PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

[Matt10]

I've started globally editing PES 16 to learn more about how PES 17 will be. So far, so good. There is hope. Still some values to edit.

What is very common with PES, is that internal traits always dominate actual player ratings. I edited multiple values down to the lowest rating, and it modifies physics, but not necessarily ability. Results a toned down game, and a physical one at that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M3zy2izDkE

 

[PRO_TOO]

I've started globally editing PES 16 to learn more about how PES 17 will be. So far, so good. There is hope. Still some values to edit.

What is very common with PES, is that internal traits always dominate actual player ratings. I edited multiple values down to the lowest rating, and it modifies physics, but not necessarily ability. Results a toned down game, and a physical one at that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M3zy2izDkE

i do like the speed/pace of the game!!

 

[hitmanuk]

I've started globally editing PES 16 to learn more about how PES 17 will be. So far, so good. There is hope. Still some values to edit.

What is very common with PES, is that internal traits always dominate actual player ratings. I edited multiple values down to the lowest rating, and it modifies physics, but not necessarily ability. Results a toned down game, and a physical one at that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M3zy2izDkE

In all honesty thats looks better than any pes 17 video I've seen..still lacking fouls but the balance looked good

 

[Elja]

It all depends on how you play and setup your settings. Most FIFA 17 videos out there are played in default settings which tend to be a bit fast.

 

[Chuny]

Matt! I can't understand how you're able to play with that camera. Just watching that video made my feel a little dizzy. That zooming in/out is horrible.

 

[Lami]

all aboard!!!!
looks like i am gonna have a blast this year.

wonder how the Goliath brothers are gonna try and dissect these two new videos.

What Goliath brothers?

:/

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

I've started globally editing PES 16 to learn more about how PES 17 will be. So far, so good. There is hope. Still some values to edit.

What is very common with PES, is that internal traits always dominate actual player ratings. I edited multiple values down to the lowest rating, and it modifies physics, but not necessarily ability. Results a toned down game, and a physical one at that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M3zy2izDkE

if its set on 1.25 speed its quiet good

 

[Matt10]

i do like the speed/pace of the game!!

Yeah, it's not bad considering the two teams and how it was playing before. I will have some comparison videos in the next couple days.

In all honesty thats looks better than any pes 17 video I've seen..still lacking fouls but the balance looked good

Yeah, the fouls will show up though. Last night, during my livestream, CPU was sent off for 2 yellows - first time I had seen that in a while. There's hope, just have to dig a bit deeper.

Matt! I can't understand how you're able to play with that camera. Just watching that video made my feel a little dizzy. That zooming in/out is horrible.

Haha, I never noticed the zoom in and out. I wish the broadcast camera wouldn't pan like that, or even zoom out a bit more, but it's one of those things with Broadcasting camera in PES - used to be called Broadcast 2 that would zoom in and out like that, not Broadcast 1.

if its set on 1.25 speed its quiet good

Lol. I didn't mess with the sider, so it was played on 0 gamespeed. I don't like -1 or below because it makes shots move in slow motion, not to mention keepers.

Just goes to show how so much of PES ratings mean nothing, and the true ratings are already embedded in the players' DNA. I believe some ratings were designed with the intent to only to contribute to the Overall rating - like a math problem. Some ratings will affect simulated matches (CPU v CPU matches in ML, for example) as well.

If this is the case with PES 17, then I'll be a step ahead of it to find some fixes, assuming there will be another global editor...I hope.

 

[RAMAXWY]

What Goliath brothers?

:/

just a joke.

 

[DuduBR9]

if its set on 1.25 speed its quiet good

I like that pace, sure its much better than pes 2016 in its standard form, but I feel like players move in slow motion at times.

Im all for a slower, more realistic pace than we usually get from PES/FIFA, but not to a point that it makes movement not so natural (a bit slow motion).

I think the key to make the game has slow but organic pace is getting ball physics and AI right. Ball speed needs to have variety, ball must lose speed naturally, and also AI defensively must be good enough so we are forced to varieate passing direction instead of just passing forward.

