PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Setting up a Konami Cup on Superstar and 5 minute matches leads to some very intense matches. Although no option to pick either National or Club teams! Having both is a weird mix.
 
Guys, I think we have lost a lot of perspective through sentimentality with 2013. Having been a modded/patcher for WE7-WE9 and spending about 8 hours a day on that stuff, I didn't get as much actual playing time in as I wanted but still played about 5-10 games a day on average. Before that, with PES 6 back to WE2002, I played the heck out of those games. I still have all of the titles for the PS2 and all the ones that were available on PC. Going back and playing PES5 and PES6 (or WE2007 in the States) bring back memories and the gameplay is great but I still find the experience more about romanticism and nostalgia than the games being solid throughout. The on-rails feeling still existed occasionally in defense and the cheat bug we all know threw itself up in offline play. 2013 is not a million miles away from PES6 in the way it feels and plays, I think we just all expected more by 8 years later than where we're at now.

I just don't think 2013 is as bad as the massacre most people on here make it out to be. I switched from PES to FIFA mainly from 2010 and flirted between the 2, pretty much abandoning PES 2010, having fun with 2011 then playing more FIFA in 2012 but this year I made the switch back to PES again because scoring wonder-goals in FIFA became the norm and it became a button mash again online. I think Konami can do and should do a better than 2013 but let's not demonize the game like its the worst thing out there. The menus suck giraffe testes in terms of look and feel but that's aesthetics, not actual practicality. Removing season play was dumbass inc. but, I still think if you play PES3, 5&6 and then 2011 and 2013, there's not a million miles in change.
 
PES 2013 would be actually a fine game despite the rails when off the ball, but what it brings it down in the long run is the cheating AI:

On professional level it's bearable but the AI is a bit too dumb for the opponent and my team-players, on top-player the AI is better but the cheating increased as well considerably, with stat-boosts for the CPU and stat-decreases for my team in certain times when the CPU wants to make a goal.

Possession-rates are also off with me having 65% and more, and yet on top-player and superstar it's often me that loses, with the CPU fabricating goals out of thin air.

I'm not against losing against the CPU if it were any way credible, but the stuff that gets produced bends any reality.
 
henrys hand said:
PES 2013 would be actually a fine game despite the rails when off the ball, but what it brings it down in the long run is the cheating AI:

On professional level it's bearable but the AI is a bit too dumb for the opponent and my team-players, on top-player the AI is better but the cheating increased as well considerably, with stat-boosts for the CPU and stat-decreases for my team in certain times when the CPU wants to make a goal.
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EXACTLY why I won't be rsuhing out to buy PES 2014. Until it's confirmed that "Heart" isn't just a fancy catch word for even more AI cheat coding, then I'm staying away, PES is unplayable otherwise.
 
TheWolf said:
I still think if you play PES3, 5&6 and then 2011 and 2013, there's not a million miles in change.
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Wow, I still remember you (and your cat, am I remembering right?) from those days! :WORSHIP:

I totally agree about 2011, I'm liking it and occasionally still playing it. But I couldn't get my head around either PES2013 or FIFA13 after trying the demos.

ATM my lineup of football games consists of PES6 (patched to 2010/11 by myself choosing every single kit, ball and so on), PES2011 and FIFA12 (which I don't play quite anymore: I used to play FIFA12 online only but now you find no-one playing on manual and with 3-star teams).
 
TheWolf said:
Guys, I think we have lost a lot of perspective through sentimentality with 2013. Having been a modded/patcher for WE7-WE9 and spending about 8 hours a day on that stuff, I didn't get as much actual playing time in as I wanted but still played about 5-10 games a day on average. Before that, with PES 6 back to WE2002, I played the heck out of those games. I still have all of the titles for the PS2 and all the ones that were available on PC. Going back and playing PES5 and PES6 (or WE2007 in the States) bring back memories and the gameplay is great but I still find the experience more about romanticism and nostalgia than the games being solid throughout. The on-rails feeling still existed occasionally in defense and the cheat bug we all know threw itself up in offline play. 2013 is not a million miles away from PES6 in the way it feels and plays, I think we just all expected more by 8 years later than where we're at now.
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And i still have DVD from magazine with
World Soccer Winning Eleven 8 International The Wolf 2005 Evolution Mod
RESPECT! :WORSHIP:
 
henrys hand said:
Pes 13 cheating AI:

On professional level it's bearable but the AI is a bit too dumb for the opponent and my team-players, on top-player the AI is better but the cheating increased as well considerably, with stat-boosts for the CPU and stat-decreases for my team in certain times when the CPU wants to make a goal.

