PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Redhat said:
I've seen a few people say this. A few. I really don't know what to tell you, but that hasn't been my experience at all. Whether it's down the wing, or a driving run through the center, I don't have much issue out pacing defenders with faster players.


They're not catching up to me here and this is on Top Player.
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I agree with everything you're saying except this part. There's no argument here that, if you run in a stop-start manner, you can flummox a fullback and end up appearing to outrun them. But that's more because you're tricking the fullback into slowing down or stopping.

In a flat race in PES 2017, without jinking or any body contact, Sane with the ball would run slower than Mertesacker without the ball. It's a deliberate hamstringing of top speed to prevent exploits. Personally I can tolerate it but I wish they could come up with a better solution.
 
romagnoli said:
I agree with everything you're saying except this part. There's no argument here that, if you run in a stop-start manner, you can flummox a fullback and end up appearing to outrun them. But that's more because you're tricking the fullback into slowing down or stopping.

In a flat race in PES 2017, without jinking or any body contact, Sane with the ball would run slower than Mertesacker without the ball. It's a deliberate hamstringing of top speed to prevent exploits. Personally I can tolerate it but I wish they could come up with a better solution.
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That's exactly my experience and pretty much was I was going to say.
It isn't the tricking the defenders or wing play that is an issue as it is easy enough to create a yard or 2 to get the cross in. The issue is with flat out race where you feel that the faster player is being held back in order to allow the slower defender to catch up.
I don't remember this happening as much in 2015 & 2016 but it was definitely in 2014 & annoyed me a lot as I like to sign pacey forward players in my ML's.

That is pretty much my only real gripe with the demo so far as I am loving it so far and can't wait until next week.
 
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romagnoli said:
I agree with everything you're saying except this part. There's no argument here that, if you run in a stop-start manner, you can flummox a fullback and end up appearing to outrun them. But that's more because you're tricking the fullback into slowing down or stopping.

In a flat race in PES 2017, without jinking or any body contact, Sane with the ball would run slower than Mertesacker without the ball. It's a deliberate hamstringing of top speed to prevent exploits. Personally I can tolerate it but I wish they could come up with a better solution.
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Agreed I want to test this out maybe the kick knock on and chase is the best option because tbh you shouldn't just R1 and outrun defenders
It hardly happens this way in real life.
 
romagnoli said:
I agree with everything you're saying except this part. There's no argument here that, if you run in a stop-start manner, you can flummox a fullback and end up appearing to outrun them. But that's more because you're tricking the fullback into slowing down or stopping.

In a flat race in PES 2017, without jinking or any body contact, Sane with the ball would run slower than Mertesacker without the ball. It's a deliberate hamstringing of top speed to prevent exploits. Personally I can tolerate it but I wish they could come up with a better solution.
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While I agree that there is some of that at play, it's nowhere as egregious as previous iterations. With that said, I just booted up the demo in order to demonstrate that I can in fact run past players with just pace. On Top Player. I'm not intentionally slowing down, either. I was literally just holding down the sprint button.



The only reason the defender eventually caught up to Walcott was due to the fact he was impeded (leg was clipped) as he broke into the box.

I'm able to get on the end of loose balls as well. Here's a goal I scored earlier with Neymar after Suarez (I should have passed) chased down a thunderous punt from the keeper in the rain!

I mean, unless of course you don't consider this utilizing pure pace to go by defenders? In which case I don't know what to tell you. Is there some sort of "catch up" handicap going on in the background? Probably. Even so, I've sprint in a relatively straight line down the wing, past defenders on countless occasions with the likes of Walcott, Sanchez, Bellerin, etc. Granted, my Sane video wasn't the best example of this.
 
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geeeeee said:
Hi vondave, that's good to hear that it is better than the demo.
Can you please check for me if you are able to start a cup with all human opponents, but at the start of each match can one of the teams be selected as CPU? The reason I ask is because on the old PES games I used to play a cup but I would play every game and be different teams. But in the newer ones they stopped that option.

I hope that makes sense. No worries if you cannot try for me, I can test myself next week. :)
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Doesn't appear so. Can't move controller across at kick off.
 
I've been listening to forum member B-Man's podcast about PES2017 (Footy United). Ver long podcast (more than 2 hour long, i'm halfway through it, it's a commuters dream).

Very good and entertaining podcast, very balanced view on the demo.

I'm becoming a big fan...those guys are doing great work for the PES community and it seems that the development team are listening to them.

Hats off.
 
RockyJJP said:
Free side select is available in cup matches, it was confirmed by Konami. But only if two controllers on and connected at the same time. One has to always be on P1, the other can go to CPU.
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May explain it just had one switched on.

Not seen that net editor, off to find it!
 
Before I go on to pick these vids apart, Redhat, I wanted to point out these are great examples of the agility in PES, being able to skip away from challenges or run through crowds. I completely disagreed with the post you originally quoted which said there's no space in PES. There is space, but, as with real football, it's scarce. And it's not always visible space - it's space you need to learn to create with crafty movement, passes which bait the opposition into moving, and clever dribbling which takes defenders and midfielders out of the game. In modern football, space isn't something you find yourself in, it's something you move into. And it only lasts a couple of seconds before that space evaporates and rematerialises somewhere else.

It's probably my favourite thing about this game - but only if you use PA 0. If you use PA 1 then the passes are locked into a wireframe model of possible directions. You can't pull the opposition apart in the same was as in PA 0 because you're not able to put as much information on the pass, to inform the recipient's movement and direction, to draw a defender out and create an opportunity further down the line. It's a completely different game you're playing in PA 0 compared to 1, one which I simply wouldn't have given a chance if it wasn't so easy to actually get good passing play going. I still make mistakes but I genuinely feel freer to pass as I please, whereas traditionally with manual passing in football games I feel like it prevents me from playing how I want to play because it's too pedantic, too focussed on longer passing whilst not getting that actually 5 yard passes should be easier.