Ai defende must be good enough so even when you pass to your CF for ex, hes forced to recieve/control the ball with his back at the opposite goal and force to pass backwords. AI needs to pressure dangerous attacking player from behind before the bal recahes him, forcing him to control with his back at the opposite goal.

Currently not only passing feels too direct and fast to players feet, and the ball never loose speed during its trajectory even when your player made the pass in a bad situation (when he was pressure from behind for example), but the forward player who recieves the ball, he does it with full space avaliable to turn, theres an smart AI who READS potential dangerous situation, and anticipate to it and try to pressure the recieving player from behind, forcing the latter to control the ball with his back at the opposite goal and even forced to pass backward.

These are things that are missing to make pace slower and the game more tatical. Its just not about making players move much slower on tbe ball to a point that compromises natural movement (slow motion).

 

[zeemeister]

Matt are you fixing PES 2017 now before playing it
Brother you are too much.

 

[Nizpakes]

I know the premier league aint licensed but they could do a better job with the unlicensed kits they give us.....ie sunderland,Newcastle, westham etc.....the kits r normally all the same pattern(style)...they should add some variety

 

[Dazfeeder]

I know the premier league aint licensed but they could do a better job with the unlicensed kits they give us.....ie sunderland,Newcastle, westham etc.....the kits r normally all the same pattern(style)...they should add some variety

Doesnt really matter since theres an edit mode.

 

[Matt10]

Matt are you fixing PES 2017 now before playing it
Brother you are too much.

I'm just reading into trends and prepping myself. While I'm optimistic, I'm not an idiot in thinking the game will be tailored for what I deem realistic. Might as well hope the adjusments made in PES 16 will be linear to PES 17.

 

[romagnoli]

just a joke.

Know any good ones?

 

[dubcity]

there is hoping that in PES2017 complete import of OF on ps4 is possible!


see here:





https://www.konami.com/wepes/2017/us/en-us/game_mode/#_tgt-uniform-edit

There won't be anything resembling the all-in-one option files of last-gen on PS4 PES 17, sadly. The PES news websites/twitter went nuts talking about "file-sharing" and option files a few months back when Konami first brought up USB importing, and Konami (of course) haven't corrected them.

Only difference from last year is the emblem and kits for each team will be able to be added together . Still will have to edit each team one by one. Won't be able to share rosters/created players, tactics etc.

 

[milenec11]

There won't be anything resembling the all-in-one option files of last-gen on PS4 PES 17, sadly. The PES news websites/twitter went nuts talking about "file-sharing" and option files a few months back when Konami first brought up USB importing, and Konami (of course) haven't corrected them.

Only difference from last year is the emblem and kits for each team will be able to be added together . Still will have to edit each team one by one. Won't be able to share rosters/created players, tactics etc.

read this carefully mate
Edit Data Sharing Available for PS4
Share the teams and players you create with other users simply by transferring them via USB
Data sharing is multiregional, allowing European users to share with fans from the US or Asia

 

[Chuny]

I agree, miss the individualism of the PS2 days.

Exactly! That's what made Winning Eleven/PES what it was. It was the core of it. Even when faces were pretty much all the same, plain-looking, everything else was perfect. And that's what's been missing since PES 6 IMHO.

 

[Chuny]

Haha, I never noticed the zoom in and out. I wish the broadcast camera wouldn't pan like that, or even zoom out a bit more, but it's one of those things with Broadcasting camera in PES - used to be called Broadcast 2 that would zoom in and out like that, not Broadcast 1.

It is actually the best camera, most realistic one, but they ruined it (oh Konami....) with that annoying camera-play. I can't believe they've never realized that, or even bothered to offer the same camera without that "effect".

 

[Deco]

Matt are you fixing PES 2017 now before playing it
Brother you are too much.

Lol!

 

[RockyJJP]

5 kit slots per team and can add kits for licenced teams. Thats amazing.

 

[broxopios]

I've started globally editing PES 16 to learn more about how PES 17 will be. So far, so good. There is hope. Still some values to edit.

What is very common with PES, is that internal traits always dominate actual player ratings. I edited multiple values down to the lowest rating, and it modifies physics, but not necessarily ability. Results a toned down game, and a physical one at that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M3zy2izDkE

Somehow it reminds me a lot the PES 2014, in that state.

