit over a video game but I do read through pages from time to time and I see the videos guys post and how passionate and excited they are about what they are playing and it makes me happy to see that passion. I just want a deeper experience which in turn will make even those guys still playing the game MORE happy with a deeper experience.

The days of me trying to "be in the know" so I can share info with the community is over. The days of regular posts and podcasts are over. It feels good to be removed from it all. Will miss the relationships I've developed but at the same time gotta ask myself "For who? For what?" All history does is repeat itself. Listen guys, I am always down to talk footy gaming and do podcasts with anyone who has a passion for it whether they are enjoying or not enjoying PES. I love the discussion especially with differing points of views. Feel free to reach out if anyone wants to chat I am always down.

Smooches
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Wasn't Adam on a Podcast with you and a few more guys right before PES 2018 landed?. Now he unfollows you? Out of the blue?.
I mean... how high-school is that?.
 
Well, he now updated it and somehow it's even worse. Much worse.

B-Man said:
Adam unfollowed me on twitter...we had Popeyes chicken together in LA...you don't unfollow someone on twitter whom you had Popeyes chicken with...
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:LMAO:

B-Man said:
I just want a deeper experience which in turn will make even those guys still playing the game MORE happy with a deeper experience.
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That's exactly what i want but to me it feels crazy people that are happy about the game are not supporting us people asking for improvements.
 
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Whats the point of dividing the fans even more if his problem is the divided fanbase(i guess)? And why is he acting so angry and childish? Whats the point of this article? Whats the message here? Why is it getting so much air time?

had to

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Oh boy, that is certainly something.

I'll call a spade a spade; that was a thinly veiled attempt to outright dismiss honest, valid criticism (that goes against the status-quo) from a subset of users who have supported this series for almost 20-years. More to the point, it's an attempt to convey to the fans that the reason they might be disenchanted with the state of PES and its current direction isn't down to the merits of the game, but its detractors. Throw in a bit of marketing and...
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Hey guys, want to play some myClub? I hear this myClub thing is pretty great. You should play myClub!

Here's the thing, I don't need another "casual," online focused football game. FIFA Ultimate Team 18, exuse me, FIFA 18 already has my back. I also find it interesting how he equates myClub with casual gaming considering it's a game mode where you need to grind, get extremely lucky, or spend copious amounts of money in order to progress. As in, it's a game mode that helps move Konami's profit margins. How convenient that it's being lauded. I will say that Konami is far more generous with their currency and player offerings than EA's FUT (at least on a surface level), but I digress.

If craving for an offline experience that goes beyond subpar and half-assed (looking at you, Master League) is "elitist," then slap a fat label on my ass and call it a day. I think FIFA's career mode is a bit shit, but I continue to dump hundreds of hours into it every year because I still find it more enjoyable than Konami's offering. The lesser of two evils and that's a despairing thought. There's a reason people pine for PES of yesteryear compared to what's being served up in our store shelves in 2018, and that reason isn't pre-order bonus Maradona or special agents. Again, I enjoy myClub and FUT from time to time, but not at the expense of a deeper, more enriching offline experience.

Look, I understand that there will be always "extremist" fans on both sides of the spectrum that vehemently adhere to their viewpoints as if they were doing their best rendition of a religious zealot, but hardcore and casual viewpoints aren't inherently bad. It's much more nuanced than that which is why I take umbrage with how he's created an "us vs them" narrative within this intentionally divisive piece.
 
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Until now I had no resentment towards Bhatti, as I've always just seen him as a random guy who tries to sell a game, but honestly this episode puts anything under another perspective. Agreeing with a similar stab at fans who wants a deeper, better soccer game, set the point of no return to me.

From now on, no more blind support to this company, in the name of a glorious past that simply doesn't exist anymore.. or to this guy, who is free to sell his My Club 2019 to whoever he wants, bar me.. they'll have my money when they'll give me a soccer simulation, not the sad, dull parody of this year.

and in the meantime, beside soccer-retrogaming, I'll pray to God that some indie company, or some talented guy on kickstarter who I'll gladly fund, or whatever, will finally show us a third, genuine way of simulating digital soccer free of all the shenanigans of this two companies, despite the odds of this happening at all.
 
The funny part is that Master League is, basically, what made Winning Eleven (and therefore, PES) what it is.
Of course those games also had an amazing gameplay and full of little details, but ML was THE shit back then.

Now they are simply biting the hand that fed them. But this will backfire.
 
It seems like Konami want us to convert over to FIFA, as a dedicated pes fan from the beginning I have jumped ship cos Konami have no intention of incorporating more sim elements into there game, also now whatever news comes out for pes this year cannot be taken seriously anymore, reason I say that for example kei mesuda said in an interview the game will be even slower than the demos, also said that you had to time your tackles cos you weren’t able to just walk to towards a player and steal the ball easily, well that was a load of shit, and don’t even get me started on ML, year 2018 and the MLs 10 years ago were a lot more advanced, Konami are doing exactly what EA were doing 10 years ago, also don’t see adam bhattis move making a difference anymore, sure he will have great ideas but the Japanese investors have the final say and other plans.
 
They'll have a chance at getting my money as soon as I'm able to play a match without MyClub ads in it. Which is, never again.

