PES 2017 Player Style, Preferred Position,Player Ability and Tactical Advice for CPU

kilay

International
11 November 2016
To be clear i'm talking about CPU tactics not players tactics.
After a week of test i think this about PES 2017 and tactics. Thnks to Royce, Papinho81, Tinker and dmendenhall_9 for their advices
If anyone have some experience to share about movement, placement, behavior and particular style of players, please post here.
The key of all the formation are the interpreters like the real football, in my advices there are change of position ,player style and ability to match the real style of certain players and their movements on the field.
Starting from a default tactic without make any change probably the team adopt the WM tact or the Pyramid , ok, is a tactic like another, but is really old and not have good point in this era of football. Try to see the placement of the player on the field while changing from offensive to defensive and you can see the gap from attack to defence, no-one cover the midfield this open space for counter attack and place 5 players in the box or just before, this usually create a great confusion. Some players not seems to understand where should stay, those behaviors are forced by preferred positions and Player Style, so i acted on those things.

This is my personal idea of tactics applied to PES 2017
To explain how the game consider the different role sometimes I compared them to some old style football role
the secondary position has ever A grade
I removed Trickster,,Mazing Run,Speeding Bullet from all the player and Hole player for the most of them. I have yet to figure out what they do except run the players without a sense, or dribble in front of the opposite without success loosing opportunity for key pass. (If someone find something of useful in those player style please tell me what :) )

KO is Kick Off
IN is In possession
OP is Out of Possession


GK
I would like to remove all the defensive goalkeeper style from the game (thnks royce), because The CPU will almost never come off their line even when it absolutely calls for it (cit Royce).And basically make the keeper less reactive (check Buffon, with or without)

CB
I've to do more test, but removing the Extra Frontman Style from almost all CB in the game,could be a fix for the no-sense last bar of the offensive prowess, used by someteam in knock-out match like european qualifications,cup final or any important match or derby.
Set Build Up for CB with playmaking duties (Bonucci,Boateng,Sammer) adding weighted pass ability if needed

FB
Set him to FB in all trhee fluid formation, just add him defensive fullbacks( or build up
(adding also the DM role secondary position (B)) if you want a more smart player that sometimes push up.

WB (FB/SL)
This is the real problem BTW i think this tricks could fix the strange setting added for standard WB. Make all of them Offensive Fullbacks
,in the Out of possession set them SL in the last position before they become FB and as close as possible to the side line; in the IN possession and Kick off set them FB in the last position before they become SL and as close as possible to the side line. This works well with some teams (barca,chelsea,bayern) but with other with centered attack and press(liverpool over all)i preferred use this settings
Finally Liverpool with a good formation, something of different in the setting of FB (I leave them FB in all three scheme), i think center\wide setting in attack\defense influence too much the positions.

DM
I recommend to remove also the anchor-man style from the most of DM that have it, that make the DM an half-back (in italian language centromediano metodista), a role of Old football formation not used anymore in modern football. So just few player needs this style (Javi Martinez, Mascherano) other classic DM fit better with Build Up (Busquets),Box-to-Box (Kantè,Khedira) or Destroyer(Sturaro, Khedira).

CM
Hole player is a weird style, It put the midfielder constantly inside the penalty area when in possession, this make the teams less compact and open space for the opposite counter-attack (i could compare it with a inside forward in the old style formations).So atm i removed it from all the CC. Anyway a midfielder without any style is too much offensive in the same way, so my advice is put for all the base midfielder (CC) the destroyer style(Rakitic,Marchisio,Ramsey) that make them a little bit disciplined. If the player is more creative make it Old Style N.10 (Fabregas,Iniesta,Pjanic) or Build up adding him the DM role in alternative positions if you need some kind of deep-lying playmaker Pirlo,Xabi Alonso (setting DM in KO and OP and CC lower possible in IP)

SL
Really few player that fit this position
The SL is not intended how a less offensive winger, is another role that put the player on the side with playmaking and covering duties (like Beckham). My advice is N.10 Old style or Creative Playmaker, with the same positions in all three fluid formation or if you don't like it try set AM on IN possession to put him a little more advanced.
If you need a player that run up and down on the side line (some kind of tornante like Florenzi,Angelo Di Livio)set him SL in all position with box-to-box role and trackback, remove

