PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

The game from zeemeister video look really bad . Intermittent and strange movements, to high arcade speed, unnatural physics of the ball ... And you like that ??
General prospect of the game here in this video looks away from what I want to see . But it can be from replay engine or youtube .. i dont know ..
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Licenses are least of company problems.

The problem is cash and getting development team to do it. Also building new engine from scratch or buying rights for any on market (I believe you can even use CryEngine for it if you want to :P).

Back in the days there were 7 or 8 football titles. Who remembers all of them? ;)
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

info0, my best´s

winning eleven 2002 psx.. legend game
pes 6
we9 liveware evolution
football kingdom for ps2
winning eleven 4
pes 5
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

AntrAcsA said:
The game from zeemeister video look really bad . Intermittent and strange movements, to high arcade speed, unnatural physics of the ball ... And you like that ??
General prospect of the game here in this video looks away from what I want to see . But it can be from replay engine or youtube .. i dont know ..
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Its from PES2012 PS3 replay highlights shot with my mobile and uploaded to youtube.

Like I said before I am one of those fools that mopved on from PES5 and enjoyed a few games after that in the last 5 years. LOL evo-web has gone from a place of unbiased discussion to plain PES hate. So sad.
 
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To indepth this AI discussion, let's try and compare the game with real football, according to two fundamental aspects: lines and pace.

1) Lines:



While PES attempts to reproduce this lines cohesion quite well, it leaves continuous gaps for attackers to take advantage of.


2) Pace:

In AI vs AI matches, it takes PES AI an average of 8 seconds to create an attacking opportunity from midfield, with both teams well positioned.
That is the speed of a fast and precise real life team combination, starting usually past half-life, according to highlights.

There's yet another mayor flaw I'll talk about on in my next post.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

zeemeister said:
Its from PES2012 PS3 replay highlights shot with my mobile and uploaded to youtube.

Like I said before I am one of those fools that mopved on from PES5 and enjoyed a few games after that in the last 5 years. LOL evo-web has gone from a place of unbiased discussion to plain PES hate. So sad.
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Anyway i say its look bad for me... in real time the game look bit better, not highlights. And i don't understand you ... If i hate PES how you hint.. first i will be not here , i will do not have pes sites and... i will do not care about anything about PES... I am one of those fools which are definitely disappointed by the last 5 games of the last 5 years and still hoping that .. next one will be better, but for now this is not happening and I'm still here!
Who criticized the PES games they have right and huge number of reasons to do it, and them who like last games , they have same right ... cant see the reasons , maybe they are has some ,but.. its OK . So i am do not get your reactions... to trolling PES 6 and all old pes games lovers with unbelievable arguments .


xavi2009 said:
....
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I play a lot BaL and there the problems with A.I. can be see it much clean !
like in this pics
91686101.jpg

This is happen to me almost every mach when CPU needed goals... This defenders on the corners always make almost impossible to cover the offsides . He is just stay there always is last one of defence line, there is no other players around him .
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

The last big flaw of the game is what I call "team philosophy"

Look at this comparison between real life philosophies, and PES ways to reproduce them:

Real life: attack at different paces.
How it is done: basically, players will spend less time on the ball, or "sleep" the pace by moving it around a lot, or passing backwards between the lines.
PES: players around the ball holder will pump forward by making runs, or stick to their positions.
Unfortunately:: Since the AI doesn't care about philosophies, it will pass forwards 90% of the time anyway.

Real life: attack by the sides (left or right).
How it is done: variety of ways: sidebacks overlap side midfielders, side midfielders go forwards aggressively, wingers try to reach the bottom line.
PES: the whole vertical column advances.
Unfortunately:: There's no timing to it. The real use of this tactic is to break opposition lines by surprise. In PES, AI doesn't even mark you, so it's kind of a "spoiled surprise".

Real life: Attacks will be lead by X player.
How it is done: team try to pass him the ball fast, and then revolve around him
PES: Non existent.

Real life: team playing long balls.
How it is done: self explained.
PES: players are more distanced.
Unfortunately:: It is completely random. AI is not instructed to play long.


The lack of team philosophies in PES is quite notorious. The tactical sliders are just a way to alter minimal positional variables, but ultimately all teams play the same, and teams individuality relies on individual players capabilities, which is nowhere near satisfactory.

This is why PES is still far from recreating how different teams play.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

AntrAcsA said:
Anyway i say its look bad for me... in real time the game look bit better, not highlights. And i don't understand you ... If i hate PES how you hint.. first i will be not here , i will do not have pes sites and... i will do not care about anything about PES... I am one of those fools which are definitely disappointed by the last 5 games of the last 5 years and still hoping that .. next one will be better, but for now this is not happening and I'm still here!
Who criticized the PES games they have right and huge number of reasons to do it, and them who like last games , they have same right ... cant see the reasons , maybe they are has some ,but.. its OK . So i am do not get your reactions... to trolling PES 6 and all old pes games lovers with unbelievable arguments .
Click to expand...

No you went on a rant asked and you like that??

Seriously dude I am turning 34 dont treat me like an embicile.

Enjoy the shit flinging.

