PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

if there was no patch announced i would see a difference not bothered what anyone says, you could hardly dribble around one player and lose them not with the right player i'm going round 2 sometimes 3 - manual passing is definitely less erratic now and headers from manual crossing is far more achievable - i ve also scored 3 manual goals from corners since then patch with a header - i dont think ive scored that many manual headers with manual crossing since release. I'd also argue the keepers look less floaty when they dive in the air and catch the ball as well as some bad first touches on Top Player from the AI..Iv'e also seen more sliding fouls - averaging 3-4 a game and im on 10 minutes - i think this is due to the poorer touch from the player receiving the ball , this is what i have observed since the patch
 
I play full manual 2or3 hours a day and the passing and heading seems exactly the same for me pre and afterpatch :) dont wanna say that im right and youre wrong, just that one sees black and the other white. They can be gameplay changes as they couldnt. Only konami knows the answer. I just dont get why they would hide it and not write it in the changelog or social networks.
 
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Post-patch is an enjoyable and harmless enough discussion I suppose – was it roughly around PES2010 when it all started? For us non-believers (the mostly silent majority), it's epic proof of the reality of the placebo effect, one of the most powerful psychological forces known.
 
Han said:
Page 400 for PES 2017 already.
It says something about how popular this version is. Previous editions got far less then 400 pages.
I wonder when we get the first bits of info about PES 2018...
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At first glance, I think only the PES 2016 discussion thread had less than 400 pages. The PES 2014 Discussion Thread even had 792 pages...
 
Keith Houchen said:
Post-patch is an enjoyable and harmless enough discussion I suppose – was it roughly around PES2010 when it all started? For us non-believers (the mostly silent majority), it's epic proof of the reality of the placebo effect, one of the most powerful psychological forces known.
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Not sure why is it hard to believe that updates are intended to make some changes to the game play? I would imagine that PES team has some sort of fifa like sliders; any small change to the passing speed, shooting precision or power for example would trigger a noticeable change to game play. Do you have some insider information within the gaming world that updates don't affect game play even in a small way?
 
Veprikator said:
I play full manual 2or3 hours a day and the passing and heading seems exactly the same for me pre and afterpatch :) dont wanna say that im right and youre wrong, just that one sees black and the other white. They can be gameplay changes as they couldnt. Only konami knows the answer. I just dont get why they would hide it and not write it in the changelog or social networks.
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Are you serious? You can't see differences in the game since the patch? It's obvious to a blind man that there have been changes. ...or is it just that you can't notice them. .look at the att/def levels y'know the blue green orange bar . .. before patch it would start at blue and jump to orange while attacking .. lose the ball and it's back to blue .. .. you don't notice that they mainly stay in green for most of the match and change accordingly and we're all imagining that? The positioning of players the pressure from the Ai , the difficulty has increased . . the dribbling . .the crossing. ..the through ball along the ground from 80 yards to the wings have all eluded you. wow.
 
Keith Houchen said:
Post-patch is an enjoyable and harmless enough discussion I suppose – was it roughly around PES2010 when it all started? For us non-believers (the mostly silent majority), it's epic proof of the reality of the placebo effect, one of the most powerful psychological forces known.
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May I ask..honestly, what is the purpose of your post? To get everyone to stop thinking there are changes? If we do so, will you be happy?

There are individuals in the PES community who have spent hours in their analysis, who have dug quite deep into tactics and player values. If their analysis suddenly changes after a patch update, then what is the consensus?

Even if they're wrong, how do you prove it? Even if you do prove it, someone is going to say the opposite. So what is the purpose? What benefit does it have to even make a statement like that?

I'd much rather have the individuals who are analyzing, or even over-analyzing, the game because that means they are in the market of being happy, and not being right. Being right, if it doesn't serve a purpose of happiness, does absolutely nothing for a community.
 
Keith Houchen said:
Secret PES gameplay patches are a delusion and always have been. PES has session-to-session differences. That's all you're seeing, and all you've ever seen through all the years. Belief that there could ever be such a thing as 'secret gameplay patches' is just part of the strange cult-like belief system that's grown up around this issue over the years.