WF
ATM Winger doing the right things but there are a tons of style in the real football so, go ahead to edit them., I'm testing dummy runner in alternative to prolific winger and for Walcott fits well, he sometimes is centering a bit and I wanted this. For William i have added to him the CM alternative position also adding Box-to-Box Role (but removing Trackback). So now he is cover a little more and develop some defensive duties.
If you need a more creative and unpredictable player(Reus,Ribery,Robben,Douglas Costa,Bale)who stay wide, set his preferred position to WF with alternative role SS,add Prolific Winger and put him as WF in kickoff and in IN possession and as SS in out of possession
If you need he stay a little more in the center make him SS secondary WF Creative Playmaker(Messi,Hazard)In IN Possession 'and kickoff with their preferred position and in OUT of Possesion with their secondary position.
or WF secondary CF Prolific Winger(Ronaldo,Martial,Griezmann 2014) In OUT Possession 'and kikcoff with their preferred position and in IN of Possesion with their secondary position.
To reproduce the Raumdeuter role (muller,sterling, volland) set him CL Hole Player secondary WF + trackback with this setting
KO IP OP
WF CL WF

AM
Need more time to test, anyway my preferred settings atm are CAM Classic n.10 or CAM Box-to-Box or CAM Creative playmaker(not tested yet)
with Class. N.10 AM in KO and OP and SS in IP (Ozil)or
Creat. PM AM in KO and OP SS in IP (Rooney+Trackback) or
Class. N.10 AM in KO and IP and CC in OP (Ganso,Riquelme, could be right also for David Silva)+ Inserimento

SS
For people like Dybala, SS creative PM in all KO OP IP
For False-9 (Firmino rulez) same settings and lower the position in all three scheme.
For people like T.Henry i think CF Dummy Runner secondary SS , SS in KO and OP, CF in IP.
For Fantasista like Maradona, Baggio SS Old N.10 secondary AM, SS in KO e IP, AM in OP (give him all the passing ability)or Maradona SS Creative Playmaker secondary AM, SS in KO e IP, AM in OP (give him the most part of the passing ability).

CF
Leave him CF in all three fluid scheme
Give him trackback only for box-to-box CF like Mandzukic (for Diego Costa for example is too much)
Anyway here all the settings are fine, be creative :)

Other impressions
Mark Man and Fighting spirit make the player more aggressive and he of course make more fouls, try to with and without.
Anyway sometime Fighting Spirit put the player a little more out of position (WB FB\SL)
Track-back is a way to make less offensive a player.

Other advice is to improve the compactness.
And keep lower the midfield to balance the whole team.


Here you can see the difference between the movement of Barça fullbacks (WB) I forgot to set a Style of Playing to Sergi Roberto (Build up i putted) so he is a little bit centered and not cover well, instead Jordi Alba do the rights movement and cover his position .

Here another video thnks to dmendenhall_9.
To understand the difference with and without hole player see pogba at 3.50 so at 26,30 and finally at 46,00.
Some edit are different from mine but this video highlights well the global change of the assets of the team (MAN UTD)
cit from dmendenhall_9.
Your analysis of Player Styles will be really helpful for me as I edit more players.
For the above game it was crazy to see the difference in playing with the exact same teams. It was more difficult to pass through the midfield and their build up was much better. Overall it was just way more fun, ha.

The changes in my starting post about Player Style positon, Ability and position IMO are required to match the real player's behaviors.[/QUOTE]

here the premier league tactics
Middlesbrough, southampton, stoke, sunderland and watford require a fix, will be in the next video
 
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Flame

Premiership
18 December 2014
the game claims that playing style activate only in specific position eg prolific winger for rwf and lwf only
but I also heard ppl talking about cb with destroyer worked in 2015 and 2016, I also agreed with them
so how would be others? eg ss/cf with hole player, fb with box to box?
sry, I don't have time to test them and I would like to hear others opinions
 

kilay

International
11 November 2016
the game claims that playing style activate only in specific position eg prolific winger for rwf and lwf only
but I also heard ppl talking about cb with destroyer worked in 2015 and 2016, I also agreed with them
so how would be others? eg ss/cf with hole player, fb with box to box?
sry, I don't have time to test them and I would like to hear others opinions