Redhat said:
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In this one you're running past the players because they're sticking their leg out and missing the challenge. They aren't sprinting alongside you, trying to catch you.

The only reason the defender eventually caught up to Walcott was due to the fact he was impeded (leg was clipped) as he broke into the box.
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You can see the defensive midfielder stops running initially. Again, there's physical contact prior to the eventual tackle - so this isn't a clean example.
I'm able to get on the end of loose balls as well.
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Then you're not comparing somebody with the ball to somebody without it, which is where the problem lies :(

I mean, unless of course you don't consider this utilizing pure pace to go by defenders? In which case I don't know what to tell you. Is there some sort of "catch up" handicap going on in the background? Probably. Even so, I've sprint in a relatively straight line down the wing, past defenders on countless occasions with the likes of Walcott, Sanchez, Bellerin, etc.
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Then you'll probably have found that the fullback would catch up with you if you had a 5 yard headstart on the halfway line, whether you're double tapping R1 or not. That would be the clearest way to test it. Bellerin or Martial will burn past a fullback to get onto the end of a through ball (which looks great), and then gradually lose the headstart they had to the same fullback once they start dribbling. That's the issue.

But I also accept that, if it was a straight choice, I'd rather have to cut back and do something clever than to just kick and rush. I tend to be a player who over-elaborates anyway...
 
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CPU still lacks situational/tactical awareness

i saw a live stream of the full game earlier today. in reference to a screenshot posted here a while ago showing how the cpu didnt flood the box to try score in the last seconds, same story in full game. 2nd half extra time whistle about to blow, even though the cpu had attacking intent on level 2, with a fk given just inside opposition's half, both CBs still on the halfway not even contributing to the set piece...

in the demo, i played a match where the cpu didnt even react to a red card given to its team. cpu went a man down on 16' with LB given marching order. didnt make a tactical sub. ok fair enough. it scored against me on 19'. surely it will recognise now its a goal up and needs to sort out the hole in its defence to defend the lead. nope, nothing.
 
Yeah quite cool, but needs tweaking for the handful of teams I looked at.

Not sure how you change the net colour in the "goal netting design". Most are red and yellow, even for "blue" teams for example, so doesn't change based on team colours.
 
CB kurt zouma is very fast! he can catch up to almost anyone. he's faster than chelsea's FB's.
just saying some CB's have great speed.

in PES when your dribbling with "R1" you are slower, than when your running 2xR1 with the ball.
stamina matters late in games too.
 
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vondave said:
Not sure how you change the net colour in the "goal netting design". Most are red and yellow, even for "blue" teams for example, so doesn't change based on team colours.
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In past years the red and yellow have just been placeholders to show the patterns and the game has used your base home & away kit base shirt colours as the 2 colours for the net designs.
I am sure I read on twitter or somewhere that Adam said you can independently set the net colours as well as the shirt colours this year, but I couldn't see the option in that video.
Unless it is in another menu/screen of course, but it would seem like it would make most sense to be in the one shown in the video if it is in the game.
 
Redhat said:
While I agree that there is some of that at play, it's nowhere as egregious as previous iterations. With that said, I just booted up the demo in order to demonstrate that I can in fact run past players with just pace. On Top Player. I'm not intentionally slowing down, either. I was literally just holding down the sprint button.



The only reason the defender eventually caught up to Walcott was due to the fact he was impeded (leg was clipped) as he broke into the box.

I'm able to get on the end of loose balls as well. Here's a goal I scored earlier with Neymar after Suarez (I should have passed) chased down a thunderous punt from the keeper in the rain!

I mean, unless of course you don't consider this utilizing pure pace to go by defenders? In which case I don't know what to tell you. Is there some sort of "catch up" handicap going on in the background? Probably. Even so, I've sprint in a relatively straight line down the wing, past defenders on countless occasions with the likes of Walcott, Sanchez, Bellerin, etc. Granted, my Sane video wasn't the best example of this.
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I think the last video is the best example. The way Suarez out paces the defender running for the loose ball is realistic. It will be hard to run faster with the ball, I don't think there is a catch up bug.

Also, did Neymar get booked for stripping?
 
RockyJJP said:
Free side select is available in cup matches, it was confirmed by Konami. But only if two controllers are on and connected at the same time. One has to always be on P1, the other can go to CPU.
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Oh just read this. Excellent if that's the case. Yeh normally need two controllers to test. Thanks. :)

Sorry guys I should have multi-quoted:COAT:
 
geeeeee said:
I think the last video is the best example. The way Suarez out paces the defender running for the loose ball is realistic. It will be hard to run faster with the ball, I don't think there is a catch up bug.
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The last video doesn't have any dribbling until the player is past the defender, at which point the defender is literally behind the striker and can't get through his body. That's different. By that point, Suarez could have been Teddy Sheringham.


It's not hard to run faster than a slow player with the ball. It's just about timing your touches to match your stride. It's only hard if there's someone in front of you so you don't want to commit to a full speed sprint.

Certainly Martial or Aubameyang running with the ball should be faster than Blind or Mertesacker chasing behind them - not slower. If it was Luke Shaw or Varane managing to catch up with a similarly fast player then it'd be more understandable. But right now the only way to use wingers to beat a high defensive line is if you pass well in front of them so they just sprint. Robben won't run clear with the ball in those situations, he'll have to chase after it like he's Darius Vassell.
 
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