PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

info0 said:
There is one thing though, 2 years development time? It's not enough imo.

They will rush it yet again, while EA will be doing stuff behind the scenes, polishing their engine (like they did between FIFA 07 and 10).
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They need to bring it to market even if the first version is not 100% perfect, the next version can then deal with the new problems.

info0 said:
Keeping my tabs on KONAMI though. Hate FIFA and it's idiotic fanboys who can't realize FIFA is not simulating any aspect of football right... :X.
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I wouldn't go so far, Fifa 12 simulates a lot of football things very well, even better than PES 2012, like for example the animations, the ball-physics, the shooting, the physical interplay.

The problem with Fifa 12 is that certain aspects are not implemented well or at all, like for example an inertia/momentum-model, offensive AI or tactical depth.

That's why I prefer PES 2012, cause despite lots of problems it provides more and deeper football-experience.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

jonneymendoza said:
konami dont have the balls to make a next gen footy sim pc exclusive. too scared to do so
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obviously as it would be financial suicide. i gotta admit i prefer playing a football game from the couch, on a big screen, even if the graphics are inferior. it's just what i am used to.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

OPM said:
obviously as it would be financial suicide. i gotta admit i prefer playing a football game from the couch, on a big screen, even if the graphics are inferior. it's just what i am used to.
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All you really need is an HDMI cable to plug in the the PC to the TV, and one of these http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Wireless-Gaming-Receiver-Windows/dp/B000HZFCT2

or a Bluetooth receiver for PS3 controllers.

That's my setup in my house, and I get the awesome graphics and mods, with the awesomeness of a couch and a big tv.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

OPM said:
obviously as it would be financial suicide. i gotta admit i prefer playing a football game from the couch, on a big screen, even if the graphics are inferior. it's just what i am used to.
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That's exactly what I do on my PC in the living room using a 360 controller.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

OPM said:
obviously as it would be financial suicide. i gotta admit i prefer playing a football game from the couch, on a big screen, even if the graphics are inferior. it's just what i am used to.
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which i do every day on a 65 inch panny plasma with a 75 foot hdmi cable running behind my dry-wall to my pc.... works like a charm.. dont think that is a valid issue anymore
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

PES 2012 is nearly there to offer an addictive gameplay, it's small things that hinder it from reaching its potential so I'm curious what PES 2013 can achieve with this current engine.

Been playing and enjoying PES 2012, ok, let's say most of the time enjoying it, with phases of pure hate and frustration.

I don't mind losing to the CPU when the goals happen due to good play by the CPU, but when goals happen due to bugs and cheatings, my blood boils. On the other side I don't mind having no good goal-opportunities when it happens due to a good defense by the CPU and me using a wrong tactic. But if opportunies get prevented due to bugs or cheatings my blood boils again.

These hate/frustration-causes need to be reduced and the game could be awesome, despite the bad graphics and limited animations:

1. Playerswitching: This is the biggest trouble-maker of all, cause when the cursor is not on the player you wish to control, he will stay pretty much apathic and uninterested in the game happening. So you need to take control in order to make them make what you plan them to do, which is ok... After all I want to play the game and not watch the CPU do everything for me. But if the game doesn't let you control the player you want to control, that is a big problem.

And that's what happens numerous times, the game hinders me to get control of the player I want to control:

a) I make a pass to someone near me, I even use LT to make a manual pass, give the right power so that the ball doesn't get pushed too far, everything is perfect and then the game decides that the recipient of the pass should be a player far away who happens to be on the same imaginary line of the rolling ball and that far away player comes back to collect the ball. Even manually selecting the nearer player to get to the ball doesn't stop the far-away player from stubbornly trying to get the ball. Not only the far-away-player is then missing up front, destroying the whole structure of the attack-plan, but he is also disturbing the other player trying to get the ball. :RANT:

b) I'm under pressure, the CPU attacks and shoots, the ball gets reflected from the goalkeeper, one of my defender shoots the ball high and away to the middle of the pitch, one of my midfield-players is following the ball while in the air and is nearly there where the ball would land, he is unchallenged and can easily get the ball. What happens? Shortly before he reaches the landing-spot, the game decides to change the cursor from him to one of the strikers up front and let him come back for the ball, the striker who is covered by three defenders and who is three times as far away from the landing-spot as the midfielder... of course the defenders get to the ball first:RANT:

c) In certain pivotal moments in defense I can't select certain players no matter what I do.

2. Rebounds: The ball gets reflected on the goalkeeper or on the goal-posts and in 9/10 cases the ball somehow gets into the feet of the opponent's strikers.

3. Goalkeeper: He is better now after patch 1.03/1.06, but he is still awful against low shots from far, especially when they are directed into the corners of the goals. It doesn't matter how good or strong the shot was, it can be a slow rolling ball, the goalkeeper will let it in:RANT:.

