PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

[rockstrongo]

I don't know if you tried NBA2K17, They have the best example of customization in any sport game ever. You can customize the competition,the venues,the teams and the rules plus of course extensive sliders...All these are made available for the offline user by the developers.

If Konami had started putting pieces into this jigsaw puzzle 4 or 5 years ago we would've made it by now. But unfortunately we go to square one every year if not worse. Catchup bug took 6 years to be removed and we're still not sure it is removed.

As for PES 2018 I think with a patch to increase fouls plus a couple of tweaks related to positioning and AI attacking patterns this years game could be in good shape to move into a better future if they're willing to build on things, But are they listening? and we are here to help!

Probably get my head kicked in by the mods for going down the 2k route.
But here it is
NBA 2k has always,at least the past 4-5 years been the benchmark for me in how you produce and presents a game.
The customisation has always been fantastic,just the fact that you can share rosters on it,having real highlights from last nights game inside the games tv channel.
Presentation,everything,not to mention game play.
Both konami and Ea are Mickey Mouse operations compare to that.
Even though it's good that our games do not sell their souls to become any other game,I think both games kinda have lost their way in what they are,trying to make a game that suits every one!
They should focus on their own identity,but take notice of how other games do certain things.
As it is now,konami could release any game,we will probably buy it,because of its history,same thing goes for FIFA.
It's called branding,and most of us have made our choice,even if being on the fence,or buying both,not much to chose from right?

 

[Chris Davies]

Post of the decade that one Rock. Spot on.

 

[rockstrongo]

Post of the decade that one Rock. Spot on.

Thanx Chris.

 

[rockstrongo]

General player awareness is worse when using manual passing, many times it doesn't register that the ball is right next to them. It's very frustrating.

Davinson Sanchez is fantastic in the middle of Spurs' back three, he can go 1 v 1 with any striker (online).

During the build up to launch, I'm pretty sure I heard someone say the Wingback position was back in the game, I don't see it...

Limiting the saved formation slots to three is still a slap in the face. I have a 2TB HDD in my console, that should be the restriction. Even the PS2 games were restricted based on the size of your memory card. I'd love to hear Konami's reason for doing this, IMO they can't justify it.

Another thing from 2017 that wasn't fixed in 2018 is player positioning in Fluid Formations.

Kudos on the online though, it's on par with the beta, no lag so far. If only PA1 was also like the beta.

So on the spot with the manual passing there.
I like the passing,but your players ,being on manual,fels less responsive.
And playing the same game twice,one on manual and one on PA 1, not only does your players behave differently,the cpu does to.
If your on manual,they press you so much harder,maybe it's an extra level in difficulty,I don't know.
But huge difference as you say

 

[Robbery]

One thing that has got me thinking,games so big nowadays,the revenue for certain games are mind blowing.
And correct me if I'm wrong,the most popular sport on the globe,and still we only have two games competing on the market.
Hockey one game (plus a manager one)
Basketball two games.
Should be a market for more?

Licenses. I guess it must be incredible complicated to sell a footie game without having licenses especially if you are new to this market and without a grown fanbase like PES has it. Making a game under this circumstances seems to be very risky.

 

[rockstrongo]

Licenses. I guess it must be incredible complicated to sell a footie game without having licenses especially if you are new to this market and without a grown fanbase like PES has it. Making a game under this circumstances seems to be very risky.

I agree mate,it is.
Just thinking,if there's a need for a more sim orientated game,wonder if people would buy it anyway.
Reverse the time 3-4 years and I say yes,but now,customers are demanding other things,presentation,a nice PL experience etc.
If a big company picked this idea up,it could be doable,if EA would challenge 2k in the basketball market,who knows?
Or if/when football takes the next step in North America,maybe theres a market for a third.