Possession-rates are also off with me having 65% and more, and yet on top-player and superstar it's often me that loses, with the CPU fabricating goals out of thin air.

I'm not against losing against the CPU if it were any way credible, but the stuff that gets produced bends any reality.
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I know right? Sometimes I feel that in order to make their players look soo good, they make mine look soo stupid by reducing the stats. There was this time I was playing world cup in BAL, I was using nigeria(that's ma country) and I was playing against uruguay. We were drawing 1-1 then on the 90th minute, they got a freekick and scored it. I thought it was ma fault for giving away the freekick so I restarted the game and guess what, same thing happened FIVE DIFFERENT TIMES. I was like DAFUQ (۳º̩̩́_º̩̩̀)۳ ? I knw nigeria is not soo superb but dey dnt have to be a d!ck about it ryt?
 
Gibah said:
I know right? Sometimes I feel that in order to make their players look soo good, they make mine look soo stupid
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That is standard programming in all games to some degree, but PES is by far the worst. Your CPU-controlled players turning and running in the opposite direction of the CPU ball carrier is typical PES; it's just an extremely incompetent attempt at programming values like player äwareness into the game. No other game is as bad with the possible exception of 2K's games; their NFL series was horrible for that.
 
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considering how good pes 2014 looks and i have not played pes since pes6.

been playing fifa since fifa 08.

i have pes 2013 on the PC and have been trying to get used to it. i have my controls set to manual i.e no passing assist and have manual shooting enabled. only thing i have as assisted is player switching.

i have been using for example Barcelona v Ath Madrid on superstat level. i had posession of 56% and won 3-2, while i was actually 3-1 up at one point.

it required allot of conentration but reminded me of the olden days of having to keep the ball to kill the AI momentum, seemed to work.

question, does that mean i am good or does it mean that the AI is bad and that is what people are complaining about?
 
Anyone still playing this? Fired it up again.

Up for some manual games to fill the next week or so if anyone fancies it, I'm on psn, sir_poc

IMO with the non super teams and on full manual the game is still superb.
 
sir_poc said:
Anyone still playing this? Fired it up again.

Up for some manual games to fill the next week or so if anyone fancies it, I'm on psn, sir_poc

IMO with the non super teams and on full manual the game is still superb.
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Agreed. I'm loving 2v2 with friends and my son, still having a blast.
 
info0 said:
This video shows how shit the keepers in Pro are/were.
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Funny you say that, I have two videos of one point blank incredible save and another top save from the PES 2013.

The animations about 50% of the time where totally naff and shit , thing is the programming was well done. The Colombia goal vs Brazil at 7.23 is my favourite, I crossed it in, looking to try get a half chance with Falcao, both him and the defender, jumped, missed the ball, the keeper like a human being was anticipating the header, it didn't happen and didn't have enough time to adjust himself to stop it from going in.

That goal defines the magic of PES, that goal happens in real life. How many times do you see a Goal usually from a free kick, the the cross is whipped in, the keeper is looking primarily to anticipate a header but it just don't happen and trickles in.

YouTube - Cristiano Ronaldo's First Goal for Manchester United www.footyarena.com

Despite the naff animations, that is good programming and deserves condemnation. I won that game 2-1, defended and countered vs Brazil on a 30 minute game on Top Player, I like those human error and not having a perfect team, with perfect balance 24/7 That is a proper challenge to me.

Never understand why people want Keepers and shots etc.. to be perfect and predictable 24/7. But want realism?

Konami did a great job with this limited engine creating a great game for PES 2013. I harbour no ill feeling about the underpowered engine. People here do not understand money and how much it costs to create a game with a good high powered engine like we see with the Fox Engine.

Judge a game within it's budget which is clear was very modest rather than forgetting not every company has the luxury to throw money around like there is no tomorrow on technology.

PES 2014 shows how Konami have built an under working of a brilliant football game, but where so limited by the tech until now. PES 2014 maybe brilliant but it's only brilliant because Konami had so such a sold and well programmed football game over the last 3 years, with Barely PS3 technology. Look at the button layout and passing and shooting functions, that is not rigid PES 6 on rails, thats from 2013.