 

[el niche]

I'm just reading into trends and prepping myself. While I'm optimistic, I'm not an idiot in thinking the game will be tailored for what I deem realistic. Might as well hope the adjusments made in PES 16 will be linear to PES 17.

Damn Matt, that looks pretty good. Now I'm debating if getting it for the ps4 or PC so I can get the global editor. As always looking forward to your work in pes and FIFA . I'm optimistic for both, neither will be the ultimate soccer simulation but I have fun w both

 

[Matt10]

Somehow it reminds me a lot the PES 2014, in that state.

Yeah, without the defenders obssessively chasing the attackers deep into the box.

I am a bit, for lack of a better word, bummed. Player ratings just don't mean anything in PES16. This has been the case for several years, but it seems this one in particular is significant.

The two values that do have an impact on gameplay are:

1. Speed
2. Explosive Power

Lowering these two values to the lowest value of 40, the game starts to get away from the defenders freaking out and over-committing for no reason. This also works with the attack so it does not feel like every body is charging ahead.

Other than that, most values are purely cosmetic to increase the overall rating. Shooting (Finishing) is a value that has no significant impact, you can still hit brilliant strikes with ease. Highly unsatisfactory. Some missed shots do look good, but they pure strikes again.

Like I said, if PES17 is built off of PES16 as a base, then we could continue to see the same trends in some ratings being completely meaningless. The good thing is that the issues that plague PES 16 (shooting and goalkeeping) may be fixed in PES17. So that combination of lowering Sprint/Explosive Power could be the only 2 requirements to get the game looking less chaotic from the defenders and attackers.

 

[RAMAXWY]

Know any good ones?

it usually depends on the person getting the joke

 

[milin_im]

Yeah, without the defenders obssessively chasing the attackers deep into the box.

I am a bit, for lack of a better word, bummed. Player ratings just don't mean anything in PES16. This has been the case for several years, but it seems this one in particular is significant.

The two values that do have an impact on gameplay are:

1. Speed
2. Explosive Power

Lowering these two values to the lowest value of 40, the game starts to get away from the defenders freaking out and over-committing for no reason. This also works with the attack so it does not feel like every body is charging ahead.

Other than that, most values are purely cosmetic to increase the overall rating. Shooting (Finishing) is a value that has no significant impact, you can still hit brilliant strikes with ease. Highly unsatisfactory. Some missed shots do look good, but they pure strikes again.

Like I said, if PES17 is built off of PES16 as a base, then we could continue to see the same trends in some ratings being completely meaningless. The good thing is that the issues that plague PES 16 (shooting and goalkeeping) may be fixed in PES17. So that combination of lowering Sprint/Explosive Power could be the only 2 requirements to get the game looking less chaotic from the defenders and attackers.

Matt, are you playing PES 2016 on PC or on PS4?

 

[Elja]

It is actually the best camera, most realistic one, but they ruined it (oh Konami....) with that annoying camera-play. I can't believe they've never realized that, or even bothered to offer the same camera without that "effect".

In PES 10-11, I think the broadcast camera didn't have that zoom effect cmiiw. Actually when you get used to using the camera, the zoom effect won't be that much of a problem anyway cause you won't freak out and know what to do, but I think they should get rid of that effect in PES 2017.

Aren't you on PC? You should be able to customize the camera however you want with Juce's tool.

 

[Matt10]

Matt, are you playing PES 2016 on PC or on PS4?

Playing on the PC, using PTE patch.

 

[vxcmplx]

Those know how to play, which gives a better overall impression of the game. Even though it looks faster on Youtube, it's evident the game still plays fast. This game will definitely be more enjoyable on -1 or -2 game speed and manual passing + auto feint OFF. I think this will ensure more weight, inertia and better foot planting. I really don't like the bow-legged player models that were introduced in Pes 15, and still makes up carbon copies of every player. It looks as if the body parts act on their own, instead of moving in sync with each other like an organic body. In Pes 2013, which I still play, the player body is working as a unit, foot planting is there and the ball is more separated from the feet than in Pes 2017. As I said, I'd like to see the coming game with full manual and slowest game speed to see the effects. Pes 2013 with manual controls is an entirely different game from playing assisted, whereas pes 15+16 lacked the depth to be able to produce the football that a manual game of 2013 can do. Let's see if it's better this time. The new ball physics and added first touch options should make it interesting. The hardcore pes gamers really need to forget about these show-off videos and try the game out for themselves.