Still looking forward to PES 2013.

peace
 
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xavi2009 said:
The last big flaw of the game is what I call "team philosophy"

Look at this comparison between real life philosophies, and PES ways to reproduce them:

Real life: attack at different paces.
How it is done: basically, players will spend less time on the ball, or "sleep" the pace by moving it around a lot, or passing backwards between the lines.
PES: players around the ball holder will pump forward by making runs, or stick to their positions.
Unfortunately:: Since the AI doesn't care about philosophies, it will pass forwards 90% of the time anyway.

Real life: attack by the sides (left or right).
How it is done: variety of ways: sidebacks overlap side midfielders, side midfielders go forwards aggressively, wingers try to reach the bottom line.
PES: the whole vertical column advances.
Unfortunately:: There's no timing to it. The real use of this tactic is to break opposition lines by surprise. In PES, AI doesn't even mark you, so it's kind of a "spoiled surprise".

Real life: Attacks will be lead by X player.
How it is done: team try to pass him the ball fast, and then revolve around him
PES: Non existent.

Real life: team playing long balls.
How it is done: self explained.
PES: players are more distanced.
Unfortunately:: It is completely random. AI is not instructed to play long.


The lack of team philosophies in PES is quite notorious. The tactical sliders are just a way to alter minimal positional variables, but ultimately all teams play the same, and teams individuality relies on individual players capabilities, which is nowhere near satisfactory.

This is why PES is still far from recreating how different teams play.
Click to expand...

Funny thing is, after applying Phoenix patch with Alex gameplay, PES6 is still enjoyable. The same way as with ShollyM patch and his gameplay_v2 OF.

The problem with current PES was switching to new engine. They couldn't do it and recreate what made PES on PS2 magical and why PES got so many fans in the first place. Believe me, if PES was made only on PS3/X360 like it is today, the fan base would be v. low or non existent. The game is just this bad. You may not like FIFA, but they have nailed what made those PES of PS2 era great, FUN FACTOR! I don't have fun playing current PES. Yes, I may be nostalgic or something, but I find current PES limited in giving me FUN.

Still playing PES5/PES6 occasionally and it's great fun. You just want to play that one more game... Before I go to sleep.

That's the magic. Hopefully, judging from PES 2013 videos, it may be back. If only they did improve the goalkeepers in time :(.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

question. will there be any new animations in pro evo 13 sum say no but doesnt player id mean there will be?

will the shooting system be up and down or left and right on the stick?

whats the story with the demo and the other trailer that was ment to be released? but most of all how come no news about the demo i feel really let down about that we should know sumthing
 
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Went back and played some 2012, alleviated some fears I'd have after playing 2011 last night. The jump between those two games was pretty big, but then for me 2011 was a big step backward from 2010.

IMO, 2012>2010>2011.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

This is getting off topic, but i'll give it one more try. Normally, i'm very rarely getting into argument with people. This time, somehow, it struck the nerve.

klashman69 said:
juce said:
Also, i agree with info0, why this condescending tone...?
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Because your afraid than you might be wrong. That's why your perceiving it as condescending. Your refusing to question yourself.

Think, anything other than saying exactly what you believe would no have been acceptable in your mind.
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So, the tone of your posts is condescending, because i'm afraid that i might be wrong?! That's your answer...? I'm sorry, but this is bullshit. Makes no sense whatsoever.

I've been wrong so many times before, i stopped being afraid of it long time ago. Will never dismiss a point of view just because it's different from mine. However, i do take exception to the manner in which something is being said. And that's the problem with your posts. If you read carefully, you'll notice i'm not the only one here calling that out.

klashman69 said:
juce said:
Not everyone here is a complete idiot, so really, there's no need for this. You make some valid points, but they are totally overshadowed by the manner in which you present your argument.
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So i'm being condescending because i don't agree with you and i dare to present a point that maybe we are being too negative?
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No, not because of what you say, but because of how you say it. I already explained - see above.

Now, about your point that maybe we are being too negative:
I think this is such a broad and generic statement, that it almost has no real meaning... Do you take into account every single person who posted their opinion here? Yes, some are very negative, and without much substance, but mostly emotion. Some other posts, on the contrary, are very substantial, with good detailed explanations and suggestions for improvement. Yes, those are negative as well, because people are frustrated, and rightfully so.

You seem to be promoting this approach of "it's just a game, chill and enjoy what you've been given". Of course, that's one way to look at things. But many people take a different point of view, and when they see that year after year the game they spend their money on is not getting any better, and that their feedback is largely being ignored, they don't hold back the criticism.
 
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Read this on WENB "Animations in general are a touchy subject within the PES community, and I feel will remain for a while especially as PES 2013 isn’t improving them a great deal. But I’ll sum it up simply:

For me FIFA is a technically wonderful game. Filled with fantastic animations, and a game that bursts into life once the game gets going. It’s an amazing experience. BUT, I don’t play it. I play PES. I prefer the gameplay of PES, and for me that is the reason why I’m still a huge PES fan. Why have a beautiful moving game that plays poorly?