Konami deserve criticism for their terrible game modes and bootgate fiasco in 2013, balance issues at the beginning of PES 2012 and well 2008 just all over, along with issues regarding 2009, 2010. I don't accept this moaning about the animations not being on FIFA's or whatever western games level when they did not have the technology available.

Sometimes I wonder if People hated on the gameplay so much expecting it to play like Manchester City, despite it only having the Budget of Everton to compete.

I find it crazy how people slate 2013/2012 etc.. but laud 2014 yet 2014 is only going to be good because of all the hard work here which gave Konami a lot less to do on the new engine apart form sort out the brand new animation tech.
 
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There are three areas where PES 2013 disappoints:

1. Playerswitching on semi-assist-cursor: When making a pass into open space and you want that player from the wings to go for the ball, but he merely ignores it and instead the one player from the mid-attack comes out of his way to go to the right to collect the ball, breaking down the structure of the attack. Happens alot and is disturbing.

2. CPU-AI not being able to have any credible possession-rates. Usually I get 65% and more, while the CPU has 35% or less, even though I have a weak team playing against a strong team. That's just wrong. Maybe it has to do with the fact that most CPU-teams are set up as using countering-setup. That's the other thing, tactical setup for CPU-teams is mostly the same for a lot of teams, which is pretty boring.

3. Scripting/cheating in singleplayer-competition-matches: To create some form of challenge Konami decided to use cheating. It works through stat-boosting for the CPU-team and stat-decreasing for my players in certain situations, or it deflects the ball in such a manner as to often land at the feet of the CPU-players. It drags my players out of the way to make more room for the CPU-attackers, even when I have the cursor on my player, the dragging away happens.
Or upfront in attack, when I'm outplaying the CPU and want to make that last pass to a player of mine who is very well positioned in the middle and has enough space to shoot and score... I make the pass and that player runs away from the ball.
The cheating also plays with form-arrows.

Otherwise it's a pretty good game, except maybe for playerawareness issues.

P.S.: Interestingly yesterday I found out that resaving the single-player-competition-match in a different slot, loosens up some of the cheating and my team feels more free and engaged to play. It's as if the cheating accumulates when saving in the same slot, and when using a different slot, some of it gets reset to a fresh start.
 
Pes 2013 is a brilliant game, not without its flaws, which I'l acknowledge even if I like the game, some of which can be major (such as the defensive lines/through balls issue) but if people are going to massacre the game for its negatives, then then should also acknowledge its positives as well. The same applies to with PES 2009-2012 imo.

I don't like FIFA but I can be balanced enough point out good things they've brought to footie games.

klashman69 said:
I find it crazy how people slate 2013/2012 etc.. but laud 2014 yet 2014 is only going to be good because of all the hard work here which gave Konami a lot less to do on the new engine apart form sort out the brand new animation tech.
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You're right how the hard work has been done this generation even though people refuse to acknowledge it. Pes 2009's contextual dribbling which has continued to be developed (w.h.c.t.b.d.), 2010's refined first touch system (w.h.c.t.b.d.) which nobody seemed to notice apart from Jimmy, me and a few others, 2011's defensive hold up play (w.h.c.t.b.d.), 2012's expanded team mate ai, 2012's 0 bar stat influenced free passing, 2013 being an amalgamation and refinement of all these things, the individuality which has developed every year, the movement physics which have developed every year, the tactical depth which has always been there.

Pes 2014 isn't no happy accident, a rabbit out of the hat magic moment. They've been putting the hard work in on a limited engine modified from the PS2, and now with a new engine they'll be able to expand even more.

People are entitled not to like PES 2009-2013, but to ignore their positive points is as I've said, unbalanced.
 
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shorty alien said:
Pes 2013 is a brilliant game, not without its flaws, which I'l acknowledge even if I like the game, some of which can be major (such as the defensive lines/through balls issue) but if people are going to massacre the game for its negatives, then then should also acknowledge its positives as well. The same applies to with PES 2009-2012 imo.

I don't like FIFA but I can be balanced enough point out good things they've brought to footie games.