 

[fregen]

So on the spot with the manual passing there.
I like the passing,but your players ,being on manual,fels less responsive.
And playing the same game twice,one on manual and one on PA 1, not only does your players behave differently,the cpu does to.
If your on manual,they press you so much harder,maybe it's an extra level in difficulty,I don't know.
But huge difference as you say

I agree with the players feeling less responsive when playing manual but my experience is that the good players reacts better than the less gifted. I play online divisions and atm I play one match with a really good team and the next with a not so good one (PSG then River, Juve then AZ etc) and it is very apparent that the PSG players for example is more responsive when I release a pass than the AZ ones. Not all the time but in general. Also, players seem to react better when using the advanced through balls than regular manual passes.

Speaking of Advanced through balls, they have to be more stats based than regular manual passing right? When I have the ball with Motta and try a adv through ball his success- rate is way worse than when I use Veratti. But with regular manual passing they seem quite equal. I find that pretty realistic tbh.

 

[elfie]

Probably get my head kicked in by the mods for going down the 2k route.
But here it is
NBA 2k has always,at least the past 4-5 years been the benchmark for me in how you produce and presents a game.
The customisation has always been fantastic,just the fact that you can share rosters on it,having real highlights from last nights game inside the games tv channel.
Presentation,everything,not to mention game play.

Fully agree with you.
It's the same for Sony's MLB the Show (it's a baseball game).
They have sliders with which you can pretty much change everything to go either arcade or sim.

You can change runner speed for different players (in the infield or outfield)
Change runner speed when on the bases.
For batting you can change how often you make contact / how much power etc.

It creates something for everyone.

There is an online vault in which the community can place their created rosters. This varies from updated squads with updated equipment / faces. But there are a ton of historical rosters as well, it is so much fun to play with teams from for example the 80s.

Then there is sounds of the show, which enables you to add sounds and music to the game.
I was in Yankee stadium this May and in my game i have now the actual guy that selling crackerjacks. You can hear him shouting in the stands!
The community has created packs for each team varying from batter walk up music, stadium sounds and cheers from the fans. (especially nice when you play a rivalry team)

So, if Konami does not provide us with this, at least give us more / better options to change this ourselves.

Gameplay is most important, but man do they have a long way to go with regards to presentation.

 

[rockstrongo]

Fully agree with you.
It's the same for Sony's MLB the Show (it's a baseball game).
They have sliders with which you can pretty much change everything to go either arcade or sim.

You can change runner speed for different players (in the infield or outfield)
Change runner speed when on the bases.
For batting you can change how often you make contact / how much power etc.

It creates something for everyone.

There is an online vault in which the community can place their created rosters. This varies from updated squads with updated equipment / faces. But there are a ton of historical rosters as well, it is so much fun to play with teams from for example the 80s.

Then there is sounds of the show, which enables you to add sounds and music to the game.
I was in Yankee stadium this May and in my game i have now the actual guy that selling crackerjacks. You can hear him shouting in the stands!
The community has created packs for each team varying from batter walk up music, stadium sounds and cheers from the fans. (especially nice when you play a rivalry team)

So, if Konami does not provide us with this, at least give us more / better options to change this ourselves.

Gameplay is most important, but man do they have a long way to go with regards to presentation.

Fully agree with you pal.
That's the key thing in my mind,can't get real licences and so on
Make the customisation top stuff instead.
Just a little thing like stadium creator,which disappeared after Pes 13, that was massive to me,being able to build a stadium.
Or in my case being on Xbox,and MS not letting you import files,why did konami take away our customise option,in 15 on 360, I could create badges,text to n the chest,pretty much anything.
Now it's gone
Haven't touch the Baseball games yet,but pretty damn close to give them a go

 

[rockstrongo]

I agree with the players feeling less responsive when playing manual but my experience is that the good players reacts better then the less gifted. I play online divisions and atm I play one match with a really good team and the next with a not so good one (PSG then River, Juve then AZ etc) and it is very apparent that the PSG players for example is more responsive when I release a pass than the AZ ones. Not all the time but in general. Also, players seem to react better when using the advanced through balls than regular manual passes.