'I've been playing this game 24 hours a day since release and I am telling you that...'

That is not going to convince me when a) I don't perceive these changes, after 100s of ML matches and a near-daily playing habit; b) you can't make your mind up if they're obvious changes or subtle ones – if they're 'subtle' changes, how do you know they're there?; c) Konami have never, ever, not even once, stated that they have adopted the practice, against all established professional custom, of secretly changing their product's gameplay without telling anyone, least of all Sony. When we look at the patchnotes for games where gameplay is changed, and we look at the absence of the same for PES (over all the years), there's only one reasonable conclusion. The patch gameplay changes are a delusion.

I accept in advance that this will be like trying to tell climate change sceptics that 98% of worldwide scientists couldn't reasonably be involved in a massive conspiracy.
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100% agree. Good post Keith.

Analyzing/ over-analyzing gameplay is all well and good, however, a bigger factor is the skill of the user that determines what happens on the pitch.
 
Edmundo 22 said:
100% agree. Good post Keith.

Analyzing/ over-analyzing gameplay is all well and good, however, a bigger factor is the skill of the user that determines what happens on the pitch.
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If the CPU starts to give acres of space in the defensive third, with no changes to Att/Def, tactics or anything else, and they back away (like PES 2010), how is that on the User's skill?

Frankly, you should know better by now that the discussion of realism isn't on player skill anymore. PES fans don't play that card. We are in the market to get a decent showing of football, with realistic competition. If I can ping 10-15 passes throughout the pitch, in the defensive third, on PA0 , what does that say? Couldn't do it before, why can I do it now?
 
Matt10 said:
If the CPU starts to give acres of space in the defensive third, with no changes to Att/Def, tactics or anything else, and they back away (like PES 2010), how is that on the User's skill?

Frankly, you should know better by now that the discussion of realism isn't on player skill anymore. PES fans don't play that card. We are in the market to get a decent showing of football, with realistic competition. If I can ping 10-15 passes throughout the pitch, in the defensive third, on PA0 , what does that say? Couldn't do it before, why can I do it now?
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Well, I can tell you have not played Pes 2017 extensively , cos if you did, you would know that the AI can change from game to game. Keith also described that in his post (session to session).

User is huge factor in realism and what happens on the pitch, feel free to disagree.

Enjoy !
 
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Matt10 said:
If the CPU starts to give acres of space in the defensive third, with no changes to Att/Def, tactics or anything else, and they back away (like PES 2010), how is that on the User's skill?

Frankly, you should know better by now that the discussion of realism isn't on player skill anymore. PES fans don't play that card. We are in the market to get a decent showing of football, with realistic competition. If I can ping 10-15 passes throughout the pitch, in the defensive third, on PA0 , what does that say? Couldn't do it before, why can I do it now?
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I don't know, but check your PM. Sent to you like a week ago!
 
Edmundo 22 said:
Well, I can tell you have not played Pes 2017 extensively , cos if you did, you would know that the AI can change from game to game. Keith also described that in his post (session to session).

User is huge factor in realism and what happens on the pitch, feel free to disagree.

Enjoy !
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I know the AI changes. That's not the issue. The issue is that their fundamentals are changed. Subtle changes, but not necessarily good. How can you also, which is the easiest and most obvious, disagree with the fact that Before patch = catch up bug, and after patch = no catch up bug? Sorry, it's clear as day.
 
Edmundo 22 said:
Well, I can tell you have not played Pes 2017 extensively , cos if you did, you would know that the AI can change from game to game. Keith also described that in his post (session to session).

User is huge factor in realism and what happens on the pitch, feel free to disagree.

Enjoy !
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I think many here would agree and understand that AI changes from game to game (session to session). I play the game extensively (and love it as much as you do) but updates do affect the game play and those who play it extensively would notice it. It's not about the AI only it's more about the feel of your controls, passing, shooting etc. It does not matter if one convinced there a change or not as long as they enjoy the game but I just don't understand why an update wouldn't include even a slight change to game play
 
Keith Houchen said:
Secret PES gameplay patches are a delusion and always have been. PES has session-to-session differences. That's all you're seeing, and all you've ever seen through all the years. Belief that there could ever be such a thing as 'secret gameplay patches' is just part of the strange cult-like belief system that's grown up around this issue over the years.