4. Rails: The players move half the time on rails, this is no secret and I have nothing against it, it leads after all to a more concentrated movements. But there are situations, where you think, that player of yours shouldn't run in that angle or shouldn't pressure in that situation and way, cause it would only lead to a disadvantage. What you want is control of the player's movement, even those on-rail-movements. When selecting a player, I want to be able to change the angle of the railed-run or the speed of it or make him stop it. Stopping can be done using super-cancel, but changing the angle of the rail, the speed of the run, pressure... is not possible.

5. Ball-physics: I want to see the ball being designed to be an independent entity, that follows realistic physics and not being instrumentalised to serve cheating-scripting like it currently is.

6. Pressuring: The CPU is pressuring like crazy with two players on every ball-controlling player. High and concentrated double-pressure is a tactic that is used in real-life-football, but in real life it has a price-tag in the form of reduced stamina and higher fatigue. In the game it has no such punishment and so the CPU can use it for 90 minutes without problems. A realistic realtime twotiered stamina/fatigue-system could fix this, and this feature already exists in the Wii-version, but strangely in the PS3/xbox360/PC-versions it's completely missing.

Verdict:
If these things were fixed and implemented in PES 2013, it could be an awesome game despite the outdated graphics and animation.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

So we've established that couch gaming is possible on PC too. But that still doesn't change the fact that making PES PC only would be financial suicide. Even if Konami somehow managed to eliminate piracy by creating some kind of always-online DRM scheme in diablo 3 style
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Couch gaming is great. I've just bought a Logitech K800 and a G700 along with 2 x Xbox360 Wireless controllers for my PC. I can slouch on the sofa while controlling my PC on my 51" 3D Plasma :D
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

henrys hand said:
PES 2012 is nearly there to offer an addictive gameplay, it's small things that hinder it from reaching its potential so I'm curious what PES 2013 can achieve with this current engine.

Been playing and enjoying PES 2012, ok, let's say most of the time enjoying it, with phases of pure hate and frustration.

I don't mind losing to the CPU when the goals happen due to good play by the CPU, but when goals happen due to bugs and cheatings, my blood boils. On the other side I don't mind having no good goal-opportunities when it happens due to a good defense by the CPU and me using a wrong tactic. But if opportunies get prevented due to bugs or cheatings my blood boils again.

These hate/frustration-causes need to be reduced and the game could be awesome, despite the bad graphics and limited animations:

1. Playerswitching: This is the biggest trouble-maker of all, cause when the cursor is not on the player you wish to control, he will stay pretty much apathic and uninterested in the game happening. So you need to take control in order to make them make what you plan them to do, which is ok... After all I want to play the game and not watch the CPU do everything for me. But if the game doesn't let you control the player you want to control, that is a big problem.

And that's what happens numerous times, the game hinders me to get control of the player I want to control:

a) I make a pass to someone near me, I even use LT to make a manual pass, give the right power so that the ball doesn't get pushed too far, everything is perfect and then the game decides that the recipient of the pass should be a player far away who happens to be on the same imaginary line of the rolling ball and that far away player comes back to collect the ball. Even manually selecting the nearer player to get to the ball doesn't stop the far-away player from stubbornly trying to get the ball. Not only the far-away-player is then missing up front, destroying the whole structure of the attack-plan, but he is also disturbing the other player trying to get the ball. :RANT:

b) I'm under pressure, the CPU attacks and shoots, the ball gets reflected from the goalkeeper, one of my defender shoots the ball high and away to the middle of the pitch, one of my midfield-players is following the ball while in the air and is nearly there where the ball would land, he is unchallenged and can easily get the ball. What happens? Shortly before he reaches the landing-spot, the game decides to change the cursor from him to one of the strikers up front and let him come back for the ball, the striker who is covered by three defenders and who is three times as far away from the landing-spot as the midfielder... of course the defenders get to the ball first:RANT:

c) In certain pivotal moments in defense I can't select certain players no matter what I do.

2. Rebounds: The ball gets reflected on the goalkeeper or on the goal-posts and in 9/10 cases the ball somehow gets into the feet of the opponent's strikers.

3. Goalkeeper: He is better now after patch 1.03/1.06, but he is still awful against low shots from far, especially when they are directed into the corners of the goals. It doesn't matter how good or strong the shot was, it can be a slow rolling ball, the goalkeeper will let it in:RANT:.

4. Rails: The players move half the time on rails, this is no secret and I have nothing against it, it leads after all to a more concentrated movements. But there are situations, where you think, that player of yours shouldn't run in that angle or shouldn't pressure in that situation and way, cause it would only lead to a disadvantage. What you want is control of the player's movement, even those on-rail-movements. When selecting a player, I want to be able to change the angle of the railed-run or the speed of it or make him stop it. Stopping can be done using super-cancel, but changing the angle of the rail, the speed of the run, pressure... is not possible.