The train is moving towards microtransation fueled, unrealistic online-first simulations of the sport. Either you're in or you're out. There's no point anymore in ranting about gameplay realism, the obvious depletion of offline modes, the lack of innovation over the last few years, because you're not and you'll never be driving the train. The only power you really have is to decide when the time comes if the product is worthy of your money or not, and if it's not satisfying your vision of what a football game should be, the solution is rather simple: do not buy it.
So you demand a complex, deep Master League or Become a Legend and the game doesn't have it? Don't buy it. So you're disappointed because the game looks and plays like a mix of basketball, hockey and football? Don't buy it. I didn't use the word "demand" randomly: you're the customer and unfortunately for Konami if you're not satisfied with their product, there's always a competitor named FIFA ready to take your money instead.

I, for example, expect among many other things an outstanding offline Master League/career mode/whatever you want to call the mode. I expect realism, depth, and many rather simple yet welcomed features that have existed in Football Manager for decades but can't find their way in the best-selling football simulation franchises.
Does the game provide it?
No?
Simple. I do not buy it.

Talk is cheap: promises will be made, spectacular shows will be put in place to distract you, and the same smoke and mirrors will fuel some hype; but when the time comes, I let my money do the talking: please my simulation demands, or get the **** out of here.

In the meantime, people who do not join that train might witness the birth of retro-PES gaming as a mainstream movement amongst old-school, hardcore PES fans and not just as a temporary escape from modern football games as it has been until now. It's the only logical solution besides the arrival of a third option in the market besides PES/FIFA, and even so that same third option would inevitably have to succumb to the current and future reality of the market if it wanted to survive out there.
 
Ameppe said:
That's exactly what i want but to me it feels crazy people that are happy about the game are not supporting us people asking for improvements.
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I feel quite happy about the game. It's not a simulation, but to me it's quite fun for a couple of quick games after work and when my son isn't playing Fortnite.

This said i realise the game has lots of issues.

But do (and this is not a dig about you Ameppe) the people who want changes realise that most of them need to learn how to communicate in a way that people really listen to them. Most of their posts are so bloody patronizing (an example? The well meant excerpt about Jimmy in Bman post, the last podcast of Bman and his 3 friends, the way some people talk here about Curdstar - don't like him either by the way).

Since the PES after PES6, the community is divided. There is an abyss between the people who don't agree with Konami and are very vocal about it and the other ones.

I'm not sure if i'm one othe others, or if am being vocal. IMO there were some very bad games that were almost unplayable and some that were quite enjoyable although far from perfect.

I for example like 2018 as much as 2017. I don't understand Chris Davies (it's only an example, this a person who does communicate well and how means very well and has given a lot to the community) liked 2017 and is fed up with 2018. Are the differences that big? Am i blind?

It's not because people like me aren't always vocal that we don't see that PEs has some issues (remember my open letter to Adan Bhatti for exmaple).

The thing is that Bhatti and Tanvir get lots of disgusting tweets and other communications and i kind of understand when they are fed up and loose their patience...

So if yoiu ask me, why i don't support people who are very vocal about Konami's shortcomings, that is because i don't agree with the way they communicate or with other who communicate well, because i have different issues than they...

Is there a solution? Kind of: ask for sliders.
Perhaps we should all concentrate on this one demand. If Konami gets thousands of demands for sliders, there is a chance they will consider this.
 
Sliders are not the solution to the basic issues Pes has since years. Player individuality is going worse and worse every year, you don't fix that with sliders. Team individuality is not going to be fixed by sliders. But ok, go on, if someone points me to people asking for sliders i will support them, they are better than nothing.

I'm same as Chris Davies, i liked Pes 2017 but i hate Pes 2018. Not because it's so much different compared to Pes 2017, but because with Pes 2018 they promised a new cycle, a new era for Pes. Instead what we got is a worse Pes 2017. There is no evolution whatsoever since years and while i accepted it for the first years of the new gen, i don't accept it for Pes 2018 onwards. If Pes 2018 is their idea of a new cycle then they really are on the wrong direction for me and i really dislike that direction. Not going to support them as long as they continue to follow this new direction.
 
Ameppe said:
Sliders are not the solution to the basic issues Pes has since years. Player individuality is going worse and worse every year, you don't fix that with sliders. Team individuality is not going to be fixed by sliders. But ok, go on, if someone points me to people asking for sliders i will support them, they are better than nothing.

I'm same as Chris Davies, i liked Pes 2017 but i hate Pes 2018. Not because it's so much different compared to Pes 2017, but because with Pes 2018 they promised a new cycle, a new era for Pes. Instead what we got is a worse Pes 2017. There is no evolution whatsoever since years and while i accepted it for the first years of the new gen, i don't accept it for Pes 2018 onwards. If Pes 2018 is their idea of a new cycle then they really are on the wrong direction for me and i really dislike that direction. Not going to support them as long as they continue to follow this new direction.
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me too, well not so much the promises but the fact that the game is somehow worse, or moved sideways rather than forwards than the one before
 
It is somehow worse, now that is really a fantastic explanation, imagine being Konami and getting that as feedback...
How is it worse?

This may seem sarcastic (i'm sorry if so), but i'm really interested in what way it is worse...i don't see it. It's far from perfect, but imo it's not worse.

I agree with Ameppe about individuality, sliders will not change that. But sliders will help a lot of other problems. So if for example (one can always dream) Konami put sliders in 2019, then there is a big chance that lots of people will complain about individuality...sliders will help filter lots of problems...if you understand what i mean...
 
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