You're right how the hard work has been done this generation even though people refuse to acknowledge it. Pes 2009's contextual dribbling which has continued to be developed (w.h.c.t.b.d.), 2010's refined first touch system (w.h.c.t.b.d.) which nobody seemed to notice apart from Jimmy, me and a few others, 2011's defensive hold up play (w.h.c.t.b.d.), 2012's expanded team mate ai, 2012's 0 bar stat influenced free passing, 2013 being an amalgamation and refinement of all these things, the individuality which has developed every year, the movement physics which have developed every year, the tactical depth which has always been there.

Pes 2014 isn't no happy accident, a rabbit out of the hat magic moment. They've been putting the hard work in on a limited engine modified from the PS2, and now with a new engine they'll be able to expand even more.

People are entitled not to like PES 2009-2013, but to ignore their positive points is as I've said, unbalanced.
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Totally agree,and I'm sure we must keep buying a different PES to the majority. :CONFUSE:
 
Nope,i agree.
Pes 2013 is one of the best Pes out there. Obviously less assistance (0 or 1 bars) and offline
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Totally agree,and I'm sure we must keep buying a different PES to the majority. :CONFUSE:
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No, the problem here is that all the good stuff that got implemented between 2009-2013 is overshadowed by some bad stuff that ruin the immersion/satisfaction.

It's like when you eat supper and you see a dead fly in your supper. Most people would refrain from eating the supper, may it be as delicious as it may be because the fly ruined it in their eyes.

All these things you and others mentioned regarding PES 2013 are definitely there and are great, but when playerswitching doesn't work reliably, when most CPU-teams are set up with countering and when the AI is so weak as to only be able to offer challenge through major and blatant cheating, that tend to spoil things.
 
I have played a lot of PES 2013, mostly BAL recently. I was content with Professional Level + 0 passing, but lately it has become to easy, and 2014 is around the corner, so apart from a few quick Superstar games for a good challenge, I'm probably done with it. It's been a good year, though, had many good local multiplayer games, with goals I will never forget.
 
henrys hand said:
No, the problem here is that all the good stuff that got implemented between 2009-2013 is overshadowed by some bad stuff that ruin the immersion/satisfaction.
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Glass half full, glass half empty.

Some people play what is there in a game rather than wish things where there.

Some people wish things where there in a game rather than play what is there.

We have a mentality in video games these days where people seem to look for what is wrong with the game more than play the game and it has been made to do.

I do not have the same issues with you on PES 2013,

- I don't have player switching issues, my method of defence is positioning, so I don't hardly go to tackle the ball carrier I position my whole team where I need them to close off movement. When I concede I immediately look at what I did wrong. its like a chess game defending in pes since 2012. I watch whts happening off the ball rather than whats on it.

- I don't have issues with CPU AI lacking possession, this isn't a gameplay flaw. Yes, in general they can keep the ball more than they do, if you edit their tactics so not every team has Long Ball or Quick Counter or the default possession they will keep the ball, especially better technical teams. In my Copa America tournament, I edited all the CPU teams vs Brazil and Chile in the semi final and final, they dominated me I sat back and had to counter them. The CPU depends on the tactics they have been set to follow.

The final vs Chile was epic, i was 2-0 up, two goals against the run of play, Sanchez got sent off near the end and i had to do an Inter Milan vs Barca like defensive performance.

- I don't have any major concerns about cheating. The issues you talk about paint a picture of you dominating possession, then loosing the ball after an attack, trying to jockey every CPU player on the ball, probably moving people out of position to jockey and tackle the ball carrier and struggling to switch players in this regard when doing so, then whey they get lucky breaks or the odd 'cheesing' you complain about cheating. Cheating happens on this game, but not so much as you speak of, sometimes on superstar every now and again, Video games aren't that advanced yet to stop the odd unfair thing happening, teams will go into a god mode once in a while.

which is why Top Player on 30 minutes is the best to use for realism. Superstar is good for 10-20 minutes though.

You need to make sure every single game you set you team up to beat the CPU's tactics and use every single element of tactics given to you such as 'offside trap' auto and manual if you need it, the different formation changes, making sure your team style is set up in the method you want to defend with.
 
Of all current gen games I preferred 2011 the most, ML was miles better than the current one and I just had more fun with it. PES 2013 was at times a brilliant game for me marred by diabolical scripting in competition modes. For the record, I never played this in multiplayer mode so I don't have that experience to speak of, and I played ML on Superstar and Top Player due to finding Professional a bit too easy.