5. Ball-physics: I want to see the ball being designed to be an independent entity, that follows realistic physics and not being instrumentalised to serve cheating-scripting like it currently is.

6. Pressuring: The CPU is pressuring like crazy with two players on every ball-controlling player. High and concentrated double-pressure is a tactic that is used in real-life-football, but in real life it has a price-tag in the form of reduced stamina and higher fatigue. In the game it has no such punishment and so the CPU can use it for 90 minutes without problems. A realistic realtime twotiered stamina/fatigue-system could fix this, and this feature already exists in the Wii-version, but strangely in the PS3/xbox360/PC-versions it's completely missing.

Verdict:
If these things were fixed and implemented in PES 2013, it could be an awesome game despite the outdated graphics and animation.
Click to expand...

absolutley spot on m8 i aint bothered about the animations too much,
yes i would like them to be better. but, fix the basics first the cpu players dont stand still but your players under Ai control will if the ball is loose just in front of them they will invariabley back away from it WRONG big time.and the player switching is awful still.
recentley played pes6 and we10 on ps2 due to broken ps3 and the player switching was better than this how come?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

johnking said:
absolutley spot on m8 i aint bothered about the animations too much,
yes i would like them to be better. but, fix the basics first the cpu players dont stand still but your players under Ai control will if the ball is loose just in front of them they will invariabley back away from it WRONG big time.and the player switching is awful still.
recentley played pes6 and we10 on ps2 due to broken ps3 and the player switching was better than this how come?
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These basics were better during the PS2-times. Today I had a nice match but then again basic things ruined the experience:

1. The opponent's goalkeeper parries a strong shot straight up into the air, while he lies on the ground. The ball goes straight and high and returns in direction of the lying goalkeeper on the ground. My striker is nearby and I press the shoot-button so that he heads the ball, that is coming down, into the net. What does he do? He approaches the ball and goalkeeper and then completely stops, doing nothing but watching how the ball comes down into the arms of the goalkeeper on the ground.:RANT:

2. The CPU attacks with a string of nice passes, it was a counter-attack. They play the usual routine with a throughball to a wingman and then central strikers going forward waiting for the pass/highball from the wing to score. Standard-procedure... the wingman chooses to make a direct pass from the right to the central striker. There is a defender going toe to toe with that striker in the centre and in the nick of time when the pass got made, he goes away from the central striker:RANT:
As if that were not enough, the ball comes not in front of the striker but behind him, I repeat behind him, because of his forward-movement and because the wingman didn't make his pass well enough. The striker though has no problem with that, he lets the ball roll behind him, he throws himself on the ground and then somehow kicks the ball with his left foot into the goal. This is physically impossible :RANT:

These and other things really boil my blood.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

my humble suggestion to all in the community.
Expect version beta / demo PES 2013, and then talk, PES 2012 is a game that will not improve.[/U] I personally do not criticize more, just wait until July and demo version

regards :)
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

It's all funny to say this, but AI cheating does happen vs human...

Or is it down to using patches on PC that it's hardly noticeable now?

Yesterday I watched a lot of AI vs AI games on Superstar difficulty and it was quite a joy to see what AI can come out with.

Sadly it just does not happen vs human :/.

YouTube - PES2012 - Euro 2012 Final - Spain vs Italy - AI vs AI - HD (720p)

What I am talking about is above. Spain vs Italy. Crazy how realistic can AI play at times :/.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

info0 said:
It's all funny to say this, but AI cheating does happen vs human...

Or is it down to using patches on PC that it's hardly noticeable now?

Yesterday I watched a lot of AI vs AI games on Superstar difficulty and it was quite a joy to see what AI can come out with.

Sadly it just does not happen vs human :/.

YouTube - PES2012 - Euro 2012 Final - Spain vs Italy - AI vs AI - HD (720p)

What I am talking about is above. Spain vs Italy. Crazy how realistic can AI play at times :/.
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Pique own goal, he will be shot if that happens tonight :L
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

gomito#10 said:
which i do every day on a 65 inch panny plasma with a 75 foot hdmi cable running behind my dry-wall to my pc.... works like a charm.. dont think that is a valid issue anymore
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it is for everybody who doesn't have just a single wall between his computer and living room. :P
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

OPM said:
thing is, most games on pc are currently limited to what the consoles can do...i doubt there are many games that REALLY REALLY take advantage of today's hardware.
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Spot on, games have to be developed to run on the lowest common denominator (consoles) and progress that would be capable with today's hardware is getting the shaft.