Speaking of Advanced through balls, they have to be more stats based than regular manual passing right? When I have the ball with Motta and try a adv through ball his success- rate is way worse than when I use Veratti. But with regular manual passing they seem quite equal. I find that pretty realistic tbh.

Good post kompis ( mate/pal in Swedish,for you of non Swedish origin
I haven't been sticking to my manual passing as I should,and you're right with what you're posting here
I need to stick with it.
I felt the difference in 17, so it's here as well
Good post pal

 

[Lami]

Fully agree with you.
It's the same for Sony's MLB the Show (it's a baseball game).
They have sliders with which you can pretty much change everything to go either arcade or sim.

You can change runner speed for different players (in the infield or outfield)
Change runner speed when on the bases.
For batting you can change how often you make contact / how much power etc.

It creates something for everyone.

There is an online vault in which the community can place their created rosters. This varies from updated squads with updated equipment / faces. But there are a ton of historical rosters as well, it is so much fun to play with teams from for example the 80s.

Then there is sounds of the show, which enables you to add sounds and music to the game.
I was in Yankee stadium this May and in my game i have now the actual guy that selling crackerjacks. You can hear him shouting in the stands!
The community has created packs for each team varying from batter walk up music, stadium sounds and cheers from the fans. (especially nice when you play a rivalry team)

So, if Konami does not provide us with this, at least give us more / better options to change this ourselves.

Gameplay is most important, but man do they have a long way to go with regards to presentation.

I feel so behind the times after reading this. I really should try one of those MLB games if I could find them here.

 

[zeemeister]

Fully agree with you.
It's the same for Sony's MLB the Show (it's a baseball game).
They have sliders with which you can pretty much change everything to go either arcade or sim.

You can change runner speed for different players (in the infield or outfield)
Change runner speed when on the bases.
For batting you can change how often you make contact / how much power etc.

It creates something for everyone.

There is an online vault in which the community can place their created rosters. This varies from updated squads with updated equipment / faces. But there are a ton of historical rosters as well, it is so much fun to play with teams from for example the 80s.

Then there is sounds of the show, which enables you to add sounds and music to the game.
I was in Yankee stadium this May and in my game i have now the actual guy that selling crackerjacks. You can hear him shouting in the stands!
The community has created packs for each team varying from batter walk up music, stadium sounds and cheers from the fans. (especially nice when you play a rivalry team)

So, if Konami does not provide us with this, at least give us more / better options to change this ourselves.

Gameplay is most important, but man do they have a long way to go with regards to presentation.

Fully agreed and you beat me to it. Everyone carries on about NBA2K but the MLB series is magnificent. Yes there are a few issues online mostly because being in Africa I had to play against people in America so the lab was deadly.

The game isn't even a mainstream international sport but it kicks out superlatively presented sports games year after year.

 

[Robbery]

I agree mate,it is.
Just thinking,if there's a need for a more sim orientated game,wonder if people would buy it anyway.
Reverse the time 3-4 years and I say yes,but now,customers are demanding other things,presentation,a nice PL experience etc.
If a big company picked this idea up,it could be doable,if EA would challenge 2k in the basketball market,who knows?
Or if/when football takes the next step in North America,maybe theres a market for a third.

I think there is a market for players who love to have a more sim orientated game. But to be honest i think this market is not that big and i don't think you could make a game on the high level of PES and FIFA and making enough money by only selling it to the sim-crowd. I guess making a game on this level is very expensive and you need to sell a lot of copys to survive.

But i do think that gameplay is not (longer) what sells football games anymore. Just imagine this year PES would be the game that has all the licences, all the leagues and players and FIFA would be the game with just a handful teams from the big leagues. I don't think FIFA would still sell millions and millions of copys. It's not the gameplay anymore. Licences is what sells FIFA at first and licenses would be what sells PES at first. People love to go online and play with all the teams and star-players.

A new game from a new company would be great. But FIFA owns this market and they are not willing to give anybody a piece from this huge cake. I don't see a new company risking millions of dollars just to deal with this complicated situation. Maybe i'm to pessimistic about it but that's the way i see it. FIFA owns this market with his money. As long as they are buying licences exclusively there are going to sell copys like hell. An no other company will come even close to this amount of sales.