I need to test unconventional position, but anyaway to give BTB to a FB you need to add him CC secondary role and really few player cover this position in real football (Lahm, J. Zanetti,Milner). So i make my changes just to set better the player i don't want put a wrong position that not match with real footbal. About Hole Player on the side i'm testing muller as Raumdeter with this setting CL Hole Player and works well, sterling too, but i think that something different is needed (remove trackback from him)
KO OP IP
WF WF CL
And about 2016 the games are really different
 
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kilay

International
11 November 2016
To replace the 2016 Destroyer setting for CB (really useful in the last edition), add him Mark-Man ability, is not the same but anyway should works .
 

kilay

International
11 November 2016
Finally Liverpool with a good formation, something of different in the setting of FB (I leave them FB in all three scheme), i think center\wide setting in attack\defense influence too much the positions.
First post updated.
 
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Deco

International
7 September 2012
Dublin
Leeds United
Finally Liverpool with a good formation, something of different in the setting of FB (I leave them FB in all three scheme), i think center\wide setting in attack\defense influence too much the positions.
First post updated.

Kilay. . what are you trying to show in the clip? . I don't understand your point.
 

kilay

International
11 November 2016
@Deco you can see that in previoous clip there aren't 5 or 6 players inside or just before the box, and when the team loose the possession the player retreats 3 and 3. Lallana is Classic 10 and Wijnaldum Destroyer. If you leave Lallana or Wijnaldum Hole Player them retreats all together.
The next is before my change of role and position, with the default settings of liverpool's players. Sorry this video is not good. Give me one hour and i will put a video that explain better.
 
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Deco

International
7 September 2012
Dublin
Leeds United
@Deco you can see that in previoous clip there aren't 5 or 6 players inside or just before the box, and when the team loose the possession the player retreats 3 and 3. Lallana is Classic 10 and Wijnaldum Destroyer. If you leave Lallana or Wijnaldum Hole Player them retreats all together.
The next is before my change of role and position, with the default settings of liverpool's players. Sorry this video is not good. Give me one hour and i will put a video that explain better.

Ok Kilay do you expect some players not to retreat as a unit and just hold their positions .. . .Liverpool and Notts Forest in the 1980's based a lot of their success on forwards and midfield tracking back when they lose the ball ... .are you saying that they should hold their positions and not pull back? are you saying that because they have certain qualities assigned to them that they should not do this?
 

kilay

International
11 November 2016
Thats the point, i think that some role (or card, call them as you like) make the teams playing's Style totally unbalanced.
30 minuts and I will put a video, wait ;)
And about nott's and liverpool 80'(I'm born in 81) I don't know very well that era of football, but certainly in 2016 the style of Liverpool is really different.
 

Deco

International
7 September 2012
Dublin
Leeds United
Thats the point, i think that some role (or card, call them as you like) make the teams playing's Style totally unbalanced.
30 minuts and I will put a video, wait ;)

I understand what you mean kilay. . . Matt 10 was talking about stuff like this .. with the teams on Pes 2017 rushing forward and rushing back.
 

kilay

International
11 November 2016
Here is my idea of right positions and retreat in both teams (maybe some little fix to the Height of defensive line)
 
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Deco

International
7 September 2012
Dublin
Leeds United
Thats the point, i think that some role (or card, call them as you like) make the teams playing's Style totally unbalanced.
30 minuts and I will put a video, wait ;)
And about nott's and liverpool 80'(I'm born in 81) I don't know very well that era of football, but certainly in 2016 the style of Liverpool is really different.

Well you missed a great era in football. . .I support Leeds united since 1970 ha ha . . and they were a huge force in football in years gone by .. . .I still have hope that they might come back .. . John Giles gave me his autograph when I was a child.. . .great midfielder if your talking about a classic no 10.. .what a passer of the ball. .. I bet you've never even heard of Eddie Gray . ..brilliant winger . . .google his goal against Burnley 1970. . . . class.
 