Easy to say that's where the money's to be made, and it's true, but it still stagnates gaming in these long "console gen cycles".
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Ha lowest common denominator. I have a very good PC but prefer gaming on consoles. I domt think I would game at all if it wasn't for consoles.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

There's absolutely no perspective when talking to people with high end gaming rigs, 65 inch plasmas and 3 mile long HDMI cables. How many people do you think you represent? Sure there are some of you - hell, you might even cobble together 100,000 sales of PES between you - but there's no way PC gaming in the lounge is anything like the standard. For 99% of the gaming community, PC gaming on the sofa is not an option.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

romagnoli

you have returned to play again to beta version?
could give new impressions?

Last night I played several games, pes 2002 (psx) and pes 6,
the feeling of freedom in both games is fantastic
I felt an incredible satisfaction and I had fun

I returned to play pes 2012 on my brother's house, I found GARBAGE
the game feels completely scripted, ball does not feel natural, it's like a magnet rivals have, and ball is constantly attracted, it is difficult to explain.

ball should be a completely natural body

I have long advocated PES 2012, but after playing in the old PES, I must say that Konami's work is complete SHIT, I do not care if the face of C Ronaldo has a similar, please work on physical and animations
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I don't think there's much debate to be had about sales or the possibility of Konami going PC-only. The majority of people have consoles rather than PC's because of cost, so the majority of sales will come from consoles. PES has always been a console game at heart, I hope it continues.

I've been tempted to get a gaming PC, but it would be mainly to enjoy PES a lot more, which doesn't seem anywhere near worth the cost, particularly given that the PC version, while graphically looking better, isn't significantly better to warrant the outlay in cash. At least to me, anyways.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

romagnoli said:
There's absolutely no perspective when talking to people with high end gaming rigs, 65 inch plasmas and 3 mile long HDMI cables. How many people do you think you represent? Sure there are some of you - hell, you might even cobble together 100,000 sales of PES between you - but there's no way PC gaming in the lounge is anything like the standard. For 99% of the gaming community, PC gaming on the sofa is not an option.
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Come on Rom, nobody believes sofa-based PC gaming is the norm but it's not quite as rare as you think. It's something more and more people are catching on to and is not as prohibitive as you say. You can build a gaming PC in an HTPC case and slot it under your TV for instance.

Anyway, I don't think anyone with a serviceable brain is calling for a PC exclusive version of PES. It's a console game at heart and long may that continue. Personally I would like to see some optimisation for the PC version such as high-res texture packs to take advantage of the graphical power of PCs while still running the console engine.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
Come on Rom, nobody believes sofa-based PC gaming is the norm but it's not quite as rare as you think. It's something more and more people are catching on to and is not as prohibitive as you say. You can build a gaming PC in an HTPC case and slot it under your TV for instance.

Anyway, I don't think anyone with a serviceable brain is calling for a PC exclusive version of PES. It's a console game at heart and long may that continue. Personally I would like to see some optimisation for the PC version such as high-res texture packs to take advantage of the graphical power of PCs while still running the console engine.
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See gomito's post. That's what I was replying to, specifically.

As for the quote - again, how many people is that actually going to apply to? It's all very well talking hypothetically, but outside of some small subsection of the geekier side of PC gaming, who is even considering taking that bold option?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

romagnoli said:
See gomito's post. That's what I was replying to, specifically.

As for the quote - again, how many people is that actually going to apply to? It's all very well talking hypothetically, but outside of some small subsection of the geekier side of PC gaming, who is even considering taking that bold option?
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I know you were replying to Gomito and for what it's worth I'm not arguing with you. PC gaming is a niche market as it is, let alone "on-the-sofa" PC gaming.

What we should remember is, not long ago consoles were the preserve of the bedroom/office too and there came a point when people started hooking them up to the main TV in the living room. That is starting to happen with PC's, slowly but surely.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

The idea of the PC being in the living room is one that doesn't really sell - not as PCs are today. Hence why every company is trying so hard to reinvent them, whether as cheap laptops/Facebook terminals, tablets, smartphones or smart TVs. Anything but a PC as we know it. So I think HTPCs, rather than being the future, are a glimpse into a future that will not belong to them.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

romagnoli said:
The idea of the PC being in the living room is one that doesn't really sell - not as PCs are today. Hence why every company is trying so hard to reinvent them, whether as cheap laptops/Facebook terminals, tablets, smartphones or smart TVs. Anything but a PC as we know it. So I think HTPCs, rather than being the future, are a glimpse into a future that will not belong to them.
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rom, I meant if you already had a pc and you were a pc gamer, no excuse not to do what i do...
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

The first demo should come out end of july, but if it is way better than PES 2012, then going back to PES 2012 could prove hard ...
and the demo is too short and limited to go on with it for two months... a major dilemma is coming our way.
 
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