PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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Jamezinho said:
There should be just the one control system for all in my opinion. How manual/assisted that would be is up for debate but I'd love to see a return to everyone playing the same experience.

More control options and sliders add choice and customisation, which is good, but this manifests itself as a problem when playing online. If Konami could perfect one control system and had the conviction to do it, I think it would be a good thing.
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I absolutely agree 100% !!!
 
I never tried playing pes 2013 with more than 0 bars, do you think 2 bars is free enough?
 
Ameppe said:
I never tried playing pes 2013 with more than 0 bars, do you think 2 bars is free enough?
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But i agree with only one pass assistance (1 bar being my choice) and the manual button
 
One control scheme - yep agree with that!

I think you should have plenty of options when it comes to personaling your visuals. e.g. radar, player names, camera angles etc. But Konami should have the balls to stick to one vision for assistance settings instead of catering for every permutation out there. Especially when it comes to online, trying to find a match for a game when you have several different things you can filter on is a nightmare. One system!

If they can make this new physics engine work in terms of getting passing/shooting error right if your body shape is wrong, then 1 assisted setting is the way to go. And they need to totally eliminate scripting based on stats. We really need freedom under this new engine.

Last night I had a shot outside the box and the player tried to chip the keeper even though I hadn't pressed the lob button. That's the kind of stuff they need to get rid of and allow all the variables and my user input determine where the shot will go. The only thing the assistance should do is help keep it to the general direction that I aim in.
 
Ameppe said:
I never tried playing pes 2013 with more than 0 bars, do you think 2 bars is free enough?
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since i play on keyboard, manual is useless to me. way to much wrong passes and mistakes.

i always prefer semi assited passes, so 2 bars is ok.

and just to repat, i speak for playing on keyboard.
 
Pure shot is cool , i really want to see similar shots system in PES 2014, but all other is just.. FIFA 13 .
 
Jamezinho said:
There should be just the one control system for all in my opinion. How manual/assisted that would be is up for debate but I'd love to see a return to everyone playing the same experience.

More control options and sliders add choice and customisation, which is good, but this manifests itself as a problem when playing online. If Konami could perfect one control system and had the conviction to do it, I think it would be a good thing.
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This. It is just a simulation of football, thus licence has to be taken but so long as the balance is there, a "one size fits all as good as can be" solution is in place, then it could eradicate one issue with footy games of late and will allow them to focus on other things, not the multiple problems that can manifest because of offering too much choice in "locked in" control.

I actually think a PES2011 passing model as default, with the L2 manual modifier is the way to go. The "sense" of freedom would still be there but the manual override offers that extra layer of skill if a player wishes to explore the possibilities in using that mechanic.

I don't think the problems PES or indeed any football game has of late regards passing is not entirely down to how player's use assistance to exploit, more that the choice in place presents more problems. You remove that choice and just make passing something that has to be mastered, regardless of it being manual or otherwise, but allow that on-the-fly manual solution to remain in place.

I don't think manual passing in football games is particularly "realistic", nor do I think assisted is either. The best passing model would be one which you don't question/notice that it is assisted or manual because it just works for all and the other systems in place function in tandem.

Maybe why a great deal of the community have such fond memories of the PS2 games was because it was a level playing field and even with scripting and alike in place it seemed more fair; capable of being harsh, but ultimately felt more fair. Maybe it is that core philosophy which needs to be recaptured more than anything else. I'm not saying just make PES5/WE9 with shiny graphics or better animations, but innovate with the theory that everybody has the same tools to do the job but it is simply down to how they use them. That is realism for me. Each Barca player has the same number of legs as each Celtic player but it is how they are utilised, how they have honed their skill with the same basic "tools" that is the real difference between the two sides on a man for man basis and how tactics/formation/strategy is set-up to best utilise those strengths and protect against weakness.

Look at a series like NBA2K : it has manual modifier passing/shooting of sorts in place but doesn't need to give the option of locking the player into manual or assisted in order to make the game flow realistically for hardcore fans. It just does what it does effectively and allows the player to express themselves without feeling as though they are playing with stabilisers on (with the exception of some rules/tendency sliders) as the vast majority of option in control is at the players fingertips in real-time, on-the-fly, thus it offers a more deep and expressive gameplay experience as a whole. It is purely down to how much you want to learn all its intricacies. Elitism shouldn't come down to what controller set-up you use, but how you use that which is offered to all. That is how to really stand out from the crowd. Same with real football.

Regards sliders, I used to think I wanted a vast array of sliders to customise the experience but now I think I would settle for more individual player attribute/tendency stats that can be customised.

Please note I am not debating you here Jamezinho, just trying to elaborate on your point somewhat ;)
 
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I would definitely welcome a return to the PES 2011 passing system.

Assisted passing with a manual modifier gives a level playing field - the problem now is that the assisted passing is far too precise, in PES 2011 it mattered a lot more who was on the ball and the difficulty of the pass attempted.
I simply can't use that level of assistance because I don't enjoy the game like that, so I play with zero assistance and it negatively affects my results online... On 2011 I never felt disadvantaged by my playing style (except for not abusing the low cross).
 
curdstar said:
Please note I am not debating you here Jamezinho, just trying to elaborate on your point somewhat ;)
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Completely agree with all you said there Alan.

I'm also of the opinion that the PES2011 control system should be the platform going forward. Looking back, it was almost spot on.

Also agree that neither fully manual nor fully assisted is particularly realistic, but I don't want to go down that well-worn path again.
 
Alan - if you can feedback this point please. Not sure if it's already been addressed but anyway...

Changing kick takers on the fly without going to the pause menu.