As I said though, a brilliant game in parts, but nothing ruined it more than playing a ML Champions League campaign on the higher difficulties, particularly during the later stages. The stuff I saw the COM do to try and win was borderline outrageous.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I was just about to write that exact line, but I didn't, as they are some people I just can't be bothered responding to.....
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Its the frustration of people being disappointed with PES in the past which leads people to look for faults rather than just play what is there.

Here is my video playing vs Man City.

YouTube - Arsenal vs Man City PES 2013

Its not me playing very well but some examples of how I defend. its about keeping shape rather than always jockeying the man on the ball. Especially after 8.48 in the video towards the end of the half I do this a lot, There are at least 2 examples.

- Instead of controlling gibbs who was facing yaya toure on the ball, i controlled Wilshere and moved him into the box, Aguero was free and i wanted to make sure if he passed it quickly the passing lane was cut out, Gibbs was doing a good job stopping him.

- At 9.50 I lose the ball, City attack with 3 men down the right, my team is positioned well so the best course of action was to take Theo, run back with him and make the tackle as the extra man.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I was just about to write that exact line, but I didn't, as there are some people I just can't be bothered responding to.....
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And that's the problem, you only like to talk with people that think like you.

Since PES 2008 came out there were people that criticized the game's faults and there were people that just ignored them and accepted them because there was some good behind it.

Guess what, it's because of those criticizing that forced Konami to change things, that combined with lessened sales.

Especially since PES 2010 Konami was on a good track, PES 2011 was a bold step into the right direction opening up the game with 360-degree passing.

But people criticized the attacking-AI not being able to move and offer options, stopping their runs way before the offside-danger, or the awful playerswitching or the catchup-bug.

Because of these critique Konami improved things for PES 2012, offering better playerswitching, an active AI... but again some things appeared that people criticized rightfully, the camping of the CPU-AI that created matches with no midfield-play, and played everyone onside all the time. or the god-modus-dribbling of the AI..

All the while you and Klashman were defending the game and only seeing the beauty behind it (which there was, but marred by a few things that spoiled the beauty), while belittling those criticizing it.

Guess again, because of the critique, things again changed for the better in PES 2013, now offering more midfield play and teams actually playing players offside, the god-modus-dribbling got severely toned down and most important it became possible to stick out a leg when we want it, to get to the ball, and no more of this dreadful stumbling-bug.

But like always despite the clear advancements there are still things to improve, although in many ways better than PES 2011-2012, PES 2013 still has problems with cheating, with teams being all set up very similar on standard, with limited AI... most of these problems being caused by an old engine being brought to its limits and because of laziness (generic tactical setup).

So as to refer back to the half-/full-glass-analogy: Imho it's best to see that the glass is half full and half empty at the same time.

We need to be able to see what good there is right now as well as see and criticize what is still wrong with the game so that things get improved. PES 2014 will use a whole new engine, so it will be a new league so to speak, but even then there will be things worthwhile to be criticized as there will be things worthwhile to be praised.

There are two pitfalls here: Those that completely condemn the PES game because of the faults that prevent them to see the beauty are in one, and then there are those that blindly praise the game year in and out, they are in the other.

@Klashman:

Trust me, I know as well as you how to play the game. I play it now since release nearly every day and know how to defend, how to move players around, how to defend in midfield and how to cover forwardrunners... All that helps and I don't mind if the CPU caught me on the wrong foot and won the ball while I was attacking and succesfully countered.. I even applaud if the CPU achieves to pull something like that off.

But what I'm talking about when mentioning cheating is not something innocent like that. I'm talking about the CPU deliberately dragging away my players out of the way, or my attacking players running away from the ball when the CPU thinks it's not time for me to score.
Or with CPU-players suddenly becoming way faster, stronger than their stats normally allow.

Or with ball-deflections often going to the CPU... or my goalkeeper often parrying into the feet of the attackers, while on the other side the CPU-goalkeeper doesn't do that nearly as often.

This happens more clearly when playing with weak teams against stronger ones in single-player-competition-matches. Not at the beginning, but when some matches in, it comes out more and more.

Interestingly I found out lately that a way to reduce this accumulating cheating-effect is to save the game in a new slot, it seems like that way some things get resetted that way and my teams plays more free and engaging.
 
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