I can't agree with this. Looking at manual clips from PES13 vs PES16, I can quickly tell the rigidity of PES13 is just too obvious to ignore. I played both in manual all year. You can craft organic plays MUCH BETTER in PES16, the comparison isn't even close. The ball path and ball weight gets corrected a lot more in PES13, not to mention the animation of player movement while he weaves left to right to left, remains way too balance, standing stiffly straight, like a rod on the field.

If you compare to two, you can see the difference quite quickly:

PES13: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEbp1nOcsjE
PES16: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsxXjN3hWAc

In PES16 there's way more gradation to where you can place your pass, how far, how fast, how powerful. It's way more negotiable. PES13 the ball just lands on the path of the receiving player, it is more , there's just so much more locked trajectories of passing which is reliant on the location of the receiving player.

I don't think PES16 manual is very free either, in fact I think it's one of the more "assisted" years, but PES13 has this even worse.

 

[vxcmplx]

But then, the game shouldn't stop something like that move from ever happening... I just think it should require a lot more precision. I don't play on manual, because I want the players' attributes to drive the game, but there's an absolutely huge middle ground to be explored between the two - hence the "assist levels" - and if we're playing online against other people, the default assist shouldn't enable you to put something like that together without trying.

Otherwise, online games are just going to be a button-mash fest and a Barcelona fest (again).

This is kind of a myth that needs to be addressed.


To me, manual in PES has never been completely manual as the word suggests. It has never meant a total disregard for passing and shooting stats.

There's still a level of ball path correction. Some years there's more, some years there's less. I never felt the passing stats were reflected very well in both manual or assisted settings. In assisted, your inputs gets corrected and the resulting pass is highly responsive to where the player is standing, thus almost turning the game into a bunch of dots and lines (ball going from player to player, without a lot of gradation). In manual, the input is less corrected and the pass success depends on if you can play the pass into the receiving player's activation zone. But that input in itself has error from player to player, so that's where stats come in for manual passing.


I also tend to think of the scale from manual to assisted levels as something like 1,2,3,4,5, instead of 0,1,2,3,4. Tho the jump between does levels does not always feel like a +1/-1. (e.g. the gap between 0 and 1 is pretty big in 16 this year)

So there is a some degree of stat influence in "manual" settings, but not as much as I'd like to see. That said, I don't feel assisted controls implements stats any better. It's basically the same formula, but the ball is just programmed to arrive to receiving player, the room for error for your angle of aim is greater, since the game overrides your input and make a better guess to which player you want to send the pass to, and then it also makes a more radical correction to the ball path so you don't make mistakes as easily. That correction, in itself, is not a very good representation of passing stats either, it gives too much parity to the difference of quality in passing stats.


In my opinion, the game has programmed the passing mechanics backwards.

The current programming view point of PES passing, especially assisted passing, seems to be grounded in the idea that the game will step in and help you to pass better, when your player has higher stats.

When in fact, I think it should be programmed from the opposite view point. A player with 90+ passing stat, should allow you to send the ball exactly as your manual input, without any errors. The weight, the path, the distance, should match perfectly to your input. With a player like Xavi, you should be able to make inch perfect fine-tuned decisions to the ball placement. You should be free to do anything you want with his passing, without computer interference. Coz he has 90+ pass stat. Here, the game should have minimal interference to your inputs.

And for lower grade passers, the game should introduce more inconsistencies in aim, direction, power, weight. So that way, you can't send a pass with a player with 55 pass stat, even if your inputs are perfect, you should find the player unreliable and inconsistent. Here, the game should step in and reduce the accuracy of your inputs.

In my opinion, this is the reason why the game doesn't bring out the passing stats well under any settings. There is some difference between the settings, but none of them feel real enough. Tho I think in higher assistance levels, the calculations just gets even more flattened. Their approach to how they program all of this is the long term problem.