 

[robbieryan]

And it's freakin amazing

3 at the back finally works so well because of this.

Do you play 3 CBs, and have the LMF and RMF with the 'wing back' option?

Last year I just set my 'wingbacks' as LB and RB and turned on attacking full backs and that worked well enough for me, is it better with the new option?

Fully agreed and you beat me to it. Everyone carries on about NBA2K but the MLB series is magnificent. Yes there are a few issues online mostly because being in Africa I had to play against people in America so the lab was deadly.

The game isn't even a mainstream international sport but it kicks out superlatively presented sports games year after year.

MLB the show is genuinely a fantastic game, with fantastic modes, gameplay and presentation. could you imagine have a BAL type mode that's as good as Road To The Show? i wouldn't go to sleep or to work.

 

[Chris Davies]

MLB the show is genuinely a fantastic game, with fantastic modes, gameplay and presentation. could you imagine have a BAL type mode that's as good as Road To The Show? i wouldn't go to sleep or to work.

That's the dream. People say too many of us expect games to be perfect, and I can see why sometimes - but by the same token, Road to the Show... There's everything you could ever really want in a BAL-style mode, and it exists, for other sports games.

Since I was a kid I wanted PES to combine with Football Manager - all the fun of the game with all the depth (and realism) of the FM simulation off-the-pitch. SWOS started me on that path (great gameplay with 100s of leagues to manage in and transfers to deal with). It could be done - but will it ever be?

Every year that's what I hope for, and I'll take it from any football game. I'd take it from that new Jon Hare game (Sociable Soccer). I'd take it from an EA, Konami, Ubisoft, whoever. I'd play it as a mobile game for God's sake.

But maybe I've got to accept that it'll never happen. But when other sports get that treatment... Damn. Still waiting for an amazing career mode, for football games and for golf games. (Anybody fancy starting a studio?)

 

[shez]

Great post @rockstrongo !

And to imagine that the PES community had patches like Juce and Yair and others changing ball weight,net tension,Ref strictness ,AI and other stuff before these features were even in these other games shows you how advanced we were 5-6 years ago, and when you look where we are now and how basic our issues are makes you wonder really what Konami are playing at.

This year's game has minimal licenses compared to EA and has even less stuff than the years before, yet people are still loving it and waxing lyrical about it. It's football even if you make a game with kids teams it'll sell (backyard soccer anyone?)

 

[rockstrongo]

That's the dream. People say too many of us expect games to be perfect, and I can see why sometimes - but by the same token, Road to the Show... There's everything you could ever really want in a BAL-style mode, and it exists, for other sports games.

Since I was a kid I wanted PES to combine with Football Manager - all the fun of the game with all the depth (and realism) of the FM simulation off-the-pitch. SWOS started me on that path (great gameplay with 100s of leagues to manage in and transfers to deal with). It could be done - but will it ever be?

Every year that's what I hope for, and I'll take it from any football game. I'd take it from that new Jon Hare game (Sociable Soccer). I'd take it from an EA, Konami, Ubisoft, whoever. I'd play it as a mobile game for God's sake.

But maybe I've got to accept that it'll never happen. But when other sports get that treatment... Damn. Still waiting for an amazing career mode, for football games and for golf games. (Anybody fancy starting a studio?)

We should buy the This is Football franchise.
Man I loved that game,even though looking at it now,pretty rubbish

 

[rockstrongo]

Great post @rockstrongo !

And to imagine that the PES community had patches like Juce and Yair and others changing ball weight,net tension,Ref strictness ,AI and other stuff before these features were even in these other games shows you how advanced we were 5-6 years ago, and when you look where we are now and how basic our issues are makes you wonder really what Konami are playing at.

This year's game has minimal licenses compared to EA and has even less stuff than the years before, yet people are still loving it and waxing lyrical about it. It's football even if you make a game with kids teams it'll sell (backyard soccer anyone?)