Deco

International
7 September 2012
Dublin
Leeds United
Here is my idea of right positions and retreat in both teams (maybe some little fix to the Height of defensive line)

Look at the gap in midfield when your forwards push up Kilay. .there's nobody on the left side of midfield to pick up the ball.. nobody.. .and the you 5 have or 6 players trying to run back. . .do you not think that's a bit wrong. . .the defense should be pushed up to the halfway line for support
 
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kilay

International
11 November 2016
yes this is because I set the WB how FB in all three scheme, because when CPU control the team use often the attacking fullbacks advanced tactics and i not wanted unbalance too much, i need more test, i will try FB with MC secondary BTB.
@Deco BTW Liverpool for my idea has some hidden settings . inside dt 18 there is a specific tact for some important team like Liverpool, manchester, barca, everton, real madrid, juve.

I don't know if CPU switch his settings or behavior following some data inside this bin, but of course are tactis.
 
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Deco

International
7 September 2012
Dublin
Leeds United
yes this is because I set the WB how FB in all three scheme, because when CPU control the team use often the attacking fullbacks advanced tactics and i not wanted unbalance too much, i need more test, i will try FB with MC secondary BTB

Kilay I'm not trying to be a smartass with you but you have 3 players in the box and nobody to pick up a loose ball on the left side and your forwards are pushed too far forward and the defense are sitting well behind the halfway line .. if you had 2 possibly 3 players pushing forward gradually and a midfield support spread across the pitch from left to right with the defense at the halfway line you would not need the forwards to rush back to fill that gap.. .a 3-5-2 would fix that situation. 2 Cmf's or Dmf's an Amf Rmf and Lmf and two forwards. . . you could then pass back and forth through midfield and if the attack failed there would be no rushing back by the forwards . .the midfield could defend and start another attack . ..this is only my opinion.
 

kilay

International
11 November 2016
Kilay I'm not trying to be a smartass with you but you have 3 players in the box and nobody to pick up a loose ball on the left side and your forwards are pushed too far forward and the defense are sitting well behind the halfway line .. if you had 2 possibly 3 players pushing forward gradually and a midfield support spread across the pitch from left to right with the defense at the halfway line you would not need the forwards to rush back to fill that gap.. .a 3-5-2 would fix that situation. 2 Cmf's or Dmf's an Amf Rmf and Lmf and two forwards. . . you could then pass back and forth through midfield and if the attack failed there would be no rushing back by the forwards . .the midfield could defend and start another attack . ..this is only my opinion.
Yeah understood. it's wrong i need to fix it. With LM in out possession and FB in possession the most of team works well, just with liverpool i had this issue.
Here the heat table of milner setted to LM in OP and FB Build Up in KO and IP. I I I think this is better, for you probably you agree this behaviors but in terms of playing this made the team too much unbalanced atm, how i said i need to fix it, but this behavior is just for Liverpool Fullbacks.

And what do you think about Barça Fullbacks movement?
 

kilay

International
11 November 2016
About the gap, that's the point. How to reduce the gap? I've tried to move player up and down on the field but without success. Move up the defensive line and also raise the compact not worked.. Any advice?
 

Deco

International
7 September 2012
Dublin
Leeds United
Yeah understood. it's wrong i need to fix it. With LM in out possession and FB in possession the most of team works well, just with liverpool i had this issue.
Here the heat table of milner setted to LM in OP and FB Build Up in KO and IP. I I I think this is better, for you probably you agree this behaviors but in terms of playing this made the team too much unbalanced atm, how i said i need to fix it, but this behavior is just for Liverpool Fullbacks.

And what do you think about Barça Fullbacks movement?

Well what I have seen of Barca is a 4-3-3 but when the fullbacks or one full back push forward two of the midfielders drop back a bit to allow for the runs forward by the full backs but they are solid in midfield with the forwards dropping back sometimes into midfield. ..it would be hard to simulate on Pes.
 

Deco

International
7 September 2012
Dublin
Leeds United
About the gap, that's the point. How to reduce the gap? I've tried to move player up and down on the field but without success. Move up the defensive line and also raise the compact not worked.. Any advice?

That's a tough question ha ha . . .sometimes I play a 4-4-2 with attacking full backs and the Ai compensates for it by pulling my midfielders back defensively without me instructing them to do it. Also kilay do you the Att/def levels? They will push your whole team up or down the pitch.
 