I’m hopeful this is the last year we complain about the animations in PES, and next year with the new engine we have a game that can compete with FIFA on a technical level. Oh, and hopefully it’s enough to make the guys at OPM actually give it a chance."

Fully agree and hope that next pess is graphic-wise also the best.
 
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personally dont give a toss about graphics

give me good fucking gameplay thats all that matters for a football game
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Evan Evian said:
Do you think that critical attitude (not hate) might have some to do with what Konami have served up year after year in terms of quality or has everyone just become willfully perverse eh Zee?
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I am critical of PES as much as the next guy but you need to give credit where credit is due.

And this year after year thing also has me mystified. Like I said I am a fool who plays the game and enjoys what is does right and hates what doesn't. What I don't like I highlight in other PES forums or to Jons Twitter account in the hope that Konami resolves it.

Its amazing how it goes through themes.when konami resolves an issue or highlights that something is wrong like animations you get these forums banging on the same drum. The trolling is so focussed.

We know the animations are not going to be much better yet you have people analyzing animations et nuaseum and highlighting what everyone already knows.

These to me aren't people looking to have an interesting discussion. They here to fling shit. If you dislike PES so much why the hell are you here?

I wish I had the gall to go to a FIFA forum as an ex fifa player and moan incessantly about what I don't like. No one is holding a gun to anyones head if you don't like it don't buy it. Don't go spoiling other peoples anticipation of the game. I'm not saying don't cticize but we have gone far beyond just being critical here.
 
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zeemeister said:
These to me aren't people looking to have an interesting discussion. They here to fling shit. If you dislike PES so much why the hell are you here?
.
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We are here or at least I am here because ISS/PES was once the greatest football game ever created since kick off 2 up until 2008. If memory serves serves me right kick off 2 was released in 1992 ish.(those were the days were you had to travel x amount of miles to an secret location with your Atari ST/Amiga in the boot and trade floppy disks and hope to god there wasn't a raid)
I'm not sure when the first ISS was released but im guessing around 1995 ish. That's a massive 13 years. And now its not. I would like to see it on top again and as a buyer of all the past products and current products i have a right to moan about what ever I want :P
 
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Very interesting is how one bad trailer can turn an entire forum. Once that happens, then something is really wrong, and it's not our fault, its Konami.
Anyway , i'm total agree with juce .
Some "boys" here, truly live in a role of Konami's lawyers.
 
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im just after pure gameplay and smoother transition in animation, i just cant handle the jerkiness with several animations on pes 2012 if they smooth them out im in heaven also if your after graphics fifa is your game, dont care about graphics to be quite honest im happy with 2012 graphics its good enough for me
 
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For the 1000th time:

PES 2013's animation-transitions won't be any better than in PES 2012, it's the same animation-engine!

There's no point to go on about that topic, everyone knows it, even Konami knows it, and PES 2014 will have a new engine that will solve that problem.

For me the biggest problems are playerawareness, playerswitching, ballphysics, strict rails, goalkeepers, referrees and cheating. The demo in two weeks will show how much improvement there will be in these areas.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

henrys hand said:
For the 1000th time:

PES 2013's animation-transitions won't be any better than in PES 2012, it's the same animation-engine!

There's no point to go on about that topic, everyone knows it, even Konami knows it, and PES 2014 will have a new engine that will solve that problem.

For me the biggest problems are playerawareness, playerswitching, ballphysics, strict rails, goalkeepers, referrees and cheating. The demo in two weeks will show how much improvement there will be in these areas.
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+1

Please stop talking the same things over and over again. Pes 2013 will use the same crap engine like Pes 2012. Animations will look the same bad as always. Forget about technically jump this year. Next year with new FOX ENGINE Pes will back on track. I know exaclty what some people think becasue I wait for good Pes for 5 years :SHOCK: Only Pes 2014 can give us everything what we want since Pes 5 - 6 :BYE: Pes 2014 FOX ENGINE RuLezzzz!
 
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Lol at people thinking new engine on pes2014 will guarantee good football game. Pes 2011 supposed to be revolutionary as well with big changes on core engine.

It'll all depends on how hard they focus on developing basics of the football. I wouldn't be surprised if pes 13 in the end gonna be better football game overall, while pes 14 will only have higher polygon count, better lightning and shaders and some more postprecessing effects.
 
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so is player id a huge lie then i cant see how we can have players moving and acting like there real life counterparts without new animations like if ronlaldo dont move like ronaldo then new animations are needed so he does

i thought this was the goal of player id to make players move and play like there real life counterparts or have i got lost sumwere
 
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PES 2014, will just be 2013 with super HD cutting edge graphics, perfect player models, atmosphere and smoother animations.

It will be the exact same gameplay but smoother on a more powerful engine. It will have all the graphics etc.. redone and made more sexy.

This gameplay is clearly here to stay.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

klashman69 said:
PES 2014, will just be 2013 with super HD cutting edge graphics, perfect player models, atmosphere and smoother animations.

It will be the exact same gameplay but smoother on a more powerful engine. It will have all the graphics etc.. redone and made more sexy.

This gameplay is clearly here to stay.
Click to expand...

That what i try to say a few days ago.
 
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