It's not really needed for offline but for online where you only get 3 pauses per match and you need to use 1 to change camera angle sometimes then another 1 to change a free kick taker. Cuts into your tactical options lol.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Alan - if you can feedback this point please. Not sure if it's already been addressed but anyway...

Changing kick takers on the fly without going to the pause menu.

It's not really needed for offline but for online where you only get 3 pauses per match and you need to use 1 to change camera angle sometimes then another 1 to change a free kick taker. Cuts into your tactical options lol.
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You must be thinking of FIFA - in PES you get 120 seconds of total pause time that can be spread out over more than 3 pauses. Doing a quick sub or tactical change can be done in 5-10 seconds usually.

On FIFA you can pause at any time when in possession, I think the way PES does it when there's a break in play is better.
 
I'm really glad people prefer the PES 11 passing system. The split between automatic and manual has really polarised the online community, there isnt enough of a community to sustain the latter and the former just rewards those that want to drag the game more toward FIFA.

Really do think the individuality and influence of pass masters such as Xavi/Pirlo have been lost in the last two games. It really does not matter how good they are with either system, one completely removes error and the other makes the error totally dependant on user input. Either way the end result is almost completely independant of the passing stat.
 
dannyfc2 said:
I'm really glad people prefer the PES 11 passing system. The split between automatic and manual has really polarised the online community, there isnt enough of a community to sustain the latter and the former just rewards those that want to drag the game more toward FIFA.

Really do think the individuality and influence of pass masters such as Xavi/Pirlo have been lost in the last two games. It really does not matter how good they are with either system, one completely removes error and the other makes the error totally dependant on user input. Either way the end result is almost completely independant of the passing stat.
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Yep, I very rarely even bother to bear in mind who is on the ball when trying to thread through an intricate pass... In 2011 I distinctly remember it being an essential tactic to find your playmaker to play those passes with confidence.

A lot of gameplay depth has been lost since PES 2011.
 
Yeah all of that can be setup before kickoff as well and you can select 2 players withot pausing at all. Just make sure you have selected the right FK taker 2 before kickoff
 
dannyfc2 said:
I'm really glad people prefer the PES 11 passing system. The split between automatic and manual has really polarised the online community, there isnt enough of a community to sustain the latter and the former just rewards those that want to drag the game more toward FIFA.

Really do think the individuality and influence of pass masters such as Xavi/Pirlo have been lost in the last two games. It really does not matter how good they are with either system, one completely removes error and the other makes the error totally dependant on user input. Either way the end result is almost completely independant of the passing stat.
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agree completely, and your point about the "split community" is a very good one. Giving people too many options isn't always the best idea, and this is a clear example of that.
 
dannyfc2 said:
I'm really glad people prefer the PES 11 passing system. The split between automatic and manual has really polarised the online community, there isnt enough of a community to sustain the latter and the former just rewards those that want to drag the game more toward FIFA.

Really do think the individuality and influence of pass masters such as Xavi/Pirlo have been lost in the last two games. It really does not matter how good they are with either system, one completely removes error and the other makes the error totally dependant on user input. Either way the end result is almost completely independant of the passing stat.
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Agree with a lot that you say here but 0 pass assist does not neagte stats. You WILL still feel the difference in quality of the player. I play only manual on and offline and can swear to this.
 
_anderson said:
agree completely, and your point about the "split community" is a very good one. Giving people too many options isn't always the best idea, and this is a clear example of that.
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Konami need to understand that, to see their mistakes and to learn from them. To me it's a bad decision.
They had good intentions, but very poor implementation.
 
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zeemeister said:
Agree with a lot that you say here but 0 pass assist does not neagte stats. You WILL still feel the difference in quality of the player. I play only manual on and offline and can swear to this.
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I've played on 0 pass assist as well since release and I have to disagree with you, the difference in passing accuracy between players is minimal, it doesn't have much, if any impact on how you go about your moves to try and find certain players in certain areas like it should.
 
There needs to be a happy medium between player input and stats input, and I would tend to agree with Rob and Danny that the famous PES individually has been lost somewhat since PES2011, particularly on full manual.

Pass assists and stat influence is such a subjective subject that it's almost impossible to please everyone with a 'one size fits all' control method, but I really wish Konami would do it. Then everyone will just have to get used to it for the sake of a more unified community. Splitting the player base between manual, assisted and all points in between is not the way forward in my opinion.

My personal take on this is I want more freedom than was available in older PES games, but never at the cost of stats influence. A sports game should never be all about which player is more accurate with an analogue stick. A large part of any sports game is tactical nous, and in football that's all about setting the correct formation, playing the most suitable players for each position, and making use of those key players during the game.
 
Jamezinho said:
There needs to be a happy medium between player input and stats input, and I would tend to agree with Rob and Danny that the famous PES individually has been lost somewhat since PES2011, particularly on full manual.

Pass assists and stat influence is such a subjective subject that it's almost impossible to please everyone with a 'one size fits all' control method, but I really wish Konami would do it. Then everyone will just have to get used to it for the sake of a more unified community. Splitting the player base between manual, assisted and all points in between is not the way forward in my opinion.

My personal take on this is I want more freedom than was available in older PES games, but never at the cost of stats influence. A sports game should never be all about which player is more accurate with an analogue stick. A large part of any sports game is tactical nous, and in football that's all about setting the correct formation, playing the most suitable players for each position, and making use of those key players during the game.
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It depends on what you want, i play FIFA on manual and then dropping back to semi is impossible as you cant put the ball into space..stats do need to play a part definitely but not so much as it closes the field up and open space is ignored. The argument about who good on a joypad is not really valid as the majority of time an average player on assisted playing with Torquay will always beat an average manual player playing as Barcelona
 
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