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kilay

International
11 November 2016
That's a tough question ha ha . . .sometimes I play a 4-4-2 with attacking full backs and the Ai compensates for it by pulling my midfielders back defensively without me instructing them to do it. Also kilay do you the Att/def levels? They will push your whole team up or down the pitch.
To be clear I'm trying to set the right tact for CPU, not for players. It's pretty the same for me, but about the two CB that not close the gap to midfield line when in possession, the team is too much long. I use attack def levels, and sometimes that fix abit this behavior, but how i previously said i would like to fix the CPU.
 

Deco

International
7 September 2012
Dublin
Leeds United
To be clear I'm trying to set the right tact for CPU, not for players. It's pretty the same for me, but about the two CB that not close the gap to midfield line when in possession, the team is too much long. I use attack def levels, and sometimes that fix abit this behavior, but how i previously said i would like to fix the CPU.

You would have to go into the cpu settings in edit mode for that if you were playing against the cpu's Barcelona team . .. . you would need to to adjust their tactics and formations to play against you . .look up Matt 10's tactics for tips ... .I hope I helped you a bit kilay. .. I'm not an expert on all of this. You can also move the individual players positions on the pitch like pushing the midfield up higher.
 

kilay

International
11 November 2016
You would have to go into the cpu settings in edit mode for that if you were playing against the cpu's Barcelona team . .. . you would need to to adjust their tactics and formations to play against you . .look up Matt 10's tactics for tips ... .I hope I helped you a bit kilay. .. I'm not an expert on all of this. You can also move the individual players positions on the pitch like pushing the midfield up higher.
@Deco sorry you've not understanded, I use Papinho and royce tacts from operation sport forum since now, and they fit better, but after that i understood how this setting changing the game(card,role, style ecc).In this post i totally changed my mind about that, my purpose is change the behavior of the CPU. I've changed the tacts for all the team's of principal league in my MOD, i know precisely what I'm talking about. Matt give some basic advice , but for me is not enough. I know that all team can have 9 different placement in player mode and six in CPU mode.
Anyway thnks for your time and your opinion.
Operation sports http://www.operationsports.com/foru...osition-player-ability-tactical-advice-2.html
tactics from papinho and royce
http://www.operationsports.com/forums/pro-evolution-soccer/896894-papinho-royces-pes-tactics.html
Sorry but have you read my starting post?
 
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Deco

International
7 September 2012
Dublin
Leeds United
@Deco sorry you've not understanded, Matt advice are totally wrong for my taste, I use Papinho and royce tacts from operation sport forum since now, and they fit better, but after my find these setting of card(role) style ecc, i totally changed my mind about that, my purpose is change the behavior of the CPU. I've changed the tacts for all the team's of principal league in my MOD, i know precisely what I'm talking about. Matt give some base advice that ,how previously said, i not agree. I know that all team can have 9 different placement in player mode and six in CPU mode
Anyway thnks for your time and your opinion.
Sorry but have you read my starting post?

No probs . . . hope your tactics work out for you.
 

ThanosMJ

OLYMPIAKOS AGAINST ALL
25 November 2010
PIREAUS
OLYMPIAKOS.S.F.P
i understand what you are trying to achieve here..you are actually doing konami's work.. but i think its just too much off a trouble.there are other factors which affect how the cpu is playing(.exe, dt18,heart feature,team spirit.script etc etc).so i think there is not much that it can be done by just "playing" with formations, tacticts,playing styles etc..interisting findings though..
 

kilay

International
11 November 2016
That looks very balanced Kilay .. .I'd be happy with that. . .the difference between this video and last nights is huge .. .what did you tweak?
here my changes
 
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kilay

International
11 November 2016
To close the gap i lowered all the Midfield, and I leave just one or two player in attack, that has really balanced the whole team. Finally the gap between defense and midfield are reduced and the teams retreat in the right way (or wahtever in a better way
wink.gif
) the two SM provide a good supports on the side and the spaces who them leave are covered by the midfielders. So after that i think to lower all the midfield line of the of the whole game 's teams.
 
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