That's my main concern,as a consumer,on Xbox,features gets taken away every year,since going in to the new gen era,not much added I'm afraid
At the same time,I'm coming off my first ML game with Torino (restart) and had one of those games,just stunning.
Probably why I still fight in Konamis corner,when it's good,it's pretty damn good,and to me,FIFA can't make me feel that way,not now anyway.

 

[gerd]

The only way t oget a great football game is a franchise that has the guts to bring out a game every 3 or 4 years, well i'm not sure, but certainly not eveery year.

The thing is that big gaming companies will never take that risk.

People who really, really like a(n almost) perfect game should start a crowdfunding action to try a game like that. But it will never happen.

Imagine Konami bringing out a game every years and giving us DLC to update the squads and the leagues yearly. Wouldn't that be great? But of course they will never pay all these people for one game every year (of course i would be prepared to pay for the yearly updates).

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

The PS2 version is better than 5, 6, and WE9LE in my opinion. Unfortunately it went down hill after. Ive been discussing it in this thread https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/pes2008-ps2-the-lost-game-video-thread.77796/

that's a bold statement geeeeee..

 

[shez]

That's my main concern,as a consumer,on Xbox,features gets taken away every year,since going in to the new gen era,not much added I'm afraid
At the same time,I'm coming off my first ML game with Torino (restart) and had one of those games,just stunning.
Probably why I still fight in Konamis corner,when it's good,it's pretty damn good,and to me,FIFA can't make me feel that way,not now anyway.

You'll be surprised that actually we're all fighting in Konami's corner, Each with their own approach and we're shaking things, But it seems that they only want a certain blind type of fans around them and not everyone.

I'm tempted to do a full comparison between PES 2013 with all the patches to PES 2018 and try to investigate if there's any progress since then..... We lost around 10 key in game features since that year and a huge chunk of the community, Is that the price of penetrating the online market? Was it really worth it judging by where we are now?

 

[PRO_TOO]

Yeah. Let’s start a crowd funding campaign!
I assume we’d get a core team of 100 people and lots of additional helper easily.
No official licenses. No official competitions. No fees for that stuff. Then we have some coder, animations guys, kits guys, all that stuff... put it all together.

I really think this could work!
...or we find a rich guy wich loves PES and isn’t afraid to spend some money (like 20 million).

 

[rockstrongo]

You'll be surprised that actually we're all fighting in Konami's corner, Each with their own approach and we're shaking things.

I'm tempted to do a full comparison between PES 2013 with all the patches to PES 2018 and try to investigate if there's any progress since then..... We lost around 10 key in game features since that year and a huge chunk of the community, Is that the price of penetrating the online market? Is ot really worth it judging by where we are now?

I have no doubt that most people in here,you included,has love for it.
I guess your speculation about the online market is what made this game different
Don't know if a change in management/personal might have a say in that as well,don't really know who ran the ship back in -11/12.
Like I said in my first post,identity crisis and making something for everyone hardly works
Good thoughts shez

 

[robbieryan]

That's the dream. People say too many of us expect games to be perfect, and I can see why sometimes - but by the same token, Road to the Show... There's everything you could ever really want in a BAL-style mode, and it exists, for other sports games.

Since I was a kid I wanted PES to combine with Football Manager - all the fun of the game with all the depth (and realism) of the FM simulation off-the-pitch. SWOS started me on that path (great gameplay with 100s of leagues to manage in and transfers to deal with). It could be done - but will it ever be?

Every year that's what I hope for, and I'll take it from any football game. I'd take it from that new Jon Hare game (Sociable Soccer). I'd take it from an EA, Konami, Ubisoft, whoever. I'd play it as a mobile game for God's sake.

But maybe I've got to accept that it'll never happen. But when other sports get that treatment... Damn. Still waiting for an amazing career mode, for football games and for golf games. (Anybody fancy starting a studio?)

My initial thought was going to be let's face it. MLB The Show is made by Sony San Diego with i imagine an endless budget and has full cooperation with the MLB for presentation and licensing, how will PES ever compare.