'I've been playing this game 24 hours a day since release and I am telling you that...'

That is not going to convince me when a) I don't perceive these changes, after 100s of ML matches and a near-daily playing habit; b) you can't make your mind up if they're obvious changes or subtle ones – if they're 'subtle' changes, how do you know they're there?; c) Konami have never, ever, not even once, stated that they have adopted the practice, against all established professional custom, of secretly changing their product's gameplay without telling anyone, least of all Sony. When we look at the patchnotes for games where gameplay is changed, and we look at the absence of the same for PES (over all the years), there's only one reasonable conclusion. The patch gameplay changes are a delusion.

I accept in advance that this will be like trying to tell climate change sceptics that 98% of worldwide scientists couldn't reasonably be involved in a massive conspiracy.
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I'm in agreement with this for the most part. This has been the biggest turn off for me in attempting to deep dive in to PES as well as FIFA. With the fundamentals of both games changing drastically each time I load it, how am I meant to perform any sort of analysis?!

Starting the game up on a sunday morning i may see a realistic pass speed, a bobbling ball and beautifully clipped animations, yet somehow i can get the polar opposite the next morning.

I'd love to be able to suss out what the variable is between each session and ive been trying for years but to no avail...
 
Lewpop said:
I'm in agreement with this for the most part. This has been the biggest turn off for me in attempting to deep dive in to PES as well as FIFA. With the fundamentals of both games changing drastically each time I load it, how am I meant to perform any sort of analysis?!

Starting the game up on a sunday morning i may see a realistic pass speed, a bobbling ball and beautifully clipped animations, yet somehow i can get the polar opposite the next morning.

I'd love to be able to suss out what the variable is between each session and ive been trying for years but to no avail...
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Thats very true as well but there has been permanent changes since the patch. .. the game plays differently .. you can't deny this .. the whole feel of the game is different even given the fact that some matches play diffferently from the last one like they usually do. . that's normal variation. .. this is a completely different situation .. . . the things that I could do before the patch I can't do them anymore.... I'm forced to approach the game differently . .. and I play the game all the time. Check the Att/def bar next time that you play.
 
Deco said:
Thats very true as well but there has been permanent changes since the patch. .. the game plays differently .. you can't deny this .. the whole feel of the game is different even given the fact that some matches play diffferently from the last one like they usually do. . that's normal variation. .. this is a completely different situation .. . . the things that I could do before the patch I can't do them anymore.... I'm forced to approach the game differently . .. and I play the game all the time. Check the Att/def bar next time that you play.
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Agreed, thats where my opinion differs slightly from Keith Houchen. It feels like were competing with Konami's gameplay tweaks in patches as well as differences in each time a game session is loaded.
 
Lewpop said:
Agreed, thats where my opinion differs slightly from Keith Houchen. It feels like were competing with Konami's gameplay tweaks in patches as well as differences in each time a game session is loaded.
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It's even worse if you're playing Master league lewpop .. .when you throw that into the equation it becomes a real head scratcher.
 
majuh said:
At first glance, I think only the PES 2016 discussion thread had less than 400 pages. The PES 2014 Discussion Thread even had 792 pages...
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True, but I only compared it with the most recent two versions, PES 2016 <-> PES 2017...
 
Lewpop said:
I'm in agreement with this for the most part. This has been the biggest turn off for me in attempting to deep dive in to PES as well as FIFA. With the fundamentals of both games changing drastically each time I load it, how am I meant to perform any sort of analysis?!

Starting the game up on a sunday morning i may see a realistic pass speed, a bobbling ball and beautifully clipped animations, yet somehow i can get the polar opposite the next morning.

I'd love to be able to suss out what the variable is between each session and ive been trying for years but to no avail...
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This is my favourite conspiracy because I think everyone has had an experience like this

One day I was playing a friend, we are pretty equal in playing ability and i won 6 consecutive games, he just couldn't get close. He got the hump and switched the console off mid-game. I convinced him to start again and he finally beat me.