But then I remembered Don Bradman Cricket by Big Ant that really gave a good go at making a 'career mode' on an absolutely tiny budget for a modern game, they also came up with a brilliant and flawless system for bypassing licensing with their community edit mode tool, just press a single button and it auto downloads what the community vote as the best replication for that spot in the roster.

But then you know they are a tiny game in a minority sport and don't have licenses to worry about so can get away with it...

until they only went and got the official licenses for the ashes tournament (they're allowed to keep the global editor even for this fully licensed game)

i'll stop there in fear of going off topic. but its amazing on what can be achieved on a small budget

 

[geeeeee]

that's a bold statement geeeeee..

Yep read the thread i linked earlier and you may understand why. I would discuss here but off-topic.

 

[Lami]

So from reading all these posts, it seems like everyone and their mother have sliders, OF downloads and full SIM customisations in their games. Yet some people tell me that's bad for PES...

Right. Let's stay behind the times then.

 

[el niche]

Had a few more games yesterday... Finding the game is missing its soul. It can be fun at times... even witht the backheel, backheel passes and the no foul situation I guess.... But I am finding that the AI has been very one-dimensional when I play it. Its always the same attack, no matter the team (through-pass to the wing).

What are the chances this gets fixed in with a patch? I've played around 15 games and feel a little deflated... I feel the game is missing spontaneity and the feeling of "wow that just happened, let play one more game"

 

[xicpanad]

Yeah. Let’s start a crowd funding campaign!
I assume we’d get a core team of 100 people and lots of additional helper easily.
No official licenses. No official competitions. No fees for that stuff. Then we have some coder, animations guys, kits guys, all that stuff... put it all together.

I really think this could work!
...or we find a rich guy wich loves PES and isn’t afraid to spend some money (like 20 million).

I like this! Please just wait some time. I´m filling my lottery ticket as I speak... shouldn´t be too long until I win the big prize. If I do, I will get a team to develop a proper simulation soccer game!

PS. If in 5 years I´m not back, please buy PES.

 

[Topaz]

You'll be surprised that actually we're all fighting in Konami's corner, Each with their own approach and we're shaking things, But it seems that they only want a certain blind type of fans around them and not everyone.

I'm tempted to do a full comparison between PES 2013 with all the patches to PES 2018 and try to investigate if there's any progress since then..... We lost around 10 key in game features since that year and a huge chunk of the community, Is that the price of penetrating the online market? Was it really worth it judging by where we are now?

There had been progress from PES 2013 to PES 2018, however some were good progress and some bad. However the main difference I see between PES 2013 and PES 2018 is how much player stats matter and the master league. Also personally really loved the shooting in PES 2013. Although I think the overall pace of the game, player movement and dribbling is much better in PES 2018 since in PES 2013, all players felt like they run near the same speed. Also I find PES 2018 AI a bit better than PES 2013 due to how linear the PES 2013 is. However, I really do miss how much stats impacted players and teams back then. It use to be so hard to beat teams like Spain, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Man Utd, etc and can easily thrash Skybet League teams. However right now, the difference is slim to none. Just few little tweaks can make PES 2018 such a perfect game which is why it's so frustrating. It feels like PES 2018 is rushed with all the bugs and niggles.

 

[Topaz]

Yeah. Let’s start a crowd funding campaign!
I assume we’d get a core team of 100 people and lots of additional helper easily.
No official licenses. No official competitions. No fees for that stuff. Then we have some coder, animations guys, kits guys, all that stuff... put it all together.

I really think this could work!
...or we find a rich guy wich loves PES and isn’t afraid to spend some money (like 20 million).

I don't see why we can't work on an open source footie game. We have a lot of competent people here that can make that possible and with all the tooling and game engines nowadays, it's a huge possibility. I am ready to help if something like this happens. If one guy(named Gaz) can make a game like Properly Decent(if you guys still remember that game), then with a lot more people, we can make a decent game since it will be open source.