I'm pretty sure i remember reading an article online at the time where konami admitted random bias towards players per session or something like that, maybe it was in a PlayStation magazine... Not sure I'll ever find it to prove it though
 
I wonder if it would be possible for Konami to allow users to use different patches of the game like EA NHL Hockey does? Since I don't have a PS4 I don't know if it still works this way. I know that in the days of the PS3 and the 360 you could choose which tuner you could apply in the game play menu. This way if you didn't like a patch you could choose which one you wanted to use. It also screws with your option files so once you download the newer version of the game you can never go back at least as far as I have been able to find out.
 
I've got an issue while i'm importing teams (i'm on PS4 pro, no boost mode, 1080p)
I've make a complete option file exports to share with the best of everything i've found, all very structured. I've also corrected all weak foot acc/freq for many players, and gk's weird stats.

It takes me a very hard work, and i wanted to share those exports...
Well, so by step i import teams like usual, 2nd box, etc., i check teams, everything seems good.

But when i'm getting out of Edit Mode, every created teams especially are reseted by default...
I've been using the SmcCutcheon tools, and everything seemed fine until now that my work is 90% done (i've just finished others asians)

Any clue? I've already modded teams nationalities with PS4 import tool, but i don't think that's the real problem.
It always worked well, but everything happenned since the 1.04.2 corrective patch...
Thanks in advance
 
You may all know this already but I have only juust realized a players free kick animation also determines his r2 shot animation
 
Matt10 said:
I know the AI changes. That's not the issue. The issue is that their fundamentals are changed. Subtle changes, but not necessarily good. How can you also, which is the easiest and most obvious, disagree with the fact that Before patch = catch up bug, and after patch = no catch up bug? Sorry, it's clear as day.
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Oh you mean fundamentals like player pace in varying speeds , turning effectiveness, passing, shooting, defender effectiveness, attacking effectiveness of both user and AI. Yep just like real futebol. Not necessarily good in your eyes, genius work by konami's japanese developers in my eyes. Thats even assuming any changes have been made to the gameplay, which for me nothing glaringly obvious in my ML games. In any case, fundamentals can change from game to game, pre or post patch.

Catch-up bug ? No problem here post or pre patch. Pre-patch (and post-patch) you can sprint away from defenders just fine, but again , this will depend on the user's skill and the player they are controlling (their stats).

Enjoy !

wkhalil said:
I think many here would agree and understand that AI changes from game to game (session to session). I play the game extensively (and love it as much as you do) but updates do affect the game play and those who play it extensively would notice it. It's not about the AI only it's more about the feel of your controls, passing, shooting etc. It does not matter if one convinced there a change or not as long as they enjoy the game but I just don't understand why an update wouldn't include even a slight change to game play
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Please see my above reply, and why should it include gameplay changes ?

As I said above, if there are any there is no major impact in my games in ML. Game feels the same, really good.

My 2 cents.

Enjoy !
 
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i have been playing both games just to see the differences, Fifa's biggest flaw is game speed "so fast it's unbalanced" you struggle defending not because the AI is outclassing you but you can't react to the speed of it. PES's biggest flaw is still stiffness from running on rails and lack of animations.

This is what i see that stands out most in game-play.
 
Just an example no animation on the goalie, he should be moving or at least alive.

Fox Engine can provide stunningly realistic movement, perhaps more so than Frostbite’s slightly ‘robotic’ animation (the latter often revealing its shortcomings during replays and celebrations).

Animation wasn’t as smooth as it could have been in PES 2017, so expect Konami to focus a lot of effort here.

link ...... https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/7-things-pes-2018-needs-to-do-if-its-to-better-fifa-18/
 
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As long as they keep adding more and more animations with every release, I'm satisfied. Of course they should also keep working on input lag and transition smoothness but if we think about the very little amount of animastions we had in PES 2014 and how many we have now, it explain the (great) shape PES is in. So I expect PES 2018 to have at least 20 new animations and better footplanting.

I still can't understand how we only have "jogging" speed, sprinting, and speed burst. There should be more variation there.
 
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